I'm in the market for a full sus 29.
Last time I looked, I was an All Mountain bike rider. Its been a while, but it seems its now Trail or Enduro. And really its based around travel, in increments of 10mm.
Crazy ass prices and nonavailability are ruling out a New bike.
What used bike should I be considering? What is the old 'All Mountain' these days? What needs avoiding?
I'm moving from an Orange Crush 27.5 cos I'm old and my back hurts after a big ride. Peaks, Lakes, Wales riding. Cant jump, wont jump.
I have a shortlist in my head, but interested to see what your thoughts are before revealing them.
D
Nobody rides all of mountains anymore.
You want Aggressive Trail/Soft Enduro.
😉
Just buy the one that looks nice and tell everyone it's an xdowntrailenduro bike.
AM = enduro
AM = enduro
Shirley not.
I thought AM was trail..
Clearly I need a new bike.
All Mountain is basically trail or enduro now, basically just pick a bike that suits you just now, if it's wheels on ground stuff, then trail, if it's gravity defying stuff, enduro.
Reality is that 'All Mountain' back in t'day was just XC bikes with slacker headtubes and more travel, usually with some horror look (maverick, etc) or geometry (ellsworth and many others), i don't miss the 'if we mess about a bit we can get it up to 5" of travel' days, much prefer the bikes now ;o)
Shirley not.
I thought AM was trail..Clearly I need a new bike.
Yeah, Freeride was the old Enduro!
🙂
Names! I want names!
There are dozens and dozens of great bikes out there - at the moment it comes down to availability, price and spec. Secondhand there’s the durability issue (like Orange make some great bikes but go back a few years and they had a lot of failures). How tall are you? How much dropper travel and reach do you want?
I have long legs for my height so on older bikes I can size up for more reach and still fit a decent length dropper in.
Secondhand Bird AM9 is probably a good bet!
Oh, I thought All Mountain was now Down Country?
Downcountry
Tallboy Trail or downhillers XC bike 130 -120mm
Hightower AM down country 150- 140mm
Megatower Enduro smasher 160 160mm
The later climbs almost as well but offers a little more when things get out of hand .. There arnt many bad 29ers out there now just make sure you dont short change yourself
If you like Oranges, the Stage 6 is their all-mountain bike really - despite what their marketing might have said about it being an enduro bike.
If you're interested in a 2018 large (fits like a modern medium), drop me a line.
😀
IMHO 100-120 is xc.
120-130 down country.
130-150 trail.
150-170 enduro.
170-180 super enduro, milder DH.
180+ DH.
Am defunct.
AM = trail or enduro bike with 140-150mm rear travel and front travel not exceeding 160mm. Something that treads the boundary.
Bird AM9, Stumpjumper EVO, Ibis Ripmo, Canyon Spectral, Orbea Occam, Deviate Highlander, Commencal Meta TR.
Privateer 141 too heavy.
Commencal Meta AM is a 170/160 enduro bike.
I just bought a Bird Zero 29 with a 120mm fork.
A 64 degree head angle with that fork n
Does that make it an XC Enduro Hardtail?
Or just a bike.
Anyway the Aether9 or the AM9 wouldn’t be bad choices. I think probably the Aether9 given the way my son can throw one around.
(Yes a lot of Birds in there, but having been a Orange rider for years, I’m just really impressed with how they ride, the flexibility of specification and the price - it’s what Orange used to do 20 years ago)
you seem to be bang on the border between downcountry and upduro
that means you can have a coil shock but the spring has to be black
I feel fully justified in being confused.
So are you saying you ride fairly chunky terrain but you aren’t going to be doing big jumps and drops? Needs to be all day comfy but not fast like an xc bike?
If so there are literally loads of bikes that will do that - anything from 130-160mm travel in all likelihood.
On the lower travel end I reckon:
Bird Aether 9
Nukeproof Reactor 290
Cotic Flaremax / Jeht
Vitus Escarpe (newest one)
Santa Cruz Tallboy (newest one)
Trek Fuel EX
Sonder Evol 29er
Then maybe a bit burlier:
Bird AM9
Ibis Ripmo
Canyon Spectral
Transition Sentinel
YT Jeffsy
Santa Cruz Hightower (newest version)
Privateer 141 (quite heavy)
Commencal Meta TR (quite heavy)
I’ve had good experiences with Bird bikes - had an Aeris 145LT and an Aether 7. Wanted an Aether 9 to replace the 7 but they were out of stock at the time. Was thinking about a Nukeproof reactor 290 but they were out of stock in alloy frame sets and the carbon was too expensive. Bought a 2022 alloy Transition Sentinel and I love it. Maybe on the burly end of things for your uses at 34lbs built up fairly lightly. The carbon version has a much lighter frame but it’s £££.
Thinking the Reactor 290 could be a good option for you both in downhill ability / cost to buy. The spectral is quite a lot more travel but you might find those with good spec for the money and they seem to be well liked by owners.
@joebristol awesome list thank you.
