[Closed] WW3

Neither the US nor the Russians care enough about Syria to go to war over it.

I can see this one escalating.

The Russians have threatened to shoot down incoming missiles and target their launch sites - i.e. destroyers and carriers.

That's enough to light the touch paper.

Well, Turkey shot down a Russian jet. Different players admittedly.

'Bout time too, it's the perfect situation for the Saudis and Israelis to put their vast arsenals to use and reduce the desert to a desert.

But how did we get here?

Allied support of Syrian rebel groups since at least 2005, ultimately leading to the creation of ISIS via Saudi ideologies, along with supply of CIA/MI6/Saudi ratline of weapons via Benghazi will of course be forgotten, as will the fact that until recently, one of the key players in the WMD bollox, Matthew Rycroft, was Her Majesty's representative at the UN

http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/Part-WAS-Was8949641-1-1-0.jp g" width="400" height="266" />

Matthew Rycroft now works in the DFID with Alastair Burt,

Alistair Burt, who was effectively responsible for overseeing the UK's role in the ratline of weapons (also known as Timber Sycamore), along with his US and Saudi counterparts

(including Bandar Bin Sultan, who you can read a bit more about in this thread: http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/melanie-shaw )

Then there's Adam Smith International, whose role in funneling UK taxpayer funds to extremists was covered by the BBC's jihadis you pay for strangely though, no mention was made of Malcolm Ri****d's role at Adam Smith International despite that being the period when he was heading the Parliamentary Intelligence and security committee.

Just to clarify, I don't suggest that Assad or Putin are angels... though there is certainly much propaganda, much like the babies in incubators that started the Gulf War

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQEyDTPIm6Q

(not forgetting that Saddam was originally supported by the CIA, then armed with both conventional and chemical weapons by the UK and US)

Seems to me WW3 or no, we're in a constant information war, though there are of course countless casualties and refugees, torn from their homes as a result of the bollocks we're fed.

From POTUS a short while ago...

"Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!”

That's a measured, well thought out response from a rational individual, right there....

Now look what you’ve started! You’ve shaken the tree and jivebunny’s fallen out.

Again Russia are happy to play the US at the moment. Agreed with Scotroutes that neither really care about Syria but they are there because of each other and the proxy war continues. Meanwhile China is ticking along nicely out of the way.

What is needed here is some calm heads, unfortunately we have Trump and Israel on one side and Russia Iran on the other, Iran certainly is looking for somewhere to step from - a direct attack on it's troops could be that.

Calling Putins bluff, might be even more serious than the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Fight? If ww3 genuinely starts, we'll all be incinerated in minutes.

This is all getting a bit dramatic, I'm surprised Russia have gone as far as they have in their statement (shoot them down is one thing, targetting launch sites is another very different thing. They've kind of backed themselves into a corner now (Putin won't want to lose face and Trump is almost certainly going to launch a missile strike, even if it's very limited).

Given Turkey and Russia have been cooperating recently it would be interesting if any US response is launched from Turkey (and whether Turkey being a NATO member would be obliged to allow it if the US requested).

So unless the US launches some missiles, Russia shoots a few down and they both secretly agree on some neutralish base for Russia to attack on the Turkey-Syria border this could all get out of control very quickly. If Russia does end up striking back against a US launch site/ship then the US/NATO is going to have to retaliate and I reckon even a limited response strike (taking out a Russian base inside Syria) could end up leading to Russia going after baltic states/Ukraine and then hmm that is WW3 territory.

Yes - I am surprised how anti-Russian the whole media has been. From the ridiculous rigging of the US election ... to the Salisbury chemical nonsense.

I am not saying Russia are trustworthy - but I am saying that the UK government certainly isn`t.

All this sabre rattling is concerning because if it does kick off - it will be our children they send not their own.

Bout time too, it’s the perfect situation for the Saudis and Israelis to put their vast arsenals to use and reduce the desert to a desert.

At least it’s warmer and dryer than Belgium, the last big flat arena for the greater powers to hold their disputes on.

I am not saying Russia are trustworthy – but I am saying that the UK government certainly isn`t.

