[Closed] Titanium hardtail… talk me out of it

JFDI

It's a lot of money, if you have no issues with the current one you'll just pick fault with the new one, Ti hardtails are so 2000s, etc, etc.

I had a Ti hardtail it will ride identical to what you have(unless your a bike journo/work in marketing) save your money.

Find out how well it is made. I had one Ti frame I couldn't get on with - felt stiff and uncomfortable. New Ti - (travers) is so different.

It'll probably crack.

Is it a Tarntanium? They are lovely, lovely things.

Had an Old Skool Litespeed Ti hardtail...lovely thing, it seemed to float down the trail going 'ping' 'ting' 'ting' and encouraged one to push it harder to really make it sing.

Felt indestructible too - liked how water and mud just fell off it, so easy to live with...hammered hard and still looked fresh years later.

Only had to sell because the wheels grew 1.5-3" too small.

Would get something similar again in a flash.

Go on treat yourself.

It’ll probably crack.

He doesn't have to buy a Lynskey.

I had a genesis altitude ti, I'm pretty sure the 853 version would have been better, the ti one was just too bendy in all the wrong directions

I rode my Kona Hei Hei from 1996 until 2016. I love the modern geometry of my new Slackline but if I could afford it, I'd have the ti version tomorrow.

I'm still riding a 95 DBR Axis TT.
The geometry is very old school & a dropper would be nice. But on the right trail, it still flies.
Would happily buy a new school Ti HT when I'm minted.

New Ribble looks very pretty, not seen reviews though.

Still got an old Merlin titanium which I bought new in 1997. Was completely underwhelmed by it to be honest and never really saw why everyone raved about Ti but then again it may just be that particular frame didnt suit me. As said above they can break. It still brings a tear to my friends eye that his Xizang cracked, Litespeed made so not just cheaper manufacturers. Personally I would stick with what you've got.

You could probably spend the money better to upgrade the current bike, it doesn’t save that much weight, unusually for me I think most of the painted ones look nicer.

That said, it’s still a lovely thing and it’s a heart over head decision, so how much do you really want it?

If your existing one is a green one how much do you want for it?

Existing one is Dark Metal paint (loverly)… and the Titanium version doesn’t look any nicer… it’s not the look of Ti that’s tempting me… except perhaps the lack of future paint chips etc… but no, assume that looks have nothing to do with it.

Sold my ti about 3 years ago. Tried various bikes since a FS a Gravel bike even looked at eMTB but nothing seems to be as versatile or good to ride as the old ti so just ordered another.
Only change is an EBB and 12x142 rear axle.

I bought the Ti version a week ago. Best bike I’ve ever had by a country mile. Light, comfortable, looks amazing, and fast. Very fast. You won’t regret it......

In that case, why do you want it? If you really want to spend the money would eewings/axs/carbon wheels or other expensive marginal gains selected according to taste do the job better?

Someone I ride with bought a ti one over the summer. It’s nice but it’s not nicer enough in my opinion.

A full suss will be faster both up and down!

At the end of the day it is just a bike, in a year or two's time it will be an old bike and you already have a bike. Brexit is coming save your money.

Enjoying my signal. Not sure if it's comfier than the tarn it replaced but it's certainly very nice to ride and significantly lighter.

It will be a waste of money no doubt...but since when is that a sensible excuse? If you fancy it and can afford it/finance it then go for it. You only live once and even the cost of a decent Ti frame in the grand scheme of your life is not very much at all.

Did you really expect to be talked out of it on here??

Steel = real.

There, that was simple. Now choose a paintjob.

So much conflicting good sense!

Prepare to be massively underwhelmed. They don't last forever, they don't ride that nicely and they crack.

Why would you want to stare at that sexy sexy bare naked metal and have your friends (and internet buddys) fawn over its beauty? Why would you want to make your wife jealous of your bike such that she buys all new sexy underwear and jumps on you at any opportunity? Sounds like a stupid decision.

I love titanium tbh. Is it worth it, nah (though I did sell both of my ti frames for what they cost me after years of riding, so that was totally worth it). But it looks lovely, it does tend to ride lovely (I had an Mmmbop and a Ti, and a Soul and a Soda, and anyone that can't tell the difference must be numb from the neck down)

But I don't have any now, because they're damn expensive.

They are rubbish.

The Dark Metal ones are sooooo much better, take it from someone who knows....

