[Closed] Sick to death of cycling British roads. Is there anything to be done?

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One of the biggest road safety improvements would be that all company owned or used vehicles had a contact address or phioone number on the rear and passenger side, Buses and coaches have to display owners details by law behind the front loading door.

Also due to the huge number of fraudulent claims we all subsidise against bus and coach companies nearly all buses and coaches are fited with multi point recording equipment, along with data loggers and telematics to record and report to base excesive braking and acceleration.

Ashas been pointed out wheree you live and the time of day you pedal at has a big difference. I think i am quite lucky living in suffolk. The volume of traffic means drivers are quitw ploite. I ride early morning on country lanes where is little traffic and the cars i do find pass very conciderately. I also ride after rush hour traffic and the roads are again quiet even the main roads.

That enough about me though. There are too many cars on the road. This leads to poorer driving standards. I notice it when i drive anywhere busy, hell my driving standards dip when i get cought in traffic. Which is why i dont like driving much anymore. The onlt solution is road pricing and make driving during the working day expensive In towns, cities and the main routes. That will force car sharing and some to leave there cars at home. It wont happen though And traffic volume is only going to get worse if left unchecked.

If you are on facebook, have a look at the 'UK Idiot drivers exposed' thread entitled 'you bitch' 400+ replies, mostly abusing a cyclist who was floored by a driver emerging from a side road. Astonishing attitudes from 'normal' people.

^^^

Thanks for that. Now I'm thoroughly convinced of being surrounded by young-to-middle-aged people (ok the facebook generation) that literally wish to see cyclists hurt/dead - what's more, their demonstrable failure to learn (or care about) the Highway Code/traffic laws ensures that this is a likely event. Words completely fail me. Never was a Facebook page so ironically named.

Did you read the one underneath?

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hits cyclist video[/url]

Take care out there.

One of my favourites:

Shouldn't allow bikes on the roads anymore it's not safe. Bet he has no insurance! I think cyclist's should f off!

Where have i heard that before?

'I tol'yah boyuh! it just plumb aint safe here in Mizzizzippeh fer them damn Negrer fellers...i think they should just go home should never have allowed 'em heya!'

Not that believe there is a conspiracy to literally drive cycling off our roads via unchecked entitled angry car-driving haterzzz...but there is a definite trend. I expected a lot of the 'cyclists deserve what they get' remarks, and was not disappointed.

What actually surprised me were the agitated apes leaving those comments seem largely convinced that riding a bicycle is a sign of low status/poverty, and that getting hit by a car is simply a plea for sympathy/ploy for insurance payout.

(drives over cyclists head) "See, I accidentally (hurhur) got me one of them cyclist killed all by accident. Dont say I didnt warn the c. When they gonna learn, it ain't safe! Roads are for cars. Darwin innit"

I love England though, it has nice woods, moors, parks and forests and coast...that makes me proud of my country.

Awe don't be put off... That FB thingy is a teeny proportion of the population and by definition not representative.

I'll be doing my best impression of Phil Gil in honour of Milan-San Remo.

Cap on, clip in

Was driving yesterday (sorry, but I am extraordinarily considerate with people on bikes), and an oncoming car was drifting towards my side of the road. Put brakes on to reduce the collision speed.

He then looked up from his phone long enough to pull back in. Idiot...

Twice yesterday morning while driving locally I had to brake to avoid cars that had drifted to the wrong side of the road. One was excessive speed, one was a young woman looking at a phone.

Maybe a high profile, zero tolerance campaign by the Police would be useful, backed by proper sentencing with no excuses to wriggle out of bans. Just ban people for a week or two, make them take (unpaid) leave if they can't figure out how to get to work, make little Tarquin and Chardonnay miss football practice if they can't get there.

Make the idiots realise that their license to drive is important and shouldn't be squandered.

It's not just about cyclists, it's about protecting everyone, especially from themselves.

Awe don't be put off... That FB thingy is a teeny proportion of the population and by definition not representative.

Absolutely agree. That FB page is designed for people who are ostensibly more interested in focusing on bad drivers/motorists, so would assumedly represent the more sympathetic views towards other road users such as cyclists. pedestrians. Horse-riders etc.

Taking this as the 'concerned motorist' baseline - it does therefore show without a shadow of a doubt that the UK is populated almost entirely by indescribably boorish hateful f**wits, every one of whom is high as a kite on his Dunning-Kruger effect.

