[Closed] Trades persons and the rates they charge.

Plasterer: £100-150 p.d.
Plumber: £200+ p.d.
Sparks: £200-250 p.d.

Id usually expect to see 8 till 4ish.

Stoner: really, plus materials ?
.... and how is that justifiable ? And how much work would you hope to get done (hrs "on the job, grafting)

Do you want a rant or an answer?

I is confused

As Stoner did the later shall I do the former ?

You really don't realise how much things cost do you?
Give us an indication of what you get paid a day, and we can then tell you how much your employer charges you out at... then you can moan about it.

I've recently had a flue installer (2x £200 p.d. labour) and experienced roofers on site (£4,400, 2 guys, 10days). So unless it's menial/unskilled Id start with £2xx. Plasterers a bit less.

Building the house I (4 yrs ago) had a guy on bricklaying and plastering and he worked for £100 a day, but he knew he'd be with us for 6 months continuously.

I've just had a bill land on my desk from the sparkle who has wired up some sockets and a light in my garage --- no messing with lifting boards, feeding wires through tight spaces etc, simple job....

The price seems a little high. £170 per day, 2 guys to do the job took a whole day, plus £240 in materials -I supplied the back boxes and sockets.
Total is £640, seemed a tad high :-/

I have discussed this wi them, and its not gone down "well" with the sparkies.

Did you not agree a price before they started work?

You expect a skilled trade like a plasterer to work for less than £100 per day on a short term contract?
Any monkey can put plaster on a wall but it takes skill and practise to do it well.
Same goes for other trades, maybe a long term contract might get you a lower daily, or you might get someone inexperienced with pricing their own work who will work on a price that makes them cheap but like everything, you get what you pay for.

Labour seems reasonable, if they wouldn't have had time to do a days work elsewhere because of your job, then you pay for a day.
Materials though, ask for a more detailed breakdown, that's where you may be paying too much if you supplied some of it.

the materials seems high what are they claiming they provided?

Stoner: really, plus materials ?
.... and how is that justifiable ? And how much work would you hope to get done (hrs "on the job, grafting)

That's market rate for you welcome to rules supply and demand. A carpenter I spoke to was charging £500 a day as there is so much work on at the moment (that works out at £130,000 pa)

Needless to say I didn't hire him, and he won't be getting any work from when when the building trade crashes in the next 6 months again.

Money does seem mental considering that a lot of work is for *cash*. Some builders are earning as much as doctors

Electrician
£200 -> £250 pd = £52,000 -> £65,000

Plumber
£200 -> £300 pd = £52,000 -> £78,000

Doctors earn from £54,863 according to the NHS and they pay tax 😉

aP

I do that's part of the problem., I created a shopping basket on the first website I could think of to order electrical stuff (screw fix) and the total for all materials used including screws, plugs, cable clips - (box of each to be sure) came to under £120. Apparently my garage has "nearly 200mtr of wire in it" !!!! I measured it at 2.2 mtrs x 4.1 metres. Lol

So I really can't see how it's justifiable - he comes the "you try to be self employed and pay XYZ comments" .

When I go to work I WORK for my 9 hour days, and don't spend 45 mins getting lunch and 30 mins eating it, then answer the phone every 30 mins, walk off site, and pop back to do a bit after my chat- repeat.

No price agreed first, my builder got the sparks in as he uses them often.

and how is that justifiable ?

How is it not justifiable? All trads require a degree of skill and often professional qualifications, which will usually cost an individual money, then there's overheads such as vehicle, tools etc. £250 a day for 7-8 hours work, especially in London, is not a huge amount. We recently had some electrical work done, by a friend of mine, and he charged £250 for the day, which we thought was vety reasonable. Or you can spend the time and money getting qualified, trained up, insured, equipped with tools, vehicle etc, and do it yourself.

£1300 to rewire my kitchen... So seems reasonable to me...

did you agree the price in advance? Or were you paying a day rate? If you agreed in advance you just have to suck it up.

if its day rate you really need to be there next to them as some to ensure they aren't taking the piss. Most builders work hard, but some will take the piss as they can and mobile phones are a nightmare! That's why building sites have mobile phone zones and if you are there too much you get to take the rest of the job off.

