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Looks like my Octavia VRS may be written off so potentially looking for a replacement. Criteria are manual, petrol, ideally more than 4 cylinders, able to cram 2 kids into the back, not too modern/less gadgets the better.
- BMW 130i/330i touring - sensible options
- Audi S3/S4 Avant - dull
- Alfa GT/GTV V6 - fwd, not sensible but that Busso v6...
- Ford Focus ST - don't really want one but after a recent thread it needed to be on the list
Hot hatch/estate would probably be the sensible route but it won't be our "family car" and won't be used daily as I work from home. Anything else worth looking at?
Evo? Choose the model from your budget?
Porsche 911. The one with the fried egg headlights are available for something approaching sensible money.
To be a true yob, it has to be a civic type R lookalike, with dull paint, a couple of scrapes/bashes, and no silencer whatsoever.
Even by my standards an Impreza or Evo is possibly a bit too much - if they imported the Evo wagon to the UK though I'd be very tempted.
Had a 130i and it was small, but awesome. Good be a very comfy easy to drive cruiser or a hooligan if you wanted it to. Now have a 56 plate 330 auto. Same engine and very different character due to the increased weight and size of car. It is not a yob car and the 330d has more torque, but the engine is still lovely and silky smooth etc.
Possibly rose tinted glasses, but I really miss the 130.
Love the extra space of the 330 even if it is not a big estate by any stretch of the imagination.
Both cars are failry rare especially if you want one in good condition, even more so a manual 330 touring. You could spend a year plus trying to find one.
I don't have any other suggestions as I can't find anything to replace the 330 with for when the time comes.
Porsche 911. The one with the fried egg headlights are available for something approaching sensible money.
My old man has a Cayman and my roadie neighbour has a 911 - can't be seen to be following either of them!
– Audi S3/S4 Avant – dull
Given the rest of your criteria, why would you be considering adding something 'dull' to your list?
Seat Leon Cupra worth a look.
Mrs had a 130i terrible car imo ive driven a fair few performance cars and that thing was bad... Emgine too heavy for a small car turn in was abysmal and id have my pal in his mk5 gti up my backside down the lanes. Only on the straights did it decide to shine but still other cars still kept up.
Subaru wrx sti imo cheap reliable and fast. The evos are good cars ive had 2 the fq 340 tuned to 480bhp and a tommy m edition to 420bhp only one issue with evos... The gearboxes. Had mine uprated clutch done etc and still had a couple of rebuilds on each. The fq had 5k on the clock all factory and that needed a rebuild (out of warranty) at 11k at a cost of 1400 quid.
Pal of mine just sold his type ra running 680bhp full coilovers running methanol spare track tyres etc and road daily usable for 5k so there are bargains to be had
Had a 130i and it was small, but awesome. ... <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">You could spend a year plus trying to find one.</span>
That is why I ended up with the VRS, spent a year looking for a good 330d touring with manual box and eventually gave up. Everyone I've spoken to loves their 130i, so good to hear another confirmation!
In your position i'd be thinking less "yob" and a bit more "Bond villian" and I'd buy a Jaguar XJR
Grace, space and pace.
Ford Focus RS for maximum council points.
You need to ditch the run flats on the 130 to get the grip and feel you would expect of that kind of car, but I never found the front end too heavy myself. It was difficult to drive 'fast' on bumpy roads, though, as it got unsettled, but on most roads it was fine and cornered very well.
B7 RS4 Avant fits the bill
Given the rest of your criteria, why would you be considering adding something ‘dull’ to your list?
Trying to be sensible? The 2.7 v6 s4 with a pair of K04 turbos would be quite fun, cheap and a bit of a sleeper though.
In fairness I'm not really thinking "yob", more the STW stereotype for cars that aren't slow, sensible, economical or quiet.
BMW 335i touring
Goes like the clappers and sounds awesome
can also be chipped to M3 power fairly easily I understand
V60 pacestar?
Trying to be sensible? The 2.7 v6 s4 with a pair of K04 turbos would be quite fun, cheap and a bit of a sleeper though.
In fairness I’m not really thinking “yob”, more the STW stereotype for cars that aren’t slow, sensible, economical or quiet.
Fair enough. I don't think they are dull, just wondered why you would describe them as such if you were considering them? It's not because you were afraid they would be labelled as dull by others is it?
i just bought a very sensible dad car but very nearly came home with a 8l S3 that was parked next to the one I bought.