( 😉 I do actually agree with you, bikebouy - most commenters are only drawn to those pages for aggro/finger-pointing/'injury-prOn', not out of concern for the state of driving standards/safety)

Since I posted yesterday I went for a very short drive 1.5 Miles.
Young lad pulled out at speed on a mini roundabout causing me to hit the brakes.
Young lady drove straight across a junction, head up looking under her glasses to text with her phone on the steering wheel. Myself and traffic on the opposite carriageway skidded to a halt. Guiltily driver oblivious.
Return journey.

Old fella driving under 20 with brake lights on permanently as in faulty. Driving so slow other drivers thought he was letting them out.
In three miles you see awful driving.
Also encountered an incoming car pull over heading right for me so she could park up outside the sweety shop.
Plus stopping in box junctions and on crossings.
Its just bad.

Can we add in parking as well? Not as dangerous, or a different kind of dangerous, but on my street (wide enough for parking on one side, about half of houses have driveways) lots of people park slightly/halfway/fully across the pavement.

I can usually squeeze by on foot but not everyone can. I think it's a symptom of the same problem as texting while driving etc.

Parking ?? Can we add in Parking ???

Only if includes X5 and ML 4x4 drivers then Yes, off you goooooooooooo ! 😆

our right it is getting worse but I only find it in town meaning Cheltenham which is a small place but has some crazy driving these days

Sorry to hear that 🙁

I bought my first MTB in Cheltenham, (Williams Cycles 1989!) Was living there at the time and commuting daily from Montpellier to Swindon. Short commute, from memory never had any problems, but at 5:40am you wouldn't expect many! Also used to cycle from there to the West Midlands and back, and never felt particularly unsafe at the time - even on the A roads.

quick question, because I don't know, but are phone records pulled from the time of an accident? Doesn't seem hard to do, and would show whether someone was texting or calling...

Hands free makes no difference either, your brain's still elsewhere.

(and yes, this is too late to help the poor sod smeared all over the road I know).

Went to Bikeexpo.co.uk at the event city , manchester ,next to the the cathederal of consumerism,huge car parks and 2 bike parks one in side the event with a chap checking bikes in, depsite the show being aimesd at cyclists etc, only 2 bikes locked up in the secure area, and none in the outside area, on arrival most of the car parks were filling up, on leaving at 13.00 all car parks almost full with signs advising more parking spaces in overspill car park, its such a well located place, surely more people could cycle ther with more cash spent on better signage and cycle lanes etc.

quick question, because I don't know, but are phone records pulled from the time of an accident? Doesn't seem hard to do, and would show whether someone was texting or calling...

a fellow cyclist who was a traffic copper, said some motorists set the clock on their phone back an hour, so if stopped could show the call log and say they hadnt used the phone for an hour, easy to just check clock time, or phone the phone and see what time registers on phone.He caught a few like that

Every time a cyclist is overtaken by a motor vehicle they'll invariably be giving them a pretty wide birth - and as the driver coming from the other way that's a potential accident in the making - Look I've spent many days in my life cycling on roads so it would be churlish to advocate not to road cycle - But it's delusional not to accept that cycling on roads can be hazardous to driver's ... If you want to do it fine but accept the calculated risks - I personally would never bother these days - MTB all day!

^^^^^^ nothing is forcing the driver to overtake the cyclist, NOTHING.

If it's any consolation to the OP, I can say that it's not just in the UK. Having commuted in London for 3 years the worst set of road users I've ever come across are Irish drivers. Back at home in Limerick a fella once figured it was ok to clip my handlebars while travelling at 50kph on approach to a roundabout in icy conditions (Winter of 2009). Not that that's any help, I guess mandatory cycle commuting for a period would probably open their eyes alright.

I feel the same op. I started serious riding with my dad when I was 6. Started racing at 12 and went on to road race spending up to 25 hours a week on the road. About ten years ago I'd had enough. I came back from every ride in a bad mood because of ridiculous driving. Thats when i started mountain biking. But if someone like me gets bullied off the road how the hell are inexperienced riders going to cope.

Ive got 2 daughters who occasionally ride with me off road only. A few weeks ago I had a discussion with my wife about whether we should be encouraging them to ride. The answer was no. I'm very sad. It's only going to get worse and I'm not risking their lives or mine.

