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Ermigaad I just realised I put 5 points on the board on Tuesday.
So not only did I achieve my aim of not being swallowed by the chase group but I also achieved my goal of breaking my duck!
Get in!
I saw the post last night, starting typing then thought "Nah!"
I guess my default response is this, I do it for fun, for a laugh with the banter, I don't take it seriously at all cos I know I'm never going to be anywhere near that leader board. Some races will suit me, some will not. I just try my best.
For sure without Weeksy starting all this off on STW and other people getting involved with the different events and meetup's we all have then I wouldn't enjoy Zwift the way I do now, I'd be riding round on my own, Billy no mates. You lot have inspired me, entertained me and made me work harder to improve my zwift riding, it's been a god send in lockdown.
Sad that it becomes so serious to some, it's not meant to be a pro race, I commend Robbo for what he has created, I wouldn't have the time to get involved with all the handicaps etc.
Just enjoy it for what it is!
I might have to do another ramp test, or find out what I'm doing wrong. I struggle on the flat. On paper I should be fine but I just can't maintain the power like I can on a big climb. I'm not spinning out but the fatigue is huge. Its almost as if my legs need the high resistance.
The races themselves are great motivation to really push yourself, but the results themselves are fairly meaningless. With all respect to robbo, the handicaps will always benefit some riders over others due to the draft affect. Basically the weakest rider in the group gets the most points. That's why, whilst on paper the weakest 'a' rider, I am the leading 'a' when it comes to the handicap standings. I just sit in draft and get towed round and get same time. It's pretty obvious really, so no idea why someone would think its down to cheating.
Ultimately it's just a little fun..it's blindingly obvious who the strongest rider competing is (c revell)
I think the series is great however only feedback would be maybe mix things up a bit next time..ie a tt would favour some of the better riders as it would take the element of draft out, however i agree it should only be a 1 off and not form basis of any series.
yep agree with that, would be good to mix it up with some one-off races like a TT (even though personally I hate them!) I also still think it would be great to have 1 "chase race" where everyone waits until their handicap comes up then shoots off, that way the faster riders get the benefit of the draft as they blast through the slower riders (and theoretically, should come down to a proper sprint finish where whoever crosses the line first actually gets the most points!)that’s why, whilst on paper the weakest ‘a’ rider, I am the leading ‘a’ when it comes to the handicap standings. I just sit in draft and get towed round and get same time. It’s pretty obvious really, so no idea why someone would think its down to cheating.Ultimately it’s just a little fun..it’s blindingly obvious who the strongest rider competing is (c revell)
I think the series is great however only feedback would be maybe mix things up a bit next time..ie a tt would favour some of the better riders as it would take the element of draft out, however i agree it should only be a 1 off and not form basis of any series.
ALSO maybe there should be an award for the fastest overall rider... like a GC... got to be some recognition for that I think!! Tot up the cumulative time for everyone who's finished EVERY race (which actually wouldn't be c revell cos I don't think he's raced every time so far?)
On paper I should be fine but I just can’t maintain the power like I can on a big climb. I’m not spinning out but the fatigue is huge. Its almost as if my legs need the high resistance.
Is that not pretty normal? No way i could put out my ftp on the flat as easy as on a climb.
Is that not pretty normal?
I think its very much down to the rider, there are plenty of folks you can see in races who hammer along to the base of a climb at w/kg that makes me queasy to read only to drop down to way under my steady output as soon as the road kicks up.
Right, here's a potentially contentious question then.
What if a rider feels their FTP/figures are overly high ? I'm not in the place i was at the time of putting in my FTP figure, with the broken hand and still a dadgy/bruised calf muscle, i'm properly struggling in races at the moment, peaking way down on where i should be.
Now, i'm not saying i want to drop figures in this series as it's not far from over... But say if we did a winter series, are we OK with people doing an FTP test/Ramp test to get a lower figure ? All we can do of course is trust people are putting in 100%.
Looking at my race profile i'm closer to 260-270w than the 290w i was 3 months ago
https://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=164586
Is that not pretty normal?
