The Reckoning

Just started watching now, we were a bit unsure about watching, but have decided to give it a go. Some pretty uncomfortable scenes already 😕

Yeah, it really does get straight into the subject. To me that was wise decision rather than paint a fluffy slippers approach.

Just watched the first part after hearing one of his victims that appears in it talking on the radio today.

WOW!

Coogan was superb.

The subject matter isn't pleasant, but you can't pretend it didn't happen, and the way it's done is very, very good.

Have avoided it so far as had relatives at Stoke Mandeville at the time who clearly knew he was up to no good.

Great interview with Coogan on the Beeb site the other day, a brave choice to take on the role.

A difficult watch was that.

What a absolute bastard. Terrible that he got away with it.

The man at the start who said he groomed a nation got it exactly right.

Very, very uncomfortable viewing.

I grew up in the 70s and even then at that age I thought he was a bit weird and frightening. Jim'll Fix It was just so odd.

Watched the first episode last night. Very well done, and brave of Coogan to play the role. What a barsteward.

I saw most of the first episode and 'enjoyed' it - however, it seems most of the mainstream media is getting its knickers in a twist about it as it didn't expose the BBC (amongst others) as being complicit by turning a blind eye to what was going on. I guess it is a difficult balance though - it isn't meant to be an investigation into what went on, it is meant as 'entertainment', albeit very dark.

I thought Coogan was brilliant, but it threw me a bit with him looking old in the scenes set in the 60s – but I hadn't realised how old Savile was - he was 40 in 1966!

The man at the start who said he groomed a nation got it exactly right.<br /><br />

i thought that was such a powerful statement, I’d never heard it being said before but absolutely spot on.

Coogan is outstanding.

I grew up in the 70s and even then at that age I thought he was a bit weird and frightening. Jim’ll Fix It was just so odd.

Perhaps I was naive - but I grew up in the 70's (child of the late 60's) and didn't have a clue.

Ruddy loved Jim'll Fix It and wrote in loads of times.

I grew up in the 70’s (child of the late 60’s) and didn’t have a clue.

Same here, it was only decades later when the rumours started. I remember thinking Louis Theroux had gone a bit easy on him watching that interview... but by then... wow, so much damage. At least that shit would be much harder to get away with nowadays.. only positive I can take from The Reckoning.

Yeah I can’t say he made me feel uneasy as a kid, but my Dad was some what ‘cautious’ of him. He worked in psychiatric care and was involved with a few sexual predators. 

My parents were of an age when they would go to clubs in Manchester when he was about, I know they saw him at TOTP when it was filmed up here. Perhaps they picked up on his "creepy bastard" vibes.

They weren't keen on him when he was on TV.

I wonder what happened to all his bikes 🤔

I saw him driving past once walking around Otley.

I know, it is a cool story bro.

It's quite easy to have always known / suspected, with the benefit of hindsight. I had no idea at the time.

I didn't know this programme existed, I don't watch much broadcast TV. I'll give it a go, cheers.

He used to live in a riverside flat in the city here. As a kid it was cool to have a 'local' celebrity. Hate to think now how many lives here he actually damaged.

I was from that era and like most people I just though his behaviour was eccentric rather than creepy/seedy.

I saw him a few times out jogging near Roundhay or round the ring road in Leeds. Used to pap my horn and he'd give us a wave!

Came out of work at the same time they were moving his coffin out the Queens hotel in Leeds, took a few photos and watched for a few minutes. Then the shit hit the fan and I deleted all the photos quick smart!!

I was born in 76 but didn't really know anything about him other than Jim'll fix it, TOTP, and his running. Always thought he was a weird looking ****er but most of those old TOTP presenters were a bit letchy!

When celebs like Benny Hill and Dick Emery were mainstream TV every week, Jimmy Saville didn't stand out as being particularly odd! 🙂

Just watched the first episode and it is a bit cringy and hard to watch at bits, Steve Coogan is spot on and has the voice to a T

Could it be having played Alan Partridge all these years who seemed to have a few traits of Saville?

Just read the adopted son was banged up for a few years and died in hospital

Didn't realise until reading the above post that he was Ray Teret. Another monster.