I stick to cycle paths where possible on my commute. It makes it slower but I don't have to put up with as much idiocy on the roads.

add my 2p here
cycled for 3 months in Europe only 2 incidents
cycled here on friday morning, had 2 incidents one very serious (van overtaking a group of cyclists up hill as two of us coming down the other side, he flashed is lights and waved with his hand for us to get out of the way - while laughing!)

doesnt matter if you live where you only see 1 car a week or 10000 - its the standard and style of driving thats the issue in the UK.
we should forget this constant eye on "speeders" and move towards standards and sharing the road.

the "texting van driver" story sums up EVERYTHING about the UK for me.

I reckon every new car should be fitted with a jamming device that stops mobile phones picking up a signal which activates every time the engine starts. That would at least stop the phone obsessed drivers from doing as much damage.

Other than that the law needs to be changed so that causing death or serious injury by dangerous driving is dealt with by stronger sentences. I've long felt that if you don't like somebody in this country and want to get away with murder just down half a bottle of whisky and run then over. You'd loose your licence and maybe at worst spend a couple of years in prison. The current legal system doesn't place enough value on human lives; that's what has to change to make a real difference.

Personally I don't go out on my bike without a helmet camera these days. I'm sure I look a right pillock as it is quite bulky but better to be an alive pillock than a dead one.

I've been out for a couple of hours on the road bike this morning and observed some shocking behaviour. Inconsiderate use of the road with little awareness of others around them.

The protagonists on this mornings ride were club cyclists in large groups.

I was out over Hudds this aft- fantastic road manners displayed to me. Must be the weather 😀

Bregante it descends very well. Brakes are lacking though at speed 😆

Personally I don't go out on my bike without a helmet camera these days. I'm sure I look a right pillock as it is quite bulky but better to be an alive pillock than a dead one.

Not trying to be a PITA, but how is a cam going to keep you alive if you're hit?

Went to Bikeexpo.co.uk at the event city , manchester ,next to the the cathederal of consumerism,huge car parks and 2 bike parks one in side the event with a chap checking bikes in, depsite the show being aimesd at cyclists etc, only 2 bikes locked up in the secure area, and none in the outside area, on arrival most of the car parks were filling up, on leaving at 13.00 all car parks almost full with signs advising more parking spaces in overspill car park, its such a well located place, surely more people could cycle ther with more cash spent on better signage and cycle lanes etc.

I went to BikeExpo this morning (by car), there is no way in hell I'd ride up there. It's an easy enough ride - 20 miles or so but that whole area has woeful public transport links (very limited bus, no train or tram) and it's designed to get everyone in and out by car. Massive expressways, 3 and 4-lane gyratory systems, 4-lane roundabouts, huge volumes of fast-moving traffic. It's designed to cope with match-day and Saturday shopping traffic so when it's quieter, like on a Sunday morning, it becomes a race-track.

I'm an experienced road rider but there's not a chance I'd ride that lot. What little cycling provision that is there is woeful: gravel-strewn shared-use tracks that cease to exist at random points, no signage. Dreadful place.

It's funny, I'm coming to the end of 2500km, through Europe to Athens. Apart from Macedonians, who mostly seem to drive with zero respect for anyone else, the only other issue I had was a dick in a range rover on UK plates.... Embarrassing really.
That's Germany, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania and now Greece.
Surprise winners are Albanians in general, no incidents giving most passing distance and Greek lorry drivers.
Van drivers were universally worse than anyone else.

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but modern cars really do isolate the driver. And I'm sure modern safety features contribute to risk compensation, the cyclist getting the shitty end of it.

Driving standards are as excellent as ever in this country compared with most other countries in the world. However since the Police gave up patrolling and relinquished enforcement to cameras and computers, removing the threat of being seen by a patrol car, the tiny minority of habitual law-breakers know they can carry on beaking the law with impunity and if they get caught by a camera they only have their own bad observation to blame.

You need to ride somewhere quieter. In the Ribble Valley and Bowland Fells we are generally treated with extreme courtesy by drivers but it's rural and very popular with cyclists.

This poster has it right:

You need to move somewhere quieter. Grew up in Dumfries and Galloway where you'd be able to ride 100 miles on nice quite country roads and not see more cars that you could count with your fingers. I'm sure Somafunk will attest to how quite the roads round here could be.

Even in Fife most of the roads were pretty quiet and almost never had any aggro with driver.

On the rare occasions when I do venture into busy areas like Manchester I find that my position and manner of riding make a big difference; perhaps 12 years of motorcycling have taught me to take up the right position on the road. This includes taking up the entire carriageway while approaching emerging traffic, moving across their field of vision to create sideways movement and establishing strong eye contact. Drivers generally only respect other road users who show assertive body language.

