[Closed] Sonder Camino Al - thoughts, feelings, emotions? Pictures?

I [i]really[/i] like mine. I bought it as a full bike: Mk1, cable disks and SRAM 1x11. All day comfortable, although I am not getting on too well with the bars that it came with.

There's two forks (or at least there was) the full carbon doesn't have bosses. I can't see from a quick look what the differences between MK1 and Mk2 are apart from colour, but found the company very helpful, so am sure you'd be able to get that from them easily enough.

Will rummage for pics, although I think I posted on here about it.

Edit: Google better than 'search' [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sonder-camino-al-experiences ]thread here[/url]

Can't quite tell, but assuming no cable stops to allow running a front mech?

Wife & I love ours, Mk1 bought as frame only last year. (We pre ordered before first batch landed).
Hers has 700c wheels & mine has 650b.
Both run 2x drive trains, full cable routing for front mech inc cable stop (down pull).
Our forks are carbon with alu steerer. They do have mounts mid leg which I’ve used to fit full mudguards.
Used for multi day touring with pannier rack & frame luggage, bivvy trips, mixed surface rides on South Downs, New Forest & Dorset as well as around the green ways in Brittany.
I use mine on the road a lot too as my road bike doesn’t fit proper mudguards.
Pics of ours in that thread linked above too.
[img] ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=face993bc0cf9351df621dcc21228667&oe=5AAF1E3F[/img]

Oh that's a good shout Jim. Mine has a cable stop between the chainstay bridge and bottom bracket that isn't visible in the pics on the site. I see they are just selling 1x builds now.

Also, I realise belatedly that the full carbon fork goes with the Camino Ti.

That's great, thanks all. Probably should have done a search prior to posting!

I think I might wait for the V2 frame as I prefer the colours.

Does anyone run a front rack?

Whats the weight of Camino al? Thinking of getting a gravel bike but a one-in one-out rule enforcement means I'd have to replace my road bike, I'd look to get 2 sets of wheels for it I think.

THanks Mattbee - what 2x chainsets are you running, MTB or Road.
Ideally i'd (initially anyway) want to build up with a shimano 105 compact crankset, but depends on chainstay clearance.
cheers

@flange - I bought a standard spec SRAM Apex1 hydro version in August. I love it. Done about 450km on it so far in very mixed terrain. (I struggle to post images nowadays, my email is in my profile so ping me and I can send you some photos). The flared drops are a revelation and Apex1 system very easy to get used to

@disco-stu - I don't know the weight but my size XL is definitely not light but it is robust. I went down some dodgy rock and root strewn tracks on it at speed and survived.

the new colours are a lot nicer then the v1 colours. I have the green/grey one and it look sfine apart from the blue flashes. I think I'll get some 3M black reflective tape to cover them up.

Camino Ti here. Bought to replace my Kinesis Tripster. Really,really like it. A bit more sturdy/heavy than the Tripster. AFAIK the Alu is identical. Running 2 x 10 on mine with a 105 50/34 chainset, 105 front mech (down pull, cable stop on BB), XT 11-36 cassette and XTR 9 speed rear mech.

Worth emailing Neil at Alpkit if any questions as he is super helpful (PM me for his email if needs).

As far as I know the V2 is the same as V1 but with the new colour.

Great - thanks for that info Andy.

mattbee - what mudguards are you (or I guess really Mrsbee) using?

mines 1x: 40t on the front, and lots of clearance.

I use a harness rather than front rack (Alpkit Joey) but would like to know about rack users too please.

are they pressfit or threaded bb?

threaded 8)

Mine has a SRAM Force & Mrs has 105.
She’s running some cheap Halfords branded guards, I now have FWE (Evans own brand) guards designed for 26” wheels that work well with the 650b tyres.
Threaded B.B.
Built weight of mine with Force/Apex 10 sod double, TRP Spyre brakes Superstar/Pacenti TL28 wheels & Deda cheapish finishing kit is circa 11kg. It’s not mega light by any stretch but I think with lighter wheels & components it could be sub 10kg.

I've been looking at these as my current biketowork deal is nearly paid off. I remember something about a fee being added to the price though.
Whats the biggest 700c tyre size you can get in with guards?

mattbee - my current 'light' road bike already weighs over 11kg, so this could even be an improvement on that!

Mrs has Schwalbe G One, they are 40mm and there’s plenty of clearance. Think 42mm would be easy if they weren’t too chunky a tread.

disco_stu - Member
Whats the weight of Camino al......

