[Closed] Graphic designer - Midlands

You could just hire me 😉

Pie charts?

If anyone is interested, I put on this website
http://itsnicethatjobsboard.com/jobs/view/5649

"Love carpet"

*S*****

The funnier thing is, they used to call it carpet.it, said too quickly....

At that salary you'll be lucky to attract a designer with the skill set and experience you require. Especially as you're after a proficient photographer too. Which, let's not forget, is another career and talent in itself.

As a comparison, I've been doing this for 16 odd years and seen juniors on salaries not very far from that mark.

At that salary you'll be lucky to attract a designer with the skill set and experience you require.

Candidates will be given a brief to execute, should they be successful in the first interview and asked to pitch it to Fundamental.

Edit: It's a troll surely?

Good Excel skills

And who would be managing this person? Do they have any skills in running a creative design studio? Have they any experience in print design and artwork or experience in liaising with printers?

Yes, looking for a junior-ish role, that's looking to step up. The salary isn't massive, but it is a start-up and so that salary can grow quite quickly.

I'm not sure what is absurd about seeing if a designer can communicate their ideas, my concern is that CV's can look great, but the role will require someone who can communicate their ideas well.

Do you want a designer or a photographer? Will you be supplying photographic equipment?

The 2 are not interchangeable.

3 years experience. 20k.
Good luck with that.

But your job as an employer is to be able to work out who is able to do the job through interview and seeing their previous work, not by having them perform meaningless tasks and then be expected to present to you.

Especially not as a junior getting paid little more than a Graduate salary.

At that salary, you should expect to be paying someone with promise that needs nurturing and tutoring.

Or someone that has a bit of experience but is actually just a little bit crap.

Yes, experience managing in a creative studio and yes on print. I'm kind of looking for help on WHERE to recruit at the moment.

PrinceJohn I disagree. I'm not looking for an out-an-out photographer, but someone who is able to shoot well and can be developed during the start-up stage. Much of the photography within our group is poor, but doesn't require someone charging £1500-2000 per day, having someone with a good eye could be very beneficial.

but doesn't require someone charging £1500-2000 per day

The candidate must be able to articulate their ideas clearly[s],[/s] [i][b]AND[/b][/i] have experience in bringing brand messages through in to their designs.

The candidate must have at least 3 years[b]'[/b] design experience

[i]– Be passionate about detail
[/i]

😉

Candidates will be given a brief to execute, should they be successful in the first interview and asked to pitch it to Fundamental. [i]If the brief is executed successfully, you will not get the job, and your ideas will be appropriated and taken further by Doris the tea lady....who is also the New Meedja Officer[/i]

😛

Thanks Johndoh. Some of the companies in the group have paid large amounts for shooting schemes. This is one of the reasons we are trying to pull these sort of costs in house.

I was just looking for some tips on where would be good to post a job, not really an assessment of the offer.

IHN - well spotted!

So you will spend £2,000 PER DAY for a photoshoot but you expect a full time employee to work for £20,000? That's two weeks worth of photographers time.

I don't think you have though this through have you? If you paid, say, £40,000 you would get someone that is capable of what you are asking and they would still only cost the same as four weeks of a photographers' time...

The candidate must be able to articulate their ideas clearly, AND have experience in bringing brand messages through in to their designs.

The candidate must be able to articulate their ideas clearly, AND have experience in bringing brand messages through [s]in to[/s] [b]into[/b] their designs.

As I said, some of the companies in the group.... not me. And £200 per day only makes £2000 over 2 weeks, just saying.

That person could well be earning a lot more than £20,000 in a short period, but it's a start-up with a limited budget that needs to start paying for itself. As it does, so things evolve.

And £200 per day only makes £2000 over 2 weeks, just saying.

Much of the photography within our group is poor, but doesn't require someone charging £1500-2000 per day

but it's a start-up with a limited budget that needs to start paying for itself.

I am sorry, but it really is quite laughable.

*just realised who johndoh is* 8)
Waves @ mf

Not the first time I have been accused of that...

