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Based on the geometry of the XXL Surly ICT which I’ve been riding for 4 years, in either full fat or (mostly) 29+, I really hope I haven’t ****ed things up too much by designing it myself!
It’s being built now, fingers crossed please everybody 🙂
Certainly LL&S.
Good work.
Thanks Brant, that feels like a reasonable validation 👍
It’s not really that much LLSer than the existing frame, the problem has been that with a 120mm fork the HA rides superbly, but the seat angle gets pushed back to about 70 or less, which makes seated pedalling, especially on steep ups, ‘interesting’ 🤪
So kinda tried to make it all work a bit better.
Bluto is now compeletely dead, mastodon 120mm pro ext ready to go, but with a a-c 20mm even longer then the outgoing bluto, it definitely won’t go on the ICT without some rather detrimental characteristics.
Looks good, that'll be great fun.
I did something similar last year. Mines almost identical geo, apart from the HTA which I kept pretty steep at 69 (probably more like 68 with an unsagged 120 Bluto.)
I experimented with slacker by plugging the fat front onto a couple of other frames, but didn't like the way it felt.
Here's mine - I absolutely love this bike!
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500 reach (I'm 5"10)
30mm stem
450 CS
75.5 STA
60 BB drop
PF46 BB 120 wide
69 HTA
All put together with the phattest tubing available.
Thanks fella, that looks awesome! Phwoar, getting excited now 😆
My biggest humming and hawing was over BB width. So many bloody variables!
How much would this sort of thing cost?
Posting just to follow the thread, great stuff here
Joe, my first one was about £850 inc shipping and tax. The fatbike above was my second, which they give a $100 discount on, so ended up under £800.
That was from Waltly Ti.
Ah not quite tempting enough to have a go myself then! Wife would go mental.
Love my Vitus Sentier - if it had been a bit cheaper it could have been tempting to get a Ti version of largely the same geometry made up - perhaps with a tiny bit longer reach / wheel base / front centre, but not by much. Just enough to try and keep the front wheel down a little easier on steep climbs.
My custom titanium fat bike from Waltly was $1000 4 years ago - which included extras like twin top tube and polished downtime and head tube logos. I went with 100mm BSA BB shell so you can run 'skinny' for summer 4" and 29+ and wider cranks / tyres for snow.
If anyone is interested in going down this path, I highly recommend this site:
http://www.spanner.org.uk/
I know Andrew is on here, but I can't remember his log in.
I started this 2 years ago, but we got a bunch of stuff knicked whilst on holiday so money went elsewhere for a while. Was great to reinvigorate it, and Porter at XACD is great to deal with, if somewhat aggressive!
That looks amazing. Good work. I hope you enjoy it!
Well, at least I know the frame is now real, but its still haven't got my sweaty mitts on it.
Photos are from Porter at XACD, love the way they've used an Orange 5 for the background... 😆
Dammit! I really shouldn't look at this thread.
Very nice. Are they going to paint it or are you going for the raw look?
Sorry scotroutes! next time I'm up in happymore you can have a go, and either marvel at the design, or laugh hilariously at all the things I got wrong (I can already spot one niggle).
Roverpig - no, I'm going to leave it totally raw (unfortunately that look has kind of been given rather negative associations now by Sick!, cest la vie)
unfortunately that look has kind of been given rather negative associations now by Sick!
Only in renders though.
Very nice looking frame that.
Hurrah, Hurrah! The build is finished! Rejoice! And now ridden both for a shakedown and then properly in anger this morning.
The fit and finish of the frame was extremely good. Everything faced and chased properly, everything fitted as it should, really excellent and allayed the biggest fear I had with this custom route, of being delivered a lemon.
Majority of components were basically swapped over from my ICT, with the exception of the forks.
It rides superbly - steep, Techy, climbing now a much simpler affair with a steep seat angle, long reach does indeed give a great feeling of moving about the bike, the head angle combined with reach is wonderful on both the fast and the techy downs.
It is also considerably stiffer than the ICT. Only now do I realise how much that frame flexed - whilst on every ride I appreciated the 'give' when landing a jump, I had kinda forgotten about how many times I would stop and check my frame for a crack in the chain stay or something, as there was so much lateral flex.