For example I paid some plasters day rate and had to hire them as a pair @ £150 each, but they worked from 8am until 7pm as that was a working day them. Whereas someone else I know paid a builder to make an extension and it took two people five weeks (@250 a day) to dig the foundations for a 12 meter by 8 meter extension.....

For the benefit of those who are not self employed, if you have your own business, you don't get paid when:
-You're on holiday
-You're sick
-You're retired
-You need new tools
-You have to leave a job because you find you now need x and you have
to go and buy it.
-You've under estimated a job.
-A customer screws you over.
-you have a couple of hours spare at the end of an afternoon.
-You have no work.
-You screw up.
-You have to re park your vehicle several times a day due to parking rules.
-You have to park illegally to unload and get a ticket.
-You need a workshop and a van.
-You have to pay employees when they are not productive.

I charge £200-240 a day and have never taken more than 20k out of my business; I don't think that compares to a doctor. I do take about 8 weeks holiday a year and do some childcare though.

the recession is over folks and prices for labour on the up big time.. expect to pay 400 in a big city for gas men 300 for sparks

here in cote de rochdale its 200 and 150 i have a labourer who does for 60 a day but that involves no decsion making and a lot of sitting down and long lunch breaks and he likes tea every 15 minutes

For the benefit of those who are not employed, if you are employed you cannot claim for:

- your meals at work
- the clothes you wear to work
- your phone
- your car
- your fuel to get you to work
- "expenses"
Swings and roundabouts innit

PS I wont get paid when i retire or when I dont work and if i screw up repeatedly the boss sacks me

your meals at work

You can if you're staying away from home. Just like a self-employed person, but not when you're not away from home.

the clothes you wear to work

Most tradespeople need specific PPI related clothing. I wouldn't be buying flooring troons, safety boots or cheap cotton t-shirts to wreck if I wasn't doing what I do. I wear normal clothes (for which I don't claim) to work and change into my work kit when I get there.

your car

I have a car, for which I can't claim. My van is purely a work tool and doesn't get used privately. If an employed person uses his or her car for work related travel, I gather most companies pay a per mile expense.

"expenses"

I assume this is some kind of TJesque dig at the self-employed who, frankly, are all on the take claiming for expenses they never spend.

Always best to get one's facts straight JY don't you think?

Junkyard, just because something goes through your business doesn't mean you don't pay for it; you get 20% of its cost off your tax bill only. I certainly don't put my food through nor spend hours of chargeable time arranging other jobs on the phone.
My remarks were more aimed at folk in well paid jobs and final salary pension schemes; there seem to be a few on here judging by the "Nomad or Bronson" thread ("I couldn't decide which 6k bike to get so bought both..").

I've just had a bill land on my desk from the sparkle who has wired up some sockets and a light in my garage --- no messing with lifting boards, feeding wires through tight spaces etc, simple job....

The price seems a little high. £170 per day, 2 guys to do the job took a whole day, plus £240 in materials

Off and on I've been wiring up an old cow shed and some barns, I started two years ago and have only managed one ring circuit completed and that may well burn the place down so yours seem quite reasonable on labour 🙂

Surely nobody seriously expects to get a days work of someone skilled for £100?

For a laugh, I once tried to work out what it would cost to insure myself to a similar level as my wife (a nurse) for time off work due to sickness/accidents.

It is impossible, but to even get near it you'd need to charge around a squillion punds a day to cover the premium, which you still need to pay in the event of a claim 😆

I think £200/day is an absolute minimum, unless work is very slack or as mentioned above, it involves months of steady work.

£200/day is substantially less than £52k/year. Probably nearer to mid 30s which is decent but not fantastic money.

This is a timely thread for me...and apologies if this is a bit of a highjack but IMO it's on a similar topic.

For The Record...I went through the 'usual' 4 year electricians apprenticeship and ended up with a HND in Elec Eng but more or less stopped being trained after I'd finished. It was my own interests that led me to pursue other academic qualifications and I went to Uni after serving my time and ended up with a fist full of qualifications including a Degree and a Masters.

I'm now a self employed Construction / Project Manager working towards ensuring projects (both residential & commercial) are suitably designed / in budget / tendered and then built properly.

So...I've been doing a bit of academic reading about the trade market over in Scandinavia / Germany / Switzerland, specifically regarding the construction methods of Passive Housing (which would appear to be the standard type of build of house over yonder). The current trend in our building regulations continues to push the quality of buildings in the UK higher and higher (a great thing) and I've been struck by a few observations.