Thanks for pointing out my typo's, I was just doing the same. Johndoh, I've not explained the group structure, the investment deal, the history, the experience etc and I am not looking for someone to finance my project as you put it. This is merely starting out on the road to recruiting a graphic designer and I wondered if anyone knew of any good places to post the job. But thanks for all your help.

My pleasure, you might have more luck if you follow it 😉

typo's

For the salary your offering and the fact that you're a startup I think you might be better off trying to cherry pick a really good graduate than rely on finding someone with 2-4 years experience.

If I was talented and looking for a 2nd step of my career I'd be looking to join an established agency with big name clients and budgets to match rather than a startup with no clear career development path.

And drop the excel thing. That is just weird.

*just realised who johndoh is*

Is it Harry Zimm
"I'm the one telling you the way it is, okay, asshole? That's who I am." 😀

And drop the excel thing. That is just weird.

Nah, keep it, for 20k and that wish list, the OP deserves an excel wizard.

 

Cheers muppetWrangler, fair advice.

I'm in the design industry (graduated from Coventry, funnily nuff) - my first job starting salary was 20k.

I now have 3 years experience and a great commercial portfolio - I wouldn't touch that job application for anything under £35k.

At 20 you're only going to get graduates

For the salary your offering and the fact that you're a startup I think you might be better off trying to cherry pick a really good graduate than rely on finding someone with 2-4 years experience.

+1

And you say you are experienced in running a studio? If you have paid that as a daily rate in the past you have been shafted.

Or used a decent photographer... 🙄

a decent and ambitious creative

They are all in London on £35k plus

Shizzletrack, I'm a commercial photographer and work all over the UK. I'm always looking to develop new relationships and I charge a hell of a lot less than the numbers above! Would be more than happy to send you info and sample images to show the quality of work on offer.

Shizzletrack, I'm a commercial photographer and work all over the UK. I'm always looking to develop new relationships and I charge a hell of a lot less than the numbers above! Would be more than happy to send you info and sample images to show the quality of work on offer.

Edit. I see you are trying to cut costs by bringing it in house but it might be just as efficient building a relationship with a supplier dedicated to your those needs. Hire a designer handy with a camera and you will get just that. If your photography requires any kind of lighting for instance, I would always say go with someone with experience. I guess at the end of the day, it depends on how much you sell from your imagery. If it's a lot then you should invest there.

Just thinking back - about 20 years ago I had a job that pretty much fitted your job description (without the requirement to be a photographer).

I earned £16k a year back then - and that's a job based in the north of England, not London.

I don't want to be critical as you're offering someone a job and that's great but as has been mentioned your experience and long list of skills requirement are at odds with the junior salary. It's all well and good saying that there's potential for more but it's not conveyed in the advert and it just looks like you're taking the p.

I'm sure you'll get someone and at least you don't require a degree.

Good luck with it, it sounds like it could be quite a fun job.

So what you really meant was not 'where do I advertise' but 'where can I advertise for free to find a gullible senior level designer who's into biking but will work for peanuts and take on board all of the risks associated with a startup company'? Singletrack?

At your level of salary you'll get an average artworker at best. Any good designer worth their salt or looking to advance their careers would be looking to work at a big agency, working with international brands and blue chip clients. As a new agency, working in not the most glamourous or creative of industries (carpet) you're probably going to have to pay far more than the going rate to attract the right candidate.

Yet you seem defensive and reluctant to listen to the good advise given on here! What does that say about you as a potential manager?

I've seen time and time again people who've set up agencies but skimp on salaries. You pay peanuts, the saying goes . . The fact that they have not employed good people from day one is still negatively impacting their business today as these 'average' designers are now senior designers within the company, yet still need micro management and basic creative direction from the founders on a daily basis.

If I were you I would listen to the 'FREE' advise on here and be grateful for it - it's worth it's weight in gold. If you can't afford to pay more then I would either:

- Take on a part time senior (maybe someone with kids who needs shorter hours).

- Employ a graduate - but the guidance they will need will impact a lot on your time and there will be lots of trial and error along the way. As a new business founder could your time be better spent?

