[Closed] SRAM one upping Shimano... 10-52t

Am I the only one who thought that while Shimano looked a bit silly going to 51 to beat SRAM, SRAM look even sillier for coming back with 'just one more tooth'..?

Is this going to be the start of some kind of ridiculous gear war where we end up with massive cassette's and 40t chainrings under the guise of 'improved drivetrain efficiency'..?? God I hope not.

Mine goes up to 11

with massive cassette’s and 40t chainrings

New Boost Minus frames to accommodate mega chainrings.

Nah, development and competition is a good thing. If that's bigger range cassette, so be it.

Still waiting for an 200mm reverb AXS though, SRAM.

And GX Eagle AXS would be nice, too. They're probably saving that for when Shimano release their electronic XT/XTR groupsets.

What if this is the preamble to introducing a new wheelsize.!! 'Sorry but the mech for our new 10-62 cassette would drag on the ground with 29" wheels so we'd like to introduce our "new" 36" wheel standard, with 20mm thru-axle for increased rigidity and 126mm spacing for heel clearance..!'  AAArrrghhhhh..!

Rotor goes up to 13...

H1ghland3r
Member

Am I the only one who thought that while Shimano looked a bit silly going to 51 to beat SRAM, SRAM look even sillier for coming back with ‘just one more tooth’..?

Is this going to be the start of some kind of ridiculous gear war

Yes it's a bit silly but not how you see it I think. SRAM have led all the way on this, from narrow/wides to larger cassettes (twice) to 10T. 1x has been an absolute gamechanger. Shimano have missed every boat but did pull a bit of a blinder with the 51T "this goes one bigger" so they could grab back some of the market without doing any of the work. The difference between 50, 51 and 52T is very small, but it's still "one more" so is being frantically sold that way. Can't fault SRAM for playing the same game.

Besides, we've been in a ridiculous gear war since at least the 90s 😉

Rear mechs are just getting closer to the ground and weaker, it's time to stop, who the hell needs 52t, thats one helluva steep climb.
At this rate tyres will find their limit before the cranks get too hard to spin.
That copper version is so nice though.

I wonder if the new Mechs will be more robust than the old ones?

I say this as a GX owner with a brand new XT M8100 mech on my desk...

Erm... All they're doing is replacing the 50T with a 52T... Making what is already a fairly sizeable gap at the low end of the cassette, even bigger! 🤦🏻

I've been on SRAM Eagle for years, and I now have SLX 12spd on my Hardtail. I must say that Shimano have put a lot more thought into their gear ratios rather than just the spinal tap approach. The lowest 3 gears, the 51-45-39 are all closer spaced than on the SRAM, the ones you use for climbing. Then there's a larger % wise gap from the 39 to the 33, but this is less of an issue, as it's the gear you're likely to go to once you've crested the climb (and on SRAM, I'm often double shifting at this point anyway), and from there on down both cassettes are similar.

Introducing a 10T gap at the bottom of the range on the SRAM... No thanks!

Erm… All they’re doing is replacing the 50T with a 52T… Making what is already a fairly sizeable gap at the low end of the cassette, even bigger! 🤦🏻

It certainly doesn't seem like there has been much effort put in, even if it was all marketing, Shimano at least tried to explain their 51T as something other than 'just a bit bigger than that other lot'.  I seem to remember Shimano getting slated for doing the same thing with their 11-46 cassette which had a huge jump on it that everyone thought was heinous and went and bought SunRace instead.

What's the point?

I've got a 32t chainring and 10-50 GX. Actually balancing on the bike in 32-50 is a challenge. Why did it need to go lower? It's like suspension "you don't actually need to use all of it every ride", well no, but having had the old drivechain obsoleted I feel aggrieved having to carry a 100g 50t sprocket up every hill for the next 5 years.

TBH I originally intended to go micro spline and use Shimano's 10-45 cassette, but it doesn't actually weigh less (as far as the quoted weights go) so seems fairly pointless apart from smaller jumps. Now can't decide what freehub to get, given the better availability of XD hubs I could save the price difference of GX Vs XT anyway by not getting Hope or DT and that's 2x cassettes, say 18months each if I singlespeed the worst of the winter that takes me to 2025 by which point standards will be different anyway!