Broadly speaking and in comparison to the academic investment our country is currently engaged in the construction trades have largely been left behind. Through no fault of their own many trades don't appear to have many of the necessary skills to build the types of buildings that are coming our way through the betterment of the Building regulations.

Conversely, the trades over yonder go through a far more rigorous training program which continues beyond their apprenticeship. I'm led to believe that they can in many spheres of society enjoy a similar social status as other 'professionals'. Does that mean they get better paid?

I work with lots of trades every day and not surprisingly there are some good ones and some not so good ones. IME the good ones are worth far more and I happily pay them more for their services.

How do we put a value on a job / profession / trade? Is it their professionalism, their qualifications, their patter, our perceptions about how much they know, our perceptions on the complexity of their jobs, how hard they work?

If we trained and invested in our trades more would we be happy to pay them more?

Labour seems fine, material seems ott. I'd love to see what tbey did with the 200m of cable! Ask for your copy of the test results sheet and I'll work out how much cable they used.

Industry is on the up, I've had a few calls recently from companies that can't get sparkies at all never mind good ones.

bedmaker - Member
Surely nobody seriously expects to get a days work of someone skilled for £100?

For a laugh, I once tried to work out what it would cost to insure myself to a similar level as my wife (a nurse) for time off work due to sickness/accidents.

It is impossible, but to even get near it you'd need to charge around a squillion punds a day to cover the premium, which you still need to pay in the event of a claim

I think £200/day is an absolute minimum, unless work is very slack or as mentioned above, it involves months of steady work.

+1

What's the old quote...if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Strange how some complain about the cost of work done by tradesmen and women, and then admit they didnt ask how much it was going to cost and failed to ask for a written estimate before work started.

The same people who never complain about some bloke who kicks a ball around every saturday and gets paid many thousands.For a lot less effort.

most people hate to think somebody is earning more than them for what they think is a piss easy job.
do it yourself if it’s that easy?

I'd be quite happy to pay the going rates if any of the ****ers ever turn up when they say they will!

I'm in the East Midland - for £550.00 we've just had fitted in a conservatory...

Cable from consumer unit to conservatory (20odd feet), 4 double sockets, 2 wall lights, armoured cable to shed (short 8ft run), 2 double sockets and light in shed, and 2 outside lights. Sparky provided all materials apart from wall lights. I lifted all boards.

It' s interesting that people thnk that certain jobs/professions deserve higher remuneration than others.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/graphic-designer-midlands

We know several excellent photographers for around £300 per day.

Must admit I don't know of many good creative photographers that will work for £300 a day...

The going rate in Leeds is around £600 to £800 a day. I also deal with a London-based photographer and he charges £1200 a day - but he is very good and choses who he wants to work with.

What's the reasoning behind this? That certain professins go with certain classes, and therfore the higher the class, the higher the level of 'deserved' remuneration?

Lol, do it yourself or pay someone.

There's a reason I can spanner a car. The money other folks spent at the garage I spent on tools.

Gonna fit a kitchen in my flat soon. I work in IT.

Classic blue collar / white collar shizzle.

We still seem to be stuck in a mantra of If you get your hands dirty, you don't get paid as much because it must be easy work.

+1 rosscopeco although we're going to have to do better than NVQ training, introduce continuing professional development and despatch with the high annual professional body fees that purely give a licence to operate and little or no requirements for professional development 😀

What's the reasoning behind this? That certain professins go with certain classes, and therfore the higher the class, the higher the level of 'deserved' remuneration?

i wouldn’t pick photography as an example as it’s a bit of an odd one, it’s classless as there are all sorts who choose it as a career. (one of the reasons i love working in this industry is the total lack of upbringing/schooling bullcrap)
as for renumeration? well you have John in accounts who owns a dslr who will do it for nothing and the sharp end where if i told you the day rates it would just upset a lot of people yet those rates are generally lower than similar ‘jobs' like commercials directors. thing is its about unique ability and the value you bring to your clients this has a value that i could argue was not always reflected in the day rate.
its also not as easy as it looks 🙄

Setting myself up to be shot down here 🙂

As a white collar worker, it amazes me how hard blue-collar workers work. A mate of mine is a very successful sparky, so I had him come and put a new circuit into my kitchen and a few other bits and pieces. Mates rates were in the region of Stoner's original comment above. And boy did he work. 8am till 4pm non-stop, and I had to force him to take lunch.