So you’re saying we cooked up the Salisbury poisoning, and all the other cases of suspicious deaths involving former Russian spies and dissidents then? Do you also think we’re making up the attacks in Syria as well? Please explain your reasoning as to why we would want to bump off someone who had been working for us, when former British agents who had secretly worked for the Soviets were left alone in Russia. And we have no specific reason to want to piss off the Russians, whereas they’re consistently the empire-building aggressors, especially in the former Soviet States.

Yes – I am surprised how anti-Russian the whole media has been. From the ridiculous rigging of the US election … to the Salisbury chemical nonsense.

Yep with a track record like Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, supplying weapons or people that shot down an airliner, jailing of political opponents, the strong evidence around the Litvanyenko case, the numbers of russian actors found in the US influencing social media profiles, the state sponsored doping and Fanny Bears hack for starters I can see why none of this is that believable to you.

incinerated in minutes

I reckon it still wont be enough to dry wharncliffe out.

No doubt The Zombie  Maygot will offer to launch missile strikes in return for trade deals.

I think its quite refreshing that international diplomacy now resembles two pissed blokes throwing chips at each other in a kebab house at 3am

Mickmcd - your comment 'I reckon it still wont be enough to dry wharncliffe out' wins the day. Made me laugh.

It is depressing that international diplomacy is being conducted by four year olds...(no offense meant to people of that age group who usually behave better).

If we are going to be incinerated in minutes can we please make it Tuesday next week? I've got a lot to do Wednesday, Thursday and Friday next week and could use a good excuse not to do it.

Good shout ..gives me a chance to get one last ride in ..

Could we also have some Roman candles & sparklers ..those big rockets are good but get boring after a while..

Ta.

I estimate I'll have a couple of minutes to enjoy the view before being incinerated.  So a cigar and whisky while sat on my roof terrace.  Once in a lifetime event and all that....

<div class="bbp-reply-author">CountZero
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So you’re saying we cooked up the Salisbury poisoning, and all the other cases of suspicious deaths involving former Russian spies and dissidents then? Do you also think we’re making up the attacks in Syria as well? Please explain your reasoning as to why we would want to bump off someone who had been working for us, when former British agents who had secretly worked for the Soviets were left alone in Russia. And we have no specific reason to want to piss off the Russians, whereas they’re consistently the empire-building aggressors, especially in the former Soviet States.

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There has been no proof the Salisbury poisoning came directly from the Russia government. There simply has been no proof - just speculation based on the people poisoned, and the name of the chemical used. It over looks the fact that most western governments have their own stockpile of the chemical, and that Russia had no reason to try and kill the people ... they had him in prison for a number of years, and actually released him ... if he was so important he would have been killed years ago.

There have been lots of articles on the connections the rich Russians living in the Uk operated in whilst accumulating their vast wealth ... shadey dealings with shadey gangsters; so once again, no direct Russian government link.

As for the Russian Troll factorys (or whatever the media call them) that fix the elections by posting on FB etc ... thats just ridiculous. Millions are spent on PR by those running for election ... how some low tech Russian troll posting on FB etc can have more influence is just daft.

But hey - if you have been taken in by the nonsense media ... crack on!

@ scotroutes & mikewsmith - I believe that Russia see Syria as a very close and important old ally and whilst I doubt it would not be enough to wage war with the West over, an attack on Syria by the US would be viewed as very serious by Russia. I also think that Russia has been sowing discord in the West and would love to get Turkish/Nato (West) relations strained even further.

With Russia's new found global confidence and recent verbal threats about retaliation against US launchers, Trump might be backing himself into a corner with his tweets about missile strikes that could bite him in the arse, not so "smart" me thinks.

Any widening of the civil war in Syria threatens to suck in so many different countries (and always has done) I do hope that Trump comes to his senses and winds his head in.

 if he was so important he would have been killed years ago.

Just before the Russian Election

Russian State Television was pointing out that "Nobody was safe if they wanted to get them"

As for the Russian Troll factorys (or whatever the media call them) that fix the elections by posting on FB etc … thats just ridiculous. Millions are spent on PR by those running for election … how some low tech Russian troll posting on FB etc can have more influence is just daft.