{quote]I've long felt that if you don't like somebody in this country and want to get away with murder just down half a bottle of whisky and run then over. You'd loose your licence and maybe at worst spend a couple of years in prison.

I think you've not thought about this very much, as your plan seems unnecessarily complicated.

Self-driving cars are well into development... the solution's on the way 🙂

I think you've not thought about this very much, as your plan seems unnecessarily complicated.

Not trying to be a PITA, but how is a cam going to keep you alive if you're hit?

A lot of motorists seem to realise that it is a helmet camera and give me a wide berth as a result (it films front and back at the same time). Plus I'm a big guy who rides assertively. If one of the buggers does drive over me I would hope that the footage would send them straight to prison. Frankly its a sad state of affairs when you think about our roads and the muppets that think they have a god given right to use them.

quite - what's the point of the whisky?

Teetotal killjoys the lot of you :-).

I'm with those who are looking forward to driverless cars being on our roads. In fact it would be great if they could start with driverless vans, that way I could sort out my paperwork between appointments rather than at the end of the day.

I'm still riding and enjoying the old "Maxlite I bought off you a couple of years ago, we are doing the C2C this summer too.

Groovy Gravy! Really made me smile cheers, have a good one.

I find that riding a less road specific bike encourages me to poke along roads with surfaces that I'd normally avoid on a 25mm tyre.

Since I repurposed a 29er for road use with Big Apple tyres (2.35") it has been a lot more enjoyable because I can poke along on surfaces that would be very uncomfortable otherwise.

Today's pootle along single lane roads and gravel paths.

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I went to BikeExpo this morning (by car), there is no way in hell I'd ride up there. It's an easy enough ride - 20 miles or so but that whole area has woeful public transport links (very limited bus, no train or tram) and it's designed to get everyone in and out by car. Massive expressways, 3 and 4-lane gyratory systems, 4-lane roundabouts, huge volumes of fast-moving traffic. It's designed to cope with match-day and Saturday shopping traffic so when it's quieter, like on a Sunday morning, it becomes a race-track.

I'm an experienced road rider but there's not a chance I'd ride that lot. What little cycling provision that is there is woeful: gravel-strewn shared-use tracks that cease to exist at random points, no signage. Dreadful place.

I'm guessing you are approaching from the south / stockport side ?

I went to Bike Expo on my Bike, straight in, parked up in the inside compound so much easier than driving but I came from Bolton side which was down the NCN 55, then minor roads over Barton Swing Bridge then I use the footpath cycle lanes past Asda to Event City.

I wouldn't like to tackle it from the south side though....

My experience as a driver near Evrnt city in Trafford park (hands up) http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/so-i-had-a-close-miss-last-night-with-a-cyclist

I wouldnt cycle round there (or if I did I'd stay on the sharps/rubbly paths provided).

Work shifts? Night etc is quieter but I still remember a trained... driver rolling it there at speed a couple of years back........ It can be a place where everyone goes at it too quickly and add to the mix truck diesel, bolts, parts laying off roundabouts etc...or in the case of the trained driver- rail lines in the road(?)

A lot of motorists seem to realise that it is a helmet camera and give me a wide berth as a result (it films front and back at the same time).

Sorry for the derail but what camera is that? I'm only aware of the Oregon Scientific one that films front and rear, is there another?

A lot of motorists seem to realise that it is a helmet camera and give me a wide berth as a result (it films front and back at the same time).

Hmmm... Or it makes you feel better that you've taken a step to improve your safety and so don't notice their passes as much? Confirmation bias is a powerful thing. Not a criticism, I can't really see that most people are so eagle eyed that they will pick out a helmet cam.

Anyhow, I avoided this up til now because I've never really felt that bad driving was a major issue on the roads anywhere I've ridden (or driven TBH) in the UK.

Not a criticism, I can't really see that most people are so eagle eyed that they will pick out a helmet cam.

Oh I dunno. If it is the Oregon one that I've seen, it'd be hard to miss it, it's **** huge!

much sympathy..I get asked allot if I would ride road bikes simple answer "too many steel death traps out there" numerous times nearly been taken out on a long quite stretch of road by inconsiderate drivers simply giving no space
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and riding one of these now [img] [/img]

I live 10 miles from my door steep to Gisburn forest trails, so happily will ride out there and back..........however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists. Mainly B roads and they are flying along with no attention or care for cyclists, they are even worse that the sunday lets go for coffee or lunch in the country drivers some of who are really patient and polite.

