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This is an absolute piss take. 1 Litre of Shimano Mineral Oil is now £55 to £78 everywhere!
Not long ago it was £20.
What's this about ? Worst value ever.
It always has been when there's other options you can use at 1/2 or even 1/4 the price.
LMH 12.99 a litre at halfords
Brexit.
I can afford it easily if it's needed but that £78 is an absolute piss take beyond belief compared to what else you can get for that sort of money. There has been many piss takes in this sport (Had to pay £76 for a bit of plastic I broke on a Levo battery rock guard and then pay £90 for braking a little bit of plastic on a dropper post) but this beats them all!
I was expecting to pay £20 for a litre like I did about a year or two ago and couldn't believe it when I saw it £56-£78 with 5 Star reviews from the buyers!!! Robbing ****s
Meanwhile there are still numerous websites listing it at £20 a litre but it is invariably out of stock at all of them!
You might want to read this thread from about 4 years ago.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/psa-lhm-mineral-oil-from-halfords-for-3-per-litre/
I have a set of XT 4pot brakes from 2003. They had a new hose 15 years ago and were bled with LHM fluid. They've been perfect since and not been bled. LHM fluid is absolutely fine.
Looks like a stock issue rather than a pricing change.
Its on back order with Madison, ETA was something silly last time I checked, I would assume some people who have it in stock are trying to cash in on that.
It definitely used to be cheap, Ive got half a bottle Ive had for over 10 years, that cost me £12!
It definetely used to only be about £20 a litre!
At those prices it's cheaper to just pay a mechanic to bleed the brakes for me than do it myself which is what I'll be doing at least until (or if ever) it's back in stock at a reasonable price.
As mentioned above LMH from halfords been using it for years, no problems at all.
It definetely used to only be about £20 a litre!
RRP is currently £22.99 for 1L from Madison/Freewheel, it used to be £20.
I have a set of XT 4pot brakes from 2003. They had a new hose 15 years ago and were bled with LHM fluid. They’ve been perfect since and not been bled. LHM fluid is absolutely fine.
Hmm. Sometime after 2003 loads of people started having issues with leaking calipers. I'd not risk it, personally. I mean, that's expensive per litre but you hardly need any. I've bought 2 of the little bottles since I first had Shimano brakes in 2007 and I've got probably 1 bottle left.
Hmm. Sometime after 2003 loads of people started having issues with leaking calipers. I’d not risk it, personally. I mean, that’s expensive per litre but you hardly need any. I’ve bought 2 of the little bottles since I first had Shimano brakes in 2007 and I’ve got probably 1 bottle left.
All of my brakes have only ever been bled with LHM and the only leaking one I've had was leaking from new. I've also serviced lots of brakes for other people, again with LHM, never had an issue. It's just mineral oil. There's nothing special about it despite what Shimano claim.
It's due in at Madison in about March! My LBS has run out, I looked on CRC to see if I could get any for them but all they listed were the 100ml ones and they're out of stock of those too.
Guessing that the pricing is just reflecting that. No idea why there such a shortage though.
Still €20 for 1l on some German sites and in stock. Tempted to do some profiteering 😎.
Seths bike hacks used Johnsons mineral oil with no apparent issues.
I just did my friends brakes last night, if I'd have known maybe I wouldn't have been so generous flushing his dirty fluid out.
Ive still got the oil fluid in a bottle. I might have to filter it and re use it at those prices 🤣
I filled a deore brake about 10 years ago with 3in1 oil, it’s still in regular use with no issues at all.
There’s nothing special about mineral oil.
I’ve been using up a bottle of Magura fluid in all my shimano brakes for about 3 years now with no issues.
When it runs out I’m going to try Baby oil.
Magura Royal Blood is £22 litre at Merlin.
I've a friend who ran her Shimano brakes on washing up liquid for a year, after an emergency on a weekend away.
Fairy is dead cheap.
Ive got a mostly full litre bottle in my garage and I dont even have any Shimano brakes.
Juice Lubes ?
How many brakes are you bleeding that you need a litre of the stuff?
I’m sure it gets oxygenated if you have it sitting around in the garage too long (I could be wrong, but my bottle of lhm is unusable now, I’ve had it so long)
Just to give you another option, I've been using Morgan Blue Mineral Oil on all my bikes for a few years, following a recommendation from my LBS mechanic.
I seem to have more reliable Shimano brakes than most other people on the internet, so it can't be any worse than the Shimano stuff.