Not any more! 'NANNY' Gives a huge amount more confidence on the way down, and there is definitely a feeling of that titanium zing (I'm telling myself that anyway... 😂)
Have to mention how utterly spectacular the Mastodon pro EXT forks are compared to my knackered old Blutos - they track where you want them to, actually absorb bumps and not just hard landings (that was pretty much all the Blutos would do for the last 18mths or so, regardless of how much servicing they got), and they also fit 26x4.8 and 29x3 tires properly, with decent clearance rather than the 1-2mm previously.
Was quite an eventful first couple of days, buzzard attack and me snapping the rear maxle to name but two, but my goodness I am a happy camper.
So that frame was £850?
That’s a ****in bargain . .
Hurrah for Nanny!
Seriously, that looks rather nice, and spectacularly affordable.
Crikey that stem is short!
Looks like fun though.
Aye, stem is 35mm as I'd increased the reach a fair bit from my previous frame (which ran a 50mm stem).
I find it amazing that everything is in proportion, looks like a chunky 26er when is in fact 29+
It is not a small bike!
Very nice.
Same 29+ wheels as before, RP, but now I realise that there was rather a lot of flex in the ICT! You maybe can ignore my previous advice (not about 29+, but maybe about putting them on the surly 🤦♂️)
Yes, I was thinking that 🙂 Are you sure it was all frame flex though? I'm rubbish at detecting these things but I have found that what I thought of previously as flexy frames suddenly felt stiffer all round when I put a stiffer fork on.
That is a superb looking bike. the proportions are excellent, you would not believe it’s a 29+. it’s only when you look at how small the chainring looks do you realise the size of it. Well done and that price is amazing. I paid more than that for my heckler frame 22 years ago (sh1t that makes me feel old).
cheers Tim, lets hope it was good value, and that it doesn't suddenly fold and die anytime soon!
RP - hard to say, I suppose a lot could have been down to the forks, but I think that feeling of 'I've got a rear puncture' or 'the frame must have snapped' must
come from around the frame? I remember my old Roadrat feeling the same way if the rack was loaded up.
The scenario I was most aware of the bluto's shortcomings, other than not working as suspension forks, was on steep, techy, twisty downhills, either slow or fast. That TWANG feeling as the forks finally decided to point the wheel where the handlebars were telling it to, or the horrible wiggle as it decided to take its own route through a rock garden. not fun!
I used to think the frame flex feeling was down to tire pressures being too low, but thats clearly not the case as they re the same on the new frame. For sure, the forks make a dramatic difference too.
Yes, fair point, that flat rear feeling must be the frame I guess. There is a fair bit of mass in those wheels and the rear of the ICT is pretty skinny, so it makes sense. I know what you mean about the Bluto. I sold mine and went back to a rigid fork fairly quickly as I couldn't get used to that "magical mystery ride" feeling. It would be fun to try a decent fork on the fatty sometime though. Maybe a Mastadon on my Dude at some point. I think the SA is steep enough that it could cope with a 100mm EXT version. Too many other "projects" on the go at the moment, but looking forward to hearing how you get on with yours.
That looks super. Well done!
There really ought to be a 29+ bike available off the shelf that's as roudy looking as that. My Stache is great fun with big forks on it but I can imagine a proper modern geometry bike like it would just be amazing.
Big Scot - can I just clarify that custom frame from Yongwei Titanium was only 850 quid including shipping??
Great stuff. Just what I needed a quick dose of cool stuff...
Cheers all for the nice comments, I love it.
Andy, website is http://www.ti-bike.com/ and porter@ti-bikes.com (also known as XACD), total breakdown was (from invoice):
(1).Ti custom fatbike frame with raw finish(remain welding color)
FOB XI'AN USD695.00/set 1set USD695.00
Extra costs of 142x12 thru axle dropout:USD115.00
Extra costs of CNC logo in the head tube:USD95.00
Shipping costs(EMS express):USD165.00
Handling charge:USD58.00
Total: 1128 usd, which is about £862
It is quite ridiculous value, assuming it doesn't fold in half, snap or shear of course.