No, it depends on the rider. Whilst flat races favour my build which affects things I find it far harder to ride close to or above my FTP for extended efforts on hills than on the flat. From his posts I'd guess Weeksy is in a similar boat to me. It's been apparent on Sunday Hills where I can pull with the group on the flat well but get spat out the back hard on climbs if I'm not right on it.
I climb at a far lower cadence than I ride on the flat but it's the only way I can get the power down, it means big climbs hurt a lot but on shorter rises I can usually hang in but push relatively big numbers for me (makes the TTT hard though).
Yup, at my peak i can flat for 30 mins at 290w...i can't climb at 290w for that length of time, trust me, i've tried.
I think that's fair - fitness goes down as well as up sometimes!!are we OK with people doing an FTP test/Ramp test to get a lower figure ? All we can do of course is trust people are putting in 100%.
You see, I'm the opposite. I find it hard to sustain an effort on the flat and usually end up being spat out the back of a group, usually cos I'm typing 😉
Hills give me a little release, now I'm far from a climbing god, but I am okay on hills under 30 minutes if I'm feeling ok and I can get into a rhythm. My favorite races are a mix of both, like the Innsbruck one.
Weeksy - I'm ok with updated ramp tests, I probably need to do one at some point as I always use the FTP I get whilst normal riding.
Weeksy, why not just do a test and get your ftp changed if you are bothered? I’d trust you 😉. I think others have updated figures. Only issue I’d see is that it’s more work for Robbo, and it’s already lots of work. If there is a winter series (please Robbo!) then I’m sure we’ll be able to revise our figures.
are we OK with people doing an FTP test/Ramp test to get a lower figure ?
I guess it's an individual thing, but I'd never want to do that. If I've been able to ride at a certain level previously I'd use that as the motivation to try and get back to that point. I think getting to your previous level of fitness is a better goal than improving your results in a friendly race series by making it easier- YMMV.
I'm not sure how much is fitness, how much is multiple injuries and how much is down to a couple of other things that are not for public discussion, but i'm not sure at the moment i can see the other figures again in honesty..
I am happy if anyone wants to do an FTP test and adjust their figure either way. Some people have updated as we have gone through (most going up) but happy to accommodate this (as long as it isn't everyone!). I wont publish the handicaps until Sunday evening so if anyone wants to modify theirs do a ramp test before then.
You see, I’m the opposite. I find it hard to sustain an effort on the flat and usually end up being spat out the back of a group
Ok that makes me feel better, I've not raced much on Zwift and just accepted what is the result as i don't know anything about the other racers.
Look forward to the next race, cheers.
I struggle on the flat. On paper I should be fine but I just can’t maintain the power like I can on a big climb. I’m not spinning out but the fatigue is huge. Its almost as if my legs need the high resistance.
Most people find it easier to sustain a high threshold on a climb rather than on the flat. You've got more to push against, gravity decelerates the bike between pedal strokes so your foot is accelerating during the power part of the pedal stroke, on the flat it is more like pedalling in circles. Lots of people pooh-pooh cadence drills and doing threshold efforts on the flat as rather than uphill as antiquated - but I think it helps adaptation.
Nothing could be further from the truth! I have no history of cycling and only took up mountain biking in my fifties to try and loose weight
In cycling lore people talk about loosing 1% of top end for every year past the age of 36, which could be rubbish, but if true then you would've been pretty elite if you started cycling earlier - either way you should be pretty competitive in age group races.
In cycling lore people talk about loosing 1% of top end for every year past the age of 36
Damn - I am 37 next Friday so next week will be my last race at that FTP - 1% reduction for me the week after next! Guess this will be my peak! 🙂
In all seriousness though I hope to hit 330W by middle of next year. Currently 2.6-2.8 w/kg depending on how I am feeling (sometimes 2.9 if the climb is short!). If I can couple with losing weight and keeping it off (I am a bit yoyoing with my weight) I might make the top half of 3.5 to 4 w/kg. That's my long term goal (well 6 months) in any case. 4 w/kg would mean I would have to hit 82.5 kg with a 330w FTP. My FTP in September 2018 was 204 on a tacx which overmeasured by 10% so more like 180W! I reckon my next ramp test in 10 days I should hit 280w and I have been doing structured training for about 10 months. Now have an elite direto so think the accuracy is a lot better!