In comparison, me, working as a consultant for mega-bucks IT corp, took home three times what he did in the day, and I mostly spent it here.

But then, I suppose it comes down to how you actually [b]earn[/b] the money. He earns it by directly applying a learned skill. I earn it by making sure companies don't lose millions of pounds (and customers) due to ****ed up IT projects.

Electrician
£200 -> £250 pd = £52,000 -> £65,000

Plumber
£200 -> £300 pd = £52,000 -> £78,000

I would calculate £200/day closer to £44k per year- based on 22d/mth and 10 mths. Assuming that you've got a fairly steady contracts. you're not sick, rained off, have to buy specialist tools, pay your transport costs etc. and you have to work fairly hard for it. Sometimes in uncomfortable/dirty conditions. Sometimes for right bawbags.

.

i wouldn’t pick photography as an example as it’s a bit of an odd one, it’s classless as there are all sorts who choose it as a career

It's definitely a middle class profession though.

"But then, I suppose it comes down to how you actually earn the money. He earns it by directly applying a learned skill. I earn it by making sure companies don't lose millions of pounds (and customers) due to ****ed up IT projects.:"

But he has to ensure that the electrics are safe, so no-one gets kiled, and the buildings don't catch fire. So quite a bit of responsibility. Nurses save lives, but bankers do deals which can lead to millions suffering hardship/famine/oppression. Etc. Quite simply, working class people aren't 'worth' as much as those in higher classes.

Building the workshop last year, I hired people at:

Brickie / Plasterer £150 pd
Roofer £120 pd
Chippies £200 pd

Go on, what do people think a professional gardener/landscape contractor should charge? 🙂

I don't really know how someone expects a company to charge someone out on less than £150 per day (+- a little some regional variations) unless its standing with a golf sign sale. When you hire a person to do "X" you are hiring from a company, even if they are lean 1 man company there is still more work to be covered outside of the days work you hire them for. If it was a larger company you would be paying even more for that.

[img] [/img]

STW where profit is a dirty word

As a self employed sparky, I expect £150 a day, though I dont always get that.
£150/day over 47 weeks equals roughly £30k after fixed expenses (trade membership, insurance, van expenses etc.)
I'm in Leicestershire.
If I tell people my daily rate, they think I'm expensive.

Thank you for this thread OP,I'll be putting my prices up as from this week as I'm obviously not charging enough,I knew this anyway but have become soft over the years,yes recession is over( iff there ever was one in the first place).
These tradesman threads are getting as boring as "29-er" and "which tyre" threads,
Pay the man and apreciate his work and remember you wouldn't have got it done without him.

How do we put a value on a job / profession / trade? Is it their professionalism, their qualifications, their patter, our perceptions about how much they know, our perceptions on the complexity of their jobs, how hard they work?

If we trained and invested in our trades more would we be happy to pay them more?

Good post. I think whatever job you have once you're in work qualification become less and less important (I say this with 3 degrees, a couple of C&G and several other short courses to my name) and what counts is your attitude to learning and development. I've met people who have done their apprenticeship / degree / whatever and 10 years down the line don't know much more. They are faster and know a few short cuts but have really developed their knowledge and understanding. Others keep learning and developing. These are the people that are worth it.

I'm self employed and have been for 30 years..it's what chickens says not junkyard..

I've taken my fair share of knocks and cowboy-customers..got stung for 13K one year so unless I know you & you're not in that London you are going to be charged approx £200 a day while the going is good..

You've got to remember when the recession hit the self-employed builder suffered big-time...I changed what I do because the ass fell out of the commercial and private building game..before the recession hit I would of thought long and hard about going to work for £200 a day compared with going to work on a piece rate somewhere..

The beginning of 2013 was a bad start to the year and didn't do a full week til May..that's self employment for you..the good times cover the bad & sick days & holidays etc..

It's definitely a middle class profession though

Just about all the photographers I know had a working class upbringing, it's the money they have earned that has enabled them to savour the bourgeois lifestyle. 8)
It's still lacks the posh public school old boy crap that I see in big businesses and sexism/racism doesn't seem to have a place IME (I include the film/TV/advertising/design world in that statement)

im putting my prices up

Pay the man and apreciate his work and remember you wouldn't have got it done without him.