A bit left field but how about that new model Hyundai hatchback. One went past me this morning and it made such a superb sound. The other plus point is that it's not a BMW.
I've got an ST estate and it's a great car, all that power through the front wheels means it goes through tyres pretty fast though. If I was doing a lot of miles a year I'd probably look elsewhere for that reason. If they made a RS estate I'd be all over that, yob stylings regardless!
Fair enough. I don’t think they are dull, just wondered why you would describe them as such if you were considering them? It’s not because you were afraid they would be labelled as dull by others is it?
No, more down to having owned a few other VAG cars and driven the S3. Thats my problem with the Skoda, it does (did!) everything really well but for some reason I never liked it as much as the car it replaced.
I've just bought a S4 B5 avant...with the 2.7 twin turbo. I've always hankered after something that is approaching classic status but still 'affordable' A good RS4 B5 is circa £20k and needs a small fortune to keep it that way.
I've tweaked a few things already...RS4 brakes, suspension & a custom exhaust which has improved things a bit more. Planning on a remap soon which will bring it into 911 beating territory. It sounds just amazing when you stamp on the loud pedal...I feel like a 20year old again!
The best part though (IMO) and as above, it's a sleeper...just looks like a old Audi avant.
However...it's not the most agile in the twistys...as someone else described it...it's like building a fast car and then strapping a rhino on the bonnet. I had a few geometry tweaks made which helped with the turn in a bit but I've got a few other mods to do to improve turn in even more...fatter rear ARB's and a 4:1 diff mod make the rear end more slidy whilst 'allegedly' improving turn in. IMO it'll never be as good as the slower but better handling A4 1.8TQS.
If you're into 'older' cars then good examples are getting more pricy and harder to find.
useles f*ing forum - how many refreshes do you need before you can see your edit ?
I’ve just bought a S4 B5 avant with the 2.7 twin turbo ...
Thanks for that, interesting read - it would be the S4 I'd go for but as you say it'd need the handling and brakes sorting before chasing a bit more power, as standard are they're about 250bhp which is less than my VRS has.
The b7 rs4 with the 4.2 v8 is a future classic if you can find one unmolested. Great car, nice and mechanical and significantly subtle when debadged. Manual as well and a fair few decent ones sub 20k, i almost bought a saloon to garage (I have a b8 anyway). The B5 twin t is also quite nice but v dated now.
I think the UK models were 265bhp as standard but it's not all about the numbers...don't forget the older B5 S4's are relatively light compared to some of the newer more modern cars out there...thus giving it a very respectful power to weight ratio.
What's really surprised me is the drivability in terms of the torque on tap at such low revs. If you check out the audisrs forum what becomes obvious is the preference of the S4 over the RS4 in terms of being everyday drivable and the usable torque from a low 1.5k rpm. Off the line the S4 is noticeable quicker but when over the 3.5k rpm mark the bigger turbos on the RS4 take over. There's a lot of debate over going to a KO3 hybrid as opposed to KO4. RS4 top end pace with lower rev torque appears to be the elusive golden egg.
I'm not sure what your age/£££ criteria are but....
- if you want something relatively new why not the Golf R estate. Seem to be loads of em around due to some very competitive PCH deals, so that should filter through to used prices at some point
- if age less important, how about the VXR8. You want yobbery - just listen to one of those beasts! £20k seems to get you a decent one.
A guy I ride with has got one of these:
Only found out the other day that the dealer had left if in 'showroom mode'.
Turned it off, extra 200+bhp I'm led to believe.
I think the UK models were 265bhp as standard... <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> There’s a lot of debate over going to a KO3 hybrid as opposed to KO4. </span>
Very true, I've a light weight awd track car with give or take the same power but feels night and day different to the VRS.
Same debate with the tfsi crowd, I was going to go K03 hybrid route when the time came - bit less work, good power gain and arguable better low end punch.
Think I might have to go have a drive of one...
Emgine too heavy for a small car turn in was abysmal
I've not found that in a 1 series. In fact that doesn't compute, Heavy engine should make turn in better (especially seeing as though BMW manage to put the engine behind the front wheels, unlike Audi)
Sounds more like you were going in to corners too quick rather than slow in, fast out (the whole point of a rwd car)
Toyota GT86, will get kids in the back, and drives better than most of those above.
