I had a Sun 11-46 on my 2010 Blur but it never changed gears well, I tried a WolfLink thingy, but the derailleur is much too far from the smaller cogs.Strangely enough, the New Shimano one does exactly the same.
Given that, despite what ChatGPT says, I cannot see a headset that will work with my tapered 27.5 forks on this 1.125" straight headtube frame,I need a new (old)frame.
What do I need to know to ensure that a new frame is compatible with this cassette? Im sick of chainslip etc when trying to get up a slope
26"frame is probably better option fro me
What makes you think the frame is at fault with your shifting?
Don't get me wrong but I'm pretty comfortable saying I think you're looking in the wrong place. (It could be the mech hanger I suppose but replacing the frame to solve that sounds drastic)
Oh, so far as I'm aware there is no way to get a tapered fork in a 9/8 headtube. The lower cup would need to be about 2" tall.
TBH, without a looksee at the mech and cassette, no ones got a clue what you're talking about and where the issue might be!
if the headtube is a 44mm headtube you used to be able to get headsets with an external lower cup to run a tapered headset in.
I'm guessing this is a question about wide range 10s cassettes that needed a mech hanger extension to work as 10s mechs weren't made for such a large range, that ultimately results in a lack of chain wrap and slipping? Swapping frames won't solve that.
I think the only real answer is re-assess the budget and get a proper group set. E.g. Deore can be had for £150. And aside from the weight of the cassette is a really good group set.
I'm running tapered steerer forks in 2 bikes that previously had straight steerer forks in them. I changed the lower headset cup to an external one and it works fine.
As above though, that's because the head tube is 44m and used internal cups before hand.
yes its a 10speed. The 10speed XT long cage rear mech works ok on the biggest 3 cogs, but otherwise
results in a lack of chain wrap and slipping
fest
The Bscrew wont go in further without getting the cage caught in the cogs
How would a new groupset change things? Are you saying frames havent changed to fit larger cogs?
Would a 12 speed derailleur be any different?
And the headtube is 34internally
Newer 11 and 12 speed rear mechs are designed for 50t cassettes or more.
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-m5100-rear-derailleur-11-speed-265337.html?
Sounds like chain length, bent hanger or even cable tension to me..🤷♂️
Are you saying frames havent changed to fit larger cogs?
Why would they? The cassette doesn't interact with the frame.
The mech geometry changes based on the "best fit" to the nominal cassette it's designed to work with.
Newer 11 and 12 speed rear mechs are designed for 50t cassettes or more.
will 11/12 speed derailleurswork wit 10 speed chain/and shifters?
will 11/12 speed derailleurswork wit 10 speed chain/and shifters?
Work? Maybe. Work well? Not really. The pull is similar but not the same, if (big if) I recall there's about half a sprocket of shift difference between shimano 10 and 11.
Given your problem stems from trying to bodge together things which don't work would you not be better off just doing it properly?
As above a deore group is about £150 which is also surely less than replacing your blur? (or which ever frame you're now trying to match to an incompatible fork)
Do you just need a goatlink or similar?
have used a 12spd mech on a 11spd 51 cassette with zero issues
As above a deore group is about £150 which is also surely less than replacing your bl
How would a new groupset make any difference? Do you mean 11speed?
I want it to work properly
Dont shimano make a 10speed derailleur to work with their 10speed cassettes?
oldnpastit
Full Member
Do you just need a goatlink or similar?
He's already done that with a Wolf link
How would a new groupset make any difference? Do you mean 11speed?
I want it to work properly
Your drivetrain isn't working properly, new drivetrain will fix it. Your current approach has you changing the frame for something not related to the frame
Your drivetrain isn’t working properly, new drivetrain will fix it.
new drivetrain wont change anything
Dont shimano make a 10speed derailleur to work with their 10speed cassettes?
Which 10speed cassette and derailleur? Eg both m8000 and m786 sgs long cage have a max low gear of 36t and a capacity of 47t, but a deore 10s cassette goes up to 46t and won't work.
You need an m41 series mech for that. I've a nagging suspicion that the 41 series isn't the same cable pull as other 10s groups either but it is only a nag, I can't find anything to back it up.
new drivetrain wont change anything
Is that because you currently have parts all designed to work together and having tried everything else the only thing left is the frame? is it because you don't know what's going wrong so have decided it won't? Or is it because this is a good excuse for a new frame?
I'm happy if its the third one, dubious if it's the first but fairly confident it's the second.
new drivetrain wont change anything
You'll need to explain that logic to me. Why wont a mech and cassette that are designed to work together, work?
[s] Yeah, that slx mech won't do a 46t cassette. You need a new deore m41 mech. [/s]
You're right, replacing the incompatible parts won't fix that.
Obviously the problem is it's upside down, you need a frame that is the other way up.