I was lucky enough to win a frameset at a recent race, sadly it's a medium and swapping wasn't an option, so it's up for sale

Lovely looking frame with carbon forks, well thought out with lots of mounting options

If anyone is interested drop me a message

Looking at this frame with interest.... what hub width does it need out back? 135? Can't find it on site.

135mm rear end.

Here's some photos from our September campervan trip around Europe (mostly avoiding the blummin rain)

Bavarian pub ride
[img] [/img]

Virgental ride, Osttirol, Austria
[img] [/img]

Croatian pre-pub ride
[img] [/img]

on the Kaiserstuhlweg, Germany. 65 flat kms of cafes and pubs 8)
[img] [/img]

Lac de Gerardmer, France (pre-pub but post ice-cream)
[img] [/img]

I [b]really[/b] like mine. It's ideal for mixed terrain especially the tracks you find in the mountainous areas of Europe.

The Restrap frame bag is a revelation. I usually take a bumbag for pump, tube, multitool and bits and pieces, it's s nice to not have anything on your back but have enough "stuff" to get you home. Size L fits really well inside the XL frame

Tempted by one of these, however I've read Alpkit take a £150 admin fee for cycle to work buyers? Can't see it on their website but read comments on here. Can anyone confirm or deny?

BoardinBob - Member
Tempted by one of these, however I've read Alpkit take a £150 admin fee for cycle to work buyers? Can't see it on their website but read comments on here. Can anyone confirm or deny?

- just phone AlpKit or visit a shop, they're very friendly and won't bite (maybe)

[URL] https://www.alpkit.com/support/stickies/cycle-to-work-schemes [/URL]

They incur additional admin costs for purchases through some cycle to work schemes, and pass these costs on.

I expect the exact cost depends on the scheme and the value of the bike.

Anyone with one of these as well/instead of regular road bike - just wondering how they compare.
I know it's slacker, more upright etc, but the geo isn't that far from something like a Giant Defy.
With the right tyres/bars would you say this is still sporty enough for a fast road ride (or 'club ride'...whatever they are :wink:)

Just been out on my first ride setting up my V2 rival with 650b WTB 47c Byways set up tubeless.

15 mile loop from house taking in road, fireroad and single track.

First impressions are really good, rolls nicely on these tyres (never checked pressures it came with apart from the thumb test) for me at 85kg, exceedingly comfortable ride on the road compared to my Planet X pro carbon running 25c at 85psi but going to start dropping pressures until find a good compromise as a bit harsh off road.Grip is to be expected offroad with these tyres ie OK as long as you don't expect miracles in mud.

Riding position actually feels almost the same as my pro carbon surprisingly and this is borne out when looking at them side by side but I do have maximum stem spacers on the pro carbon.

I reckon you could use it as a road bike no bother with 700c wheels and suitable tyres.

1x gearing is fine, never felt that I needed any more, and work as they should.

Not convinced by the flared bars it has come with,not so bad once I swung the hoods outwards to a more conventional 'road' position but would like to be able to position them closer to the flat section of the bar like on conventional road drops as I feel my hands are down in front of the bars when riding on the hoods and the bars are putting pressure on the back of my wrists. This is just personal preference, other people may not have a problem.

Came fitted with a negative rise stem which I am going to flip to try to get a slightly higher bar position.

Climbs very well for what I suspect is probably an 11kg bike (large with pedals).

Goes downhill good and handles rooty single track surprisingly well (the flared drops do help with this).

Build quality is good, some nice tube hydroforming? going on that you don't see in pictures.

Finishing kit is fine for the price point and looks like will last well.

All in happy with the bike, just a few personal tweaks to be made.

Pictures below before and after, looks a lot pinker in pictures than in the flesh, much deeper red/maroon than that.

[img] https://flic.kr/p/CYQuwX ][img] https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4644/24272028787_18fe4dca9b_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://flic.kr/p/CYQuwX ][img] https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4644/24272028787_18fe4dca9b_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/CYQuwX ]IMG_0137[1][/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/157340828@N06/ ]Paul Nicholls[/url], on Flickr[/img]

[img] https://flic.kr/p/22zcDtC ][img] https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4645/39100765982_4fe0b94eb4_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://flic.kr/p/22zcDtC ][img] https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4645/39100765982_4fe0b94eb4_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/22zcDtC ]IMG_0135[1][/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/157340828@N06/ ]Paul Nicholls[/url], on Flickr[/img]

So does any one know the difference between V1 and V2 frames? Is it really just the colour?!? 🙂

@mattbee I'm on the brink of buying the V2 apex Hydraulic version as theres really nothing else available for the same money spec wise.