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Now you’ve done the miles, how do they compare?

If you're not cursing the weight of your SolarisMAX then there are surely many better ways to spend the money.

Unless you're getting a very good deal on it.

Did you get a chance to ride the SodaMAX at all?

For me the SodaMAX is a just a nicer ride than the SolarisMAX. It does have that little extra zing thing and in 29er mode I find it the best hardtail I've owned.

Is it worth the extra cash? Honestly? No, probably not. But a fool and his money is easy parted. In smiles, mibbes.

As a friend (since departed) used to say 'there aint pockets in a shroud'...

If you find yourself up my way you're more than welcome to try it out (bearing t-shirt or not 🙂 )

I’m still riding a 95 DBR Axis TT.
The geometry is very old school & a dropper would be nice. But on the right trail, it still flies.
Would happily buy a new school Ti HT when I’m minted.

Beautiful frames. I worked in a part-time in bike shop and we sold them.  Couldn’t afford one as I was a student.  Built up into truly lovely bikes.  Sandvik built them - if I remember...?

I’ve had three titanium frames since and have another I am yet to build up.  The Van Nicolas Road bike was light, fast and comfier than my mates similar OCLV road frame to the time.

I bought Northwinds old Cotic Soda and had a great few years on it. It was lively, light, comfortable and just a special bike.  I plan to either build it up for one of my children and/or maybe with 700c wheels as a flat bar bike for the road.

I have a Stanton Switchback Ti at the moment, which is amazingly good, super-capable, light for a hard-core hardtail and very direct.  With 2.6-2.8 tyres it is also super-comfortable, giving more of a magic carpet Ti ride than just taking the edge off bumps as it did with 2.4’s.

I also have a Kona Hei Hei, which I need to build up and as such, I have never ridden it...

So I say...  GO FOR IT!  I have never regretted having any of my Ti frames.  They have always just been fantastic.

Titanium hardtail… talk me out of it

No, do it!
Rationally you can't justify it - it's a ton of money for something you may or may not feel any difference in.
But riding a bike with big knobbly tyres through forest can't really be justified in rational terms, so you might as well go for the bike that looks the best and gets you thinking "oooh, I want to go for a ride NOW" the most often.

Have splurged on a Ti hardtail earlier this year, that is more or less similar to my lovely steel hardtail. Its different, it encourages hooning about a lot more (once I got geometry sorted out). Its quick climbing - very responsive. Is it worth it ? its a laugh, its not vital. To be honest again, if I came direct from my old M2 alloy hardtail I'd be "wow" but recent steel hardtail has softened that impact.

Don't regret it either -- it looks lovely, I wish I had more headspace and energy to ride it this year.

Like northwind mentioned, if you cannot tell the difference riding Ti from any other metals or plastic then you do are “numb” to experiencing the benefits of them

I’ve had loadsa Ti mtbs and 1 VN roady which deffo was an impulse buy at time quickly sold on as wasn’t a roady type plus felt I was quicker on my ss steel ht at time

Merlin xlm even though special with the engraving felt a bit dead in a way but still nice to ride mind

All the others have been LS made and have and do feel amazing

No crackage yet touch ti 😜

I even took my ti 29er ht down a easy track at GGH recently to find it just about works - though not ideal
Would really prefer a 26er full suss around 140mm +

Was interesting to bottom out the 120mm fork for first time in 15 yrs lol

The only 2 bikes I have regretted selling were both Titanium. Not sure why it was those two and I particularly like the look of titanium which is your case is not a factor.

Currently looking out for a second hand titanium track frame but they are not common unfortunately.

On the other hand, I also have a SolarisMAX and expect it to meet my needs for many years to come.

So assuming the ti version doesn't crack, it's likely to be a safe bet from the POV of not-immediate-obsolesence, IYKWIM.

Imagine if you'd spent that kinda money on a 26in frame in 2013 - just before everything changed so much. I honestly can't see that kind of rapid evolution happening again now.

I’m loving my Sonder Signal Ti. It flexes the same as my Stanton Sherpa did, but it’s lighter.
It’s beautiful to look at, and no paint chips.
My Stanton sherpa 853 frame cost £700
My Ti frame was 1k. So not massively more expensive.

I have had a couple of TW-made Ti frames fail (and none were Lynskeys). And by the time the stiffness is similar to a good Ti frame the weight saving isn't that much. But still, if the Cotic Ti is about the same stiffness as the steel that you like already but a bit lighter and the diminishing returns thing isn't a problem, I'd go for it.

