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My pickup has finally gone to the 4x4 place in the sky ( or Africa ) so I'm looking for/ toying with the idea of getting an x-large van, ie. Sprinter, VW, Iveco, that I can either convert into a ' race van ' but still be able to use for work. Parameters for the work side are long lengths of timber up to 4.2m that I could slide through a door/flap in the garage area and 2.4 x 1.2 sheets ( can I stand these upright at the rear )? The garage/ storage area to be able to get 2 or 3 bikes in, or carpentry hand tools, large sliding mitre saw etc, or cement mixer, wheel-barrow etc. Above the rear storage area a double bed inside, seating, cooking etc. I'm also going to need to put a towing hitch on the rear. Is opinion decided on whether Mercedes is better than VW is better than Iveco...?any engine sizes, models to avoid? I'm not going to be buying new looking to spend around £5K and don't mind a project but not a mechanical nightmare or a pile of rust.
Merc Sprinter and VW crafter are the same van, and both prone to a spot of tinworm.
Worth looking at the Renault Master/Vauxhall Movano, gearboxes can be fragile but recon ones are available for non eye-watering ammounts. My mate changed his last year, paid c£4k for a 2008 125bhp 6 speed with 100k on the clock.
Some recent van threads & STW van review, may not all be totally relevant but might help..
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/grinder-special-dieselheads/ ]STW's thoughts[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/whats-better-about-vw-transporters-than-other-vans ]T5/Van thread[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/mercedes-vito-anything-to-look-out-for ]Older Mercedes Vans[/url]
Crafters are fetching a lot of money. How are the older LT's ie the 35 or 46?
If I go for a van with a higher GVW can I tow more?
Dont forget you will need a tacho if towing with a 3.5 tonne van for work and going more than 33 miles from base
@Edric64...does that mean I need to buy a van with a tacho just in case I need to tow, or only if I need to tow a trailer further than 33 miles?
Don't get the Iveco with the Agile gearbox - horrible thing to use
Agreed the agile box is white. The manual dailys ain't bad though.
So don't get a crafter - They're made by mercedes but with a vw engine grafted on to the merc control system. It causes problems and makes diagnosis of faults and getting some parts more difficult.
Sprinters are ok, suffer from rust as all merc vans do, metallics and non white ones are less prone to this. Low geared despite the 6 speed box (iveco 5 speed top is a higher gear), engines do have problems but are good for high mileage.
Iveco are cheaper, not quite as nice to drive, longer and parts/work on them seems to be cheaper.
Lt35 are good vans if you can find a decent one. A friend is replacing the crafter he's just got with one as he preferred his old van.
You get a lot of Iveco for your money, you'll get a 2006> facelift easily for that cash.
I think the MWB is 3.6 meters to the bulkhead so you might manage 4.2 if you remove the bulkhead or chop a hole at floor level into the cab for the wood.
2.8 to 3.5t towing capacity depending on model, 2.3l engine is pretty bulletproof and seems faster than similar bhp Transits. 3.0 engine is lovely and powerful but rarer and apparently an older design than the 2.3.
Long legged gearbox for relaxed cruising, nice drive on good roads but get a little crashy on poor roads.
Edit: Forgot to plug my forum 😉 http://ivecoforums.com/index/
Oh and I forgot to say you can retrofit cruise to iveco's for the cost of the new wiper stalk - about £80.
Found thanks to a thread on the forum spooky mentions (and is all over) above.
Ducato/Boxer/Relay? Wide enough for a 6ft bed crossways (just about), long enough (L3 or L4) for 4.2m lengths of timber (as long as you don't mind the ends being between the front seats), 8x4 sheets will go on the floor between the wheelarches.
Thread plug 🙂 http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/family-friendly-bike-carrying-camper-build
2.4 x 1.2 sheets ( can I stand these upright at the rear )
No - on their long edge only, you wouldn't be able to stand one on its short edge.
The xlwb sprinters/crafters actually come in two lengths one with a 4.2m load space and one with 4.7m space. These longer ones are also a bit taller, but not 8ft tall.
The sprinters and crafters are the same shell but not the same engines. Fewer of the crafters around as mentioned above problematic when the engines go wrong. By comparison the Iveco is very truck-like (its a separate body on a chassis rather than monococ- they're an old design compared to the sprinter to, with only cosmetic changes being made over the last 25 years or so. I'd have a hunch that the sprinter would be safer in the event of a crash on that basis.
Crafters are fetching a lot of money. How are the older LT's ie the 35 or 46?
If I go for a van with a higher GVW can I tow more?
For work purposes unless you have an operators license then you can only tow within a total train weight of 3.5t. So whatever the van is capable of towing you're limited by that 3.5t threshold. My Sprinter is 2.6t can safely tow 2t but to fit within operator rules can only tow 0.9t to give a train weight of 3.5t. Those weights are the plated weight of both van and trailer - you can't tow and empty trailer with an empty van if the plated weights add up to more than 3.5t. So conversely you need a lower rated van to be able to tow more - I could tow more weight, legally speaking, with my astra van than I can with my Sprinter.
A LT 35 could therefore tow zero tons and a LT46 could tow minus 1.1 tons 🙂
The only way round that 3.5 train weigh limit is if you're towing with a 'dual purpose vehicle' - a crew cab pickup
Thought if you were over 3.5 tonnes and working you just needed a tacho ?