You’ll need to explain that logic to me. Why wont a mech and cassette that are designed to work together, work?
I thought they were designed to work together too, but even with the goatlink thing they wont. I had the sunrace cassette before this , which i got before shimano did their 11-46 version, if they made a rear mech specifically for that im unaware of it. And id so can I ditch the goatlink? I did try other mechs
Ive done very little riding since covid due to an accident and trying to get back on the bike now
Don't build a bike around a cassette. Especially not that cassette. I know how you ended up here, but it's a crazy question.
That first wave of 10s large cassettes for use with groupsets not designed with them in mind are inherently compromised, yes they can work but apparently not for you. So either go back to a smaller one, or move on to a (11s or 12s) groupset which will work reliably with a 46T sprocket.
if they made a rear mech specifically for that im unaware of it. And id so can I ditch the goatlink
Yes there's a specific mech
Yes you can get rid of the goat link
I don't *think* it will work with your existing shifter either though.
The only shimano kit that will work properly there is the m41 series mech (maybe shifter). Anything else will do exactly what you're seeing there and not give enough chain wrap and will slip under high load.
Basically the mech should be a long way forward of where it is.
It is not a frame problem, except the upside down bit and no drivetrain will fix that.
Your mech isn't compatible with that size cassette. Fit a smaller range (11/36) cassette or replace the mech with a compatible model.
It has nothing to do with your frame.
looking at those pics id try a couple of extra links in the chain and a longer final loop of the gear cable outer/inner. it wont adversely affect the bigger sprocket, bit 'may' improve wrap around on the smaller ones, allowing the mech to sit forwards a bit more.
or what they ^ said
thats great, Im looking for aM5120 shadow+ mech now.
As for the upside down bit, any suggestions are welcome
Will the M5100 work with 10speed as well, or is it only the M5120?
As for the upside down bit, any suggestions are welcome
Turn the camera around? Or the room, put the ceiling at the bottom.
You’ll need to explain that logic to me. Why wont a mech and cassette that are designed to work together, work?
Because that's not what you currently have. you have an 11-46 Sunrace cassette and a 11-36 shimano mech. They can be bodged either with really long B-screws or goat-links, or cheap knock off goat links, but they're all bodges and may/may nto work as you've found.
The simple solution therefore is just buy a new group set that is actually designed to work together. n.b. you'd need an 11-XX cassette, not the microspline 10-XX ones.
The complicated solution is to keep throwing bodges at it until it works. A new frame won't help, everything except SRAMs latest attempt to make everythig obsolete has the mech hanger in exactly the same place.
Will the M5100 work with 10speed as well, or is it only the M5120
Not sure what the difference between them is to be honest, shimano's website is your friend here.
As for the upside down bit, any suggestions are welcome
Definitely a new frame or bike. Possibly though it's your house that's at fault so maybe a new one of those too, just to be safe.
Though if I recall Northwind had some luck fixing the front half, not sure the back easy ever solved though.
Will the M5100 work with 10speed as well, or is it only the M5120
Just found this https://www.rotorburn.com/forums/index.php?threads/difference-between-m5100-and-m5120-rear-derailleur.319884/
5120 can go up to 46t in a 1x10 setup or 42t in 2x10/11
5100 is stated as capable of 51t in 1x only
5100 is 11sp only. If you're keeping everything else the same just get the M5120 and it should be reet...
https://sportandleisure.com/products/shimano-deore-m5120-shadow-11-speed-mtb-rear-derailleur? £35 never used the website before though.
https://www.tweekscycles.com/shimano-deore-m5210-10-11-speed-rear-derailleur-madrdm5120sgs/? £40
Hmmm, unknown potentially scam site vs tweeks.
Not as easy a choice as it should be!
yes its a 10speed. The 10speed XT long cage rear mech works ok on the biggest 3 cogs, but otherwise
My xt rear mech was never happy. Replaced with a deore rear mech £25. Works fine. Should have changed it years ago.
Hmmm, unknown potentially scam site vs tweeks.
Not as easy a choice as it should be!
Was hoping someone would say they'd used them and they are fine, as I've seen them pop up a few times recently.....
Was hoping someone would say they’d used them
They may well be fine, but then my joke wouldn't have had a punch line, even a bad one.
We're not taking about tweeks are we?
Have you thought that replacing the cassette (and maybe the mech with it’s aftermarket bodge) might be cheaper than getting a new bike?
All those range expanding things like the Goat Link were basically just bodges and often didn’t work great. And it’s only a cheap cassette, not like it’s a brand new XTR or fancy bespoke German one that cost more than the earth.
Keep the cassette. Buy this:
https://kidsracing.co.uk/products/microshift-advent-x-clutch-rear-derailleur-for-1-10-speed-rd-m6205am
And this:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/microshift-advent-x-m9505-10-speed-gear-shifter
Fit them, make sure your chain is long enough (it isn't in those pictures above), and you'll have a functioning wide-range 10 speed drivetrain on your existing bike.