I had a genesis altitude ti, I’m pretty sure the 853 version would have been better, the ti one was just too bendy in all the wrong directions

.. and that was a fairly stiff Ti frame compared to most at the time - tubes were larger OD. They can feel too flexible compared to a good steel equivalent since that's what the 'Ti ride feel' is, flex.

I think that's a good point actually- it used to be that a really good 853 frame would cost you £400-£450 and ti of the same quality/same quality brand would be over a grand. Now steel's gone up and ti has become more accessible.

Wonders when Ribbles offerings in steel & ti will be ready for release into couriers hands

I’ve always lusted after a Ti hardtail, but never had the money. Go for it OP, you’re a long time dead. Buy it, ride it and post lots of photos of it on here

Don't buy a Ti frame they are just rubbish. I love mine but don't you buy one.

has that worked?

Have you ordered it yet?

So i'm an avid lover of Ti..i've 3 ti bikes..

I think they aren't as light as carbon or ali, but lighter than steel.
But...they have a 'feel' to them that's hard to explain.

For instance, my Travers SS (rigid) feels like it's got 40mm of travel either end. It's soo comfy;it's odd!

My hardcore HT is just lovely...really nice welds and again, feels 'softer' than a HT should, without feeling flexy.

Plus, they are so easy to clean!

DrP

Still have my Brodie Holeshot Ti that I brought SH from here, I did the same, I had a Ragley Bluepig which I swapped into the Brodie frame
I just love the way the Ti rides.
So much so I swapped out my carbon road bike for a Ti Kinesis too

Do it

Having got myself a Ti hardtail earlier this year, I can only agree with what the others have said. There is just something utterly sublime about it.

Get one!

I have owned a few ti hardtails over the years and still do now. I have also owned a few steel and carbon ones and always go back to ti. There is just something about the ride quality, the durability and the looks that do it for me.
If I could only have one MTB, it would be a ti one. Yes they are expensive but as stated above, a good steel frame is now pretty expensive so the price difference is becoming more justifiable.

It will almost certainly crack. (IME, 3 months from a Ti hardtail)

Your current frame is fine.

It's a hassle to switch them over.

All the stuff about magical ride quality is guff, especially if you like the current bike don't go changing it and finding out what you used to like about it.

Spend it on other bike stuff or, failing that, coke and hookers.

The only frames (and forks actually) that I’ve cracked have been Ti. However, given the price of them relative to the repair cost, I’m happy getting them patched up and back into service.

It will almost certainly crack.

This is almost certainly a load of pish.

I had a Ti (26") Slackline, it was lovely, took the edge off a lot of hits.
I've now got a steel (mk2) Switchback and although I'm liking the geometry changes, the back end is a little harsh. Does anyone have any experience of both the steel and Ti switchbacks for comparison as thinking of saving up for a (s/h) Ti one?

This is almost certainly a load of pish.

Everybody I know who's had a ti frame of any ilk for any length of time has cracked it. My experience is clearly worse than average, but the "frame for life" image is undoubtedly a load of pish. Yes the material is very tough, but the minute you weld it it's very hard not to introduce impurities and defects, which titanium is particularly sensitive to, partly due to its relatively low ductility. I think also they tend to be more "crafted" than "engineered", built in small quantities without much R&D, so the problems can't be worked around which I'm sure they would be if Ti was the default frame material.

Conversely, although other frames can and do crack, I know plenty of people with ancient steel and aluminium frames that have not had easy lives.

The obscene cost of replacement of a ti frame does mean that repair is an option, though.

also.. 2 out of the 3 ti frames i have are lifetime warranty...

That being said, I did crack a Tripster Mk1, but this was at teh 'known fault spot'... I've also cracked an alu scandal...
Friends have busted steel frames, so hey hum...!

DrP

I still ride my Sandvik made Cove Hummer, must be approaching 20 years old, (has canti brake bosses and disc mounts). A bit steeper than modern geometry, but rides lovely.

ti frames acquire patina not signs of wear.
Just wash off the mud and a quick rub with some Scotch Bright.
Don't even need frame protector.

Out of any bike Ive ever owned, my Ti frame was the best and its the bike I miss the most. Lovely to ride and nice and light.