EDIT: Just checked last weeks TTT and hit 284W normalised power for 46 mins which prob my best ever performance but I was hitting over 300W on the hills but needed the rest breaks in the draft on the flats at like 200-220W.
Depressing to know my peak is behind me! I must say that I've made no gains in my ftp since last year, so unfortunately I think I've already hit my very very modest peak.
All these folks that are looking to improve power, by far the easiest way to get faster is just carry no excess weight. My power output is hopeless, however since dropping 20 kg over the past 2 years I'm reasonably competitive. Losing the pork has been so much easier than any kind of wattage gain and since I was a bit overweight my power has not been affected.
I would literally kill to have an ftp of 330. It would put me at 5 watts per kilo at current weight. Never ever going to happen however.
I'd be happy just to have an ftp that didn't (currently) feel like the result of some freak moment of over achievement.
Just going to throw my thoughts in...
I have joined into Robbo's Zwift race series to try and help with my general riding fitness, I was never under any illusions about getting into top placings, but purely wanted an enjoyable way to get some extra fitness motivation/boost rather than trudging around a Zwift circuit on my own. From this aspect its been brilliant, I'm eagerly looking forward to race nights and its got my motivation up generally for getting on the turbo..
To me part of the appeal of this series is trying my hardest during the racing, and then reading the banter and comments in this thread after the race and having a chuckle.
Handicaps are always going to favour some whilst making if difficult for others - surely this series is much more about having some fun whilst racing rather than the overall goal of a top 3 placing ?
I want to thank Robbo for taking the time and effort to put the series together and hope that it carries on in a similar 'fun' way rather than getting all too serious about watts and FTP numbers..
I’ve just done a ramp test, ftp according to the test is 262. Over the last 6 weeks I’ve been training again so expected to see some improvement. First race moved my FTP up to 241 (unrealistically low so I raced the series on 250). Second race 245, then after the third race 252. But thought I’d recheck today and 262.
I’m more than happy for Tuesdays race to be amended to show my FTP at 262.
I used to race years ago so even though I was still social riding I wasn’t training during lock down. My fitness dropped to an FTP of 230 (Sufferfest FTP year). I also thought that was far to low as was probably more me not being used to “suffering” rather than distinct lack of fitness. Now I’m back in a Training programme I did expect to see fairly quick gains based on a lifetime of riding, racing and being generally fit.
Thanks Twisty, that makes sense. All about the fun for me but also good to know why my strengths/weakness seem arse about face.
What training tool are folks using to do their ramp test? My ftp is based on a full on hour climbing alp duez on the tacx app. Conveniently from bottom to tour finish (so quite a bit longer than the zwift version) takes me pretty much an hr (58 min). The resulting ftp is near identical to the ramp test I'd did at a similar point, so it's obviously an accurate and far more convenient way of doing it.
Only issue is I'm no longer signed up to trainer road.
@tpbiker you can do it from Zwift. https://zwiftinsider.com/new-ramp-test/
I use the zwift one as well. Reasonably tough but no where near as sickening as the Sufferfest 4DP one.
My climb up the Alpe is 53 mins but can’t remember what I averaged, was pretty much maxed out.
jamesoz
Full Member
I might have to do another ramp test, or find out what I’m doing wrong. I struggle on the flat. On paper I should be fine but I just can’t maintain the power like I can on a big climb. I’m not spinning out but the fatigue is huge. Its almost as if my legs need the high resistance.
I'm the same. Dunno why, but just can't hold the same output on the flat as on the climbs.
I can get to the same value, I just can't sustain it because it's too difficult. It makes no sense to me why this should be the case.
detailed history of my zwift racing stats etc mainly to address Laughgovs accusations of cheating. Which as one of the consistent point earners that he seems to take umbrage with must be.
however i lost it before posting and can't be bothered again.
to say my zwifpwoer was 242 my racing earlier this year, which I always pick short and flat races, as all been around 230w average. I have been struggling to reach towards the 3.1/3.2 cut off from the catB. whereas last year I couldn't get under it so raced catb for a short while.
my weight is correct and same as on zwift.