- Recruit for senior freelancers to work when required on a daily rate.

- Split out the photography and employ a good freelancer when required. We know several excellent photographers for around £300 per day.

- Offer the new employee equity in the agency for the risk they'd be taking (real equity, not share options). But this is risky for you too.

Don't promise an increase in salary when the agency gets bigger - most people have heard these sort of promises and hot air before and are generally very skeptical about this sort of promise (unless you write the guaranteed increases into their employment contract, with dates and amounts agreed from day one).

Design Week would be a good way to advertise - but you need to bear in mind that it's 'GOOD' and as a result its not 'FREE'. Good luck.

All good advice above. ^

We have missed one option, though - the creatives of STW have shown time and time again that, when asked to work for free, can produce epic results from a simple creative brief. There must be at least 3 years experience going back.

Give us a go - post all your briefs to this thread and we'll send through the results. Honest.

Rachel

- Split out the photography and employ a good freelancer when required. We know several excellent photographers for around £300 per day

😯 blimey things really are different in the sticks, that's what a digital operator or an assistant at the top of their game is on (advertising rate but even below that it's still £200-£250) I guess the price war of the wedding snapper has finally hit jobbing commercial work.

Must admit I don't know of many good creative photographers that will work for £300 a day apart from the sort that see their pictures regularly appearing in the local press after shoots at awards dinners etc.

The going rate in Leeds is around £600 to £800 a day. I also deal with a London-based photographer and he charges £1200 a day - but he is very good and choses who he wants to work with.

Must admit I don't know of many good creative photographers that will work for £300 a day

We use 2 on a regular basis, and another who's slightly more. We're aware of people who charge more but to be honest their work wasn't any better. Best keep our contacts to ourselves then 😀

can’t you post their websites? if they are any good i’ll sub some work out and take 60% 😆

can’t you post their websites?

errrrrr . . . NO!

[i]I was just looking for some tips on where would be good to post a job, not really an assessment of the offer.[/i]

That ain't what the thread title says though is it?

Sounds like a fun job to me (for a school leaver).

We use 2 on a regular basis, and another who's slightly more. We're aware of people who charge more but to be honest their work wasn't any better. Best keep our contacts to ourselves then

Just my experience.

Must admit I don't know of many good creative photographers that will work

The best creative photographers i know don't work as photographers. It seems that one way to realy kill any creativity ins to work as a 'professional'. You're better off just hiring some graduate who's enthusiastic and still keen to rey oout new ideas, than some seasoned 'pro' who thinks they know it all. I dn't know why any small cmpany would want to hire a 'professional' thse days, when so many 'hobyists' can create just as good results for afraction of the cost. Photography, and 'graphic design are tow of the most overhyped and expensive services out there. Might have been justified when photography was actually quite technically challenging, and before Adobe software, but advertise in a local paper and chances are you'll find some student who's willing to do it for next to nothing.

you can pick up a dslr for £300. surely the answer is obvious?

Not sure if Stoffel is being serious or not...

Might have been justified when photography was actually quite technically challenging, and before Adobe software

I've got a hammer and chisel - it doesn't make me a joiner though.

Might have been justified when photography was actually quite technically challenging

Top tier professional photography is even more so incredibly technically challenging - even with all the information available on Google.

Just because shits digital now doesn't mean there's a button to make any photo professional quality.

Photography, and 'graphic design are tow of the most overhyped and expensive services out there.

You want to shake your fist towards lawyers and solicitors with that particular accusation.

Might have been justified when photography was actually quite technically challenging

the technical details/techniques are a given attribute, its the other qualities that cost. you can’t learn that from an online video or out of a book. no to mention delivery of client expectations or exceeding them and knowing how that final image is going to be produced (equipment,talent.location, post production, model making,set-building etc etc) if it was that easy and the financial rewards so high why isn’t everyone shooting ad campaigns or for vogue?