My experience is not

You need to ride somewhere quieter. In the Ribble Valley and Bowland Fells we are generally treated with extreme courtesy by drivers but it's rural and very popular with cyclists.

The culture in the UK (and possibly elswhere) is to pay lip service to road rules because there not "real", for some that even means taking pride in getting away with stuff.

It starts with speeding and ends with dead people.

however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists

Or indeed other road users, last weekend I planned to get the train up to Horton and ride back via various bridleways. However due to maintenance work there was a replacement coach service. Going along the A65 past the Coniston Cold hotel a car with four MTBs on the roof overtook the coach on a blind bend (solid double white lines). Let's just say the coach driver wasn't particularly happy.

however yesterday confirmed to me that the Van/Car drivers desperate to get to the trails have no respect idea or care for other cyclists

I hear you and I LOVE driving on those roads however before I'm lumped in as a hypocrite/typical driver I'm always scanning ahead over the top of drystone walls, never going into a bend fast and wont squeeze past cyclists quickly.

The roads round there are awesome for minimal brakes, lift off and gearing down smooth driving. They just reward smooth driving sooooo much.

However- I know exactly what you mean - people coming out of (any) trail centre or rushing too- I've seen some really shoddy driving both as a cyclist and as a driver.

Oh I dunno. If it is the Oregon one that I've seen, it'd be hard to miss it, it's * huge!

Yep, its the Oregon one and yes it is *ing huge. The picture quality is actually very good on it though.

Not a criticism, I can't really see that most people are so eagle eyed that they will pick out a helmet cam.

Trust me the camera really is that damn large. Short of mounting a old VHS camcorder on my cycle helmet with gaffer tape I would really struggle to make it more obvious. Even the camera mount is massive. Plus, as I found out a while ago whilst descending Holme Moss at speed in bad weather, it really catches the wind 😀

A lot of motorists seem to realise that it is a helmet camera and give me a wide berth as a result

From my experience, most motorists don't even see a motorbike, never mind a cyclist and even less so a small camera mounted on your helmet.

I agree that it helps prove guilt if you are knocked off but I cant see it stopping you getting knocked off in the first place.

Riding back into Lincoln last night, a fella passed me way too close, with traffic coming the other way, on a bridge.

I offered a critical, objective appraisal of his driving through the medium of sign language (admittedly, maybe not the most constructive response). 100 yards down the road, the bloke pulls in (this is in rush hour traffic by the way) and turns around and drives back up the road, purely to call me a prick. Nice one, stay classy.

People get so tetchy about their driving. Yes, I'm sure you are Colin McRae reincarnate, I'm sure you have bossed Gran Turismo without driver assist, I'm sure whatever engagement it is you're rushing to is so important that you're willing to risk someone's life for the sake of a few seconds.

The government seem to be putting a lot of effort into raising awareness of motorbikes, why not bicycles to a similar extent?

I'm considering getting a motorbike, but the way I'm treated on my bike (not a commute goes by without getting cut up, pulled out on, passed too close, overtake-turn), really makes me question this. I know I'd be ok pootling about if the roads were clear, it's just all these ignorant assholes with places to be that are really putting me off the idea.

The government seem to be putting a lot of effort into raising awareness of motorbikes, why not bicycles to a similar extent?

Now that is an excellent question. If we had a campaign like the think bike one, it would really raise the profile of cyclists and get people talking. Then I think people might start to think of us as something other than a fringe group of untermensch.

"Then I think people might start to think of us as something other than a fringe group of untermensch."

Well put - that just about sums up how I feel on many days on my daily commute. For example the other day when some woman in a VW Anorak mounted the kerb/cycle path just in front of me and then looked at me blankly when I had the cheek to raise my hand.....

A spot of light research suggests that the cyclist mortality rate is about a 3rd of that of motorcyclists, with almost as many serious accidents.

Now, I'm highly doubting rider error makes up an equal percentage of those 2 figures, I would assume (ass - you - me, I know) that many more of the motorbike accidents are a result of the actions of the rider, rather than other motorists, just based on the increased speed alone. You have to be doing pretty well to kill yourself on a bicycle without the addition of an external influence, like another road user.

I offered a critical, objective appraisal of his driving through the medium of sign language (admittedly, maybe not the most constructive response)

I simply shake my head or do the 'what?' sign with an open hand/palm facing upwards'.

If they notice the 'bird' they'll notice a sarcastic wave or 'what'. So message received.