I have absolutely beasted myself in all three races, probably due to the tactic of trying to jump onto the lead group and last as long as i can.
I got an ftp increase notice to 252, I think, after the insbruck race which I mentioned on here.
I've done a few other races in between robbos for example averaging 236w a win on the flat and 243w 17th on a hilly race. probably due to sticking with the same cat c.
The crazy 4 laps hanging with the lead around the volcano lead to a FTP notice on zwift to 267w. if appropriate im happy to uplift to this. After my recent period of racing and best 20minute spell according to zwift power which is 274 x95% = 260.4
I'm happy to increase to either if it makes a difference and as some people it seems are starting to get a little picky.
Its probably sensible as I appear to be
consistently well placed amongst my fellow CatC before the handicap its only right that I should have a closer handicap to the strongest catC riders.
I did a short zwift ramp test on a flat London circuit and my FTP dropped.
I did a zwift crit race on their short circuit and my FTP went up a little.
Ramp test didn't really work for me as I hadn't warmed up.
Crit race was better but also un/realistic because of the drafting element?
My climb up the Alpe is 53 mins but can’t remember what I averaged, was pretty much maxed out.
The zwift version takes me about the same, it's too short for an ftp test. The version on the tacx app I have is slightly longer and absolutely perfect for an hour of suffering.
Just checked my PB on the climb up the Alpe, 52:39, at 257 watts back in Feb.
I did the Alpe a lot over the winter as wanted the Tron bike.
I did a short zwift ramp test on a flat London circuit and my FTP dropped.
I did a zwift crit race on their short circuit and my FTP went up a little.
Ramp test didn’t really work for me as I hadn’t warmed up.
Crit race was better but also un/realistic because of the drafting element?
Your power is your power, drafting just affects your speed.
Prob with a crit 20 min is that a proper 20 min FTP test has an initial clearing effort to drain the anaerobic inputs - one's I've done use a hard 5 min block, after which you'll think there's no way you can face 20 but of course you can with a bit of recovery. So I'm not sure how zwift handles that in processing the 20 min power number - if it is just ignored or approximated in some way.
My ftp estimate from crits was always too high by quite a bit, I think for this reason. But it will depend on each person's anaerobic capacity, which can vary significantly person to person. Ramp test will usually benchmark ftp pretty well.
My best alpe is 53.03 at 327W. Good power I guess, just shame about the mass my legs need to lug up the hill! Can’t put that power out just now, but will do another test once my cold has gone properly.
FWIW I've done the zwift ramp test a few times, it consistently puts my ftp at <250w which, for me, is bobbins. I'm not sure the figure it's lifted from a crit is likely to be right either but I'm a lot closer to that (over?) estimate than the ramp test one.
That said, I'm not an actual racer, for all its actually worth it's a good bar for me to judge my self by but it would be no more or less meaningful if it was a scale of blue to red than numbers, its just easier to see a change of 1w in a number than in an rgb value...
As a newcomer to STW I have to say that it’s been great fun to race so closely with a large group. Most Zwift races (and as level 36 I’ve done a lot) are very impersonal affairs, and this series plus the forum plus the ttt make it much more interesting, and something to look forward to.
There are too many variables to take it seriously - I dropped 45w when I changed to a top of the line trainer two years ago and it’s taken me until now to get back to the same level.
One thing that could improve the experience a lot for me is if all you guys under 91kg would stop telling me what your weight is, because that’s getting old real fast 😁
One thing that could improve the experience a lot for me is if all you guys under 91kg would stop telling me what your weight is, because that’s getting old real fast 😁
I could lie about it if you like? Probably improve my handicap a bit mind.
Blimey, all this time I've been wasting my time on the TdF threads with their frankly amateur bantz on the subject of foul play 🙂
Next week I'm off work and hoping (unless MrsPants has other plans) to do my only race of the STW season. I have no idea of my current FTP and even less intention to test it. Please Sir, uncle Robbo, can you fix it for me to race but be excluded from the points (and the massive haul I'll undoubtedly scoop) ?