Remember Coogan’s career kind of started with Spitting Image so he’s  very good at voices. 

Yeah took me a little while to realise who he was, very disturbing how he insists on that he calls Jimmy father. I guess there’s an unpleasant childhood that Jimmy never spoke about. 

We've watched the first two episodes so far, and yes, the whole thing is deeply disturbing and pretty 'squirmy' in places. Just what he got away with over the years falls nothing short of a scandal, obviously. I thought the scene where he first appeared at the BBC for interview to kick off TOTP was rather telling - Anna Instone (?) had him banged to rights from the moment he walked through the door, and made it VERY clear that she viewed him with nothing short of utter contempt, even at that stage for his personality alone; "He's an absolute shit, wouldn't touch him with a bargepole"

Just finished the final episode, so well done and his downfall was coming but sadly too late for justice. 

Ray Teret

Tangent but,

I'd never heard of Ray Teret so googled him. Got a "people also searched for" suggestion of Fred Talbot. I had completely forgotten about Fred. So I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone else had forgotten the prolific schoolboy-botherer.

I started to watch it last night but, unfortunately, couldn't get past "Steve Coogan doing an impression of Jimmy Saville". A good one, obviously, but somehow whatever I see Coogan in, I always see Coogan.

Just finished watching the last part. So well done.

Having lived through this whole era, I can't believe what went on in plain sight. Yet, looking back, so many signs were there. 

I remember when John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) made some comments about Saville in the late 1970s and thinking 'where did *that* come from??'

I guess it would be wrong to say I enjoyed watching the programmes, but I did find them very engaging, and I think the series will have a useful role in 'setting the record straight' or something like that.

I take my hat off to Coogan, and the abuse victims who were part of it.

tillydog , we've watched 3 of the 4 . Like you I lived through the time . I find it disturbing to watch but at the same time compelling . I remember seeing a clip of an interview he did later in his life where he said a lot of things will come out after I'm gone that will shock everyone or did I imagine that ? It's the sinister way he built that shield around himself I find really disturbing. A recent documentary suggests that he thought as a Catholic that as God hadn't punished him it was alright to carry on? He vowed to " Stop all that shit " after his mum died , that didn't last long did it ? 

Will watch the last episode tonight.

Watched the last one last night.

Can't recall at the time thinking much else than he was a good bloke. Weird as hell of course, but a seemingly genuine force for good.

Just incredible that all that and more went on and didn't come out at the time.

What a disgusting and twisted individual and shame on anyone who turned a blind eye.

Thought Steve Coogan was brilliant.

Two episodes down.

All other things aside, this is a career-defining performance from Coogan. The voice is one thing, he's a voice actor first and foremost after all, and there are occasional blips. But the mannerisms and the development from young Savile to old Savile, it is just astonishing work. If he doesn't need a new shelf for the awards he'll net then there's something wrong.

Fantastic job from Coogan. He captured the fake joviality of Savile’s quips perfectly. I speak from experience.

Only one episode in, but agree, Coogan is going to get a clean sweep of the awards.

just started watching, and very disconcerting. Dark haired girl taken back to the flat in the first proper scene is a friend of my kids through their theatre school. I know it's acting but knowing how young she actually is just made it even more horrible.

just started watching, and very disconcerting. Dark haired girl taken back to the flat in the first proper scene is a friend of my kids through their theatre school.

I started watching it twice it but really struggled and haven't even made it to the end of that scene... I just found it too uncomfortable to watch knowing what we know now.

A testamant to his acting I guess.. and I say that as someone who loves horror films and weird phycological dramas etc.

2 episodes in and it's hard to use the word "enjoyable" as it's very grim but it's fantastically well done. A few times I've thought "that's very Partridge-esque" of Coogan's performance but I suspect in reality Coogan would have put some Saville mannerisms into Partridge over the years

@mattyfez yes, it’s very difficult to watch I get where you’re coming from. I found really difficult for some scenes, the first episode is almost tame in comparison. 

I started to watch it last night but, unfortunately, couldn’t get past “Steve Coogan doing an impression of Jimmy Saville”. A good one, obviously, but somehow whatever I see Coogan in, I always see Coogan.