If your after a cheap hack then the Audi A3 3.2 fits the bill as everyone is scared of them because of the fuel bills, I have had one for a couple of years, dull handling which even changing the suspension didn't fix, but a real sleeper & available form about £1500, a good one nearer £5k.
I did a thread when I bought mine https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/just-bought-a-10-yo-audi-a3-32-dsg-will-i-die-in-dept/
I bought a Typre R to replace it but it was a bit to much of a yob car to use every day so went back to the Audi.
Cheers.
Mercedes A43 AMG?
Golf R/R32 depending on budget.
A Megane RS 265
Mrs had a 130i terrible car imo ive driven a fair few performance cars and that thing was bad… Emgine too heavy for a small car turn in was abysmal and id have my pal in his mk5 gti up my backside down the lanes. Only on the straights did it decide to shine but still other cars still kept up.
Heavy Engine!?? You must be kidding, its pretty light, being a Magnesium Alloy. Turn in isn't great as standard, add some camber and it turns in very well. 50/50 weight distribution also helps, the whole car is 50kg more than a Z4C. Not a car I would choose with 2 kids, but I guess it depends how much luggage, age of kids, etc. Although they are pretty cheap, especially if you don't want all the gadgetry. If it helps, I can fit 2x 29'ers inside with the wheels off and seats down.
BTW: It's defo a "yob" car, if I had a pound for every driver that insisted on pushing me along the road... I would have enough to pay for the waterpump that has just gone! 😉
get a 2012 - 2014 C63 AMG estate. I bought one in Feb, amazing car!
Goes like a rocket ship but can still take bikes in the back or on the roof.
(keep in that age bracket to avoid the head bolt issues)
Last of the great V8's 🙂
Some helpful reviews by some mates,
135i's
Focus Rs
bigphilblackpool
Member
Mrs had a 130i terrible car imo ive driven a fair few performance cars and that thing was bad… Emgine too heavy for a small car turn in was abysmal
Having owned a 130i - there must've been something very wrong with it's suspension if you got that kind of feel from it.
1. The engine sits well behind the front wheels, and the car has near perfect weight balance so shouldn't be nose heavy.
2. The N52 engine is only 10kg heavier than the N40 (4 cylinder petrol)
and id have my pal in his mk5 gti up my backside down the lanes. Only on the straights did it decide to shine but still other cars still kept up.
3. It uses the E90 suspension so its ride is appalling on the standard runflat tyres. Replacing with either Michelin runflats or ditching the runflats all together will cure it.
Having had mine on Castle Comb several times, I can tell you that whilst a MK5 Golf may keep up round the corners, it'll only be doing so because you're intentionally going sideways 🙂
Rx8? Might not be yobby, but isn't far off the pace and probably handles more nicely than the other candidates. Cheap to buy, pricy to run
Honda Accord Type R, Find a good one and look after it and you wont lose any money on it either, Fits you criteria with 4 seats, a bit of pace and pretty Gadget free.
Or look for a Alfa 147GTA, bit of a rare beasty and very different from most of the above, looks great too.
Or look for a Alfa 147GTA, bit of a rare beasty and very different from most of the above, looks great too.
Would love one, my old man had a 156 GTA when they came out, hell of a car at the time - I'd want the 156 Sportwagon but they only made something daft like 100 right hand drive cars if I remember rightly.
Megane RS 265
This. I only had a 225 with the cup chassis but would have loved an RS.
Or even one of the current Renaultsport Clios. Not as fun as the old 197 by all accounts but still a hoot.
A bunch of people have said the same thing about the BMW 1 - that the chap with the 'terrible' 130 must have had something wrong, and I will back them up....
Nice and light, with an unstressed straight six - try to find a 135i for a turbo with 300bhp. Loads of tuning stuff available for them if you want to get silly. It is quite small, but it's easilly Golf sized inside.
As a few peole have said, ditch the run flats (unless you find a unicorn one specced without them), and maybe consider some suspension changes and a slightly more agreesive exhaust to let the straight six shine!
On the run flats - new ones are so waaaaay better than even just 5 years ago - I've had the Potenzas and Eagle F1s recently. But I still think I'd swap them out, even if just for price in the long run - Eagle F1s on my current M140i are £180 a corner....
What's your budget?