(I can produce weight evidence but it'll be a gorgeously-naked selfie on our bathroom scales)
^^ I feel sick enough after a Zwift race already thanks Scaredy.😁
(I can produce weight evidence but it’ll be a gorgeously-naked selfie on our bathroom scales)
We all got asked for a video of us hula-hooping naked on our scales after we signed up any way.
Quite why he only asked each of us individually and after we'd submitted our numbers I don't know.
Hang on, now I type that it sounds like I've been conned. I'm not the only one am I? 😭
Oh dear,
Can I report myself to the disciplinary committee please.
Just realised I inadvertently did that last race with my wife's height, so I was a foot shorter than I should've been, making the Zwift drag calculation lower.
Sorry about that, somehow only changed back the weight and not the height.
Robbo, feel free to use this as my 100% 20mins.... (techincally 22 mins) but i don't have any more to give than that over that time/distance.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1069944
ooh, does height make a difference in the zwift calcs too then??
(not that mine is incorrect, I just didn't know it would have an effect!)
DrP. 70kg.
One thing that could improve the experience a lot for me is if all you guys under 91kg would stop telling me what your weight is, because that’s getting old real fast 😁
eek, soz, lolz.... 😉
yep, I remember reading a ZI article on it, it makes a BIG difference as they use it (along with weight) to calculate your CdAooh, does height make a difference in the zwift calcs too then??
ooh, does height make a difference in the zwift calcs too then??
Quite a bit
I never realised that you can height dope as well! For once my below average height is giving me a benefit!
So, let me get my online presence right...
On Tinder I want to be Tall and muscly, so about 85kg adn 6foot 2....
On Zwift I want to be short and light , so about 50kg and 5 feet (to avoid suspicion...)
For my passport application, I'll just keep it real eh...
DrP
😉
There's hope for me yet then, I'm probably getting shorter faster than I am lighter!
Hmmm...must measure my height. Put in 6’3” which will be slowing me down a bit by the sound of it. That was my height a few years ago. Suspect I must have shrunk to 6’2” by now. Marginal gains and all that!
^^Measure yourself later in the day after your spine has compressed a little. Sorted.👍😁
Anyone else coming on a recce tomorrow morning on this route then ? See the social Zwift thread.
I'll be trying more than some i imagine as they outclimb me, but i won't be going full chat for sure.
Remember if you want to change ftp, weight, height, inside leg or head circumference let me know tomorrow as I will publish the handicaps tomorrow evening.
I had a fairly bad crash couple of days ago. Pranged my thigh and knee. Is it ok if I join the meet and bimble along or is that taking a slot from someone else? I might just join the meet in fact and not even pedal much but watch the other riders as a spectator and join in the banter. Depends how my leg feels.
I don't usually get to see the tactics and sprints of the fast buggers as I'm in a different time zone to them after the first few mins!😁
weeksy
Full Member
Anyone else coming on a recce tomorrow morning on this route then ? See the social Zwift thread.
Not for me. I scrubbed & painted the shed today - so tomorrow I will be mostly struggling to move properly.
Only thing is, I'm taking my daughter swimming first thing, then the in-laws are coming for lunch & I need to get a second coat of stuff on the shed in the afternoon.
Oh, and I said I'd wash my Wife's car. That's not gonna happen, is it?! 🙂
See you all on Tues evening.
Poopscoop you are fine coming along. There is space for 100 riders. 77 get the invite. We seem to average about 50-55 taking the start line and about 45 finishing each race.
Poopscoop heal quick or I will have no ones wheel to try and hang on
OK handicaps for Stage 4 are now available.
I have also done a tab for the GC where if a rider has completed all 3 races I have provided a total time.
Also unless anyone has any objections after watching the TDF today instead of London Classique for the final round I think it would be more suitable to go to Paris...let me know thoughts. Cheers
Also unless anyone has any objections after watching the TDF today instead of London Classique for the final round I think it would be more suitable to go to Paris…let me know thoughts.
Absolutely.
