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Well, help me help my daughter really!
I was just out with the kids for a little bike ride and my 7 yo had a problem with her Early Rider Belter, was fine in 1st and second but put it in 3rd gear and it made a horrible clunk clunk and the rear wheel seized. Oh I thought, I don't know diddly about hub gears. It is fitted with a SRAM i-motion 3 speed hub. Home again and wheel out, and I've got the wheel and hub outer off the axle and internal gear. I've found 1 broken part so far, a fine wire circlip that held the 2 non drive side pawls in place was broken into 3 pieces....maybe its a simple as that, dunno. I've stopped spannering for now to work out what to do. The sram youtube I found to learn how to get the hub apart said they don't provide spares/repair by replacement of the entire internals
(note my daughter's is not the coaster brake version)
that's american though so maybe different in the UK? Is it now:
1. find somewhere to get the fine wire circlip and continue to repair (not sure if anything else is broken or not yet)
2. Take to an LBS for them to get the spares and service the hub
3. suck it up and get the whole internals from somewhere? (most costly no doubt but probably easy to fix at least!) If so, are these obtainable or does it need th LBS to order this too?
Any help and advice greatly appreciated! Ta
Ah... The glorious i3. What a heap of sh 1 t.
First thing to note is that there will be a very very small number of parts available for the hub, and probably not what you need. Before you think about taking it to the Lbs.
What I think you will find the issue, is that a little deeper in the hub, there will be a circlip, that has to be the worst design feature I have seen on a bike component. The circlip is too short so chances are the pin that holds in one of the pawls has got out, and gone walkies into the gearing. Best case it just needs fishing out. Worst case it's mashed up another set of pawls deeper in the hub. You will be able to gauge if this is the problem, as the 2 exposed pawls you will see when first dismantling the hub, One will be able to move the way the other won't.
I was lucky to find a good second hand i3 hub to steal some parts from and I made sure I epoxyed the circlip in place to avoid it happening again.
Good luck.
If your daughter rides the bike a lot and you are the original owner I would call early rider to see if they can give you a discount on a strummy wheel. They should know how bad that hub was.
Hope this helps.
oooo, a man that knows the hub! Excellent and many thanks! i think the 2 pawls at the drive side seemed to waggle about okay but sounds like your saying its hard to get the parts and to think about swapping it out foor something different. ooooh.
I'm not the first owner, I bought it from another forumite a year ago iirc. daughter isn't a heavy or hard user and will be on to a bigger bike in another year, however there's daughter #2 and then son#1 too who will use the bike. Bleurgh, clearly not going to be cheap to replace with something better but a repair may not be easy to get parts for or last all that well either. poo.
I wonder what my options are for something different? Maybe just ditch the gears and go single speed.... which gear on the sram hub was 1:1? if that was gear 2 then maybe I might just do that. Hmm...I'll see if early rider support are any help.
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=96618
Here is a description of what the general issue I tried to explain above.
Have a look inside the hub. It's not complicated to take apart. The part might be available. Some outfit in Holland has a few of the parts. If you can get them to ship.
Best option I would say is to speak to early rider and get a strummy hub on one of the wheels. Which is what they currently sell. Certainly what I will be doing next. Otherwise you will need a wheel with freehub, mech, Shifter, cassette, chainring, chain and the hangers. Which is a huge whack of cash.
The frames are a 135 rear hub size so depends how competent you are at building wheels.
As I said take it apart see what the issue is. But certainly glue in the circlip on rebuild.
cheers @rudiboy yes I'll try and speak to early rider, as you say they now have a 4 speed sturmey archer hub. So I'd need a wheel (or huband build the wheel) and the 4 speed shifter, possibly some other bits. this is probably the straightforward way to get the bike running again, although costly. Although it does at least update update the bike to the current standard.
I think the sram shifter might actually work with a 3 speed SA, so maybe a brompton wheel with 3 speed SA could work but there will still be other parts needed as the SA shifter cable comes out the end of the axle which is different to the sram shifter cable....and I need to swap belt for chain or find a belt drive sprocket to fit. A brompton wheel is £194 so this isn't really a cheap option anyway.
I could single speed it possibly. A single speed 20" wheel seems to be cheap, £25 upwards, but I then need a beltdrive sprocket to fit a screw on thread for a freewheel, or again I change to a chain and change the crank as well. eek. So even the cheap hack solution doesn't work out that cheap if I can't find a belt drive sprokect to fit...which I can imagine will be tricky
poo.
Belt drive sprockets do exist! Not found any choices and if 30T isn't the right number then still stuffed.
I'd definitely talk to Early Rider. Anything else is a minefield:
Most SA hubs won't be 135mm or 28 hole (is a Brompton 135mm?).
Older Sachs Torpedo 3 speed shifters (which is what i-motion sort of derived from) didn't work with SA. However I guess with 3 speed it doesn't need to be too precise - gear 3 is slack cable, gear 1 is fully tight cable and 2 is somewhere in the middle....
