So in 118 issues has there been a single person of colour on the cover? Perhaps someone from the editorial team would like to comment?
I did a skim through and couldn't see any. And that's ignoring the male / female imbalance...
Also a disturbing lack of Giraffes.
Middle aged white male for when someone starts totting up the demographic (or we could have a funky poll over there >>). I suspect I'll be in the winning group. Care to guess on the job, the car, the beverage preferences, the bike? There will be no prizes.
Also a disturbing lack of Giraffes.
What a weird thing to say. Never seen a Giraffe out whilst riding but met plenty of different ethnicities and genders out on the trails.
Part of me wonders if it matters (and I stress, [i]part[/i] of me). Britain and the West in general is pretty diverse - a fact that I am grateful for - but sometimes I don’t think that proportional representation is a necessity.
I once lived in the Caribbean, and had a child born there, and suspect that no one would have cared for one second if a white European person was featured in the hospital literature. Heck, it wouldn’t have dawned on us to care either.
I quite often ride a giraffe. Seriously 😉
Never seen a Giraffe out whilst riding but met plenty of different ethnicities and genders out on the trails.
But here is the thing, I haven't. It is strikingly rare to see a person from a minority group out riding. It is also rare to see pro riders who are not white.
The question raised by the Op though is still valid as media should promote diversity
You're obviously Giraffest then Steve.
White males are over-represented in the sport as a whole.
There are definitely good riders who aren't old white men near STWs offices - one of the mechanics at Blazing Saddles is really fast from what I remember.
They seem to do a bit for women, but more in the form of aggressive, militant web articles than just having 50/50 men and women in the photos.
Increasing numbers of women or non-white people in the mag wouldn't be representative of the riding scene as a whole, but it'd give encouragement and provide something more relatable for them. It's not a bad idea.
Yep about time they were on the cover...
i've often mused over the lack of BAME folk when out on the trails, and wonder why? Same goes for ladies... seen a few over the years,but in the main it's white men of a certain vintage...
i don't think anyone is suggesting for one moment that BAME or ladies aren't welcome, nor encouraged for that matter, but surely the mag is appealing to a demographic... one that i fall into. (white, male, 40's, balding, etc)
guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses, and i reckon there'll be a lot of your female Asian types in Asian Bride... and yet I've actually been to a couple of Asian weddings!!
Well I personally know four mountain bikers whom you might characterise as "non white" and I wouldn't say I know masses of mountain bikers, at a complete guess it's less than 100.
You’re obviously Giraffest then Steve.
Wow. Still going with the equal chance of meeting a giraffe vs. a non-white European on the trails then?
But here is the thing, I haven’t.
Come and have a ride around Gisburn or Llandegla or the West Pennine moors. All welcome.
Or maybe you're over thinking it a bit too much and I just really like giraffes.They are like splotchy long necked horsies.
(To save any further confusion.....I do really like giraffes.HtH)
I occasionally ride with a 6ft 4 Rasta, an Afro American and a Japanese couple. (We even have a gay!!)
From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there's a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop, and that leads them into hobbies they can do where they live, which isn't mountain biking/rock climbing/hiking etc. People tend to live with people like themselves, and so the problem perpetuates.
Giraffes have the same number of bones in their necks as humans. The bones are just longer.
I think that whilst diverse role models can be good to get people into the sport, it's a bit chicken and egg, and it is difficult to see how you'd get 50/50 gender and representative other minorities on the cover without significant (positive) discrimination.
I suspect the level of participation is more indicative of society as a whole (white middle class men have the money for toys, and boys are brought up to like mechanical things that fit in with equipment sports like cycling/MTB). Fix that, give it 20-30 years or more, and you'll see a representative sample of british people on the cover of the mag.
I hate the phrase "person of colour" surely by now we are all just humans. Have any "persons of colour" contacted the magazine to offer a story or to lead one of the staff on their local ride & could have their picture taken. Im sure if they did the editorial team would judge the ride on its suitability for a cover shot or pics in the magazine regardless of what "colour" the rider is.
I will say that even though the shop I work in is in a multicultural area 98% of all the riders we see are white so I guess that translates to the amount of possible riders the mag has to choose from.
I'd like to think that the ST team wouldn't deliberately seek out a "person of colour" just to balance the books and gain kudos. Stories & pics should be in on merit not to tick a box
I had low hopes for this thread but it's put a smile on my face already.
FWIW I see plenty of women out on the trails, and an increasing (though still small) number of non-white riders.
+1 for more representation and fewer storm-in-a-teacup articles
Op are you for real? no straight up are you trolling or serious?
I don't see it as an issue at all.
Certainly not a Troll. I'm not certain why you would think that.
I was just hoping to point out the fact to the editorial team. 0/118 seems a poor effort / lack of awareness.
Male + pale = stale. I agree always good to see diversity and representation! 🙂
From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop, and that leads them into hobbies they can do where they live, which isn’t mountain biking/rock climbing/hiking etc. People tend to live with people like themselves, and so the problem perpetuates.
There is/was a National Parks initiative called the Mosaic Project which aimed to take young people from ethnically diverse inner city communities into the outdoors for pretty much those reasons. The idea was to make people aware of the outdoors because the communities they came from had no history of involvement in those activities.
From memory they took individuals and groups out into the National Parks with the aim of those people both becoming involved in the outdoors themselves and inspiring others to do the same.