And bugger I appear to be quite differently handicapped this week.
better idea, can we replace Harrogate with London and then finish in Paris?
You need to stop improving mrhoppy!
Yorkshire is staying I am afraid. My wife comes from Yorkshire and removing it from the calendar isn’t worth the grief!
Nay luck Mrhoppy, you are now with us regular C's!
I'm looking forward to this one.
And as a Yorkshireman...keep Harrogate, even though I die everytime on that course.
worth a try.
just checked the handicaps. quite a difference. not far from some of the Bs. I need to aim to stick to a different group or ill be way behind in combined times.
extra motivation to get a wiggle on.
Just a survival race for me this one. Today's warm up ride there showed me what pace I can or can't do.
Paris ok with me , see you Tuesday.
4 mins into the Cs I think I might stand a chance of but 3 mins into DrP sounds like more of a challenge. Well I know who to keep ahead of at least.
See you all Tuesday
Woke up with very stiff left hamstring and achy shoulders/back/arms. Arms probably not too much of an issue.
Then spend 3.5hrs painting a second coat of brown stuff on the shed. It looks good, but I'm knackered! Tuesday should be fun.
I think I quite enjoy the road to ruins route.
Probably change my mind in a couple of days...
It is just one lap isn't it?
Cheers robbo, I'll definitely log in and have a little spin.
jaminb
Poopscoop heal quick or I will have no ones wheel to try and hang on
Cheers bud but you definitely don't want to be on my wheel this week matey.😁
A ridiculously slow crash (jogging speed?) but one of the most painful crashes I've ever had. Thigh/ hip and one butt cheek black and blue and ballooned up. Otb and landed on the edge of a deep rut, I think that's why it hurt so much.
One arse cheek looks like it belongs to Kim Kad, its huge.
IvanDobski
Free Member
It is just one lap isn’t it?
Yeah, seems to be from the mileage.
Looking forward to this! But still full of head cold And also trying the ‘100 day challenge’ still... chest and legs feeling weak as hell!
My mission is to stick with a bunch and drift at 250watts... if a break happens, or a tough climb that might split, I REALLY don’t have a 450w sprint in my jelly legs at the mo!
But... I do have copious amounts of snot and phlegm, if anyone wants..?!!
DrP
I was much the same last week DrP, exercise seemed to get rid pretty well, just remember a bucket under the turbo, or doesn't mop up as easy as sweat.
But… I do have copious amounts of snot and phlegm, if anyone wants..?!!
And there I was enjoying my breakfast.
Recce of road to ruins, followed by some weights then Moved three bedrooms and their contents around yesterday. along with lots of hoovering while the beds were out, refitting kids led lights etc woke up feel like I’d been hit by a bus this morning. Don’t know if my cold and chest has gone worse or I’ve just inhaled too much dust.
Such a shame not to ride out today but need a rest.
I might start a new post for this, but....
Bike Phone Mounts - does anyone have any recommendations for a decent cheap one for use while on the turbo.
It doesn't need to be sleek/aero etc. or particularly robust given that it's gonna remain stationary on the turbo trainer.
It occurred to me the other day after ~3 years+ of Zwift that I should put my phone on the bars to make it a bit easier to access.
If it matters, current phone is just over 6" long x 3" wide with case on, but I'm replacing that soon with a slightly smaller one.
thanks dangeourbrain - looks ideal. I've got some in black; would that also work?
I have something like this that I don't use anymore but works fine for holding a phone on the bars and is nice and cheap.
I won't be able to race tomorrow. Work is getting in the way. ☹️
Black is also good but you should take care to ensure that you remain above the correct amount of not black on your bike.
Failing that I've had a couple of cheapest I could find amazon /ebay ones over the last few months. All have done fine until I took the bike outside.
Truth be told stumpy I found having the phone on the bars just resulted in me drowning it in sweat. It works better for me to have it in easy reach and pick it up on the odd occasions I've something hilarious to say.
It works better for me to have it in easy reach and pick it up on the odd occasions I’ve something hilarious to say.
No need to pick it up then 😉
i prefer the keyboard for the typing, especially being a bit 1 handed at the moment.