Same here. Extremely well done and disturbing but I kept expecting it to devolve in to comedy because Steve Coogan. Only watched first two episodes. Hats off to his victims to be involved with the making of it.

In a cool story bro aside, an old workmate of mine once pushed Saville down a small flight of stairs in a Scarborough hotel.

Just watched the last one. It was a struggle to watch, really uncomfortable viewing. I thought Coogan's acting was superb. Voice, mannerisms, the way he aged and the constant undercurrent of menace and manipulation he projected were spot on.

What a grade A thunder**** Saville was and what a screaming injustice that he went to his grave without facing his victims in court.

What a grade A thunder**** Saville was and what a screaming injustice that he went to his grave without facing his victims in court.

you could argue that he never got to stand there and try to wheedle himself out of it all - he did what he did and everyone knows he did and he can’t try to hoodwink anyone.

I just don't have any desire to watch it, maybe I should give it a try tho. 

The scene where the cubs/scouts get their group medal then the lad is abused in his dressing room. When he got home and had a tear running down his cheek. Ooft that got me.

Watched it all and Coogan is excellent. I think everyone should watch it. It might be criticised for not holding the BBC to account but I think the real message is we all need to be held to account. How many times have concerned people not spoken out when they feel uncomfortable because they won't be believed against some superior person or organisation?
I was in Stoke Mandeville for 3 months in 1982. My parents and wife used to visit and regularly saw Jimmy pushing trollies of bedding about and thought he was a generous eccentric. He relied on that image to get away with everything.
I do work in schools around safeguarding and tell everyone to watch it now.

Focusing on his links to Thatcher/the Tories and the Royal family is an interesting way for the BBC to deflect attention away from their own enablement of their employees behaviour.

Seems rather pathetic that nobody was able to lay a glove on him while he was still alive.

Like others have said, I had no idea he was a wrong un, when I was a kid.   Just thought he was a bit of an eccentric relic.

an interesting way for the BBC to deflect attention away from their own enablement of their employees behaviour.

It was commissioned by the BBC but produced by ITV (although the BBC may have leant on the producers a bit perhaps)?

I've got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it. You don't talk your way out of that for several decades, its not even remotely plausible. He was protected and several ex police have already said so.

It might be criticised for not holding the BBC to account

Given that it was on iPlayer I thought they were fairly bold in their introspection. YMMV.

This was really well done I thought, great viewing if somewhat uncomfortable at times. The morgue revelation was a twist I'd not heard before.

He was definitely part of something bigger.

Turns out a friend was in Stoke Mandeville when she was 5 and remembers the gold tracksuit and him carrying bowls of sweets. Said her dad didn't leave her side for the two weeks she was there, which she now knows was on account of it being widely known what he was up to.

Annoyingly the Jim'll Fix It theme now randomly pops into my head.

Annoyingly the Jim’ll Fix It theme now randomly pops into my head.

It was a banger of theme tune. Also, great concept for a programme (as well as ideal grooming territory)

BBC has no involvement in the production or editing. I don’t think it painted them well at all, it showed them ignoring concerns or not investigating properly.

You don’t talk your way out of that for several decades, its not even remotely plausible.

Oh but it is. He came across as true sociopath too, a dangerous individual as people believed his charm and couldn’t see past the persona.

I remember, on this forum, 15 or so years ago, the rumours about him were aired. Great howls of protest went up, 'He's a great chap' or words to that effect. I met him a few years later in Glen Coe, he had bought a cottage (Allt na Reigh) from people we knew. We were surprised when he answered the door. Creepy guy telling creepy stories.

in Glen Coe, he had bought a cottage (Allt na Reigh) from people we knew.

Donkey's years ago, when someone told me it was his cottage, I thought "Wow, what a fantastic place to live".

Now, I shudder to think what could have gone on in there with nobody for miles around 🙁

I wish I could remember who interviewed him when he was still a " national treasure" when he said something along the lines of when I'm gone you'll will hear things about me you'll find very hard to believe. I'm doubting myself and wondering if I actually imagined it ? 🤔

Louis Theroux?

"He was definitely part of something bigger."

Is his outrageous character still distracting us?

The cottage in Glen Coe is always Hamish McInnes' place to us.