You must have missed the reports and investigations into it, in a close run election the balance of power is small and easily moved - the amazing timing of the release of information which is traced back to Russian government linked organisations was enough to make it highly suspicious.

But hey – if you have been taken in by the nonsense media … crack on!

Brought to us from out correspondent on a river in Egypt...

Get on with it, I could do with a few extra pennies now the Iraq /Afghan contracts are drying up...i hear Syria is nice most of the year.

The news needs a bit of spicing up, I say go for it - looking forward to the rolling live coverage of Russian advisers getting blown into the stratosphere by Tomachickens. You reckon it's worth buying a big bag of popcorn for?

It'll be awesome...Russia's forces look good on paper due to sheer numbers but their tech is old, the QC on their hardware is shocking and their troops are poorly motivated amateurs for the most part...even Turkey shot down a supposedly invincible Russian fighter jet recently..Russia will bottle it because they won't want the very pubic humiliation of getting their pants pulled down by the US and UK.

😂

Get on with it, I could do with a few extra pennies now the Iraq /Afghan contracts are drying up…i hear Syria is nice most of the year.

Ah, the penny drops. Our resident racist ambulance driver is an ex-squaddie. It all makes sense now.

Might as well invite Kim & Xi to the party ...they have some good fireworks too..

Weren't we having WW3 with North Korea just before Christmas? Has that been called off?

How far do people think it will go;

US fires on Syria? (seems likely, given previous)

Russia fires on US planes or ship? (they have said they will)

US retaliation?

Gets pretty exciting after that! They seem to be backing themselves into corners.

я приветствую наших новых русских повелителей

(you never know....may serve me well in the coming months)

Rone...that was before the Winter Olympics ..when North Korea fooled everyone into believing we were all mates after hooking up with the South ...😉

One things for sure you don't want to be the bone between two dogs.

We Europe get to mop up the resultant human crisis, with nothing in way of compensation.

I have no interest in fighting a war for some politicians if the shit hits the fan I am moving to the mountains they can come and get me if they want...

Russians are jamming GPS and drone comms in Syria.  The Russian Airforce have been reported as buzzing US and French ships in the Med (nothing too new).

Too many big guns and “toys” owned by the school bullies now rubbing against each other.  Russian Heavy Bombers now stationed in Syria capable of launching “ship killers”.

6 US Airbourne command and control aircraft now airbourne on phoney transponders over the US.........(sourced from various military bloggers I follow)

Not good, but hopefully as I’m rubbing the factor 1000000 sunblock on, watching the mushrooms sprout over Gatwick, the scum bag that launched them will be having an equally bad day.

<div class="bbp-reply-author">mooman
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Yes – I am surprised how anti-Russian the whole media has been. From the ridiculous rigging of the US election … to the Salisbury chemical nonsense.

I am not saying Russia are trustworthy – but I am saying that the UK government certainly isn`t.

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All this sabre rattling is concerning because if it does kick off – it will be our children they send not their own.

Well, well, well. It couldn't be could it that we have our very own, well embedded member of the St Petersburg opinion factory. I could of course be completely wrong, and in the best British tradition I apologies in advance if I am.

But if you think about it a website like this, with its immensely popular forum (despite recent update scandals!) would probably figure on the list of forums to monitor and subvert if necessary. I mean if Ling can do it (and that's Lingscars.com for the avoidance of doubt) then the might of the FSB, GRU and GDPR certainly can.

Like I said, if it turns out that Mooman is an IT middle manager from Woking then I apologise (though he could of course be a sleeper..), but given the choice of content and the slightly off-kilter language, my hackles are certainly raised..

At the rate we are going, North Korea will be a minor issue..

I'm practically hard..😅..lets see some proper fireworks!

mooman

Member
Wanted, any 16-18″ singlespeed specific frame in decent condition
Thanks.

Posted 8 years ago

Either Russia is prepared to infiltrate STW eight years in advance (that’s impressive groundwork)

or you’re getting a bit overexcited...

This genuinely doesn't look too good does it....

