Which crank now?

Not entirely sure what you mean - but does it suggest the bottom bracket is not round, has a spur etc rather than the cranks being bad?

I run XTR 9000 cranks in a Hope btm bkt and it has been fine for 3+ yrs, although that bike hasn't been used much. The same btm bkt however was transferred from my previous builds and has had about 8 years riding with no problems.

For a new crank I'd be looking at whatever Shimano I could get at the right price - above SLX.

The Hope bearings run directly against the crank spindle. My non drive side bearing has scored the spindle such that it now moves… hard to explain without a photo.

if the bearing has worn into your BB axle then there will be some misalignment most likely in the BB shell of the frame, worth checking that out as otherwise in time you'll be in the same situation again.

It’s the same as this:

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/worn-hollowtech-axle/

I had this happen a bit on my XT cranks in a Hope BB. I went back to a Shimano BB.
Shimano plastic top caps on their BB cups seem like a good idea. Aluminium spindle in a steel BB race doesn't seem so good.

Edit: i only found the login box now after the redesign, seems odd being way down the bottom.

Does the XTR crank have a aluminium alloy axle? Thought perhaps it was steel like XT etc?

have you a push fit Hope BB or a screw in BSA?

the plastic bits on Shimano BB are there by design.

if using a BB were the bearing/axle run direct I would be using a thin smear of low strength engineering adhesive such as Loctite Bearing Fit (and allow it to fully cure before riding)

Shimano axles are cromo, so less prone to this issue than 30mm Alu axles, but any axle running directly on a bearing inner race is at risk of wear. Shimano BBs have the plastic top hats for this reason.

Ingrid

Ingrid are 30mm only afaik

I never thought it was a good idea to have direct axle contact with the bearing, the slightest bb shell misalignment can lead to scoring or reduced bearing life. The reason some people get a short life out of a bottom bracket is down to this just as much as dirt n water ingress.
I'd switch to a bb with plastic tophats.

This will probably be unpopular but I'd go with a SRAM one.

I've had more Shimano cranks fáil ón me in the past than SRAM.

GXP is fairly tolerant of a bit of misalignment. (although I have not used them with a hope bb though. you will need an adaptor).
So is HT2 with the HT2 bb inc the plastic top hats.

Sell the Hope BB and replace with a Shimano one and an SLX chainset.

They are a very reasonable weight and have the best fastening system, as you know.

I got the Hope BB for both bikes cos I was munching through Shimano ones so fast. Aaaaaand, the first Hope BB came with GXP adapters so I sold them on.

Ah the irony.

Been using RaceFace Aeffect in my Hope BB for a few years - might be seen as a downgrade on XTR though!

I’ve been looking at RaceFace, Middleburn, and a second hand good set of XTR9100s today. Or ditching the BB and trying a new set of 30mm whatever. There’s too many choices!

Don't go 30mm if there's misalignment in the bb. Stay 24mm, or if you want ultimate reliability, swap to square taper with a shimano sealed BB.

Sell the Hope BB and replace with a Shimano one

This as there's no way a BB bearing should be wearing out a crank axle, I'd suggest the Hope BB is at fault here.

Is the crank spindle worn evenly or is it worn more on one side?

Sod it, I reckon it's new bike time.

I've been using Shimano cranks and Hope BBs across multiple bikes doing big miles for the best part of 15 years now. First I've heard of this.

Can't help but feel that if the crank can move independently of the inner race of the BB bearing, you've got bigger issues that just a worn crank, and just swapping the BB and/or cranks isn't going to solve them. has the frame ever been properly chased and faced?

As a (very) bodge solution - bearing fit compound?

Sod it, I reckon it’s new bike time.

tempted.

Is the crank spindle worn evenly or is it worn more on one side?

More on NDS. I’ve rubbed it back with emery paper and oil.

has the frame ever been properly chased and faced?

Only from the factory. I just clean out the threads any time the cups are out.

Worth asking Hope for their opinion on the cause?

I sent an email to them earlier. They’ve just replied suggesting a bearing fit compound (think I might have some actually) or shaft replacement.

Father in law suggested turning down and shimming.

Is the crank spindle worn evenly or is it worn more on one side?

More on NDS. I’ve rubbed it back with emery paper and oil.

Sorry, I meant is it asymmetric on the spindle at the wear area?

Oh, no it’s all round.

Ok. Well given your crank is worn already, then bearing fit is worth a temporary fix. Then probably go shimano again (any) with the shimano bb.

F&$@ckety F&&@k!

New crank.

New bearings.

New frame!

Same problem again.