I had to check it wasn't April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Wishful thinking time as it's ostensibly a completely revised group set not just a big sprocket:

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it's OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

Perhaps if the first 11 ratios haven't changed, they have at least shed some weight from them?

13thfloormonk

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Yes, it is. !00%. For multiple different reasons.

Yes but....that copper would go smashing with my copper Nukeproof Horizons. I’m such a punter 😂.

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

Or a smaller chainring. I had a 10-50 GX cassette on my old bike and only used the 50T a couple of times, the new bike has 12spd XT and I have never used the 51 at all, and that's with moving from 27.5" to 29" wheels as well.

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it’s OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

This is cool, but I wonder if they've found something better than window putty to use for making the bottom brackets to go with them...?

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

The macaroni cheese that my kids made for my lunch is more durable than a SRAM rear mech, but I do hope this is one area that they've finally got sorted now. As always, Shimano have been very slow to get to the table, but now they are there, their kit is /really/ good, especially in the mid-range...

The revised rear mechs will be more durable.

I dont think they could make them any less durable, for sure!

This is cool, but I wonder if they’ve found something better than window putty to use for making the bottom brackets to go with them…?

To be fair on them, I've not had a bad GXP since about 2014. That one lasted about 4 rides before dying and being replaced with a shimano crankset. Since then they've all died for other reasons, the last one did 100 miles on my SS (plus whatever it did before that) before dying when hopping over a water bar and landing with the water bar jammed between crank and BB!

So far DUB's been fine, but is only a couple of hundred dry miles old.

The alloy GX chainset will disappear as SRAM will use it’s OEM pricing to undercut SLX/XT with the GX carbon chainset.

The chainset isn't really new, its just the first time its had GX written on it and so I dont think it would make more or less of a dent than before.

I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

The front mech is a relic and deserves no place on a modern MTB.

And are the new mechs ACTUALLY lower? The 52t is compatible with the AXS mechs which are 10mm higher and have more chain wrap, vs the 'old' non electronic mechs.

who the hell needs 52t, thats one helluva steep climb.

Come to the Pennines, there are some climbs/times that you'd probably be able to usefully use a 52t cassette.

I live in Kent and regularly use the 50t on my bike (32t front, 29er), especially at the end of a ride or when you're not bothered about how fast you get to the top, and/or your legs are dead.

Yeah the gap is 2t bigger, but the eagle gear was always a bail out gear, this one is just a bit more!

Come on, admit it, who's been in thier 50t and still tried to shift one lower? I have, I know.

And, the 10-50t isn't going anywhere, it's not a replacement, it's a 2nd option. Don't want/need the 52t? Buy the 50t version.

I can't help but wonder if 1x isn't actually working for many people. That size ring could be sorted by a smaller front ring (but then loses top end speed). Top end speed requires a larger front ring, which makes climbing harder as the gears aren't low enough.

I'm running Eagle but I'm finding I'm not using first as often as I feared - admittedly last 3 months have been relatively flat.

However, I'm unsure people really need that, so is it pandering to those who can't in the hope that they will?

I really like 1x but have also no problems with 2x or 3x as I know I'll find a gear that I can turn (unless it gets steep and my lungs stop working). Not a brag as I'm definitely slow and steady, I just don't get the need for such a massive cassette...

I can’t help but wonder if 1x isn’t actually working for many people.

I’ve been running 1x for years, 1x9 with a 30t front (terrible) 1x10 and 1x11 with 1x11 32/42 it wasn’t quite there for me, I’d end up pushing a lot (I’m old and fat) 32/46 was better, but 32/50 was the first set up that let me climb the same stuff I could with 2x and not losing too much top end, as I recall if you’re spinning out in top you’re really shifting.

Looks like I'm in the minority here but I certainly use the 50t. For me it's a definite bail out gear (or when out of principle I'd like to at least try to ride a steep incline rather than give in and walk) so the gap doesn't bother me. Sure it won't on the 52 either.

Not read the article yet, will the 52 work with the current Eagle mechs?

Edit: I see a new mech is needed but I wonder if the standard Eagle shifter still works?

I don’t like this. Agree with most comments above.

Yes, some people need lower gears then others. But then, who needs high speed gears on their mtb? Most of the time, on real mtb trails, your descending speed is limited by skill in cornering and braking, not by you spinning out.