The E90 M3 in saloon form rather than coupe is a very nice car to drive, a proper yob if you take it by the scruff and drive it properly (you need to REV it,but when you do, it's a quick car):
just subtle enough to not call attention to yourself when you don't want it, fun enough when you do!
BTW, make you sure check for the folding rear seat option, as a surprising number of the saloons don't have it, which makes fitting a bike in the back a pita! (the coupes have it as std iirc, but the coupes are less rare and look a lot worse (the saloon carries the art of the rear tyre to wheelarch fit to perfection, and the bulk of the extra roof height at the back makes it sit much better on the road)
A bunch of people have said the same thing about the BMW 1 – that the chap with the ‘terrible’ 130 must have had something wrong, and I will back them up….
In fairness he also said modified Subarus were reliable... took it all with a pinch of salt.
Middle age yobby-ness
6.2 Handbuilt German NA Engine 460 BHP
0-60 4.6 seconds
Rear wheel drive
Estate so get kids, dog and bike in
Supercar performance for £26k 👍 that just looks like another black Merc estate.
As many boxes as that Marc ticks it’d be quite a stretch, I can see the insurance payout taking a while and turning out to be peanuts.
Having had the Skoda wiped out by a van and knowing I’ll be putting kids in the back I’m swaying towards cheap and cheerful!
What kind of budget roughly?
Tiger - that thing only does 25 mpg ! And quick is in a straight line, but it’s a Merc so will disappoint when you get to the first corner !
It’s a 6.2l V8 it won’t do 25mpg! I think you be lucky if you got to double figures.
but the brief didn’t say sensible, economical and tracklike handling
it said ‘Yob’
What kind of budget roughly?
5-10k I guess, having seen first hand the destruction of transporting kids (and bikes!) I'd feel guilty spending any more.
get a 2012 – 2014 C63 AMG estate. I bought one in Feb, amazing car!
Goes like a rocket ship but can still take bikes in the back or on the roof.
(keep in that age bracket to avoid the head bolt issues)
Last of the great V8’s
And what a noise it makes when you fire it up! I drove a saloon version a while back, only had it for about an hour, and I was very careful and behaved myself, but the temptation to behave like a hooligan was almost overwhelming. Bloke at a posh car dealer in Saltash I was picking up a Merc from leased one for a couple of years, he was £10k worse off and no car to show for it at the end, 17 to the gallon, three sets of tyres at £1000/set, nearly £500/month lease and then there was the £480 fine when he passed a cop car which was coming onto the M5, which he saw at the last second out of the corner of his eye and anchored up, but it was far too late... They showed him the video with their car rocking as he went past, and advised him to fess up to 99 mph*, as the couldn’t get a full lock onto him for long enough, which he did. A posh hooligan car, and no mistake.
*120 was what he was actually doing. A very naughty boy indeed.
Another vote for a 130i. Performance exhaust and golf tee mod (google) on it +20 yob points.
Ive a 130i le and the noise alone turns heads. Comfortable, handles well once you sort the tyres. Surprisingly practical, even though mine is only 4 seats. Bikes fit in the back, I’ve got racks for the roof if I need more space in it. I am considering the 330i, but only because I’ve need of the extra space for DIY purposes.
Some that have peaked my interest...
Subaru Legacy GT Spec B - curve ball though Mrs FTS fancies an Impreza 😆
If you are look at B5 S4s I would have a look/read on audisrs in the B5 section and the classifieds. A B5 will normally need a bit of money spent now to bring it up to scratch, then I would want to mod it, even just remap/suspension/brakes, but that would rapidly descend into K04s + supporting mods and a rear LSD for me.
Girl at my work has a 130i.
she loves it, says it goes like stink.
I must admit I’m quite envious.
Just when I was looking to offload my 1 series to a family estate this thread appears... Maybe a couple more years moving from a 120d to a 135i then...
I have a 130i SE it's now on 142,000 miles of which I've put on nearly half and I absolutely love it. Because mine is a SE it has 17" wheels (rather than 18") and standard (rather than sports) suspension. This means that the ride is good even with run flats. The 17" wheels and standard suspension means that it definitely doesn't have "yob" looks which is a big plus for me. It took me a while to find a SE model (I think they only ever sold about 100 in the UK), but was definitely worth it for me.
I would have enough to pay for the waterpump that has just gone!
I had a water pump fail earlier this year - it's the only failure, fingers crossed, that I've had so far. Expensive to replace though.