I'm confused about wheel choice though. I'm tempted by the 650b wheels but worried about the possibility of peddle strike when off road. I know that 650b with big tyres is roughly the same as 700c with skinny road tyres but I think there is around 1" diameter difference with 650b 37c tyre compared to the 700c 37c option on this bike.

Could you give your thoughts on the potential for pedal strike from the lower BB. Mybe I'm overthinking this but I did read a magazine review where the rider had experienced pedal strike when off roud on a camino even with the 700c option.

http://off.road.cc/content/review/bikes/sonder-camino-al-apex-1-hydraulic-v2-gravel-adventure-bike-1304-review

Andy - I’m a Camino Ti owner and have never experienced pedal strike off road. I run 700x42c. If I had my time again, I’d opt for 650b wheels and some whopping tyres for even more comfort - there is negligible rolling loss with bigger, lower pressure tyres. There’s no point having smaller wheels and using low profile tyres...

"[i]Could you give your thoughts on the potential for pedal strike from the lower BB. Mybe I’m overthinking this but I did read a magazine review where the rider had experienced pedal strike when off roud on a camino even with the 700c option.[/i]"

managed a couple of pedal strikes turning on a heavily cambered and angled cycle path on my Camino Al running 700c on a regular route - used to ride a true cx bike with higher BB (pro6) - no big deal just need to adjust riding style a bit and not be complacent and lazy

Thanks for the help, just what I was looking for 😀

as the next build date for these is the end of July the only question now is should I pre book or wait until August to see if a newer version (2019) is released?

I think there used to be a difference between the fork on the Al and the Ti. im sure the Ti version fork had some more clearance for wider tyres. Im not sure if this is currently the case though.

Why have my photos disappeared from up there ^^^^  ??

Never had any pedal strike issues really. Certainly haven’t noticed a difference in that respect between the 650x47 I run now & the 700x42 I used to use.

Mattbee how do you find those tyres on the tarmac?

If they’re the WTB byways they looked a bit knobbly for my needs. I’m looking for maybe a 38c with a fast centre and grip on the edges. I don’t want to feel like I’m peddling an MTB when on tarmac.

Also Mattbee, what do you like about the 650b over the 700c

finding it difficult to decide. 🤔

Horizon not Byway. Really good on tarmac. I run them tubeless at circa 35-40 psi.

They roll well & are comfortable, fine on corners too. Much more ‘secure’ feeling than the 25mm tyres on my road bike on crappy uk roads. Maybe 1-2mph slower average over 40 miles.

They are pretty good off road too with the exception that they are utterly awful in muddy conditions with no traction or steering to speak of!

Overall the 650b seems to be as quick as the 700c G One were, more comfortable on & off road too.

Just not as good in wet/muddy off road conditions but I’ve got a 29er mtb for that

Oops, my bad. Just checked out the tyres section on the Alpkit site and the byways look perfect. Nice and smooth down the centre and grip on the edge.

I’m just gonna go for it.

Camino Al Apex Hydraulic V2 in Tarmac

650b with tubeless WTB byways

😀

Andygrinding  I guess you want to talk to me because 3 weeks ago I recieved a Camino Al Apex hydralic  tarmac coloured with 650b tyres and tubeless byways.

Verdict it was the right move ok so the BB is low but for green lanes and gravel its not an issue lets be fare its not a MTB.

What would I do differently well I would still get the bike no hesitation but I would not of ordered a set of 700c wheels to go with it because I do not think I will use em.

bottom line tis ace

Thanks Mattbee that’s very helpful as I was also interested in the Whyte Glenco which is 650b with WTB Horizons. Think I have discounted that option because of the brakes and the better value for money with the Sonder.

Aladdoder thanks for the insight. Sounds like your enjoying the bike set up exactly as I’m ordering mine. ( any pictures by the way?). Even more sure now about my choice.

Great forum very helpful. I posted a similar question on the Bikeradar forum and they weren’t very helpful to say the least 😕

i to looked at the whyte but I discounted it for 3 reasons

1 the bang for your buck was not there

2 Alpkit are a brilliant company to deal with

3 my transmitter is so bloody brilliant why go away from sonder

when you get yours the bars are a wtf is that thought, just try em I like them really comfortable the best drops I have ever used.

I have changed a few bits on mine, carbon spacers (because I am a tart) 😉

the standard saddle is not right for me not saying its a piece of shit but a spoon suits me.

I replaced the seat post with a £13 ebay carbon post for a lot more flex to aid comfort.

after this lot all there is left to do is ride it and enjoy I will try to post a picture but tbh I am PC useless

Pictures? .......