If you want lower gears, just put a smaller chainring on!
Improves ground clearance too.

In the early days of the EWS(11 speed, 10-42), I remember Jerome Clementz saying he didn’t put more than a 34t chainring on the front, often 32t because the speeds he could pedal a 36t up to were to dangerous, and he’d have to brake to much for the technical sections.
That is coming from someone with best in the world handling skills, and in a racing situation. Most of us have neither.

I agree that in some situations, 420% range was a bit limiting for some people. But for mtb use, 460%, let along 500%, is already more range than needed.

And then of course, there is the whole why do we need 12 gears question. In mtb, you either go up or down. Al we need is a few moderate steps at the easy end, then a bunch of big jumps up to the top speed. 10 cogs is plenty for that.

Holy dinner plates and sprocket tooth jumps, Batman!

If they get much bigger, the rear wheel will become a semi-aero disc rear. 😆

In mtb, you either go up or down

10's of trail centres across the UK would disagree with you there.

Al we need is a few moderate steps at the easy end, then a bunch of big jumps up to the top speed.

So, you spend no time in the middle of the cassette? For me, that's my most used gears. Trails which are downhill but not steep enough to not need a few pedal strokes when coming out of a corner, for instance.

Some people also ride their MTB's on the road, to get to trails... Shhh!!! 90rpm on a 32x10, 29ers wheel is 25mph - on a nice smooth tarmac, slight downhill or tailwind, that's not that hard to sit at.

Of course, you can always ignore the 10-52t cassette and just buy the 10-50t, which isn't going away. 🙂

I use the top and bottom of a Shimano 10-51 pretty much every ride. Admittedly with a 34t chainring.

On the subject of mechs hanging lower, I suspect it's not true. On paper yes but only in the lowest gears, where it tends to be less likely to take a hit (and at that point, it's as far inbound as it can). The actual gear you're in has such a big effect on this as to make direct comparison not really work I think.

thisisnotaspoon
Subscriber

What’s the point?

I’ve got a 32t chainring and 10-50 GX. Actually balancing on the bike in 32-50 is a challenge. Why did it need to go lower?

It hasn't, it's gone wider range- sure, if you don't change the front then it's lower but it gives you the potential to go a little higher at the front for better top speeding.

If it works it works, it's 2t more than the old one, i have the 10-50 and use pretty much all the back end including the 50t more than i'm down in the 10t terrain, i can't think of a time, bar going down steep roads where i would risk being in such a high gear, for me i wonder why they eeked out that high gear side to 9t or 10t when it's barely used by most.

As for the 50t, it's a great push up path gear, or around my area, the quick slog to the top, but on techy stuff it isn't really that much more use, if i'm in it and doing a tech climb the front wheel is so light i know i'm walking pretty soon, that's on anything with a low gear over 44t, let alone 52t!

Size isn’t everything, it’s how you use it.

My experience is,

Sram is overpriced tat.

Shimano is under appreciated quality

“ Trails which are downhill but not steep enough to not need a few pedal strokes when coming out of a corner, for instance“
Indeed, common situation. But in that situation, you don’t need tiny jumps form gear to gear like a roadie sitting in a pack at the limit of their sustainable power.

“ Some people also ride their MTB’s on the road, to get to trails… Shhh!!! 90rpm on a 32×10, 29ers wheel is 25mph – on a nice smooth tarmac, slight downhill or tailwind, that’s not that hard to sit at”

I disagree , the vast majority of people, can not sustain 25mph on anything resembling a flat road on their mtb, barring a gale force tailwind. But anyway, it doesn’t really matter if many people can or or only a few, because the people who CAN pedal their mtb at 25mph on a nearly flat road, can also pedal a 32x46 up any climb.

“ I use the top and bottom of a Shimano 10-51 pretty much every ride. Admittedly with a 34t chainring.“
Yes, once you have it, you often end up using it. But if you had a smaller cassette, and a 32t or 30t chainring, how often would you end up really struggling because of the lower top end?

It hasn’t, it’s gone wider range- sure, if you don’t change the front then it’s lower but it gives you the potential to go a little higher at the front for better top speeding.

This is 100% the point.

Lots of folk claim they spin out on descents on a 1x system, this is for them, not the spinners.