Jeffsy, Hightower and Fuel have been what I’ve been looking out for. Will take a look at the Transition.
Lots of love for Bird in this thread. A friend rides one but I’ve not paid much attention.
Orange Five (coz you are supposed to recommend what you own). TBF mine hasn't seen a mountain.
Bird defo worth a look. Aether is a really good allrounder - the AM9 adds a bit more travel and probably edges the Aether for steep tech. The AM9 and Sentinel 2022 probably have similar intentions.
If you could find a Reactor 290 that should be in budget - the carbon one is pretty nice.
I considered the Hightower AL vs the Sentinel alloy vs the Ripmo alloy. I think the Ripmo probably climbs the best, the Hightower is technically the plushest rear suspension - the Sentinel has the most aggro geometry.
I did consider a Fuel Ex but couldn’t find an al one Frameset only. The carbon one is a very sleek looking frame.
If looking at the Jeffsy then the Spectral is pretty similar I believe.
I'd ask @weeksy...reckon he's ridden more bikes than the STW editorial team combined 🤔😉🤣 (PS, I was wondering where 'all mountain' had gone too. I seem to remember AM being a moniker on lots of things like wheels etc.)
PS, I was wondering where ‘all mountain’ had gone too
I think it went snowboarding
'Upduro' first time I've heard that one! Hehe
The new Canyon Spectral is probably the best bang-for-buck in this segment IMO.
In terms of geometry combined with spec.
You want Aggressive Trail/Soft Enduro.
Yes, agrrail or soduro.
I think the word you want these days is trail.
I'll join in the Bird recommedations - for an Aether 9 - as the happy current owner of 2 Bird bikes.
While I don't think I'm good enough or have ridden enough differnet bikes to truly pass judgment on the ride quality, I think its good.
But add on the excellent customer service and the custom speccing and/or ability to buy frame only. (really, you only need a frame, fork and wheels?) and they are hard to beat.
If not, anything on the first half of Joe's list looks like the sort of thing you want.
It's just marketing bollocks though isn't it.
I still describe myself as trail hacker but always (and still do) rode AM style bikes that could do everything with a bit of a bias to gravity.
Given that Enduro these days is DH stage racing with a bike to match, I'm certainly not an enduro rider, but I'm not really an 'XC-plus' trail rider either.
I just choose a bike appropriate to my needs and ride it. Currently thats an Aether 9c with fox 36 and X2 and it seems bang on.
Birds are very hard to beat for an all rounder UK bike.
I found the AM9 a bit of a barge at below warp factor 5 when I did a test ride. It did have very, very heavy tyres on it mind.
Aether 9 looks like much more of an all-rounder.
That being said, I agree the Spectral does look rather good. But both you base specs 125/160mm are pretty heavy and the 125 Al5 fork isn't great.
If your budget is over 3k you'll be fine.
Yup, my Slayer is a DH bike that you can pedal uphill. The 180/170mm travel is simply a skill compensator. 🙂
It’s just marketing bollocks though isn’t it.
I think it went snowboarding
Dammit!
Although, I did notice the words all mountain in the description of the Vitus Escarpe!
I'll tell you what, that Spectral 125 Al6 looks like the smart pick:
Sensible tyres
Full slx groupset
Good fork and shock combo
I can't see the Aether beating that. Geometry very similar.
I like my Bird, but if it was my money, that's what I would get.
Or maybe that new Airdrop that just landed....
I'd perhaps consider the low BB against the Birds as an AM bike. Between 5-10mm lower than most of the other options that have been mentioned.
How much money you got and what are your normal trails like?
Privateer 141 too heavy.
Too heavy for what?
The new airdrop does look fun to be fair.
For me I’d prefer the seat tube to be a little shorter / steeper but it’s still fairly short, relatively slack HA, sensible length chainstays.
I like the price of the frame with db coil il for £1399.
It’s 27.5” though - bet it’s fun but perhaps not as fast over big rocky terrain as a similar 29er. Depends what you’re after though. It would probably be a riot on the flow trails at somewhere like Bike Park Wales - similar ish to the Aether 7.
I've had *quite* a few bikes in the 'trail' category. For my riding ability and most of the stuff we ride there (FoD - there is loads of harder stuff of course), I reckon a modrnl Geo, reasonably light FS is perfect. I tried a few 😉 I used my RipMo often but it felt a bit too much bike a lot of the time. So I kept looking for the perfect 'trail' bike between that and my Hardtail.
That included 27.5 Bird 120, 27.5 Occam, 27. Mojo4. 29 Ripley, Original MK1 'chubby' FlareMax and a Smuggler. I think it might have been me but not the bikes, even so.
Eventually I've ended up with my Revel Rascal. 140/130. 65ish HA, slightly too slack seat angle, Pike Ultimate on the front, New Fox Float on the back. 2.5/2.4 tyres comes in at about 30lb. Light enough to do the 'one more big hill before we finish', way capable enough to ride anything I want to try, fab suspension design for everyday riding, not great mud clearance.
