My kit did arrive today from Woosh ebike shop( good service) and is now fitted. The motor is tiny - like stupidly small. Motor unit weight 3.8 kg total kit weight with 575 Whr battery is 7.8 kilos
Impressive apparent quality on opening the box. All bolts seem to be stainless steel allen screws. Not a crosshead to be seen even the tiny screws on the handlebar unit. All connectors waterproof micro multi-pin plugs bar the main battery connections which are conventional bullet fittings
Fitting - motor unit went on well. no issues. Battery is a bottle mount one - and would not go on with the mounts as they are - but two rivnuts supplied in the kit so that was easily sorted.
Display - rather big and clunky for my liking but loads of info on it and a smaller one is available ( but wasn't in stock) there is also a optional remote button that sits next to the grip
Wiring - very straightforward the only issue being the usual thing you get with kits - excess wiring to be hidden behind the motor.
Now for the test ride. Pics to follow
Interested in these, I keep contemplating converting my OFO to electric so it could tow a trailer.
What's the smallest chainring it can take? I don't want more speed it's scary enough relying on drum brakes with human power! By my reckoning 32-14 is 15.5mph at 80rpm, so 32-19 is the equivalent in the nexus hub's top gear.
Didn't you already have one of these ?
Trailrat - I had a sunstar which broke and no longer any spares for it.. I am being moved sites so back to the long commute ( for me) so needed an ebike again.
TINAS - it takes a standard 5 bolt chainring - so I guess 39 will be the smallest? Mines a 42.
Test ride - very quiet, very smooth power. but seems a little less than some I have ridden but hard to tell on the flat. Church Brae in Liberton will be the test.
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That's looks spot on... A lot cleaner install than most I've seen. How far do you think you can get from that 575wh battery?
How long is a piece of string? I would hope for around 40 miles using a fair amount of power. Thats given my previous experience of a different but similar kit. Manufactures claim up to 70 miles but who ever gets that?
What’s the smallest chainring it can take?
110bcd so 34t
I have been tinkering and investigating sub menus that you reach with loads of button pressing. Got the "walk mode" turned on. Not much need on a solo but hopefully this will be going on my tandem once I stop work and it could be handy there.
also in the sub sub menus you can alter the speed limit (which I have not done) and also the power levels - again I have not done this - goes up to at least 500w I think
finally you can swap between european mode and japanese mode - anyone got a guess what the difference is? I don't have a clue.
I dont think you will need that small a chain ring - seems to have loads of torque at low speed and climbs hills easily in middle gears
It was more to give it a sensible top speed, the drum brakes struggle enough with loaded panniers. Just interested in some assistance for shopping trips rather than more speed, and it'd need to fit under the chain guard!
Looks pretty cool. Care to share how much that setup cost?
tinas - the motor cuts out at 15.5 mph and you can alter that speed limit if you want - gearing =will have no effect as it uses a speed sensor on the rear wheel. drum brakes should be plenty powerful enough anyway
Kayak - I paid £650 from a UK supplier. Its also available on alibaba, amazon and ebay
YOu can get it for less but I needed it this week and Woosh bikes had them in stock. YOu pays yer money and takes your chance. Alibaba is much cheaper.
Smaller batteries would save a bit as well
Longer test ride done including some significant hills. I am impressed very smooth power delivery and a smooth "ramp down" as you hit the speed limiter so it doesn't feel like hitting a wall. Plenty of power in turbo - climbed Arthurs seat at 14 mph with moderate effort.
It take a lot of pressure on the pedals to make the motor work hard especially in lower settings this can be adjusted.
It Wheelies pulling away from lights on the flat in turbo!
Not even one bar off the battery ( out of 6) in 11 miles in turbo half of which is climbing - I'm impressed with that
Sounds good.
May have to order a kit👍
Interesting. Does seem to sit in a vulnerable spot, but can understand why it has to be there.
Thanks for the review! This is something I could see fitting to my Wife's bike to get her out and about a bit more.
Once my daughter starts school (literally across the road) it would probably be convenient for her to cycle to work & this would definitely help with incentivising that!
Looks good, do you think it would be fairly mud proof?
Sounds good. Bit cheaper than the Bafang.
I would think it fairly water / mud proof but its not aimed at MTBers. Hard use you need to replace an internal plastic gear with a brass one either before or after it breaks according to t'internet
I'll report back once Iput some miles in
Looks like what I thought was a power adjustment is actually the sensitivity of the torque sensor. It alter the power output you need to reprogramme it which there is ope source software out there for and you do with a modified spare cable an then you need a different screen - or buy a non eu spec one
tinas – the motor cuts out at 15.5 mph and you can alter that speed limit if you want – gearing =will have no effect as it uses a speed sensor on the rear wheel.