I would also argue that it’s actually more technically challenging now than when it was just sheets of film and retouching was done on a £200,000 cross field mamba or barco creator system pre photoshop.

filming/video is technically easy, you expose properly and point the camera at what you want to film. 🙄

joe public wouldn’t believe how many people are involved in a 30 second commercial and how long it takes to produce or the budgets involved. they would probably notice if it was made by John in accounts with his dslr though.

Photography, and 'graphic design are tow of the most overhyped and expensive services out there

Pah, I wish. It's a good pay-scale in-keeping with skill and experience IMO but certainly not 'expensive'. My wife earns more, part-time, in the Civil Service. But let's leave that one firmly closed right here, okay.

Most designers and photographers charge around the same per hour as your local VW main dealer charges for an apprentice to change your oil and plugs.

This is more than true and is why I drive a Polo 😆

I'm a senior designer. I've just spent the last 2 days on the road, art directing photoshoots.

I took a snapper who I know and trust (because he's bloody brilliant) and an entire car full of lighting rigs, massive lenses, tripods and expensive Nikon kit that probably cost the same as a house. I'm not paying him the bonkers fees you mentioned before, but he's not cheap. Because he's bloody good! But then so am I 😉

We are producing marketing material for a large multinational company. And there are standards expected that we have to deliver. You're not going to get that with the set up you're advertising, I 'm afraid. You 'll get what you pay for

If you're serious about you're business then you have to realise that your competition will be doing what I've been doing for the last couple of days. And it will look polished and professional. If you get an inexperienced designer to take a few snaps, then yours, when placed next to it, won't.

That's the reality of the situation

Agreed Binners. Well said.

Unfortunately this isn't what the OP wants to hear and it's why his plan is destined to fail unfortunately.

Phwoar

[img] [/img]

Unfortunately this isn't what the OP wants to hear

which might also explain why we've not heard from him in a while 😉

At least he didn't try the old "Get Involved!" (work for free) trick... unpaid intern... £2.50 per hour 'apprentice' wage... topped up with Working Tax Credits etc etc...

True

To the OP...

When you do find someone make sure they know what 'bleed' is, as a lot of designers haven't the faintest idea!

he’s probably relaxing in his aeron chair looking at the big shelf of yellow pencils and other awards and waiting for an intern to get him a soy latte as he casually flicks through an Audi brochure looking at sport pack options

Funnily enough this is on the front page of Reddit atm:

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/291pns/****_you_****_you_and_go_****_yourself/ ]Reddit link[/url]

I'm a designer, I don't touch excel, the admins do that. I don't touch cameras, the freelance photographers do that. The 2 juniors in our studio are both recent graduates and on similar salaries to what you are offering and have excellent exposure across design heavy brands, the opportunity to develop new computer skills and have mentoring from an experienced team. I think you are unreal in your expectations from your advert as there is little to attract anyone to the company other than it's a job.

Didn't realise people were still discussing this, but taking on board the re-occurring comments. Excel, yeah, wasn't thinking that one through, point taken. It may well be that the initial salary has to be much more to attract a mid-senior designer. I feel a junior designer could help improve many of the companies in the group quite quickly and even some good amateur photography skills could plug a hole. That would be the first job, but ultimately as things grow, I would need to increase the external client base. I was reluctant to specify the 'level' of designer as I know if the right person came along that required more money, my Chairman is more likely to dig deeper to make it happen.

I'll bring up some of the comments on here in my next meeting. rebel2 and binner some valid points there. Johndoh, the sun is shining outside, cheer up fella! You know what, it could fail, but I'm up for the challenge, I've taken 2 of the business' within our group from turning a few hundred thousand, to several million with good net returns. My design experience isn't vast, but I'm passionate about it and I'm learning quickly.

Seavers, happy to look at your portfolio / day rates, we have a fleet of newly branded roadtrains that need shooting in the North East, happy to brief you in.

Thanks everyone else for advice, some good feedback.

Johndoh, the sun is shining outside, cheer up fella!

Fair do's Johndoh, thanks for the apology, I'm sure I need to spin my legs and forget about the impossible tasks I'm set, you sometimes can't help but get defensive when the pressure is on.

17:16..... anyone else going riding in approximately 14 minutes?