I'm happy with those compromises. As it was I just wasn't riding my RipMo anymore. So I bought a Giga to give me lots of points of differentiation!
It’s just marketing bollocks though isn’t it.
Ssssshhhhhh, no one wants to hear that
my default response is Cube Stereo.
Not silly slack, good suspension, tidy prices.
I’m happy with those compromises. As it was I just wasn’t riding my RipMo anymore. So I bought a Giga to give me lots of points of differentiation!
You are a man after my own heart Alex.
Change one bike and it inevitably sets off a domino effect because the other points on the spectrum have moved.
😀
It’s just marketing bollocks
All-mountain was marketing bollocks from 10 years ago, and was actually reasonably useful in that you could ride them up and down a mountain or round your local woods and they were pretty good everywhere.
'All Mountain' at least reasonably descriptive as the to the aim of a bike in this category.
'Down Country' utter marketing buloxshizzle. What is Down Country? Do they mean Southerners? Just a bike they've added different stickers and a grand to the price?
I await 'Mullet Country' bikes.
If it's secondhand and AM and Orange you're after then I reckon you need the Five frame I'm about to list for sale 😉
Or an Aether 9, which is the reason the Five is for sale
Lots of Alu bikes in this list.
I want carbon this time round.
What is Down Country?
Bikes for folk in the South Downs. Or maybe the north ones. It’s a little ambiguous.
If I ever get a trail dog I'm going to call it Country.
Just so I can shout Down Country when it jumps up at people on XC bikes with a longer fork.
I think it's just called playing on a bike, perhaps "mountain biking" if you are in adult company. Anything else is marketing BS 😎
I tested a Reactor 290 & a (Bird) AM9 before settling on the AM9. I felt it pedaled much better than the reactor despite the extra travel.
I was tempted to wait for the Aether 9A (it wasn't out at the time), but after a couple of fun days at Dunkeld I went for the AM9. Also glad I didn't wait as I think the reach has gone too-long for my riding.
As has been mentioned though, tyre choice will make a bigger difference than a bit more/less travel.
Also, Bird customer service, rightly IMO, has a reputation for being 2nd to none.
my default response is Cube Stereo
A Stereo 140 is not to be found in the UK as far as I can see (having checked 4 websites haha). Bike 24 have them but don't ship them to UK 🙁 they look lush
It’s just marketing bollocks
Well, yes and no. It's helpful to categorise bikes so you know what to buy or look for, but where does useful categorisation end and marketing bollocks begin? There has to be some marketing bollocks otherwise every bike conversation would be:
"I'd like a bike, please, to ride where I ride"
"How much travel would sir like?"
"Travel?"
"Oh, do you mean the 'bikes with squirly handlebars' bikes? For use on tarmac."
"No, I need something that's a 24" frame because I'm over-estimating my height, and I ride in the woods, so I need something like Steve Peat rode, in his competitions."
"Ah yes, his riding down the hill competitions.... have a look at this....."
Carbon wasn’t something mentioned in the initial brief I don’t think.
Reactor 290 can be bought in carbon as can the Bird Aether 9C. Same for the spectral and Jeffsy and Fuel Ex.
If you’re slightly budget limited (you mentioned possibly having to buy secondhand) then wanting carbon doesn’t necessarily help you cause.
I always worry about internal damage to carbon on secondhand bikes that can’t be seen as it’s not obviously crash damage. Some companies provide a manufacturers warranty that can be passed onto a second owner of the bike is sold.
Nukeproof definitely don’t have this as I looked at a secondhand reactor frame so I ruled it out unless really cheap.
Bird do have this on their alloy bikes - I assume they do the same on their carbon ones.....as long as it’s less than 2 years old. Doesn’t cover crash damage obviously. Not sure about trek / canyon / yt with their warranty offering.
Some brands carbon isn’t much lighter than alloy, but others are very different. I know my Sentinel alloy is a chunk heavier than the sentinel carbon - but with the Bird Aerher I think there’s only about a 300-400g difference in the carbon vs alloy.
Privateer 141 too heavy.
Too heavy for what?
Its a great bike to ride. Not heavy at all and long trips and on the way down you can huck some pretty big stuff.
Short travel 29er? All the bike you’ll ever need if coming from a HT for the terrain you describe riding. (Whispers it) I reckon a short travel 29er is the ideal bike for the vast majority of UK trail riding.
Just had an email from Vitus introducing their 2022 range!! The Escarpe deffo mentions the words All Mountain in both 29 & 27.5 flavours!!! This AM mularkey is making a comeback I tell you. (No idea whatsoever what AMP stands for in their model names though.)
Privateer 141 too heavy.
Too heavy for what?
Normally wouldn't care about weight much, but for riding actual mountains there's a fair chance it's going to be carried at times, the 1kg over many other options might matter. Similarly for my comment about low BBs.
I know for a barely used Orange Alpine in Large that a mate needs to move due to his back giving out. An Alpine must be All Mountain by definition, shirley?