Bit of a damp squib innit.

I'm going back to 11sp anyway, recently got a 460% range cassette (10-46t) and that is plenty enough for me, it was a revelation riding on some big hills recently actually.

Bit of a damp squib innit.

I’m going back to 11sp anyway, recently got a 460% range cassette (10-46t) and that is plenty enough for me, it was a revelation riding on some big hills recently actually.

Quite. Rather than all this expensive narrow-wide, huge rear mech, dinner plate sized sprocket nonsense, you could just use 2 chainrings.

Still, then they wouldn't have any "new" products for excitable fanboys and girls to shoot their load over; and bikeradar, pinkbike et al wouldn't be able to call us luddites for not getting on board yet.

Still, then they wouldn’t have any “new” products for excitable fanboys and girls to shoot their load over; and bikeradar, pinkbike et al wouldn’t be able to call us luddites for not getting on board yet.

Look, you just have to accept the fact that setting up a front mech is beyond many folks capabilities. And then there are those for whom the ability to co-coordinate two thumbs seems to have been genetically un-programmed.

The STW front mech appreciation society returns

I love a front mech almost as much as I love Compo, Cleggy and Foggy 🙂

The STW front mech appreciation society returns

I was about to mention chain retention, better designed frames, no chain suck, and better dropper lever placement as reasons why the front mech is dead and something from the 90's.

But that says it better.

I use the full range of a 10-51 too with a 36t chainring. Had 11-42 before that. Wasn't enough. This is for a hardtail that gets used for commuting as well (50:50 on/off road), a mix of everything, like MTBs used to get used for. Yes, i tried a gravel bike, awful things.

That big jump into the 52t is annoying, just like it was with XT 46t cassettes. I have Eagle and do use the 50t but also don't need it. Last drivetrain I got was the 10-45t Shimano because the gear steps are even, close together and 45t is plenty low enough for me.

Guess I can see the benefit of running a bigger chainring to get a higher top gear but my bikes are mostly full suspension. Bigger chainrings reduce the anti squat so make pedalling spongier.

Instead of something more useful like "here's what we've done to make this stronger, lighter, longer lasting or shift smoother/under load" it's just another Sram marketing gimmick.

I’ve been on SRAM Eagle for years, and I now have SLX 12spd on my Hardtail. I must say that Shimano have put a lot more thought into their gear ratios rather than just the spinal tap approach. The lowest 3 gears, the 51-45-39 are all closer spaced than on the SRAM, the ones you use for climbing. Then there’s a larger % wise gap from the 39 to the 33, but this is less of an issue, as it’s the gear you’re likely to go to once you’ve crested the climb (and on SRAM, I’m often double shifting at this point anyway), and from there on down both cassettes are similar.

Interesting. I've just spent an unreasonable amount of time comparing 12 speed cassette ratios (just the numbers; different/larger gaps might result in a more suited cassette for different types of riding/preferences):

1st gear on the new 10-52 is 4% slower than on the 11-50, and top gear is 10% faster. A larger 1-2 step leaves 2nd gear unchanged, and so are 3/4/5. Despite the slightly larger 11-12 step at the other end, the steps between 5 and 11 are now longer than before.

As has been said, the lower gears are closer together on the Shimano 10-51. This does result in larger steps further up the range.

Maybe they should spend a tooths worth of effort on thier production engineering.

Though not officially endorsed it seems the normal Eagle mech will indeed work with the new 52t "fine".

Not as slick as the new mech apparently which makes sense. If the rest of the cassette is the same as the 10-50 then the only difference will be that the change to 52 and back won't be as good.... I could live with that. It's not like im constantly in and out of the 50...

Oh, the new mech has a shorter cage and actually sits a bit higher up then the old mech when in the 50t.👍

When is the new Eagle due to hit the shops guys? I think initially I'd just get the cassette and keep the rest standard Eagle.

The front mech is a relic and deserves no place on a modern MTB.

Ho ho!

I'm still sticking to 2x; it means I can ride to my ride, ride my ride and ride home again.

And I know this may limit me when its time for a new bike.

For now though Shimano stuff simply outlasts everything else I've tried on the market and a 38 22 (my modification from the standard 38 24, cos it gets me up steeper hills) and a really common 11x36 on the back lets me ride to the Lakes or Cannock or even Morzine, have a laugh with my pals and go for a beer..... thats what its all about I think?