[img] [/img]

built up for mixed sealed / gravel road credit card touring 105 STI XT chainset and mechs, bb7's from spares box 32mm swalbe marathon tyres - so not a radical build  but is a very versatile frame

the little guy bit his arm off at the sight of the cgr seat post 🙂

I agree about the standard saddle. It just doesn't suit my delicate posterior and after an hour is so it's unpleasant

I'm swapping it today for a wider Specialized BG one. It might be that I've got a fat arse though.

Got a fat arse too so will probably need to upgrade 😕

Saladdodger, read positive and negative opinions re the flared bars, to be honest they are one of the features that first attracted me to the bike so will see. I’ve read great reviews about the he Sonder MTBs over the years so again that reputation was one of the things that drew me to the Camino and it’s great to get such positive comments from owners.

Really looking forward to getting mine, only problem is the next build date is end of July as waiting for forks aparantly.  That’s why I was wondering about waiting for a revised 2019 model. Called Alpkit/Sonder and they said they are currently looking at a revised frame from a different factory but seems like it’s still in the development stage so probably not till much later this year at the earliest I would think.

Ok, so after waiting 10 weeks from placing my order,  and delay after delay due to first the forks not arriving from the factory and then similar with the frame my Camino V2 finally arrived yesterday 😀

the fork issue meant that i spec’d the raw carbon fork from the Ti version in a bid to get the bike ASAP without waiting for the painted ones it usually comes with. I’m so glad I did as I think it looks ace.

Spec

sonder camino al V2 apex hydraulic

size Large

Tarmac with black carbon fork

650b wheels with tubeless WTB byway tyres

Double wrapped bars

on opening the box all I can say is that it looks great, much better than in the pictures on the Alpkit site that don’t do the bike justice. One slight disappointment though is that my bike has come with the flared ‘bomber’ bars which, after a test ride at Alpkit HQ I decided weren’t for me so I spec’d the less flared ‘spitfire’ bars.  I’ve mailed Alpkit and they  have offered to send out the right bars but a bit of a pain to have to change them myself.

Regardless I fitted the bars and peddles and here is how it looks fresh out of the box

problem posting picture-I’m on it.

Enjoy!!

Shakedown ride out last night, first impressions.

I really like this bike. It's so comfortable. I test rode a 700c Camino at Alpkit HQ and that too was a really nice smooth ride but on the 650b Byways its just even better.

The reach is a little long for me so I'll likely be fitting a shorter stem, but apart from that and handlebars aside it seems perfect. More luck than judgement but even the saddle was the right height for me straight out the box! Talking of the saddle, I actually quite like it. It's got a nice matt rubberised kind of finish which looks well on the bike, Comfort wise it's not bad at all for me and a few more rides out will decide if it's a long term item. The handle bars, as predicted are not quite right for me as they seem to put too much strain on my wrists which were quite sore when I woke up this morning so I'll be swapping those out when Alpkit/Sonder send me the correct ones.

One thing to watch out for if you have feet anything over maybe a size 9 is the tendency for your left heel to catch on the left hand chainstay as it seem to project out more that the right side. I did catch mine initially but slight alteration to foot placement (another bonus of the flat peddles) seemed to sort it.

I soon got to grips with the Sram 1 x 11 gearing and although some have said the feel is 'agricultural' I really like it and think it suits the bike spot on. I was mainly on the flat yesterday so haven;'t had chance to explore the limits of the ratios but I have to say I do like the simplicity of the set up.

Over all I'm really chuffed with the bike and can't wait to put some serious adventurous miles in.

A few more pics (now I've figured out how to do it!) from last night.

Hello everyone,

First post here.  Hope bumping threads isn't frowned upon here, but I'm just looking for any long term opinions on the Camino Al.  I'm very close to parting with cash for one, I'm going to pop into their shop in the peak district for a quick test ride to confirm.

Everyone seems to be more or less positive about this bike, within reason. Still the case?

I was thinking of getting the Al Camino with SRAM Rival, hydraulic discs and 650b wheels. It's good value for the money.  Another contender is the Whyte Glencoe or the Boardman 8.9adv.  The Sonder is better spec than the Whyte and I can't get along with the Boardman in orange...

Thanks all.

Yeah, still love mine. It’s a bit scruffy now, having survived being hit by a car a few months ago & losing some paint. I’ve also had to redrill & tap one of the tack mounts as I managed to cross thread it.

Still my favourite bike though & I am hoping to replace it with the ti version once winter is over & ive sold my road bike. Plan to run 2 sets of wheels, 650b for general riding & a ‘fast road’ 700c set for when I’m out with roady mates.