Way I see it is that if the US pull the trigger Russia and specifically putin won't back down. If he does he loses all credibility. So there will be retaliation and then it's going to get a bit scary

If it all kicks off the US would easily give the Russians a doing over in a non nuclear encounter. Putin knows this and once the fighting starts is he honesty going to sit back and see his side get a kick in? So unless someone (the Chinese ) offers him a face saving way out, I actually don't think a full on nuke war is all that unrealistic . Hopefully I'm totally wrong however  . . .

On a side issue..

Why are the UK having to get involved I'll never know.. We should stop pretending that we are a major player, its only going to end badly for us.

It is fine - if I wake up in a post nuclear wasteland, I will have my blue passport to gain access to the secure zone....

V8ninety ...hey man ..lets keep the cloak & dagger mystique going ...mooman could be a Russian sleeper cell actually born in this country but groomed from birth to serve Mother Russia ..I reckon MI6 should be informed ..does he live anywhere near Salisbury by any chance ..😉

I’m practically hard....lets see some proper fireworks!

Great, please get in the front of the line, we all know what happens

Couldn't agree with hodgynd more. I mean, by 2010 they would have seen what singletrack was going to become, they are after all known for their meticulous planning and preparation..

Obviously (I hope obviously) I'm not entirely serious, though Mooman's protestations do read somewhat similar to those you get btl on the guardian for instance, which are often called out by the regulars on their website. It amused me is all..

And lets face it, with the kind of nutter on the button that we have in old DT (I don't consider Putin to be a nutter, psychopath maybe, but not a nutter) we need something to laugh at!

I am not saying Russia are trustworthy – but I am saying that the UK government certainly isn`t.

So you’re saying we cooked up the Salisbury poisoning, and all the other cases of suspicious deaths involving former Russian spies and dissidents then? Do you also think we’re making up the attacks in Syria as well? Please explain your reasoning as to why we would want to bump off someone who had been working for us, when former British agents who had secretly worked for the Soviets were left alone in Russia. And we have no specific reason to want to piss off the Russians, whereas they’re consistently the empire-building aggressors, especially in the former Soviet States.

<span class="bbp-reply-post-date">Posted 7 hours ago</span>

Sadly i think youve got infected by the daily mail virus, there is no antidote, youll now vote tory at every election,

If it all kicks off the US would easily give the Russians a doing over in a non nuclear encounter. Putin knows this and once the fighting starts is he honesty going to sit back and see his side get a kick in? So unless someone (the Chinese ) offers him a face saving way out, I actually don’t think a full on nuke war is all that unrealistic . Hopefully I’m totally wrong however  . . .

It's completely unrealistic, both sides know full well that nukes will never be used at a strategic level. The Russian top brass have actually come out and essentially laughed at the idea of ever actually using them unless struck first.

What has become apparent is that both sides now think that they can engage each other in limited wars, without that war escalating into an all out nuclear holocaust.

And no, the Russians won't get their head stoved in - they probably would do in Syria, however they can threaten to escalate and rapidly deploy around 40,000 men in the Baltics  http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/03/if-russia-started-a-war-in-the-baltics-nato-would-lose-quickly/ They have an advantage in how easily they can mobilise.

Reading this thread while watching the ITN news article about women and children being mutilated in the Congo. As my father always said " The world is a beautiful place, it's the people on it who have gone to shit "

Afghanistan gave the russians a bloody nose iirc ....to be honest though despite the fact some of the worst photos are trotted out if someone did release a chemical weapon where theres civvys and kids ....i hope they get whats coming to them, thats cowardice not conflict

So forgive me, I’m not politically orientated but I do want to have a moan.  Why oh why is May going to cabinet to get us into a War with Syria and then most likely, Russia?  Do we not have enough problems and issues to sort out in this country?  What makes her think a veto to War is what we want?  Why does the UK (I understand the moral ground) feel the need to jump into peoples wars? Don’t we have enough issues to deal with, companies going bust etc, squeezed middles, racial tensions...

ffs, I didn’t want brexit, I don’t want a War, but I do want off this shitty little island that’s going to hell in a hand cart quite quickly.

/rant

Because when Trump says jump it's only a question of how high ..

With the state of our military forces in terms of cutbacks ..what else can we do if we want uncle Donalds protection ..