****er etc sign puts you on a level with them so you lose any high ground IMO. Plus some people really are wind up ready to explode due to their life/stress/debt and even though they never were much at fighting at school suddenly they feel like they want to fight. Like a 10yr old child high on sugar lashing out.

If they still pull over and kick off. Fine but bad driving should [u]not[/u] go unchallenged, same with bad behaviour in a bar, street, etc. Why should sitting in a box remove you from how a person should conduct themselves?

I've said this myself- the day I sit behind a twitching curtain in fear to say anything- that should be the day I leave this earth (death or back on my spaceship 😉 ).

This week - solid traffic filtering down to a red light. I pulled out of my road on my bike and a 64 plate Merc raced to close the gap and sit on the car bumper infront. I shook my head and he opened his window and said 'WHAT'?

I asked him calmly why he did that with a redlight ahead.

Talk carefully and slowly and explain and it most circumstances it can dissipate someones lashing-out stress-anger IMO.

I know giving them the finger isn't ideal, though it seems to have become muscle memory since I started commuting. I've gestured "can I have a bit more space please?" before, by moving my right hand in and away from the bike, and a bloke stopped and asked "how much space do you ****ing need?!"

People need to chill-T-F out.

@hora

I am genuinely interested in knowing if that helped the driver understand why what he did was pointless.

I have a similar situation on the commute. Some motorists race ahead and cut you up just so they can queue less than 100m ahead.

Had some hero have a go at me for daring to be ahead of him when this happened. Gave him a look as I pulled up alongside him, but I felt it was pointless talking to him. People like that usually don't understand reason.

Space???

Open jacket riding home from work- my zipper(?) must have clipped the edge of a cars wing mirror. He stopped at lights leaned over and asked my why I hit his car.

I had to stretch my jacket out to measure for myself- he really was ****ing close.

I am genuinely interested in knowing if that helped the driver understand why what he did was pointles

We've all had instances in our lives when we've done something angry/rash/stupid and been challenged and immediately afterwards thought 'I didn't cover myself in glory there'.

If it worked on the odd person maybe, just maybe they'd treat a cyclist abit different on their drive in.

I was turning left at lights- indicator on. I could see a cyclist steaming up the double-yellows from a distance. Watched him watched - so sounded my horn as a warning before he reached the rear of my car- he let rip GO **** YOURSELF YOU ****ER.

So I immediately stopped and asked him 'why'? He deflated quite abit and then rode off.

[i]I'm considering getting a motorbike, but the way I'm treated on my bike (not a commute goes by without getting cut up, pulled out on, passed too close, overtake-turn), really makes me question this. I know I'd be ok pootling about if the roads were clear, it's just all these ignorant assholes with places to be that are really putting me off the idea. [/i]

One advantage of a m/c over a cycle is that normally we can't get hassled into a corner due to our turn of speed, and if in heavy traffic anyone tries it on you're also dressed head-to-foot in protective gear, so less likely to get face-to-face argy-bargy.

ow that is an excellent question. If we had a campaign like the think bike one, it would really raise the profile of cyclists and get people talking

He said that they're doing Bikeability in some schools, and also some councils offer it. Some of the people who do it will be drivers as well as cyclists, therefore there is no need to do an education campaign because drivers are getting education about cyclists' needs through doing Bikeability.

Personally, I'd guess that the people who choose to do a bikeability course aren't the ones who are harrassing cyclists...

Personally I reckon the standards of driving on the roads are failing. This is pretty apparent where I live because it seems indicating is largely optional. Especially at roundabouts when you play "guess where they'll exit".

ride at night. I went out last night about 9ish for a quick hour and it was lovely. roads were deserted.

I find most drivers in the Highlands give plenty room. The exception is on narrow roads when there is oncoming traffic, and while most will slow down and wait, every now and then there's one who will squeeze through forcing you into the rough edge of the road.

Maybe we should all carry ballpeen hammers and wear a sign saying "If you're close enough for me to hit you with my hammer, you're too close" 🙂

I pulled out of my road on my bike and a 64 plate Merc raced to close the gap and sit on the car bumper infront

Take a road position that'll stop this and accept it when you werent quick enough.

Take a road position that'll stop this and accept it when you werent quick enough.

