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Yup,it's weird.
Been thinking about changing my motorbike for next summer, it works out as the same spend as a new full groupset,stem,seatpost and bars for my Grovel bike. Decisions, decisions 🤔 😅
TJ posted that before I'd actually finished watching the video myself so, you know 😉
It is a much larger market though, so they will have much better profits. The cycle industry appears quite happy to be selling stuff at huge prices - in a lot of cases, people pay that amount...but it does feel like the cycle industry are trying to fleece the paying public. Apparently they do things in smaller numbers so costs are higher - when compared to motorbike costs, but I'd argue the volumes are still high i.e. Schwalbe aren't making just 10 Magic Mary tyres...yet they can still cost upwards of 65 quid - they'll be making thousands so there will be cost reductions there - are they passed onto the public? Absolutely no idea but the cynic in me says they won't be as people are willing to pay those amounts.
There will be savings due to quantity, but as a grumpy old mountain biker, I'm not convinced the costs of bike stuff isn't just what the public are willing to pay so there will be a large chunk of profit there (if not, how can there be sales of tyres that were 68 quid and they are now on offer for 23 quid - aware of loss leaders but this tends to be a yearly cycle for the same tyres - I bought them 2 years ago for same price and a year ago for the same price and now this year, for the same price).
Sorry, went on a complete waffle there...motorbike has far more customers so sell more and therefore can make bigger profits.
I hear a lot about the motorbike market being SO much bigger than the bicycle market, but how many motorbikes do you actually see? Maybe a handful a month for me. And a quick Google suggests the global motorbike market is worth about $120bn and the bicycle market $100bn. That's not so enormously different to justify the perceived difference in what we get for ouroney.
Having run both motorcycles and bicycles the motorbikes are vastly more expensive to buy and run if you compare like to like.
No I didn't watch the vid - its basic premise is wrong so whats the point?. Top end motorbikes are much more expensive to own than a top end bicycle. Basic bikes the same. sure you can find a cheapo motorbike for less than a top end bicycle but thats apples to oranges. That cheap motorbike is the equivalent of a argos BSO
That video is actually worth watching - it does a pretty good job of answering the “MTBs are too expensive” statements on here.
One thing they don’t mention is how many Norco Ranges are sold per year - they say 40k of that KTM model is sold annually. I know the world is a big place but 40,000 of such a niche MTB per year seems a huge amount (even if the MTB and motorbike global market is the same size).
Regarding heavily discounted stock meaning that the original full price stuff was way overpriced, the harsh reality of running any business is that you can’t predict the future which means you often end up with surplus product and it’s better to sell that at a loss and free up cash whilst reducing warehousing costs, than sit on it pretending that one day someone will buy it at a profitable price.
The longer anything sits unmoving in a warehouse, the more it costs the business - especially in the UK where commercial rent and rates are v high.
Just did some internet investigating. Apparently Norco’s annual turnover is about $20-30M. If the Range represents 20% of their sales (I think it’s likely to be much less than that) and they sell them to dealers for $5k then that’s only 1200 bikes per year based on $30M turnover.
No I didn’t watch the vid – its basic premise is wrong so whats the point?
Classic.
Why bother with new information when you already know everything?
Top end motorbikes are much more expensive to own than a top end bicycle.
Maybe they say exactly the same thing in the video, but sadly you'll never know.
Well that’s just bollocks. A KTM Duke 390 may be small capacity but it is certainly not an MSO.
I meant "that cheapo motorcycle" in general terms. Ie the chinese rubbish that costs similar amounts to a decent bicycle
The KTM is a low / mid range bike bike - and would cost far more than a similar level bicycle and also be far more expensive to run
https://www.amsmoto.co.uk/gasgas-mc-450-f-factory-edition-2023
Both similar levels of bike...
It does seem like one of them is taking the piss.
The Sworks has parts fitted to it that would be used at top, international, level competition. And is produced in much lower numbers.
How many parts of the dirt bike are used at a similar level, or what would the equivalent cost be?
Look at the bike Nino has just won the World Cup XC overall on. I reckon I could build that identically, or as close to it, for ~15k.
It’s the British Superbike final round today, so national not world level, how much are the bikes up the sharp end of the overall?
“Both similar levels of bike…
It does seem like one of them is taking the piss.”
It’s so much more expensive to make things light and strong - that plus low volumes and customisation are what drives MTB costs so high.
But I agree about the S-Works pricing, I’m sure that’s set at what they think they can get away with because someone buying that bike is not price sensitive (and may even subconsciously want to pay more) and that halo model makes the lower models (that sell in bigger volumes) seem better value.
How many parts of the dirt bike are used at a similar level, or what would the equivalent cost be?
The Gaser is pretty competitive bone stock...