Oh but it is. He came across as true sociopath too, a dangerous individual as people believed his charm and couldn’t see past the persona.

But many people did see past the persona. I get what you mean but given it was possibly the worst kept secret ever and that the Police knew and were stopped from prosecuting (confirmed by ex police) then its just a fact he was protected and did not just talk his way out of every situation for decades.

desperatebicycle

Same here, it was only decades later when the rumours started. I remember thinking Louis Theroux had gone a bit easy on him watching that interview… but by then… wow, so much damage. At least that shit would be much harder to get away with nowadays.. only positive I can take from The Reckoning.

It's worth watching Louis' follow up video on it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yc9zh/louis-theroux-specials-savile

I’ve not seen any confirmation that police were stopped from prosecuting, just that it was ignored as Jimmy wouldn’t do such a thing and there was lack of evidence other cases. 

I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it

I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory. As one of his victims said, he groomed a nation. Groomers are usually very, very good at what they do. He elevated himself to a position where no-one was prepared to be vocal about his crimes, or those who did were shut down quickly. I don't think there was a wider conspiracy of complicity.

I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it.

I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory

Obviously some people have pushed the potential conspiracy angle on here for years. It may be true, but I doubt it.

It does help rationalise how such evil/damaged people avoid detection for so long. It also hides the uncomfortable truth that child abuse is by nature hidden, secret, and far more likely to be carried out by a close family member or friend rather than "stranger danger" or an international network of celebrity peadophiles.

Not sure how much I'll gain from watching it, know that he's a wrongun and didn't think much of him when I was a kid in the 70s - although I did once enter a fancy competition as Gary Glitter so my wrongun radar wasn't that great 😕

I remember, on this forum, 15 or so years ago, the rumours about him were aired. Great howls of protest went up, ‘He’s a great chap’ or words to that effect.

Still very much in evidence on this forum. Check out the Russell Brand thread.

"Trial by media" (whaa whaa) "Innocent until proven" (wail)

Has enough time passed that it is now understood? RB will get the same eventual acceptance that he's a dirtbag?

Has enough time passed that it is now understood? RB will get the same eventual acceptance that he’s a dirtbag

I think most people can accept he's a dirtbag. The issue is that he's not been convicted of the criminal activity that he's been accused of, which puts commenting on those allegations in a very grey legal area, that could open up individuals, and forums that give them a platform, to legal action for libel, or prejudicing a future trial etc.

Anyway, back to the programme about the guy who can no longer sue us....

Just watched that follow up with Louis , Savile certainly did a number on him . The woman who was his PA in denial , so many on there that he still seems to have a hold on from beyond the grave , so many ruined lives . <br />Listening to the description of the grooming methods reminds me of the lucky escape our son had aged about 11 . Up until that age he’d been at a special school, he would now be on the Autistic Spectrum , he worked his socks off and got into main stream school to his credit . He came home one day all excited that the electrical engineer at the Theatre next to the school was going to show him how all the lighting worked for shows and get him to give a hand backstage . Our son was really naive and saw this as an opportunity outside of school . I sensed something wasn’t quite right so decided to drop by unannounced just to see for myself . The look on the guys face when I walked up to him and introduced myself told me everything I needed to know . Despite our sons protests I stopped him going there on his own . Sure enough in time he was caught and convicted for offences against other boys . The police interviewed our son at length and were 99.9% satisfied that his grooming had only just started and my intervention was very timely .

The parallels with some of Savile’s stories is uncanny although he didn’t usually waste time on the preliminaries 😞

oldfart

I sensed something wasn’t quite right so decided to drop by unannounced just to see for myself . The look on the guys face when I walked up to him and introduced myself told me everything I needed to know . Despite our sons protests I stopped him going there on his own . Sure enough in time he was caught and convicted for offences against other boys . The police interviewed our son at length and were 99.9% satisfied that his grooming had only just started and my intervention was very timely .

Bloody hell, that's awful. My daughter sounds similar to your son so this really struck a chord with me. Great job and well done for trusting your spidey sense.

multi21 parents instinct I guess , some of Savile's victims didn't have that and some had suffered abuse from family members so in some cases didn't stand a chance.