Belt drive "chainline" needs to be spot on so random old SA hubs might not work.
Agreed, any frig would be a pita to get to work. I'll call tomorrow and see how helpful they are. A replacement Belter 20 is £549, so shall we take bets on how much a new wheel and shifter etc comes to? I can see it hurting.
Hello! I think that's the right internals but not sure. If it is I might by a couple!
That link looks close but I don't think its a match to what is needed.
This is a better fit I think if you can persuade them to ship to the UK.
Thanks. Sounds like you know this very well, same bike rudiboy?
I've phoned early rider, and I'm waiting for Jake the tech support guy to call back.
Oh dear. They can't offer a swap to the SA equipped wheel. They do have a solution for the disc brake equipped version involving a swap to the chain used on seeker bikes, but for the v-brake version they don't have a solution themselves. He is sending details of a contract in the States that has been very helpful. Eek. This is a right pita. The problem is SRAMs making, although I'd have hoped early rider could help with getting the SA parts at least, unfortunately not.
shame about the SA not being a solution.
Yep same bike. I expect I will go cassette and mech for jr.no2, as long as this fix works ok for a year or 2. With the circlip in place, I hope the rest will be ok.
Did you Strip the hub further to see what the issue was?
keep me posted on any updates from early rider. Especially if they can get new pawls from the US
No I've not had a chance to strip the hub further, and not overly inclined unless I get a positive response to getting spares.... Although not keen to chase a fix on a bad product as I'm after a fox that I can rely on for the eldest for maybe as year, then her younger sister for 2, then their brother for 2. The thought of keeping this SRAM hub alive is not appealing! I will see Mr US can do but I'm looking at a new bike tbh. Frog 20" is £384 currently. I'm thinking that is the easiest and safest solution, albeit a more costly one and feels wasteful. Such a shame, I'd been super impressed by the belter 16" we have and the 20" which we've had a year now, but when the bikes cost as much as they do and early rider event help with a fix I'm left thinking they aren't quite so good. I know sram created the problem, but it's frustrating ER can't help with a swap to the SA solution at least. Although I suspect that would be half the cost of a new bike anyway.
Oh well. At least it seems the frog has decent deals on it currently! And I had been looking at 24" bikes for the next one anyway and pleased to see that at that size there is more choice for a good bike and they seem cheaper! Using less kids specific parts I guess. I'd be tempted to try the eldest on a Vitus 24+,. But since the younger two will need a20" bike there's not much point. Oh well.
Ok, the sturmey x-rf4 hub is available on eBay for £115 including fitting kit and shifter. The bike shop selling them builds wheels so I've messaged for a price. I've also contacted early rider again by email to ask:
1. Do they use a standard sturmey without changing the ratios?
2. Can the belt drive sprocket be swapped from the broken SRAM to the sturmey?
3. What's the chain line/what spacers am I likely to need?
I'll update.... Fingers crossed...
It's not going to be less than £200 though I'm sure, even if it is a simple solution!
At least Early rider offered to help you and find a contact. I got a less of a positive response.
I think the hubs are ok. Once the circlip issue is resolved. I mean it wont be bomb proof but should be ok for a while longer.
The issue I had was that the pawls, right next to the freehub were mashed. So I couldn't get an accurate size from them. I was then not able to shop around for the correct size pawls. I expect them to be fairly generic.
I think the bike is worth rescuing, and maybe even the hub. As I said the circlip is the main issue and an easy fix with some epoxy, to stop it turning to the point where one of the pins drop. Your issue might also be an easy fix.
If you need any help, I'm happy to dismantle it and have a look to see whats gone on.
I've got a SRAM i3 taking up space in my garage. It was working fine when it was last used, but was a bit noisy - although that might be normal. Let me know if you're interested. It's currently built into a 20" wheel - came on 2nd hand Islabike that the previous owner had swapped to hub gears, but got swapped out again to stop a sibling argument abount number of gears.
I change to a chain and change the crank as well.
FWIW, the ER cranks can be fitted with a chainring. My son had a 20HT (chain) and it uses the same cranks. In fact, my spares bin contains a brand new "beltring" that came off the replacement crankset that I had to buy after the original came loose and destroyed the splines.
I'll try and make the time to get the hub apart fully and see what damage is done. I rarely have the time to do anything these days though, and that's frustrating. B I'm not normally one to just shrug and buy a whole new wheel or bike, but recognise the current limitations on time!
This is the email I got from early rider
Just letting you know what the SRAM i3 needs. The pawl retainer spring is usually the culprit. This then lets the pawls move oout of their housings and they get jammed or broken.
I can't say for sure, as i've never performed a repair, but I beleive the pawl size is the same as another manufacturer. If you can find a shop willing to open the hub and investigate, sometimes it can be as simpe as the retainer spring.