I do this and what often happens is that the car pulls alongside, then starts to move in, expecting you to move in too til you're in the gutter. Except I usually hold my ground, which then results in a will-they-won't-they battle of wills*. Usually the driver bottles it first. It's quite fun sometimes seeing the faces of them when they realise that you're not playing ball, but you have to be very confident and ready to get out of the way in a split second if they don't give way.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/mar/24/cycling-near-miss-close-pass-road-rage

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-32054221 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-32054221[/url]

Just yesterday, very close to where I live 😐

I do this and what often happens is that the car pulls alongside, then starts to move in, expecting you to move in too til you're in the gutter. Except I usually hold my ground, which then results in a will-they-won't-they battle of wills*. Usually the driver bottles it first. It's quite fun sometimes seeing the faces of them when they realise that you're not playing ball, but you have to be very confident and ready to get out of the way in a split second if they don't give way.

I've started doing this too.

In slow traffic that I can keep up with I just take primary. I pull over when there is a big enough gap for whatever is behind me to actually pass me not just squeeze alongside.

It does work, can be unnerving though, I wouldn't try it with a bus

I blame Top Gear

In slow traffic that I can keep up with I just take primary. I pull over when there is a big enough gap for whatever is behind me to actually pass me not just squeeze alongside.

+1 I even go as far as pulling over & stopping to let a vehicle past me if they are struggling to do so safely.

Having always commuted on my bike, and ridden everywhere possible I made the decision last summer that I no longer wanted cycle commute because I didn't feel the risk was worth it. Whilst I have no doubt that having kids changes your mindset towards risk, I also feel that there was absolutely no respect given to me and my well-being by some drivers. I know this is a minority of drivers, but I did feel that it was slowly getting worse, and only takes one dickhead from this minority to knock you over. What really used to get me was the apparent hilarity of a near miss, or the abuse I seemed to cop if a driver pulled out on me.

This makes me sad as I'm now fatter and less fit then I was, and goes against my belief that we should use cars as little as possible. So there we have it, the wannabe Clarksons/James Martins et al won in my case.

I only rarely ride a few select road routes that I think are reasonably safe, otherwise I stick to off road. I'm pretty keen on bikes and have a nice road bike, so I think that says something about public confidence in road cycling in Britain.

The UK (or at least the SE) is the worst place for road cycling from all of the countries I've ever ridden in. Probably not the most statistically dangerous but the least respect from motorists and the least attention paid by drivers to vulnerable road users.

jam bo - Member
ride at night. I went out last night about 9ish for a quick hour and it was lovely. roads were deserted.

But again, that's not really true as it depends on where you ride.

I normally ride home from work at 9 along empty cycle paths. But, on the occasions I drive, it's noticeable how many badly driven small hatchbacks are around, heading towards the city centre. There's a very good reason why some insurers impose a curfew on young drivers.

Something said earlier in this thread occurred to me while I picked the kids up from school, something about 99% of drivers being fine.

I remembered an old Specsavers poster about the number of drivers needing glasses and not wearing them. A quick check reveals a 1000 strong survey where 9% of people didn't always wear glass/contacts despite needing them (Of course, this is separate from the % who need glasses and haven't had their eyes tested.) So, let's say 1 in 10 with defective eyesight.

Let's think about uninsured drivers - over 1,000,000 on the road. Here in S Wales about 1 in 20. In Merseyside 1 in 8!

What about driving over the alcohol limit? Drugs?

Add in drivers in unsafe cars. Drivers who haven't got a licence. Maybe it's worth adding in the drivers who are simply unsafe, incompetent. Those who are distracted by their phone or think it's acceptable to drive through red lights, maybe?

Of course many of these people will fall into several categories but I reckon that the number of 'unsafe' drivers may be close to 20%.

Maybe as many as 1 in every 5 cars that pass you should simply not be on the road?

I think the biggest gains to cycling safety and cooperative road usage would come from a slick dedicated campaign targeted at drivers.

I'm not surprised the government won't do it, but I'd definitely get behind a kickstarter project to get some pro cycling and road harmony adverts on primetime tele.

I'm even tempted to knock up some stencils and get some guerilla advertising done on my local commuting roads - just polite stuff like a picture of a bike and full lane text stating "my life's in your hands".

my life's in your hands".

[ righteous motorist] No it's not, if you earned some proper money and bought a car then maybe you wouldn't be endangering yourself. Stop trying to pass off blame to those of us who actually PAY to use the roads, you've only got yourself to blame. Just more proof that cyclists belong OFF our roads their a danger to themselves and others. And thats not just the lycra louts five abreast holding up traffic - it goes for the rest of the numpties weaving in and out of traffic, jumping red lights, hopping off the pavement, dark clothes, no lights. Natural selection at work if you get yourselves hurt - BUT guess what: if you hit a car on your stupid bicycle it's us drivers who always gets blamed.