Not recommended, but I once filled a Shimano system with water halfway down the Devil's Staircase due to a numpty popping a piston whilst fiddling with the brakes whist fixing a puncture. It worked enough to finish the ride and no-one died. It was VERY cold though (snow/ice).
IIRC Trickstuff use sunflower oil in thier mega ££££ brakes.
IIRC Trickstuff use sunflower oil in thier mega ££££ brakes.
Canola oil is the base, €40 a litre.
Is it just me that thinks it's just not worth messing with brakes and you should just follow the manufacturers instructions?
Not sure I've ever read the manufacturer's instructions for a set of brakes.
YouTube videos FTW these days.
Is it just me that thinks it’s just not worth messing with brakes and you should just follow the manufacturers instructions?
That sheet that tells you all the different ways the brakes might kill you, in 21 different languages, and then tells you to ensure your brakes are fitted by a professional mechanic on pain of death, but doesn't actually provide any useful information?
Given that a whole brake system (front and back) is less than 50ml and there's a 100ml bottle available for a tenner, that you might use every few years or so, why bother with a litre of the stuff?
I once filled an SLX brake with piss.
Actually no I didn't, it was LHM £6 from carparts4less at least designed for a similar job.
There’s nothing special about it despite what Shimano claim.
Special? Clearly not. Different? Maybe.
Something that irritates me is people mistaking cycnism for knowledge. It might be the same as something else, but it might not. You've been told that these mineral oil based products all have different additives and that some additives could damage the material the seals are made of, by the people who have specced the seals. So for the sake of a few quid (you don't need a whole litre!) I'm going to stick with Shimano.
Given that a whole brake system (front and back) is less than 50ml and there’s a 100ml bottle available for a tenner, that you might use every few years or so, why bother with a litre of the stuff?
You've missed the previous posts from the OP about how often his bike is being serviced haven't you?!
Given that a whole brake system (front and back) is less than 50ml and there’s a 100ml bottle available for a tenner, that you might use every few years or so, why bother with a litre of the stuff?
Because otherwise it'll probably be £500 a bottle next time the OP checks.
Shimano are pretty adamant that you shouldn’t use anything else. Hope. Well...just go for it.
Mineral oil can stay forever in the brake without regular changes.
Though air still gets past seals and they need bleeding eventually. Last time I bled Katie’s XTs after a few uplifted holidays the fluid was black and appeared to have particles floating in it!
TroutWrestler
Not recommended, but I once filled a Shimano system with water halfway down the Devil’s Staircase
How?
I’ve a friend who ran her Shimano brakes on washing up liquid
Must've been murder getting the bubbles out when bleeding!
Mineral oil can stay forever in the brake without regular changes.
It has a longer life yes - but wear particles do build up hence the need for fluid changes if you want a long life from them
Must’ve been murder getting the bubbles out when bleeding!
Internals would be spotless though!
Who needs a litre? Putoline does 125cc for £5.80. I use this in my mtb brakes & Moto Trials clutch for years... If your are stuck, give me a shout.
Internals would be spotless though!
And hands would be soft as your face.
Though air still gets past seals and they need bleeding eventually. Last time I bled Katie’s XTs after a few uplifted holidays the fluid was black and appeared to have particles floating in it!
As TJ say's
wear particles do build up hence the need for fluid changes if you want a long life from them
I've pulled a few failed levers apart and in every case the black gunk gets behind the master piston. I'm sure some fail for other reasons but this is the one I've seen.
It has a longer life yes – but wear particles do build up hence the need for fluid changes if you want a long life from them
From memory I had to flush quite a bit of clean fluid through to get it to come through clear so would use a lot more than the brake capacity to do a good refresh.
I used to have problems with my calipers pistons getting sticky and not retracting when using Citroen LHM from Halfords. YMMV.
I haven't tested it but maybe Magura's mineral oil would be a better stand in for the Shimano stuff.
Having had a number of the droppers I ended up with quite a lot of Reverb fluid and have used that in Shimano brakes for the last few years - I can't tell any difference. The Morgan Blue oil referred to earlier is sold by plenty of shops as specifically suitable for use in Shimano brakes. I'll probably try that when current stocks run out, just because it's a different colour!
Though air still gets past seals and they need bleeding eventually.
Just for context, what is "eventually" in this scenario? I mean, we're measuring it in years right? For instance none of my current bikes have needed re-bled/flushed and the Ragley I sold in the Spring still had perfect braking despite the brake system having been set up over a decade previously.