More that with a 3s hub there's only a ~100% gear range (top is about double the bottom), so I'd not want to hit the limiter untill ~80rpm in top otherwise I'd never be in anything other than bottom gear.
Na - you want to be hitting the limiter at 80 rpm in middle - then you have top left for downhill. I was tempted to put it on my 3spd bike but its got properly rubbish brakes
Yo don't need such low gears anyway - today I was climbing Arthurs seat in 3rd and 4th - 9spd ( 11/34) cassette with a 42 chainring
I have done a few more miles now - 25 to be exact. the battery is still showing full. It has 6 bars but not used any. The riding has been around hilly Edinburgh in turbo so of course only half the time has the motor been working but when it has its been working hard. I am very impressed with that as extrapolating the 70 mile claimed range seems more than possible
Its far from effortless climbing tho - needs you to put in a fair bit of effort to make the motor work hard although that can be adjusted. However the motor clearly is putting in the power as I tried my commute today and took 4 or 5 mins off the time I used to do it with my previous ebike kit. NO traffic of course and the traffic lights were kind . I went all the way up Leith walk at 15 mph - something I could not do without assistance
My only point of concern is that the motor power seems to reduce as you increase cadence - whether that is because you tend to reduce torque at higher cadence I am not sure or is it that it does stop working above 85 rpm ish and I am beginning to hit that. Certainly as you change to a higher gear you can feel a kick of torque. I'll see how I go but I might increase the sensitivity of the torque sensor
Thanks for the info. Interested in this for the rigid 29.
I looked at one of these for my Big Dummy. Tony at Woosh said that there are some plastic internals that are not as robust as the Bafang kits, didn't know you could get metal gears as a replacement
Theres a facebook community for these and the mods to software and internal upgrades.
People do use them offroad a lot, though I don't think they are in UK muddy damp conditions.
Been tempted a few times to get one.
I found in the sub menues a sensitivity adjuster for the torque sensor. turning that up a bit has made the bike feel much faster and accelerate quicker.
Any impact on battery life?
A wee update. I discovered it had been fretting a bit 'cos the anti rotation mount was not fitting well and the chainstays caught slightly on the back of the casing. A refit with some adjustment of the anti rotation mount required. Otherwise all good and still getting decent battery life and reliable.
I tried fitting it to my old steel roadbike frame - it fitted that better than the mountainbike
When the second hand bike market crashes after the current madness, I'm going to buy an old beater and fit one of these to use for nipping into town.
When the second hand bike market crashes after the current madness, I’m going to buy an old beater and fit one of these to use for nipping into town.
In ten years time, the survivors will be living in sewers, eating rats.
700 mile update
I was having some issues with it reducing power on low battery and cutting out over bumps. traced to the poor main power bullet connectors. I replaced them and its all good. battery range is a bit dissapointing at around 35 miles until range anxiety sets in ( as the display started to go down to one or no bars as you put the power on but goes back to 3 when power is off) but i do ride it in turbo mode all the time and up some reasonable hills
Overall very happy with it. Its just so nice to ride and intuitive. Its as good as the bosch or shimano motors I have ridden now I have turned up the sensitivity of the torque sensor and much nicer than a hub motor. going up leith street and liberton brae at 15 mph is great although I still pedal hardish
I've got the same derating issue on my TSDZ2, but I'm using an EM3EV battery and the connections are all soldered. It seems to be throttling power quite early in the battery life as I can get another 20 miles out of it at that point!
Hmmm - I wonder if it intentional or a sign of poor batteries. No way do I get 20 miles out of it after it starts reducing power now more like 3
My kit certainly does this much less since replacing the connections. I put it down to voltage drop from poor connections
Why can't I work the pictures? Links don't work?
I deleted them off flikr - sorry
Ill see if i can put a couple back up
Just one, I'de like to see what it looks like..
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One thing to note is that if you have wide chainstays it may not fit well as it can clash on the chanstays behind the BB. I had to space it out 1mm to get clearance
That looks a lot less shit than I was expecting. Pretty smart!
Its smaller and lighter than a bosch or shimano. latest tech motor. the actual motor unit is tiny
Looks ideal for my mate who is about to have his knee refurbished. He has put a lot of weight on and will need to do some low impact exercises when it’s done.
hot does that fit to the frame and crank?