That price also includes about 40 iterations of the CAD drawing, and lots of communication. There are so many things to consider, I got most right, but some things were missed by me (e.g. stealth dropper exit hole is center of seat tube, should have had it further round to NDS for better routing). Helped that I started from the Surly geometry, but on close inspection the numbers manufacturers quote were not very accurate at all. Get handy with a measuring tape!
Remember - this is totally custom, with all the benefits and risks that entails. If you tell them to make it with a 105mm PF bb that nothing will fit, or spec a 76degree head angle and 65 seat, they will probably build it. Also, if you start to go more esoteric, bent seat tubes, tapered head tube etc, costs go up. Mine was relatively simple.
It’s not something to be done in a rush!
Spanner.org.uk is a brilliant place to start, and I can highly recommend XACD - process, and quality of final product, was excellent.
My first thought (other than that looks ace) was how small the chainring looks! Makes sense if they are 29er wheels..that bike looks perfectly in proportion..but more like a 26er than a 29er. It must be huge!
Second thought..850 quid for a custom ti bike?? That looks like the deal of the century to me. Whats the catch? Do you need to have the design skills to send them the plans, or can you just pick a bike you like, copy all the measurements, tweak it a bit, and then send them over the geometry?
That’s a lovely looking bike you’ve got there.
can you just pick a bike you like, copy all the measurements, tweak it a bit, and then send them over the geometry?
Thats basically it. Can't speak for other builders (e.g. Walty), but Porter at XACD, whilst being rather aggressive and direct, in hindsight is extremely helpful and patient - he just wants you to commit cash and not fanny about wasting their time. Fair enough!
Be aware that you have to spec everything - tube diameters, wall thickness, dropouts, cable stops, that we extra stay between chain and seat stay on the NDS, gussets, butting, bottle bosses... Everything.
So thats a risk, as is the somewhat uncertain warranty situation.
Though they are also pretty helpful - e.g. I made sure they new I was a big fella, and didn't want a wet noodle of a frame, so they specced up the tubing diameters and thickness in a couple of areas.
I didn't go down this route as I wanted bling Ti, I just wanted a bike frame that addressed my desires. I was in no rush, except for the current HT frame gradually dying. The whole process I really enjoyed (except choosing the bb shell width and diameter (e.g. PF or BSA, 100mm or 120mm etc) as if I got that wrong the whole thing would be buggered)
In the future I may use a nice steel builder like Ben Cooper, but this gives a chance to play a bit without investing too much cash.
Also already thinking about a 29+ full suspension...
I really, really like that. It looks stunning built up. Godamnit. I don’t need a new fat bike. Or so I thought.
That's nice.
I’ll stop posting about this bike, I promise, but 3 things that have to be mentioned after a proper proper thrash this morning
1) in general - wow! Fabulous! Superb! 😃
2) LLS geometry (and I know mine is not that extreme) - by jings, theres no lie, it really works, utterly fabulous through some hideous, sketchy, sloppy, steep rocks and mud this morning. Tons more confidence, and, EEK, speed! The horrible ups were much more simple to climb
3) Titanium - sorry, I know it sounds like bullshit, but it really does have something special. Wow.
hurrah!
Nice one 👌
Looks great that, really is like a chunky tyred 26" at a glance.
Just think though, for only a little extra you could have had something from Sick! with the benefit of a proper UK warranty 😆
Thought I'd post a little update on the frame in case anyone is interested or following.
Good news - no snapping, folding or cracking... yet!
Better news: took it for a week in the Portes du Soleil as I cannot be arsed with my 2015 stumpy anymore, didn't miss full suss one bit (well, perhaps except when rattling into some braking bumps at high speed, and caveat that I am deffo mince-core). it was spectacular, especially when things got steep - it just carved its way around the problem with no fuss. Amazing.
Betterer news: recent apocalyptic local rain, and a bust spoke on 29+ wheels, meant a first run on full-fat wheels (clown shoes with Bud and Lou) - also spectacular fun.
Niggles with frame: the width of the rear dropout is a little odd. Although specced at 197mm, and the hubs fit properly, its a little narrow for a maxle to fit properly, needed to add a couple of spacers. Not sure what I got wrong there.
Thats all for now, still a happy camper.