How does magura royal blood compare
if air gets past seals the seals have failed. Its microscopic wear particles generated internally and dust getting dragged past the seals
Scotroutes - it depends on usage not time really. the buildup of dirt and wear particles will accelerate wear unless bled thru with new fluid
Just for context, what is “eventually” in this scenario? I mean, we’re measuring it in years right?
Again with TJ.... crap seems to get in at the bottom .. timing is whatever. Usually "years" but I've seen <1 yr. Once the crap is behind the piston its probably scored the seal and then causes sticking.
Ive pulled out master pistons and cleaning the black gunk can sorta get them working except for the scratched piston seals...but way more hassle than just doing a full bleed every so often when it starts discolouring.
Re: using water
BITD there was a vogue in the trials community for bleeding Magura HS33s (also spec'd with mineral oil) with water. Mainly because we were all teenagers with no money and plenty of time for tinkering. You can also completely submerge the system (E.g. in a bath) for the best bubble-free bleed.
I can confirm it worked just fine - pretty well in fact. The lower viscosity gave a lighter lever feel. Cold weather / freezing was a genuine problem, though! Veg oil also worked well in a bind.
Anyway, now I'm all grown up I'll probably spend the extra few quid on proper fluid.
I would only ever bleed brakes if they needed it. Not as 'preventative maintenance' where I'm sure I'd do more harm than good.
would only ever bleed brakes if they needed it. Not as ‘preventative maintenance’
this echos my view, although everyone’s experience is different, and I bow before TJs experience of keeping things going waaaay beyond their expected lifespan. I’ve only ever bled brakes after swapping levers, shortening hoses etc.
Because I'm a retard and why I try and bleed brakes myself I spill a lot and use a lot more than I have to and it sometimes takes me multiple attempts to bleed my brakes. 100ml wouldn't last long!!!
I guess the solution is to buy the 100ml for £10 and wait until March when it will hopefully be cheap to buy 1 litre again, or take the bike to a mechanic for bleeding.
270 to 400% inflation on mineral oil in a year - ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL
I also have 3 bikes with Shimano brakes (Deore/SLX/Zee respectively) and I do 5000 miles a year off road (most of that is on an E Bike - the Turbo Levo) I'm not like some of the haters on here who hardly ride at all by comparison
nickc - I have the need to make stuff last ( econutterism) - but I don't use shimano at all because of the lack of spares for brakes and because the japanese turn albatrosses gay ( long story)
I expect never to buy any more brakes despite all my hopes being obsolete as all are interchangable and I have rebuild kits stashed
I also have 3 bikes with Shimano brakes (Deore/SLX/Zee respectively) and I do 5000 miles a year off road (most of that is on an E Bike – the Turbo Levo) I’m not like some of the haters on here who hardly ride at all by comparison
Still, once they are set up, they shouldn't need re-bled for several years.
Last bleed was in April on one system of brakes. Needed to do them again last week already.
scotroutes - in my book a dot fluid brake should have a fluid change annually and a mineral oil one every two years. thats to get rid of old contaminated fluid. I do not understand why people need to bleed so often - again if bled properly there is no way for air to get into the system so a rebleed should not be needed.
I haven't bled a brake apart from fluid changes for years
if air gets past seals the seals have failed
Is this true? I thought I'd read that nothing is *completely* airtight - hose, joins, seals etc all leak *tiny* amounts of air which builds up over time. Stuff gets hot, expands, gets cold, contracts.
With brakes I think it very much depends on the use you're giving them - if you're riding in the UK and you're longest, steepest hill is a few hundred metres vertical then you will get years out of them. We'd had trips out to La Palma and Pyrenees with uplifted riding and super steep 1000m++ descents. I completely cooked all the seals on my Hope E4's on the same trips.
Years ago I had to bleed a set of Hopes that had been completely fine in the south of the UK but the old man of Coniston was enough to lock them on (I seem to remember it was a steep tarmac road that did it)
But the SRAM guides on my hardtail needed bleeding after the summer and they've never done anything rad. One of the Shimano\s on my commuter bike really needs a bleed (but might have been shit from Canyon's assembly).
I haven’t bled a brake apart from fluid changes for years
And I haven't bled a brake apart from fitting for years.