You remove the BB and it has in effect a replacement BB attached to the motor and gear unit. It slides into the BB then you put a plate on the non drive side that connects the BB end to the motor unit
I think I have a pic of the basic unit. fitting is easy tho I had to make my own anti rotation stop as the supplied one did not fit that bike well ( tho It did on my old steel roadbike)
As stock you need to pedal hard to get max power. there is an option in the menus to increase the sensitivity of the torque sensor which I have used so you get full power on moderate pedalling effort.
[strong]andybrad[/strong] wrote:
hot does that fit to the frame and crank?
there is a video of one being fitted if you go to the Whosh website
Looks good that. Getting me thinking about one for my sister with arthritis. Does it/can it run on a throttle?
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You can get a kit with a throttle but I would not do so. If you fit a throttle you need brake and gearchange cutout switches. If yo turn the torque sensor right up then simply turning the pedals with no effort makes the motor kick out max power. I just turned mine up a bit so moderate pedalling gives full power
Interesting. I wonder if it would fit on my cargo bike. Do you know if spares are available, for example batteries if the range drops off.
Currently close to walking pace when carting kids up and down Edinburgh hills..
Yes. spares are available including drive gears as far as I am aware. If you are going to put it under a lot of load i believe the plastic drive gear is vulnerable but a metal one is available.
you in Edinburgh? Want to try mine? Happy to let you have a shot
https://ebikechoices.com/e-bike-parts-and-accessories-where-to-buy/#tongsheng-parts
Can you fit two of them to a tandem?
Is there anything like this aimed at more off road use? I imagine even fairly mild muddy or rocky trails would either whack the motor off altogether or at least make it seize
Horatio - I would think so given clearance under both bbs but i think it would really really confuse the torque sensing and syncing pedals might be tricky 😉
Yes, I likey.
FOG
The motor unit does not go below the chainring so rock strikes should not be an issue. I think mud would be OK but I have not opened the unit up to look at its sealing but a previous differnt manufacturer unit I had that I did strip was well sealed and I have ridden this one on road in torrential rain with no issues.
I think more likley would be stripping the internal gears from high loading like pedalling into a rock step. I think people do use them off road but I think only suitable for xc pootling rather than full on winch and plummet riding
Thanks TJ , I was really thinking of a gravel type bike so it sounds as if it will do the job.
Is there anything like this aimed at more off road use? I imagine even fairly mild muddy or rocky trails would either whack the motor off altogether or at least make it seize
I've had one of these motors for over a year now, and I've used it almost everywhere off road (and on) that I regularly rode before, including Innerleithen and Glentress black trails. I used to have it on a hardtail, but now it's on my full sus. I often get it covered in mud without a problem, although I avoid riding through deep water.
On my bike, the motor does hang a bit lower than on "official" mid-motor e-bikes, and this can be problem, especially on rock step-ups. Having said that, I've accidentally hit rock steps with it about a dozen or so times without any issues.
Looking at the pics I'm guessing that one of these wouldn't work on a bike with downtube / bottom bracket routed gear cable? If so, bit of a shame as my touring bike doesn't get used in winter so would have been ideal for assisted winter commuting.
Yeah, gear cable issue here on mrs bike as well
However whoosh also do front/rear hub motors that are connected to torque sensing cranks(bit next to chainring) , so this looks quite appealing - ok less power etc but lighter, more tucked in and it looks like an easy retro fit with a bottle cage bolt mounted battery.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tskit
I also note from tinternet that they’re now doing bbs with a built in torque sensor so I suspect that would be even neater
Having had a hub motor (until it broke) I won't be getting another one.
Another mid-drive kit here under development. European. Scroll down to read it all. Anyone else backing it? Expecting to arrive in the next month or so.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lightest-ebike-kit-your-bike-with-superpowers#/
Interesting concept but the lack of wraparound on the chainring bothers me and is there enough reduction in the drive gears?
I've just clicked up to 500 miles on my TSDZ2 with no issues in about 10 weeks.
Did think I had a bit of a derating issue, but it seems to have gone away.
With all the weight it's very sensitive to tyre pressure. Drag is really noticeable if get too low
I’ve just clicked up to 500 miles on my TSDZ2 with no issues in about 10 weeks.
Any issues in the rain at all?
700 miles here commuting including a few rainy days. No issues
Ta. I'm definitely leaning this way rather than spending £700 odd quid on a new motor / wheel for my spesh turbo.
£700 for a hub-motor is an awful lot. What's up with the original one?