My 1x allows me to do exactly the same. In lockdown I’ve ridden both my fs and ht bikes to Ashton Court and Leigh Woods in Bristol (8 miles each way to get there / worked out as as 42km ride overall last time), and on rides out towards Bath joining up bits of singletrack.

One is 11 speed 10-42 with a 30t chainring and the other is 10-42 11 speed with a 32t chainring.

I’m considering going 12 speed just because I fancy a bigger bail out gear for the end of big day rides (like Brechfa forest black / red loop), but I don’t desperately need it.

Was thinking 10-50 Sram gx when it was down to £260 ish for the groupset vs XT 12 speed (but that was more expensive plus I’d need a new freehub £75 extra). But new Sram GX 10-52 is out with nice Carbon cranks so I’m waiting to see what sort of price that gets sold at once it’s on sale.

I’m considering going 12 speed just because I fancy a bigger bail out gear for the end of big day rides (like Brechfa forest black / red loop), but I don’t desperately need it.

Have a look at the Sunrace 10-46t cassette.

It fits an XD driver and works well with Shimano 11sp GS mechs.

All the front mech love club - that's cool, we get it, nobody is forcing this on you. Shimano still do 2x and 3x.
But please stop banging that 'you're too shit to set up a front mech' drum.
The main issue with front mech for me is the lack of NW ring viability. I've lost count of the number of times I used to throw a chain, or get chainsuck due to not having a spotless drivetrain, and since going 1x 4 years ago I've had a single chain drop. One. Because the ring was worn.

So just please stop that boring old trope, it's really dull. Horses/courses.

I’ve lost count of the number of times I used to throw a chain, or get chainsuck due to not having a spotless drivetrain, and since going 1x 4 years ago I’ve had a single chain drop.

Hmmm, well in the 3 1/2 years I ran XTR 2x11 on my Tallboy, I don't remember ever having chainsuck, or throwing chains - it just didn't happen. In fact, the only transmission problem I ever remember having was late last year at Hamsterley, when the transmission was pretty worn out, when the chain went...well, I don't really know how to describe it, but it took a fair old amount of time to untangle it all!

(now happily running XT 1x12, incidentally, so no axe to grind here about 1x setups 🙂 )

Have a look at the Sunrace 10-46t cassette.

It fits an XD driver and works well with Shimano 11sp GS mechs.

Yes but that’s less shiny

please stop banging that ‘you’re too shit to set up a front mech’ drum.

Please don't make me go through the forum linking to all the posts where folk admit either (a) they can't set up a front mech or (b) struggle coordinating two shifters. No one has time for that shit.

I can setup a front mech, I just don’t want one on my mountain bike. On stuff like Bike Park Wales even with relatively new chainrings / cassette / chain / mechs I’d still lose the chain at the most annoying times.

Also coordinating mechs is a thing - when you’re riding off-road technical stuff it’s far easier to just have one lever to go up and down. The road bike is different as I’ve got time to think about that more - but I’ve still gone di2 there and it’s much nicer than a mechanical front mech.

Additionally, a 1x style dropper lever is much nicer than the push button type and the front shifter would be in the way for that.

There is definitely a place for front mechs still. Just not on my bikes.

I think it's great to be able to have the choice, that way everyone gets what they want.

520% is not enough range for me, I'd want an 11-64 to give me equivalent range (581%) to my current setup of an 11-32 cassette and 22-32-44 chainset. I regularly use the bottom gear winching my way up into the local hills and spin out the top gear on the way back down.

520% is not enough range for me, I’d want an 11-64 to give me equivalent range (581%) to my current setup of an 11-32 cassette and 22-32-44 chainset. I regularly use the bottom gear winching my way up into the local hills and spin out the top gear on the way back down.

Sounds like you have some exceedingly steep / long hills to go up that are very smooth on the way down. I rarely spin my road bike out on completely flat tarmac that has a 50t chainring and 11t highest cog on the cassette. And if I spin it out I’m going seriously fast.

Poopscoop
Subscriber

There is definitely a place for front mechs still. Just not on my bikes.

Oh, absolutely. I think it became pretty obvious early that 3x wasn't the right choice for the default on most bikes any more, except for cargo and touring and the like. But there's still a good argument for 2x, both it and 1x bring something to the table.