I have attached the link to our friend in America who has kits to fix these hubs;
http://www.rideyourbike.com/sramIGH.shtml
I hope this helps.
Jake
Early Rider Technical Support Team
Having a quick look at the link, they have replacement 1 use nuts at $30, and a kit which looks to be new pawls (sturmey archer pawls that fit) plus a retaining spring for $32.... Kit doesn't look too include the one use nut I think so although you may be able to follow their guidance and get the pawls cheaper local, and make a spring as they show, you still need a nut don't you? Jeez SRAM, a bespoke thread on a simple nut, takes the p155. Unless rudiboy, have you a solution for the single use nut?
The I motion 3 doesn't have a single use nut. So that should solve it. 🙂
Good to know that the springs are just fork spring clips.a quick call to tf or j tech for those should be easy
Then the strummy pawls https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/sturmey-archer-actuator-pawl-hsh482/
That's the key to getting yours fixed I expect.
Hell, I might even try to get my goosed one fixed, if that info is correct. Not bad for a 5er..
Oh yes, that's the 9 that has the nut, my mistake. Ok, I need to take the thing apart properly then and see what the damage is, and as you say, it may actually be a cheap fix. Blimey.
Wiper seal spring of correct winding diameter. You'll need two to splice together as they are too short
I'm just servicing a pair of rockshox fork, and fitting new dust seals, So will see what they look like and if I can use them.
Let me know what you find inside the hub.
@RudiBoy how did you get on?
I finally got round to having a go at taking the thing apart (although its resulted in being shouted at because I'm not looking after the kids ) having stripped it the ONLY broken or misplaced part was indeed the tiny wire ring holding the first set of pawls, the usual suspect spring and pawls were fine. my broken part is, if you go to the link and look at the photo of the stripped hub, top row of parts in the middle is a fine wire circle with 2 pawls inside it, that fine wire. it holds to 2 pawls on the oustide of he planetary gear carrier. the pawls were still in place and tbh I would try it without the wire BUT in my strip I've either damaged, or found damage in the shifter wire. its kinked and frayed and the hub doesn't seem to shift / the wire doesn't want to pull out to make it shift. I've had that part of the hub apart completely, the only damage seems to be minor fraying and a bit of a kink in the shifter wire but yet, even with the hub off, the wire doesn't pull easily and part number 12 doesn't want to slide easily. can't see any damage to it...had it off, cleaned, regreased, reassembled, no luck. So can i get hold of a new shift wire? no idea. am I well and truly fed up with this hub? yes. I'm seriously considering replacing the bike, which is a shame but I've had no luck finding a bike shop that will take a look at the thing and its just not working for me.
Aaaaarggghhhh!
Sorry to hear that it hasn't worked. Sounds like you have gone further with the strip than I have.
They really are crap.
I have a possible solution. Depends how much you want to spend though.
I've solved it!
I ordered a vitus 20 from chain reaction! Last years model, £50 off and with topcashback it comes to £250. 8.5kg is still pretty light although 500g heavier than the early rider.
If you want a spare belter 20, fine if you've the time and patience and skill to sort ahub (otherwise written off for a tiny broken wire!) I can do you a deal.
🙂
that is one way to solve it...
sucks that it got to that though.
Yes. Sram and make some rubbish, and it's crap but when they ditched the hub and won't support it I'm not surprised. I am much more peeved with early rider that they wouldn't support a customer. A Sturmer hubbed wheel at cost...but they couldn't. I can move on as I got the bike pre owned from another stwer but had I paid over £500 for it new and not had any support I'd be annoyed!
I'm also peeved to give in, it's not me, I fix things. However I'm also pleased I've accepted my current limits and not wasted time I don't have. £250 on a replacement hurts, but far less than months without biking for the kids and the stress I'd cause myself searching out a fix!
Meant to say, I think I'll bin the ER rather than let it sit in the garage while I pretend I'll fix it some time. So let me know if you want parts. Pawls and springs are very simple to pop in an envelope.
Please don't bin the ER, I'll take it off your hands!
I have a spare ER hub and belt drive in my garage from one of my son's bikes a couple of years ago (changed it to a cassette and derailleur) - I could build this into something for my niece
I have the same problem. How hard to strip?
I think might be joining the failed hub club. Been having to do lots of adjustments recently and it's making funny noises. I'll be swapping to chain and gears if it fails (rebuild rim onto a different hub).
So I had the idea to start stripping it down last night and actually went pretty well and no obvious issues, took everything completely apart and all pawls and springs and gears seem to be working perfectly.
Got it all back together fine and refitted to bike. The same problem in gear 3 where with my large load it will eventually slip. I am just wondering if it is just a poor design and will slip?
I noticed that gear 3 is the one with the toothed wheels, perhaps they are just not able to engage enough under the load onto the next small centre pinion?
Be good to know if others have the same in gear 3 on what otherwise looks to be a good condition hub?
.