I'm running a Shimano M5100 Rear mech on a 1x10 setup with a Microshift 11-48 cassette, yes it's an "11 speed" mech but the cable pull is the same so it speaks 'Dynasis' just fine, sprocket capacity (in shimano blurb) is up to 51t.
~£30 outlay and you can bin the goat link and old Gen 2 shadow mech but keep the cassette and shifter.
I appreciate this might be a bit daft, but....shouldn't the goatlink be pushing the shifter lower, not backwards.
You should try pointing the goatlink at the floor, not behind you, and then seeing what happens......
Ran a sunrace extender on 9 speed and never had any problens
thats exactly what i did. Couldnt get the m5120 with clutch for that price, so crossed fingers and ordered the 5100
As someone else above said, get microshift advent x mech and shifter and in fact, just get the cassette as well. It's cheap enough and bin off the goat link bodge and the old mech.
thats exactly what i did. Couldnt get the m5120 with clutch for that price, so crossed fingers and ordered the 5100
This is taken from the crc website about the deore 5100 rear mech
Hi, would this be compatible with a 10 speed 11-48t microshift cassette?1
answer
Answer question
CRCandrewB · 9 months ago
This is not compatible with a 10 speed cassette. Rd-M5100 is 11-speed.
I don't know if it works with 10 speed so I bought the 5120.
This is taken from the crc website about the deore 5100 rear mech
OK riddle me this how can the M5120 be 10 and 11 speed compatible (using the same shimano levers) but the M5100 only 11 speed?
Cable pull is the same for 10 and 11 speed MTB mechs (and allegedly 12 IIRC?)...
All the CRC gibbons do is read a product spec sheet.
i couldnt answer that one so...couldnt find the answer anywhere
So the 11-46 etc came out as an aftermarket option, never really worked well, but then shimano made their own one with a suitable new derailleur, but never told anyone?
I'm running an old XT 10 speed shifter, with an 11/46 sunrace cassette, and a Deore M5120 mech, and it all works perfectly, adjusted up first time no issues:
Edit: I tried for years to get a wide range 11 speed SLX mech to work with the above as I was advised the cable pull is the same, but it was never any good.
so i have the m5100 rear mech, but only can find 8 gears
Its the 10speed M610 shifter, is the cable pull the same as the M6000?
I get 10 shifter gears/clicks with the cable undone, but connected the derailleur moves the correct distance from 1-10, but only 8 clicks. So I lost 2 gears somewhere
I havent put the chain on yet
Firstly, you should have 9 clicks, not 10
Secondly, why have you bought the 5100 mech and not the 5120? Making things work is so much easier when you buy compatible components as per the Shimano compatibility charts.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?acid=C-436&cid=C-432
i shouldve said,if i click it until 8th gear, its level with the biggest cog and wont click anymore
As above m5100 has no logical explanation for not being 10speed compatible, despite not being on the above chart
Is it possible that my m610 shifter is b******d and will slip 2 gears under tension?
This has become purely another exercise in frustration
Your high and low stops will need adjusting.
At this stage I'd say take it to a bike shop and let someone who knows what they're doing handle the job.
I did adjust the stops
I like to think that i know what im doing, especially when it comes to setting gears up.
Although my memory isnt what it shouldve been
Back the low limit screw off and see if you get the 9th click.
Send the mech back and buy the 5120. Mine just worked straight away. So much better than the xt mech it replaced or trying to use a ztto goat link copy. Should have done it years ago.
New deore is better than old xt.
I'm not sure why it doesn't work when it's all supposed to be the same ratio pull but the chart Simondbarnes puts up confirms what crc said. Life's too short to waste time setting up gears that don't work right or changing other parts.
In fact, my 10 speed deore set up is probably my favourite gear setup across all my bikes. It just works, it's strong, dependable and cheap to replace. I don't think at my level more expensive gear makes any difference 🤣
Back the low limit screw off and see if you get the 9th click.
I tried this,its just the same
I dont see anythin really relating to M5120 on shimano site
Since i had almost the same problem with the sunrace 46T/goatlink/XT m786 derailleur, maybe i should buy a new shifter anyway
Are you getting 9 clicks when the mech isn’t connected?
Are you getting 9 clicks when the mech isn’t connected?
yes
Since i had almost the same problem with the sunrace 46T/goatlink/XT m786 derailleur, maybe i should buy a new shifter anyway
If you buy a new shifter, just buy an 11 speed shifter and a new cassette 🤣
I got this all working fine with the 5100 mech. It helps immensely if the cable is connected on the right side of the bolt
I may fine tune the chainline with bb spacers but im really pleased that it all works
Excellent 👍