All mine are 1x and it works best for me but 2x was decent too, especially with a clutch.

(I was a pretty early adopter of 2x and I remember all the same arguments that you now hear about 1x being trotted out... and yes some of them I know and some of them are now riding on 2x and saying the exact same things about 1x as they did about 2. But equally, I was pretty early on 1x too and some of the most enthusiastic adopters of that, are back on 2x.)

Some of the minor changes are welcome, but it’s interesting that we’ve essentially reached a hiatus with ever increasing range… Which is solving a problem that doesn’t really exist.

I think Box were on onto something with the wide range, fewer gears approach. It’s interesting that Shimano have gone that way with their M4100 and M5100 Deore.

The thing it find most is that I don’t really need the 10/11/13 gears. Basically hardly ever used, which is probably an argument for running a 30t chainring and 11 to 45…

I think the consumer might head back towards a more rhythm step model. That being said, less durable, designed obsolescence components are where the profit is at.

When is the new Eagle due to hit the shops guys? I think initially I’d just get the cassette and keep the rest standard Eagle.

Looks like it will hit the UK shops in Mid july. I could sell you a cassette now but it would be expensive, but I would chuck in the rest of a bike for the price 🙂

@benpinnick I’ve already had an Aeris and now an Aether from you so surely you could throw me in a new gx groupset on the cheap 😝🤷‍♂️

Not a SRAM user so happy to let them play the oneupmanship game, I don't need to buy it.

I think Box were on onto something with the wide range, fewer gears approach. It’s interesting that Shimano have gone that way with their M4100 and M5100 Deore.

I've noticed this with switching between two of my bikes during lockdown. the hardtail has 11-42T Deore 10 speed where the full sus has 11-42 XT 11 speed, both with 32 T chainrings and 650B wheels. While the top and bottom gears are the same I've noticed I ride differently due to the differences up and down the block in the middle. Takes a few minutes to mentally adjust when switching between the two but I am finding myself preferring the gaps on the Deore cassette for some reason! Normally I'm all about even gaps across the block and prefer Shimano's thinking on it to SRAM's but I'll wait until I've done a few bog mountain rides once lockdown is over before making a final decision. The tester will be when I get the Rocket back out as it's got XT 11 speed but with a SunRace 11-46 cassette as I didn't like the big jump on the Shimano one. The SunRace has a weird jump 2/3rds the way down the block, see if I notice it after riding the Deore one so much.

That 10t jump is a monster, but it might suit some people. I'd see it more like having an 10-42t 11 speed, with a 52t bailout sprocket stuck on, that doesn't actually see too much use. However If you frequently climb by progressing through the bottom 3 or 4 gears in sequence, and thus want more consistent steps then shimano might be a better option, 1 tooth difference for the overall range isn't actually that much of a difference (IMO).

for me i wonder why they eeked out that high gear side to 9t or 10t when it’s barely used by most.

This was my thought too, I think what will probably happen, because SRAM are clearly into spinal tap marketing, is that the 9t will be stuck on the opposite end to a 52t sprocket eventually so they can claim the biggest overall range, once more when they need a new marketing tool.

I do hope shimano don't engage with SRAM and just play the "moar teeth/ratios is betterer" game, and instead carry on producing cassettes with useful ratios and sensible steps, even if for no other Reason than making sure there's some diversity of choice between the two brands...

I do hope shimano don’t engage with SRAM and just play the “moar teeth/ratios is betterer” game, and instead carry on producing cassettes with useful ratios and sensible steps,

You mean like their 11-46 11 speed cassette with a big jump - and noting it was Shimano that made a cassette 1 tooth bigger than Eagle to start with?

You mean like their 11-46 11 speed cassette with a big jump – and noting it was Shimano that made a cassette 1 tooth bigger than Eagle to start with?

Nevermind that they're doing an 11-46 10 speed obviously with even bigger steps (which I'm tempted by personally) as part of the Deore group, very obviously pitched to compete with SX/NX on value for money price points builds for OEMs (and maybe the likes of sunrace now?) But then beggars can't be choosers and all that, as pointed out there are a few people still looking to stretch the range of 8/9/10 speed these days...