Amen.

Just about all the photographers I know had a working class upbringing,

It's still a middle class profession. I know midle clss people who have gone on to train in plumbing, brikclaying, capentry etc. And they've become 'working class' becaise ofthe perception that such trdases arn't middle classprofessions.

Hourly or daily rates do not multiply out to an equivilent salary. Running costs and overheads come out of that.

I wonder if many people find these skilled people annoying because of the fact that there are so many little variables that are never mentioned when the deal is done. I moaned when a chap said he knocked off at 4. At least I had asked first but I wanted to know why he didn't work longer hours. I don't see 8 to 4 minus an hour and a half for lunch and breaks as a decent day. He didn't get the job but at least I did ask. There are too may questions to ask. How long is your lunch break etc? Must admit to being a right sod like that but I never complain when the job is done as long as its properly done. That of course means that it has to be better than what I could do.
Answering your phone is your own time as well just like any other bloody job.
That's what your home phone is for.

Last time I hired a trades person they quoted £350 to fit a wood floor.

That's what they charged and the rate seemed low by the time he had finished and the quality of the work very high. He also faffed around doing the shopping for skirting boards etc

Photographers apparently in general don't earn much

A wedding Photographer may charge a grand for the day but the work isn't really over at the end of the day. There is alot of back room work post processing and editing, possibley a pre meeting. Equipment costs are high and it must be hard to achieve 100 days work a year let alone 200

But last thought. Do get a quote

Doctors earn from £54,863 according to the NHS and they pay tax

No one know what GPs earn but it is I believe way more than that. They have a silly system that rewards caring for the middle class well rather than less well in city types

I have a Sparky who has done all our electrical work over the last two years, and worked on/off for my parents for the last 20 years. He's non-VATable (like many trades around here) so I buy all the materials.

I've no actually idea what he charges per hour as most of the jobs/work is hours/half-days etc fitting in around his other commitments, as we discuss the job and he tells me when he can do it and what materials I need.

He does the job with no fuss, gives me a hand-written invoice and I pay him (through the bank). I trust him and don't feel at all ripped off - I have a Carpenter who does the same, except he's VATable.

Just wish I could find a Plumber the same.

Answering your phone is your own time as well just like any other bloody job.
That's what your home phone is for.

😯 how are you supposed to run a business? Big difference between chatting on the phone to your mates and dealing with the next job, I think you will find a lot of self employed people work this way as the people they need to communicate with probably don't like being rang at home in the evenings 🙄

Photographers apparently in general don't earn much

In the mass market, deal with public, anyone with a DSLR can compete world then yes. If you're a pro and get phoned up by the Sunday Times Commissioning desk asking if you have time to do a custom job for the front cover of the WE supplement (as my sister law is) then you're very well paid....

Editorial rates are low, be very surprised if a Sunday supplement cover is more than 1k and that will be all-in and with a 2-3 page inner feature in that too.
In fact the more desirable it is to shoot for the magazine the lower the rates are, the trendy/edgy fashion mags pay £0

Back to the OP, I would say the costs are on the high side but that can happen if you don't get a quote up front.

Saying that, if I don't quote up front (I am a web designer) I tend to charge *less* than I would normally as I don't want people think I am taking advantage and shafting them.

But I had some electrical work done recently:

Change a single to a double wall switch (inc. moving the wiring), make good some temporary fixes I had done (during a bathroom removal), add wiring, switches, controller etc for underfloor heating, extractor fan and dual fuel radiator + all wiring, wire up ready for x6 downlighters (I supplied), chase in wiring ready for a shaver socket and under-counter lighting, come back to move some switches we weren't happy with siting of then finally come back for the second fix.

Cost us £420 and we paid immediately on invoice. I didn't get a quote up front but I have used him before and trust him – and find that by paying *very* promptly, we get fair prices and good service.

This is what I used for the salaries
http://www.parasolgroup.co.uk/calculator/annual-salary-calculator/

According to them:
£200pd = £52K pa

Which is £200 x 5 * 52.

If you take 4 weeks off, that drops it to 48K..... however most/all builders I know work for cash for a good chunk of what they do, so that's tax free which makes the real world take home salary much higher than a PAYE worker.