That in itself pisses me off ...

even Turkey shot down a supposedly invincible Russian fighter jet recently

Well no, it was an SU-24 ground attack aircraft which was attacked by an F-16, which is a fighter. The F-16 would probably have won even if the Russians started the aggression.

Why oh why is May going to cabinet to get us into a War with Syria and then most likely, Russia?  Do we not have enough problems and issues to sort out in this country?

You've just answered your own question. A nice little war is a handy distraction from the absolute shambles at home

Because when Trump says jump it’s only a question of how high ..

With the state of our military forces in terms of cutbacks ..what else can we do if we want uncle Donalds protection ..

Or a decent trade deal

Allows May to strike back at Russia for the use of poison in Salisbury, with the added advantage that she doesn't have to attack Russia directly, looks better in the press than sending home diplomats  plus any collateral damage will just be brown people. Maintains the illusion that Britain still has international weight. Will go down well with the right wing press, and the beeb will get a hard on for flak vests and helmets. Also no time to wait for parliament as she want to "act desisively" With other members of security Council, and avoids having Corbyn telling her I told you so, in front of cameras... Again.

End result?

We are going to bomb Syria

Interesting "article" Scotroutes..it does make you wonder ..

Scotroutes, that is the same guy who sits on a board alongside Assad's father-in-law, he has also been accused by Anti-Assad forces of being pro-Assad. He's George Galloway MKII and the idea that this is all going to end in a nuclear holocaust, or that a handful of Russian attack planes pose much of a threat to a carrier battlegroup  with 70 odd embarked F-18s is frankly quite hilarious.

Here's what will happen if the Orange Idiot decides to do it, Syrian and Russian air defences and armour will get flattened, Russian fighters will get swatted like flies attempting to sink some American destroyers, Russia will lose influence in Syria and will retaliate by annexing more of all of the Ukraine and then a stalemate will ensue. Hopefully, Russia will learn that you don't use chemical weapons on UK residents.

It certainly makes you wonder about those who swallow every line punted out by the UK state broadcaster.

I guess that makes me a Russian trollbot in the (small) minds of some folk on here too.

Edit: I rest my case

 or that a handful of Russian attack planes pose much of a threat to a carrier battlegroup  with 70 odd embarked F-18s is frankly quite hilarious.

It doesn't matter how powerful or how puny the thing is that is shot down, it's an act of war. That is the issue, Russia knows that and has small tricks like gas pipelines at it's disposal.

Russia will lose influence in Syria and will retaliate by annexing more of all of the Ukraine and then a stalemate will ensue. Hopefully, Russia will learn that you don’t use chemical weapons on UK residents.

Collateral damage of 10s of thousands of lives then.

Perhaps. I'm not sure what the unintended consequences would be for the normalisation of the use of VX, Sarin and Novichok would be though, in the decades to come. Is that a price that is worth collateral damage now?

Secondly, Russia will shoot itself in the foot if it cuts of gas supplies as it's the only thing propping up their economy.

Anyway, an act of war between two nuclear armed nation states doesn't necessarily mean buckets of instant sunshine for everyone involved, see the Kargil War etc.

 Is that a price that is worth collateral damage now?

It's not a binary choice

I think it is, either the international community backs up the convention or it becomes toothless.

If May goes ahead with a military strike and things go wary, Syrian civilians killed etc.  Will she be accountable for war crimes too?  Will she be held to account by the government or British Public.  Will this be another excuse for someone to target the UK and future backlashes.

Something needs to be done but a military strike is not the option if it could start WWIII.

Not sure how we'd explain that to our 1 yr old

I think it is, either the international community backs up the convention or it becomes toothless.

First mistake - make military threats you don't want to follow through with, at this point somebody needs to look weak unless some diplomatic moves can be made. attacking Russia ends badly for everyone.

Without wishing to state the obvious Jolmes..you wouldn't be explaining that to your 1 year old ..

Fight? If ww3 genuinely starts, we’ll all be incinerated in minutes.

Only if you're one of the lucky ones. The majority of us get to enjoy the extended aftermath.

Not sure how relevant this is...

But it may go some way to help explain...

maybe I've watched too much homeland but I can' believe Syria (or russia) is really so dumb as to use chemical weapons despite what the press is saying.  Given the diplomatic impact why would you?