@Mac c....that doesn't sound right ( not saying you're wrong )...I thought you could tow 75% of the tow vehicle weight. Are caravans different then?
From the test taken on Edric 64s' link..
If goods carried are in relation to the drivers work and driving is not his/her main activity
You should not need to fit a tachograph. If this changes you should fit a digital tachograph.
This exemption only applies to vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7,500 kgs that are used for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the drivers use in the course of his/her work and the vehicles are used only within a 50km radius of the base of the undertaking and on condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute the drivers main activity.
Tybian, 75% is just an advisory figure, and I think its higher than that.
I fit into your example, 3.5t van use as a mobile workshop, towing cable drum trailers. My work activity is cabling among other things, so tacho not required. Also operate within a certain limit of base.
I do however have to fill out a W20 book if I tow within a calendar week. Which means I have to fill it out regardless as I don't know if I will need to tow anything.
My use will be mainly carrying tools with every now and then I might have a garden clearance where I need to fill up big-bags of garden waste, or pick up aggregate for a job. Im not using a trailer every week.
As far as ivecos go then the 3.0L manual is the one to have and they are almost half the price of a same age Sprinter or Crafter.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the 3.0, mine is a 2.3 '12' which is 120bhp and tows a 3 ton trailer, when I buy its replacement I'll probably go for a 2.3 '14' which is 140bhp as the 3.0's are fairly rare, and almost all have had a hard life towing plant trailers for utility companies. Have to admit it would be nice having 180bhp on tap though 🙂
@Mac c....that doesn't sound right ( not saying you're wrong )...I thought you could tow 75% of the tow vehicle weight. Are caravans different then?
Its not caravans being different to trailers, its vans being different to cars
That said.... I'm out of date, the law was [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11293/small-trailer-leaflet.pdf ]updated in 2011[/url]
Used to have a 3.0 Daily XLWB in a previous job and it shifted. Even when rammed full and towing the 18' trailer. 5.0t, but debadged it looked just like a 3.5t so drew less attention.
Towing
As soon as you go over 3.5t gvw you need a tacho on the prime vehicle. IE 5t vehicle used commercially needs tacho and operators licence
5t vehicle used privately does not need operators licence and does not need tacho to be used.
The gumpf above about towing more with a Astra van than a sprinter if towing for work purposes, we'll all I can suggest is the guy takes a trip and has a chat at his local vosa office.
ANY VEHICLE WITH A POTENTIAL TRAIN WEIGHT OF OVER 3.5t 'should' have a tacho fitted. IE technically a T5 with a tow are fitted 'should have a tacho fitted. In reality they hardly ever do. So a 3.5t sprinter with a tow at fitted 'should' have a tacho fitted because it can potentially run over 3.5t as soon as something is put on the tow bar.. It categorically DOES NOT HAVE TO have an operators licence. You don't even need to use the tacho unless something is hitched to the tow bar.. As long as when you do tow, you use the tacho everything is fine.
Tacho requirements have quite a few exceptions.
Any goods vehicle over 3.5t GVW requires a tacho (and speed limiter), however whether it has to be used has lots of exceptions.
The only time you need a Tacho fitted to a vehicle with a combination weight exceeding 3.5t, is if you're not going to be exempt from using a tacho.
It's been a while since I seen the list, but from memory the main exceptions are utilities vehicles operating within IIRC 30 miles of a fixed base, amenities (aka council) vehicles, and emergency service vehicles.
However they still need to comply with driver hours legislation, which is why Spooky has to keep a log book.
As for vans, LTs/Crafters are Sprinters with the exception of engines and dashboards. VW engines aren't as good as the Merc engines, and I think the VW dashboards are horrendous.
Iveco's are probably the most 'agricultural' of vans, as they lack refinement compared with others.
Peugoet/Citreon/Fiat/Renault/Vauxhall vans are the usual cheap and cheerful. They're fine if not abused, but give plenty problems if they are.
Transits are handle abuse reasonably well, but are typical Ford in needing continual additional work at services, and newer ones are less reliable.
In terms of what to buy, it all depends on what mileage you plan on doing, and how long you'd like to keep it.
High mileage, and by high I mean 300k+, Sprinters can't be beaten. We maintain plenty that have past the 500k mark and still going strong.
Long life, southern Europeans love their galvanising, but don't like to supply parts for older vehicles, but you can still buy pretty much any part for anything German you might actually want to keep running.
However, anything you buy is going to be a gamble. Van service history can quite often be questionable, especially bigger vans, as they are more expensive to maintain and more likely to be run by people who don't like to spend money. Those who do maintain them, are those who're more likely to keep them for longer, so whatever you get, make sure you get somebody to give it a good check over.
I thouhht the tacho is only to be used by persons who use their vehicles as their main income ie. Parcel delivery, minibus/ coach/ lorry driver etc. As im only using the van ( and occasionally the van with a trailer ) to get to my place of work, wherever that might be, im not actually using the vehicle for profit or gains..
I can feel a call to VOSA coming on..
Tymbian, personal use is excluded from Tacho use.
The main thing is you'll not be using the vehicle for hire or reward.