I hate to say this but the majority (all?) of cyclists are freeloaders - no insurance , no road tax, you hold road users up but you pay nothing. No wonder you obstruct/cycle into cars on purpose and film it on those dumb cameras - always after a payout for nothing.

You want it aaaaall your own way you cyclists. Your life is in your own hands, so (just a suggestion) - grow up, work harder and get a car join the grown ups stop playing about in the roads on your kiddy contraptions. [/righteous motorist]

OP - is the lack of cycling getting to you?

OP - is the lack of cycling getting to you?

By the Gods yes! 1 hour a night is not cutting it, not by a long shot. Need an early morning blast again, offroad, that will gather much needed zen. Thnks for the wakeup call, I just wasn't seeing it! 😀

I think the biggest gains to [s]cycling[/s]road safety and cooperative road usage would come from a slick dedicated campaign targeted at [s]drivers[/s] all road users.

I'm not surprised the government won't do it, but I'd definitely get behind a kickstarter project to get some [s]pro cycling and[/s] road harmony adverts on primetime tele.

I'm even tempted to knock up some stencils and get some guerilla advertising done on my local commuting roads - just polite stuff like a picture of [s]a bike[/s] any road user and full lane text stating "my life's in your hands".

I, too, think that we need to have some kind of national road safety campaign on TV but, I do think that it needs to be wider focused than 'Cyclist v Drivers' as that is just confrontational and emphasizes any existing 'us and them' mentality.

Whilst I totally get the fact that cyclists are very vulnerable, the standard of driving in general has to be addressed - I commute by car (too far to commute on a regular basis) and the things that I see on a daily basis (in the same old, predictable, locations) would make you hair curl.

It's a bit like saying "we need to clamp down on criminals that exploit vulnerable old people", where we really just want to clamp down on criminal behaviour in general. (Which, in my opinion, is what a lot of driving behaviour could quite easily be classified as - criminal)

</mildrant>

^^^^
Agree. Hopefully stated in my second comment:

Forgot to say - like most people who regularly ride bicycles, I see myself simply as part of the Highway ecosystem, no less or more entitled to courtesy respect than other road-users, pedestrians, motor vehicles,horse riders etc...

My rant is at the MINIMUM levels of safe driving that are being customarily breached every split second, it affects and endangers everyone, obviously those of us without airbags/a tonne of steel around us are at greater risk from cars than anything else.

But lately? Lately (over the last decade) I have noticed not only the marked increase in day-long motor traffic - but the quite frankly terrifying DE-crease in road awareness, signalling, just driving standards in general.

+whatever. I stopped commuting through Surrey as I was getting nervous before every ride and in particular the evening commute (between Addlestone - Slough - Addlestone, for the record). I occasionally rode with an ex Cat 1 that did it daily - he used to leave before 7am to beat the morning rush, but the evening traffic seemed pretty consistent between about 4 and 7pm.

Driving also seems to be getting worse though too. As a driver I now do minimal miles, most of which are on single lane, windy roads. While dropping my daughter off at childcare (10 mins tops) I will usually see two or three cars exiting blind bends in the middle of the road. Maybe I'm a little sensitive (I was hit by someone doing exactly this a few years back (mine's the Focus): https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/4776905596/ ) but it does seem to be commonplace. Bizarrely my folks have recently moved back out to the sticks and commented on exactly the same behaviour as well.

Or maybe I'm just becoming my parents? 😉

While dropping my daughter off at childcare (10 mins tops) I will usually see two or three cars exiting blind bends in the middle of the road. Maybe I'm a little sensitive (I was hit by someone doing exactly this a few years back (mine's the Focus): https://www.flickr.com/photos/pimpmasterjazz/4776905596/ ) but it does seem to be commonplace.

I almost got hit by a paramedic overtaking on a blind bend (through a narrowing of the road, under a railway tunnel) last week. He had his lights and sirens on but there was simply no way of seeing them because of the way the road bends. I was doing just over 30 on a road where people commonly do 50. (Speed limit there is 30 but it's flanked by waste ground, nothing more, so people seem to think it's NSL.) Had I been really speeding we would have collided front on at almost 100mph combined, I'm guessing.

I think he was heading to a collision between a van and pony/trap, where a woman had been thrown from her seat. She looked shaken but was standing, stretching.

While I understand the need for paramedic's speed, I was a little disturbed that he thought it acceptable to drive in such a dangerous manner.