Clonking on drive side under full load.

Swapped bottom bracket from other bike. Still there.

Could it not be a frame bearing but you are feeling the movement through the pedals?

Edit: no you changed the frame.

Seat/post interface? Pedal bearing? Hub?

Nope. I can feel the play.

This as there’s no way a BB bearing should be wearing out a crank axle, I’d suggest the Hope BB is at fault here.

Metal to metal contact, if something is out of alignment the softer material is going to take damage, it's not the BB's "fault" sounds like the frame (especially if the OP had chewed through Shimano BB's previously).

The real answer is obvious: sent the frame to Hambini so he can swear about it for and hour on YouTube and then charge you a few hundred quid for an expensive BB 😉

So what is the new frame / new crank / new bb? If HT2 are you tensioning the bearings right before tightening the crank arm onto the spindle?

Seems an odd problem to repeat itself.

What components have you gone to, and what carried over from old bike?

Play in a brand new btm bracket, frame and crank suggests you have assembled it wrong, so the comparisons with the previous setup could be a red herring.

If there wasn't any play, I'd be looking at pedals and rear hub first, then headset / bars area.

If new frame and cranks, but bb shell is an old one with new bearings, is it a problem with the bb shell somehow?

new frame / new crank / new bb?

Rad Bikes replacing a Stanton.

XTR9100 (i think DM but with pinch bolts) replacing a XTR9000

New bearings in Hope BB, but also swapped to another same model BB...

Definitely isn't an assembly issue.

I'm thinking the bearing must be moving a tiny amount in the shell which is amplified by leverage at the end of the crank... on both BBs.

Will have to try a new Shimano BB to see if it changes anything I guess, assuming the axle isn't badly scored.

Have you tried torquing the pedals to the correct value? I used to just put them in and nip them up with a palm strike on the Allen key, but got a similar clonking to what you describe. It was fixed by tightening the pedals. Much more force required than I was using to reach the torque values. I did grease them first as I figure they’ll be a pain to take out later.

Does that Hope BB use some kind of too hat adapter it is that just the bodge to make it fit sram gxp?

All I can think is perhaps the preload adjustment hasn’t been quite right and so the crank has had a tiny bit of movement causing the wear and the clonking you are now getting. HT2 is genuinely a really decent system.

I think at this point if the crank doesn’t look too damaged I’d pick up a decent Shimano HT2 BB (maybe XT) and fit that and see how that goes. It seems an odd problem to have.

Might be worth getting a bike shop to face the BB shell before you fit the BB so you can be 100% sure the bb is perfectly aligned side to side.

Have you tried torquing the pedals to the correct value?

I thought about that too. I can feel the play if I force the cranks by hand without the pedal.

Does that Hope BB use some kind of too hat adapter it is that just the bodge to make it fit sram gxp?

That's just for the GXP. I think the Shimano option is a good one right now ... just annoying that they wear out so fast IME. Hopefully this crank isn't worn.

It seems an odd problem to have.

When I can hear it above the noise of my Aftershokz it's bloody annoying too!

Too much preload causing NDS bearing to bind and wear the axle possibly? Metal on metal seems like a bad plan to me.

Your insistence on using the Hope BB and Einstein's definition of insanity aren't to dissimilar 😁.
You might not be getting the preload right, might be worth seeing how others adjust theirs to compare, for example, how freely should the cranks spin without pedals on, how many revolutions should the cranks spin before coming to a stop.

I'm about to junk my 3rd set of GX cranks in 4 years because of axle wear.

I like GX - they are nice and stiff and acceptably light, but the failure mode on the axle when the bearings seize leaves you no way back because its a soft alu, and despite the correct torque on the crank bolt, its pretty easy to turn the cranks against the plastic spacer of the bearing instead of the bearing. Even a free running dub BB isn't exactly 'spinny' to start with so it can be difficult to tell.

It's not their fault specifically, but you only have to 'not notice' once and the axle is done, so the design isn't very tolerant of wear/damage when the whole thing is functioning sub-optimally.

I think the root cause is the dub BB design and is 2 fold. The support of the bearing in the cup is pretty minimal where it ties to the threaded section and results in unavoidable flex and moisture ingress from flexed/insufficient seals.

Interestingly, I have no such issues with the dub crank using a hope BB on my summer bike.

I'm shifting back to Shimano with their steel, nickel plated axles for the sake of a bit of resilience if/when it happens again. I still have a set of 2003 HT2 cranks running on my daughters bike. Presently, Shimano BSA Bbs can also be got for half the price of a dub BB. So running cost should be lower too.