Doctors salary:
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

I agree some builders work hard, but some really take the piss.

Personally if I find someone good I am happy to the going rate as they are a rare find!

NB: just to qualify my comments my brothers (2) are builders, my dad is a builder, all my cousins (3) are builders and my grand father was a builder and the pisstakers they encounter on a weekly basis drives them nuts.

however most/all builders I know work for cash for a good chunk of what they do, so that's tax free which makes the real world take home salary much higher than a PAYE worker.

NB: just to qualify my comments my brothers (2) are builders, my dad is a builder, all my cousins (3) are builders and my grand father was a builder and the pisstakers they encounter on a weekly basis drives them nuts.

Fraud runs in the family does it?

Fraud runs in the family does it?

You really are a dick aren't you, but to answer your snide remark they moan that *everyone* works for cash and they don't as they are VAT registered as they all have a couple of people working for them .........

reality is there is a *lot* of cash work that never gets declared and if you don't believe that you are deluded.

Answering your phone is your own time as well just like any other bloody job.
That's what your home phone is for.

What a load of rubbish.

If tradesmen didn't answer their phone during the day, they would be out of work the following week.

You clearly have no idea what it's like running a small business.

"Take 48 weeks thats £48k"

Now get in the real world.
Van every 3 years (a 2nd hand one) £1 - 1.5k yr.
Insurance - Van, Personal Liability and any other needed - £1k+ yr.
Van maintenance etc £500/yr
Trade membership - £500+
Tax/Accountant £750 yr
Tool replacement - £250+ yr
Bad debts, typically £1k yr for me.
Fuel, typically £60/wk - £3k yr.

Thats £8k+ to take off straight away.
Add on that you will not be working 5 days a week for 48 weeks. Rain / snow are a killer for construction. Expect 10 - 14 days a year lost to the weather. Another £2000+ lost.

Then when you have time with no work.
I'm busy overall, but am having this afternoon off - did a 2 hour job this morning, start a bigger one tomorrow. This will happen 10 times or more a year, so that is at least another 5 days of 'full' rates lost. These days are good, as I can catch up with invoicing. I've been given £60 cash today. Amazingly (for some!), I'll be doing a receipt for it. So thats another £1k a year lost.
So I'm now down to 37k yr, so long as I'm busy. But then you have a Contract that will 'only' pay £150 a day, but does guarantee work for 4 months. Of course you will take it, as it is guaranteed. So 4 months with a 25% discount, and you are now another 3-4k down.

Now I've got another Training Course. 1 week, £600. Plus 1k lost earnings.
I'm struggling to get £30k now.

What should I be earning?
20+ years experience. Very qualified, can work on any electrical installation. Design and Inspect buildings up to warehouse size.

I think £30k is a minimum. I havent earnt anywhere near that in the last 7 years.
In fact £20k would be nice. Not that I'm moaning, I'm happy being on my own, do what jobs I want to do, not what I'm told to do.
But there is no way I'm going to be rich by charging £200/day. never mind my typical £150/day.

But there is no way I'm going to be rich by charging £200/day. never mind my typical £150/day.

Personally, I don't have a problem with £200 a day and £150 seems very cheap for a sparky; going rate around here is £200->£250. Personally its the £350 to £500 I think is mental.

As for your break down of costs that should all be tax deductible? Which pushes your take home up, as you will be paying less tax (which doesn't detract from the fact that your day rate seems low).

Does no one realise what is charged isn't what the worker earns?

On internal projects I'm charged (pimped really) out at €800 a day. I don't see that.

alanl - you missed when some miserable b****** doesn't pay you. My Dad is/was a sparky and the best advice he ever gave me was 'don't follow me'.

OP - you'll get a quote upfront next time, then at least you'll havbe a rough idea.. I only ask for a proper explanation if it goes +20% over the quote, and even then it can be justifiable - you can't always expect the worker to take the hit IMHO.

Doctors earn from £54,863 according to the NHS and they pay tax

No, they don't........certainly not until they have had a specialty for at least a few years. Doctors in hospitals don't work a 40 hour week and lets not get into the absurd shift patterns either!

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

Doctors in training

Doctors in training earn a basic salary and will be paid a supplement if they work more than 40 hours and/or work outside the hours of 7am-7pm Monday to Friday.