I’ve not seen any confirmation that police were stopped from prosecuting, just that it was ignored as Jimmy wouldn’t do such a thing and there was lack of evidence other cases.

On this, how many people were convicted of doing similar things in the 70s/early 80s? Unfortunately, as we know now, child abuse and paedophilia weren't unusual, but I don't remember any high profile trials. I think that he got away with it because everyone did and he was just another celebrity who did awful things. There's no need for a conspiracy theory because in the 70s policing was corrupt and inept, and general attitudes were rather different to those of today.

I’ve got no doubt he was part of something bigger (a paedophile ring) and this is the real reason he got away with it

It seems more likely to me that he wouldn't have welcomed the competition. His ego was too big to have wanted to share, he was more likely to have viewed it as a competitive sport.

“Innocent until proven” (wail)

... is the cornerstone of our judicial system. Stringing people up from the yardarm for 'looking a bit dodgy' might win brexity voters over, but we stopped doing that for much the same reason that we stopped setting fire to witches.

Trial by angry mob rarely ends well and "trial by social media" is pretty much the modern equivalent of it. Remember that vigilante group who stormed a bloke's house a few years back because rumours ran through town that he was a pediatrician?

It was disturbing viewing but compelling at the same time.  I suspect that part of why he got away with it is that some people pass it off initially but once they think there is real problem they also think they will be in trouble for not reporting sooner or are worried about their reputation for letting it continue.  So they stay quiet.

I think the problem with this is that is kind of leans in towards conspiracy theory. As one of his victims said, he groomed a nation. Groomers are usually very, very good at what they do. He elevated himself to a position where no-one was prepared to be vocal about his crimes, or those who did were shut down quickly. I don’t think there was a wider conspiracy of complicity.

Again, I understand that view however its exactly this sort of attitude/initial reaction towards it that helped keep Savile going. "Oh no it couldn't possibly be true, its just a conspiracy theory". Not aiming that at you btw.

Personally I can't grasp or make sense of this 'lone gunman' theory and to me, that's far more of a conspiracy theory than the paedophile ring. Paedophile rings exist, no question. So to think Savile was part of one is nowhere near conspiracy at all. The lone gunman theory also conveniently lets many others off the hook so to speak, means no further investigating and the likes of the Royals and the BBC etc dust off their grubby hands and walk away scott free. Highly convenient.

But also...

Never attest to design, that which can be explained by apathy. or something.

Paedophile rings exist, no question. So to think Savile was part of one is nowhere near conspiracy at all.

Alligators exist, no question. Did anyone ever check his teeth? I THINK NOT!!!1!

Assuming that the drama is in any way accurate, it's fairly clear how he operated. He was charismatic, he was powerful, he was popular, he was well-loved, he was coercive, he was deeply manipulative. And as is often the case, who's going to believe the word of a 15-year old over someone like Russ- uh, Jimmy Savile?

There was no paedophile ring here, because he didn't need one.

The production is piss poor, original film shows him in a giant Merc van then cut to coogan in something only vaguely similar and has whoever did his wig ever see photos of Jimmy or just been told he has white hair?

I know these are minor things in the whole film but if you're going to include archive footage, perhaps make sure everything matches up because clearly he's an utter scumbag and has caused untold damage but if you've not done your homework in in one area it leaves you open to questions in other areas.

Also is this a whole new show? Some bits are giving me real deja vu. I'm very sure I've seen the scene where he picks up the two girls who don't really know who he is before.

The production is piss poor, original film shows him in a giant Merc van then cut to coogan in something only vaguely similar and has whoever did his wig ever see photos of Jimmy or just been told he has white hair?

Can’t recall the van scene in detail but the hair was fairly spot on and changed as as he got older.

Also is this a whole new show? Some bits are giving me real deja vu. I’m very sure I’ve seen the scene where he picks up the two girls who don’t really know who he is before.

No, it’s all brand new so you are having a Mandela Effect. 

The van's were different, but I'm guessing the production used what was available.

I'm struggling to think of how to suitably word this, but I took this production as being to tell the story and give some insight into who he was, and how he treated/manipulated/abused people based on known details, not to be a 100% accurate reconstruction.

Spot on. 

It was billed as a drama based on factual events and victim/witness testimony, not a reconstruction.