You could ride that at any British MX championship with very minimum mods and it wouldn't be the bike that was stopping you from winning.
It’s the British Superbike final round today
Comparing an MX bike to a mountain bike is a much closer thing in every respect.
You could pick up a decent mountainbike for a quarter of the price of that S-Works and it would not be the bike that's holding the vast majority of riders back. For example:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/vitus-mythique-29-amp-mountain-bike
I was just comparing a couple of like for like models.
Both top models in the range from each manufacturer.
Both manufacturers in around the same position of esteem in their sport.
I'd not be spending that much on either.
I was just comparing a couple of like for like models.
The S-Works is a halo model, like a BMW M3. You can buy a perfectly decent MTB for a fraction of the cost of an S-Works model. Unless you are racing at World Cup level, the 20 seconds you'd save over a 3 hour race distance is irrelevant.
Tour stages have been won on stock Specialized road bikes. Costing at the time £10,000. Say £12,000 now
top flight competition MTBs according to the above is about £15,000. That seems plausible to me even in Downhill
Top flight motor bike costs dwarf that. You can pay £5000 for a brake caliper, £200,000 for an engine etc.
I think it’s got more todo with what they think they can get away with. During covid they could charge what they liked and sold them. I’m hoping that all the current alleged overstocks means prices will be forced back down to more reasonable levels
What Sharkattack said up there. 👍😂
BMW mid range tourer - £10 000 ( r 800)
Spa cycles most expensive tourer. £3200.
Midrange set of tyres for the BMW - £200+
Nice tyres for the bicycle? Half that
Maybe just watch it Tj?
You could have done a few times by now. 😉
Otherwise you're just arguing a point that isn't really a point.
Yes, I am new here
I am always buying and selling motorcycles. If I buy a top end BMW (currently have a K1600) then it will lose/cost about 20-25% (£5k) over 3 years.
This morning I bought a low mileage, 5 years old Honda NC750X. That will lose almost nothing over 3 years; maybe £1k maximum if I include all servicing costs and devaluation.
My SC Tallboy (£6.5k) will likely lose £4k by the time it's 3 years old.
So, in my experience, motorcycles are usually cheaper to own than fancy mountain bikes 👍
£32,449
£2,849
£257.99
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/gt-transeo-sport-step-thru-urban-bike-2022
Quite enjoyed the video. I felt it "defended" why bicycles are so expensive.
Not sure about the line, "the average mountain biker rides at 80% of a pro's level" 🤣
Whatever the argument for cost of goods leaving the factory floor, it's also a small part of the final consumer cost.
The distribution model is entirely different. A lot of brands come in via distributors where motorcycles are subsidiaries, and dealer margins are much higher on cycles than motorcycles, so that's going to impact the cost of bikes disproportionally as bikes get more expensive.
That margin needs to exist though if we want cycle shops, because bikes models come in different sizes whereas motorcycles don't, and therefore stock turn is much worse on cycles than motorbikes. Invest £50k for example stocking a high end mountain bike range from a boutique brand, and the chances of you having the right bike, in the right size, and the right colour for your next customer is slim. Return on investment is very poor in the cycle trade for most cycle shops at the kinds of bike prices we all ride.
Also, much of the motorcycle trade's income comes from strong contribution from workshop and used bike sales. Two things that just don't exist in any significant way in the cycle retail trade, which means not only do the cycle retailers need the higher margin on bikes, they also need to try and retain it as it's their only real source of income (well, they do if want to still have shops to go to).
Not sure about the line, “the average mountain biker rides at 80% of a pro’s level” 🤣
I'm pretty average.
I'm very pleased to hit the top 20% on a Strava segment I've not ridden much.
My best time down fort William is 10 min, the best time down the version of the track I did was about 5 min. Not including the gap jumps on the race version of the track.
So that puts me well under 50% of what the pros are riding. If I might be top 20% of riders on a segment, on a good day, not including bigger features that says....
I don't need a top end bike!
I’m not convinced by that “they charge more becuase they can” argument. It’s such a criwded marketplace, I would be really surprised if one of the brands didn’t drop their price to grab a bigger market share
There was that one company who was gonna shake things up, beat the bike industry at its own game etc.
Lasted what, 18months/2 years? Stole a lot of peoples money in the process.
I watched the video. The only thing I learnt was that a KTM race bike cost $2,000,000.
The argument not put forward was that weight and efficiency matters way more when you’re the engine producing less than 1 horse power. Progress on this is astonishing. My current bike with disc brakes, full suspension bike, dropper, bigger wheels and wider tyres weighs no more than my first rigid run braked MTB. That’s astonishing engineering
The other thing missing from the video was the % profit in turn over for KTM and Norco. Any ideas?