What about a nice Subaru Forester STi, if the lady likes a Impreza then it might be a good fit.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subarut-Forester-Sti/183235682416?hash=item2aa9b2a070:g:nFMAAOSww1Fa3NzN
What about a Holden?
I know they’re technically Vauxhalls but they do shift.
Well I used to have a Focus ST, the old 2.5l version, and I now have the 330i touring. The BMW is every bit as quick, if not quicker, quieter, more comfortable, more economical (they are 2l 4 cylinders these days). But there are days when I miss the sound of the T5 engine and the torque steer.
Oh the boot is about the same size as the focus but at leat I can have a tow bar now.
I swear my car dealer follows me on STW. Today he has phoned me with a 2013 hugely (and I mean nothing left off the is list) specced 2013 135i in Estoril Blue and - because I was wanting more comfort it includes the adaptive suspension.
Thats put me in a spin. 3 years of having a mid life crisis or do I get a C class estate now and resign to graceful motorway cruising now lol...
I’m really enjoying all the love the 130i’s are getting. Makes me more sure it was the best choice for my first car 😬
Downside being it’s making it even harder for me to part with mine...
Also, that 142,000 mile remark gave me even more confidence in the car.
That Autotrader 130i looks ok at a quick glance. Price seems ok, assuming there’s nothing wrong with it. The mods done to it seem pretty choice as well. Inkeeping with the car and similar to what I’ve done/Intend to do to mine. If you look on Babybmw.net there’s half a chance you’ll be able to find a lot more info about that exact car; maybe even speak to the owner or read a build thread about it.
The lemon interior isn’t as hard to keep clean as you’d imagine, it’s fairly unique and quickly grows on you.
If you buy it and want any help spending money on it when you do, I’ll be glad to offer my advice....
One thing I would say, it’s worth waiting for the right one. They’re not common but there’s enough about so you can have your pick.
Just buy it Kryton. Sweet baby Jesus please just buy it!
And then post pictures because it does sound nice!
Yep, I'm going to, I've decided. You can't get a higher spec on a 1 series, this is likely closest chance on an "M" type car before I get to mid-life mediocrity. I await a scathing post from Edukator.
Now to find a way to negotiate on the ridiculous interest rate BMW offer...
Pictures inbound in a few weeks I hope...
6.3 AMG - 25 MPG!
A customer of ours, who is involved in Truck sales regularly gets lower MPG in his AMG than the trucks he sells regularly achieve...
AMG probably more fun than a truck though..
I have an AMG C63 estate. It's an amazing car. Planning on selling it at the end of July...
I absolutely bloody loved my m135i - would have another in a heartbeat. I testdrove a 130i around the same time actually. The m135i is a much meaner car, better sound, more aggressive throttle response and felt a bit more sharper on the turn in (NB comparing a new car vs 6yo /70k). I'm sure the 130i is a good little car though.
at least we are getting back towards yobbo with c63 rather than slightly naughty looking but bland. 😀
£2k gets you this Volvo V50 T5
2.5l, 5 cylinders , 4WD, estate.
High mileage, but for £2k it could be fun and seems to tick a few of your boxes.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323269673343
6.3 AMG – 25 MPG!
As I’ve already posted, a bloke I spoke to at a car dealer owned one for two years, he reckoned 17/gallon.
Which seems perfectly reasonable, my Puma managed 30, if I behaved myself and drove like my gran. 25 per if I drove ‘enthusiastically’. That had a 1.7 Zetec.
I have the same car in identical spec Kryton, however I’ve had mine modified so it’s now around 420bhp. It’s pretty much undriveable and I wish I’d saved my money. In standard form they’re flippin ace, you’ll not be disappointed
On the contrary Kryton, I'm sure you'll enjoy unleashing the extra power on your next trip to Cwm Carn and you've helped a BMW salesman with his bonnet commission:
I’m sure you’ll enjoy unleashing the extra power on your next trip to Cwm Carn
Good shout, just go north out of Cwm Carn instead of heading for the M4.
Just back from my first drive in the 1.7 diesel Kia Optima hire car I've been given... it won't be added to the list. Unfortunately neither will the AMG above, won't be the budget for that.
Well, that was short lived. Dealer made an excellent offer but a cautious review of my company allowance policy reveals no non-hybrid petrols allowed . Sigh .