Been fairly dry commutes so far. Couple of wet ones and no ill effects.
I think the frame will fail first anyway. Not many 1st generation rigs around as I think a lot snapped at the downtube due to the weird built in stress risers 😉
£700 for a hub-motor is an awful lot. What’s up with the original one?
It's broken. And yes, it is indeed a lot, and the bike uses a proprietary battery which even if available would be £££ hence looking at sacking it all off and chucking a Tongsheng kit on one of my existing bikes.
Last thing to decide on before I order it is battery size. Probably going with 48v 14.5Ah
the ramping down effect on the tongsheng is back for me. Not tracked down why - my guess is its something to do with voltage drop? It means that using it as I do ie full power all the time range is cut as the last 1/3 of the battery is not full power - the final climb to work is at 13 - 14 mph not the full 15.5. and the last little bit of battery it gives very little assistance
I also turned up the sensitivity of the torque sensor so it gives full power at moderate effort - as stock yo have to be peddalling hard to get full power ( easy to do from sub menues)
Interesting. Did you go for branded cells in your battery or generic Chinese one? (apologies if you've already mentioned elsewhere in the thread)
I've ordered a kit now. Hopefully it'll turn up at some point. I hate internet shopping and try and avoid it.
I got the recommended battery from woosh bikes. It looks like a generic one used in many kits. Given the price I suspect cheapo cells but it was claimed to be Panasonic
other issues with that indiegogo campaign asside, I really like this!
My kit got delivered this afternoon. Still not sure which bike I want it on but thought I'd try it on my old P7 for starters as it has top tube mounted shift cable so makes fitting a bit more straightforward. Need to connect up all of the wires and find a plug for the battery charger.
Also need to work out why the speed sensor has a double ended connector 🙂
You should have a splitter cable in the kit. The second port is for 6v lights that are switched from the head unit
I went for an E3MV battery (13.6 ah 48V) as the standard one from PSW wouldn’t fit in my frame.
Make sure you loctite the bolts up once you happy with the position of the motor.
Two torrential rain commutes in the last 2 weeks with no issues. I should probably do some maintenance on the bike generally at some point.
The derating seems to just be a feature of cheaper kits with less fancy BMS and motor controllers. Friends hub drive does it a bit as well. Mines not too bad.
Keep the tyres nice and hard!
How are you attaching the battery? You need more than just bottle bosses...
I wrapped mastic tape around the frame, jubilee clipped on 2 Topeak bottle boss adaptors (4 clips) and used these to bolt down with 4 bolts. Has been really good. I should do something to cover up the clips, but it’s a commuter so I couldn’t care less
You should have a splitter cable in the kit. The second port is for 6v lights that are switched from the head unit
Yup, sussed that now
How are you attaching the battery?
I was going to wing it and just use the 2 bottle bosses 🤣
Anyway, I've just ridden it around the shop and it all works. Need to work out where the hell to put all of the bloody cables!
Yeah. It's tempting to cut the cables short but then you are screwed if you want to change the frame or move the battery. I (well a friend) soldered and heat shrunk the main battery cables so there was a good solid and watertight connection.
I'll take some pics of my setup later, although I haven't really sorted the remote cable out yet. It was difficult to get them setup so they weren't just wicking water into the motor
I wouldn't hang that much weight on 2 bottle bosses - I could see them pulling out or just damaging the frame. Mine moved slightly as it was. When you ride over anything rough it's an awful lot of force going through the bosses
To be honest id be a bit nervous about electrifying a frame I cared about 🙂
When the rig eventually fails (I had to 'relieve' the EBB shell to get the motor to fit) I'll be on the lookout for a cheap steel 29er and getting the workshop to weld a plate on the downtube to attach the battery 🙂
HoratioHufnagel
Can you fit two of them to a tandem?
You only need one, at the stoker position. Mate of mine did it after seeing TJ's efforts on a tandem page on facebook. Bit tricky to fit the unit as it's designed for a downtube that goes up, not a boom tube that doesn't. Works fine though
To be honest id be a bit nervous about electrifying a frame I cared about
It's on my 24 year old Orange for now, if it breaks it breaks. However, it isn't the most practical bike for commuting so I am probably going to try and fit it to my touring bike. If I can't get the under bb gear cable to work then I'll just run a full length outer. Having mudguards and the ability to carry panniers is going to be far more sensible for the winter commute. I don't really want to break it though so will look at ways of spreading the load from the weight of the battery.
Had a short spin up the road at the end of the day. The motor feels nice and smooth and pulls well, especially in turbo mode 🙂