Shimano Brakes of Love (Copyright Jedi), all like a 1 minute lever bleed with the funnel every few months. That's all you need to do. Uses maybe 20ml of fluid.
i guess if it looks discoloured during this, that's the time for a full flush, refill and bleed.
Is this true? I thought I’d read that nothing is *completely* airtight – hose, joins, seals etc all leak *tiny* amounts of air which builds up over time. Stuff gets hot, expands, gets cold, contracts.
No - it's not. Just above TJ stated that tiny particles of dust can be dragged past the seals and this was perfectly normal and indeed a reason for bleeding brakes, but air - no, that's a "failed seal". In reality, applied braking forces can slightly move the piston and deform the seal enough to trap a particle of air as easily as a particle of dust, it will then be crushed by the seal moving back to its normal position and dragged into the caliper during retraction. This is entirely normal, but equally entirely tiny.
Because I’m a retard and why I try and bleed brakes myself I spill a lot and use a lot more than I have to and it sometimes takes me multiple attempts to bleed my brakes. 100ml wouldn’t last long!!!
You're not trying to pour it direct from the 1L container into the reservoir are you?! Decant a bit into something like a measuring cylinder or a small beaker with a pouring lip on it. Then from there into the reservoir - ideally via a funnel. Bet you can get a small beaker and a small funnel in some poundshop or hardware store for a few pence - it'll save you spilling all the expensive mineral oil everywhere!
Still not sure how your brakes need bleeding this regularly, I recall we've been here before with the maintenance threads...
Out of curiosity, how often do folk bleed the brakes on their motorbikes, cars and vans?
Out of curiosity, how often do folk bleed the brakes on their motorbikes, cars and vans?
When I replace a part. Only reason my MTBs see more frequent bleeds is because I swap stuff about more.
No – it’s not. Just above TJ stated that tiny particles of dust can be dragged past the seals
Regular-ish full bleeds just get rid of the crap and any sucked in air as well. I'm still using 2015 levers and calipers mainly.
i guess if it looks discoloured during this, that’s the time for a full flush, refill and bleed.
tends to be my criteria... it really only takes a minute to check (faster than oiling a chain)
Out of curiosity, how often do folk bleed the brakes on their motorbikes, cars and vans?
Every year when I had my motorcycle as recommended - well the BMW anyway - the BSA has cable drums 🙂
Its on the annual service schedule IIRC
Does it say "gravel specific" on the bottle?
I recon it's about time I bled my 15 year old avids. Although no idea what fluid they take but seeing as it's a fully sealed system no air has got in yet.
Shimano Brakes of Love (Copyright Jedi), all like a 1 minute lever bleed with the funnel every few months. That’s all you need to do. Uses maybe 20ml of fluid.
i guess if it looks discoloured during this, that’s the time for a full flush, refill and bleed.
I completely agree that a quick lever-only bleed is a great way to get rid of (most of) any bubbles in the system, but only if the brakes aren't working right - it shouldn't be necessary to do that routinely. If your brakes need bleeding that often, there's a problem. And if you're in the (daft, IMO) camp of bleeding brakes for 'preventative maintenance' then that method is useless since you're only replacing a fraction of the fluid.
I don't usually bother with a lever-only bleed any more, I find a proper caliper-up bleed the best way to get a solid result.
Need to do one of my Zees though, so maybe I'll give it a try first.
Weird how some Shimano brakes just never need touching though. I had a set of Deore from 2014 which I got on a used bike and only ever wanted new pads.
Sold them last year still in perfect working order.
The problem I have withe Caliper-up bleed is that I struggle to draw mineral oil out of the 1 litre container into the Syringe with no Bubbles. It takes me AGES to finally get it bubble free.
Draw fluid into syringe.
Invert syringe so that the tube is at the top.
Squirt a little fluid out, expelling the air (you might want to tap the sides of the syringe a little to free any bubbles).
Apply tube to bleed nipple.
If there is little fluid left in the 1L container and the tube struggles to reach, then just decant some of it into something smaller. Whatever you don't use can be poured back in.
I’ve had 3 leaky Shimano callipers over the last few years all using Shiamano oil.
Get an oil analysis done to see what magic ingredient is in it! Mineral oil for hydraulic brakes has been around for decades so I don’t think any manufacture would put anything in it that would damage brake seals - it would be easy for them to check and replace any problems ingredients.
LHM for me too
What is it with Shimano and leaky calipers ?
I've gone through countless with Shimano Deore.
SLX and upwards no problems yet, but I've not been using the high end stuff for even a year yet