I really hope we (uk) stay out of any escalation and focus on sorting out our own internal problems

Anyway, back to Matthew Rycroft, who until January this year was Her Majesty's representative to the UN:

In 1998, he joined the British embassy in the United States, where he served for four years. In 2002, Rycroft was appointed Private Secretary to Prime Minister Tony Blair, to advise him on matters related to foreign policy, the European Union, Northern Ireland and defence.

During this time Rycroft wrote a letter to Mark Sedwill, private secretary to the foreign secretary, Jack Straw. The letter reveals that "we and the US would take action" without a new resolution by the UN security council if UN weapons inspectors showed Saddam had clearly breached an earlier resolution. In that case, he "would not have a second chance". That was the only way Britain could persuade the Bush administration to agree to a role for the UN and continuing work by UN weapons inspectors, the letter says.

Sir Mark Sedwill mentioned above is now the UK's National Security Adviser;

He has previously been a UN weapon's inspector... spookily, he was also drafted in as the Permanent secretary to the Home Office shortly after the Jimmy Savile scandal broke... remember the 114 missing files?

Small world...

I'm hope the Russians do a better job of shooting American planes down than they do of Israeli ones.

The Russian force in Syria are a little isolated, to get backup they would need to be airlifted up and over Turkey, plus get their bulk supplies by ship through the Bosphurus, so unless Turkey suddenly decides to leave NATO (and Russia attacking a NATO member kind of stands for what NATO is about) I don't see all this as being more than a bluff.

Otherwise they could go through Iran, that would encourage some in the Middle East to maybe make this little regional conflict a little more widespread.

I suspect this will all ramp up a bit then die down when China tells them all to calm down as its affecting their Belt and Road plans.

What needs to happen is Assad getting some McDonalds franchises in as I seem to remember there being some stat that says no country with McDonalds franchises have ever gone to war with each other (I could of course be hopelessly wrong here)?

I've read the majority of that report Dazh posted and flicked through the rest ..last updated in 2003.

It sounds fun doesn't it !

With regard to the UK ..almost a third of the population wiped out straight away ..anyone think the odds are any better 15 years on ?

I simply wouldn't want to be a survivor in that scenario..a slow death in the aftermath just does not appeal .

First mistake – make military threats you don’t want to follow through with, at this point somebody needs to look weak unless some diplomatic moves can be made. attacking Russia ends badly for everyone.

No, the convention becomes toothless as soon as a weapon is used without robust action in response. The world still only understands hard power, firing some diplomats here and there and trying to isolate a country economically just doesn't work.

So you either accept that or accept the increased use of these weapons against civilian targets both abroad and in the west, as they lend themselves perfectly to Russias brand of implausibly deniable hybrid warfare/state based terrorism - as they have much greater areas of effect than explosives (with Novichok anyway) per gram of substance - so easy to to smuggle.

I'm ****ed. I live in Surrey,  London to the north east, Southampton and Portsmouth to the south west, As well as our pirbright, Aldershot etc just down the road.

I won't even have time to open a beer, let alone look in the cupboard for the nice stuff.

Edit: tbh, this is probably the best option if it all goes tits up.

Only if you’re one of the lucky ones. The majority of us get to enjoy the extended aftermath

Do you mean the aftermath like when  DCC  resurface everything

A nice little war is a handy distraction from the absolute shambles at home

it is also a visual manifestation of Tanking Back Control.

And that’s what Brexiteers want. They want to belittle and bombast those they feel are an oppressed group, an easy target to Goosestep all over.

There will be a vote in parliament before we engage in action, DasFurhur can not act alone. So it’s lain to those who despise War to oppose her Own political dogma.

The local elections are close, whose taking bets that DasFurher instigates “something” oppressive to gain a few votes from the right wing swiveleyed looms and morons.

I’m ****. I live in Surrey

According to nukemap I'm in the 3rd degree burns and fallout zone so I can look forward to a nice bout of radiation sickness while my skin peels off. If I survive that I can look forward to starving to death. Joy.

Surprised nobody has mentioned this yet...

that missile map thing kim jong un has a proper pants weapon and only one at that...whats all the fuss about wasnt even big enough to take out sheffield city centre