What I don't miss is the yearly warranty repair (yes - Lynskey)

Id buy another Ti again if I was riding more than I am at the moment and so could justify the cost of it. But I'd always be mindful of constant changes to geometry/components etc.

Ahh, sod it! Buy one and ride it 🙂

Thanks again for all the good but contradictory advice and opinions. I’ve not dismissed any of it.

Dr P, I have PM'd you. Cheers.

We talking about a Solarismax & a Sodamax? if so I have ridden both & confirm the soda is nicer 🙂

(yes – Lynskey)

Haha, same as mine. The design detail that failed on mine was really not very good, and Lynskey only fabricated it, to be fair to them.

A lifetime warranty isn't really much use if you're halfway through a holiday with a long long walk down a mountain, or in a variety of other situations.

I have had 4 titanium hard tails one got stolen, I still have 2 and have had no cracking issues with either (fingers crossed) and one frame cracked round the seat tube.

My partner had a Ti mtb frame which cracked along the seat stays and my Ti road bike had cracks along the chain stays. All problems were resolved by free replacement or free repair and some polite negotiation.

All the Ti bikes I have ridden have been a pleasure, just get one ordered you know you want to.

When I bought my road bike I phone my partner to get her to put me off, but she said just get it.
You only live once.

I'm on Ti frames #1, #2 and #5. #3 was sold and I've no idea where it ended up. #4 is still in regular use by a certain long-distance cyclist. #1 there's a bit of a tale around and I'm awaiting it's return after being loaned to someone. None of them were horrendously expensive and none of them exhibit any signs of damage (or even wear really).

I had a stooge steel loved it so much bought a ti with slightly longer top tube, only had it a week but I like it a lot more, rides comfier, looks rad and told mrs that I’ve had the old one paint stripped... happy days!!!!

What was #1 tale frame then I wonder Scotsroutes ?

This intrigues me somewhat

One of my favourite, most fun bikes ever was my Dialled Bikes Alpine (853). So much fun, built to be solid and rode like it. The one - only - problem I couldn't get over as a result was the weight. I always imagined a Ti version would be ideal.

Then Mike made a prototype Ti version through The Bike Chain.

And it just wasn't the same at all. Light yes but skittish, not planted, "skippy".

That said, I really want a Ti 29er now for the likes of longer distance touring / packing rides. I think Ti is the ultimate material for that. But for trail riding ("Enduro") it just wasn't right.

Bugger. Now I want a Ti frame again 🙁

From the Stooge website
Titanium Stooge frames carry a warranty of five years to the original purchaser. The frame will be returned to the framebuilder for repair of replacement at their discretion, but in most cases a flawless repair will be executed.

Oh dear, this thread has made me look at the Cotic site, the Soda looks like my ‘ultimate’ bike. Think I might buy my first lottery ticket.. so the odds of me obtaining one are still one in 14 million..

From the Van Nicholas website (my bold)

Van Nicholas will replace (not repair) any Titanium frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship for the lifetime of the frame. Every bicycle has a limited life, the so-called useable life-cycle. The duration of the useable life-cycle of bicycles depends on the type of frame, the way in which and the circumstances under which the bicycle is ridden and the care/maintenance the bicycle receives. The lifetime guarantee period is established on the basis of the duration of the useable life cycle of the bicycle. Van Nicholas sets the lifetime of their frames at an average of 25 years.

Loooooooove my Van Nic Zephyr.

Sorry, OT.

Hey OP (kelvin) - have you bought one yet? get on with it! 🙂

I was expecting photos.

Today 🤨

It's a bike for life, but we haven't got all day.

Don’t rush me!

[ s o r r y ]

I'd buy one if I could afford it. My bastardised Ragley Ti is the best hardtail I've ever ridden and before it I had both an Mmmbop (aluminium) and a Blue Pig (steel). All identical geometries, though different tube proportions. The Ti kind of combines the lightness of aluminium with the steel zing / softeness / give / whatever, and throws in that sort of magic 'thing' that's hard to nail, but obvious when it's there. It's a happy frame.

Kona Raijin 29er, made by Lynskey, 7 years and counting all fine and Dandy. Cove Hummer (Litespeed) 2005 vintage again nothing to see here 😎

When you've bought one you also have to get a set of e-wings to go with it, just because they look so good on a Ti frame.

Just spent the weekend on the Dunoon Dirt Dash on a ti Broken Road - lovely, in all respects, even carried all right. If the cash isn't the be all and end all then do it.