I'm not saying shimano are above the big cassette marketing BS but both companies are offering very slightly different flagship products.
Again in the middle ground shimano are now offering viable 10 and 11 speed wide range 1x options, while SRAM seem to want everyone to opt into 12 speed across their MTB groups from SX up, probably so they don't "back slide" towards fewer cogs, even though at cheaper price points there seem to be reliability issues (anecdotally)...

Both companies have subtly different 1x offerings now, you choose whatever suits your riding/maintainence habits/budget. That's actually a good thing IMO.

Come to the Pennines, there are some climbs/times that you’d probably be able to usefully use a 52t cassette.

... and or some descents you could use the 10T/36 ... for about 10 secs.
The thing is do you really want to spend the extra £ or carry the extra weight for a few minutes out of a 4 hour ride? (or in reality the extra drag from the tyre that still grips)

I sometimes have a bit of fun with Jnr playing "how far up can you get" and its a giggle for a while but really not worth buying a new hub, cassette and sticking a tyre on just to win.

Looking forward to 2 x 7 with short mechs that don't get smashed off rocks.

Tomorrow I shall mainly be riding 3x10 on 26s.

I may upgrade sometime but I like the 42x11 gear.

13thfloormonk
I had to check it wasn’t April Fools, is this REALLY better than just running a front mech?

No.

Are SRAM and Shimano still making cassettes with <50 teeth? If so I don’t see what the fuss is. If you don’t want a big ol’ cassette on your bike then use a smaller one.

Yeah, I really don’t get why some folk seem to take it really personally if some random guy off the Internet chooses not to use the same gear setup as them.
It’s horses for courses.
My rigid mtb/bikepacking/touring bike uses 2x10, 32t ring, on a 11-42 cassette.
Works flawlessly, shifts silently etc, but gives me a top speed of around 20mph.
(Plenty on that bike)
My ebike uses the same cassette, pulled by (the equivalent to) a 37.5t* ring, gives me a top speed close to 30mph, works flawlessly, yada yada yada.
My cx bike useS 2x10, 34/50 up front, 11-32 cassette, that can be spun to C35mph, works flawl . . . You get the idea.
The crucial point, is using gears that are appropriate for the intended usage.
1x does work for most people, just not everyone.
The 2x systems i use on some of my bikes work for my needs, but will be sub optimal for other users.

*it’s a 15T, but gets turned at 2.5 times the crank speed, so equivalent to 37.5T

This came out to retail pretty quick from the initial announcement. Mantel had stock over the weekend of GX and X01 so I ordered a combination of both. Epicly fast delivery as usual.

In hand, the new lunar grey colouring is quite a step up in styling.

It has antagonised my riding buddies profusely tonight because it's a) new, b) not out in the UK and c) out ranges their recently upgraded XTR groups. I have now accended to the Ibex status of climbing impossible gradients.

The new b screw adjuster tool is definitely better than the previous itteration.

It rides and shifts as well as the last gen 500% range XX1/X01.

Must resist!

Not ordered yet but will have a browse and prob do so over the weekend.

Torn with this -
I’ve had Sram drivetrains for ages on my mtb’s and they just work well with minimal maintenance. I also like the thumb shifter levers.

Every shimano lever I have used has a weird thumb shift position for shifting to higher gears.

I had a look at mantel and the gx group would work out slightly cheaper for me than the XT one I’ve been looking at as I don’t need a new freehub and I could keep my current crank / chainring. But the XT cassette has a better last jump to the biggest 51t cog. Hmmmmn. Wish shimano had adopted the Xd driver in this case.

The only thing Mantel don’t seem to have is the new carbon GX crank - I’m curious to see how much that is going to cost as I fancy one of those.

You can order the Truvativ Descendant carbon dub crank for c£210 shipped from R2-Bike. They weigh 550g and look like the new GX Carbon Crank (same company anyway). Their Sam Hill version weighs the same as X01.

There are boost and non boost variants. I ordered a boost one out of curiosity at the weekend and it arrived today. Bang on weight and the profile of the arms looks like the new GX Carbon from the pics.

https://r2-bike.com/TRUVATIV-Crank-Descendant-Carbon-Eagle-DUB-black-1x12-X-SYNC-2-Direct-Mount-chainring-32-teeth-BOOST-170-mm