In the most junior hospital trainee post (Foundation Year 1) the basic starting salary is £22,636. This increases in Foundation Year 2 to £28,076. For a doctor in specialist training the basic starting salary is £30,002. If the doctor is contracted to work more than 40 hours and/or to work outside 7am-7pm Monday to Friday, they will receive an additional supplement which will normally be between 20% and 50% of basic salary. This supplement is based on the extra hours worked above a 40 hour standard working week and the intensity of the work.

General practitioners

Many general practitioners (GPs) are self employed and hold contracts, either on their own or as part of a Clinical Commissioning Group (CCG). The profit of GPs varies according to the services they provide for their patients and the way they choose to provide these services.

Salaried GPs who are part of a CCG earn between £54,863 to £82,789 dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience.

Does no one realise what is charged isn't what the worker earns?

only those people who work for medium large businesses who really have no idea what day to day business costs are. if they knew what the rates on the building or the costs of taking refuge away or insurance were they would probably be shocked.

Ok then, ftfy

Doctors can earn from £54,863 [s]according to the NHS and they pay tax[/s] depending on the decisions they have made, supplementary pay they may receive, exams they may have sat and ultimately, once they have progressed far enough in their career. They can also earn a lot less than that.

Something that I think needs emphasising is that "Tax deductable" does not mean "free".
i.e.

Turnover = £100
Taxable profit = £100
Tax @ 24% = £24
Take home = £76

a business with deductible expenses:
Turnover = £100
Tax deductible expenses = £20
Taxable profit = £80
Tax @ 24% = £19
Take home = £61

of the £20 of expenses, the tax man has "paid" for £5 and I've paid £15.

"Tax deductable" does not mean "free".

A massive +1 to this. A few folk seem to reckon that things like vans, computers, phones, tools etc all come for free.

You really are a dick aren't you, but to answer your snide remark they moan that *everyone* works for cash and they don't as they are VAT registered as they all have a couple of people working for them .........

reality is there is a *lot* of cash work that never gets declared and if you don't believe that you are deluded.

And you sir are even more deluded if you believe your family don't do cash deals just because they're VAT registered.

A few folk seem to reckon that things like vans, computers, phones, tools etc all come for free.

It's always seemed incredible to me how many seemingly intelligent and knowledgeable people don't understand this.

I've had customers comment many times on things like my good quality tools and nice van, and saying that they wish they could get stuff like that for free.

No wonder employed people think self employment is one big freebie, tax free party 🙄

Some Gps get over £200,000

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10334773/Thousands-of-GPs-paid-more-than-the-Prime-Minister.html

Gps on about £100,000

http://www.****/news/article-2510905/British-GPs-best-paid-West--nurses-average.html

Now I'm not complaining about doctors having a good salary.

More of a problem is that Gps get less in areas of deprivation

Surprised that no trades person has mentioned the cost of quoting for work. For the last 3 jobs we paid out on the person pitched and gave advice for an hour and then sent a quote. They didn't charge for this. Try that with you solicitor. No don't get me started

"Tax deductable" does not mean "free".

Workers cannot deduct this from anything and just have to buy it after tax.

As i said swings and roundabouts. IMHO this is a "perk" of self employment.

Do you pay for your desk at work? Your stationery? Your computer? The premises? Someone to fix stuff when it breaks? No. Your employer does and claims for it, then pays you the rest so you can exist in blissful ignorance of how expensive it is to run a business for yourself. Oh and he also works out your tax for you. 😀

And allows you access to a better mortgage rate.

Indeed DD swings and roundabouts.

Both have their advantages and their disadvantages.

Some people seem rather bitter about the fact that some of us are self employed.

I too, get snide remarks, disguised as jokes, about the fact that I don't pay tax.
True,I'll put as much through the books as I can which means the occasional meal out, clothing, bike parts (I do however work as a bike guide and commute by bike so justified), tools, my computer all count towards my expenses.

I can't put my van through the books thanks to the crazy German tax system.I can't get anything back on the cost of our flat as my office isn't a closed room. I can't put the monthly internet through the books as I'm not the only one who has access to it.

Sometimes I think I'd be financially better off being an employee. Then I remember that it'd mean getting up and going to work every day of the week....