I thought it was a really positive, worthwhile idea, though it took a lot of online flak from the 'so what, there's nothing stopping them getting outdoors, why should we spend public money on them' mob.
Seems to have worked reasonably well too, see the case studies in the link above.
I'm sure there's an Australian working for the mag.
And there must be an American or 2 judging by the "Super excited" etc phrases often used.
That's enough for me.
Very surprised people spend their time thinking about such things tbh. I bet Chipps hasn't and now has his head in his hands with worry and concern at how his life's gone.
it is difficult to see how you’d get 50/50 gender and representative other minorities on the cover without significant (positive) discrimination.
Eh? No-one is saying 50/50 split. The question is why not on a single cover so far. I think we have established the reason for that (core rider group being predominately white male) so we have now moved on to saying the magazine could help promote diversity by representing riders from other under represented groups.
If occasional positive discrimination is needed to achieve this then good.
Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn't mean it is a bad thing.
Did somebody say giraffe ?
I hate the phrase “person of colour” surely by now we are all just humans.
I was pale blue on Friday night at football training. It was baltic.
Well said Frank.
Rorschach earlier..
You see if I was a non white person and I flicked through a mag in the supermarket I would care not one jot if there was a person of my colour in the mag or in the front, I would be more interested in the content. BUT I am prepared to conceed that I am unable truly to comment as I am indeed white.
Isn't it a case of white people raising these issues thinking non-white people are concerned when in fact nobody cares?
Isn’t it a case of white people raising these issues thinking non-white people are concerned when in fact nobody cares?
Possibly, but as a white person dismissing the issue on the basis of an assertion that if you weren't white you wouldn't care about it, you've kind of made yourself the pot calling the kettle something or other.
guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses
I've been there loads, and unless they are all dogging in the bushes I can safely say glentress isn't full of gay blokes
First thing I pay attention at is the composition of the cover. Is that catching my eye? Is that well shot picture? Did anybody tampered with it beyond necesity?
Then I can see the scenery. Then I can see a bike.
And I do not give a flying monkey who is on the cover. Afro-Caribbean-Trans-Gender-Jew-with-Asian-heritage or Martian, or Panda...
As long as it is good cover I do not really care...
... but that's probably because I'm biased middle-aged white, hetrosexual male with strong Christian cutural and social background...
So unfashionable these days...
Cheers!
I.
Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.
And just because it includes the word positve, doesn't mean it's a good thing either.
guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses
that's cathkin.
Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.
Certain organisations that did for a while engage in positive discrimination would disagree. It certainly causes tension. I think there's a difference between encouragement and discrimination though.
I wouldn't say 0/118 was that far off representative of the ethnic diversity in the sport - certainly of the MTBers I've met very few aren't white (or at least wouldn't appear white in a cover shot).
I'm sure there have been women on the cover, although as I've only had a couple of issues I can't check.
As an example, however, the track league attracts a diverse range of ages, from schoolchildren to 70+, and whilst probably not 50/50 on gender is pretty close, as well as having a visible number of non-white participants. I'm not sure how MTB can come closer to that - I think in a lot of ways, the velodrome is more accessible (cheaper bikes, less maintenance, accessible at a council run facility with hire bikes), and perhaps that's why.
Anyway, it's a great mag and I'd subscribe if I thought I'd have time to read it.
Got to love a good middle aged middle class white man diversity discussion 😉
I've never met nor seen anyone other than a white out on the trails, at BPW, Afan, etc... Hell, even 500+ at SDW last year for the BHF ride, i don't recall anything other than white males/females.
I'm struggling to think of any black riders on the current UCI XCO & DH tour. I'm struggling to think of any black mountain bikers I've ridden with, apart from one Asian guy.
However, in our fully welcoming, non-discriminatory club that is the mighty Bogtrotters, we've got loads of women. Part of me wonders whether there's more women than men. Fair to say that they aren't just dragged along by their other halves either..some seriously hardcore women riders in our club.
Genuine diversity develops naturally, I think. When I was a kid there were virtually no black ice hockey players in the NHL. Today I can think of 4 superstars just of the top of my head. It is a real delight to witness the growth in appeal of the sport. Hopefully, with time, MTBing will go the same way. But a cover or two on STW won’t do it.
Very few out there at the top level these lads a cool though (and ranked above gb men at xco) would be a perfect opportunity for stw to get in touch with them especially as there will be media heading out to Lthose for the enduro there this week
The magazine probably is representative of the population who do cycle.
I’m struggling to think of any black riders on the current UCI XCO & DH tour.
Isn't Eliot Jackson back racing UCI DH for the [b][url= https://www.pinkbike.com/news/giant-factory-off-road-team-prepares-for-2018.html ]Giant Factory Team[/url][/b] this year?
As a person of colour (I'm British ****stani), I don't really care what colour the person is on the cover of the magazine. I'm 40 yrs old but a beginner at mountain biking and read the mag for the articles and advice.
When I was younger my friends and I all had bikes but never really knew that there was actually a sport behind it. It was all cricket and football for us! Our parents didn't really encourage any kind of sports so biking went last in our priorities.
We'll probably see asian pro riders in my kids generation as we do have the time and knowledge to take our kids out for bike rides and show them videos of guys doing gnarly shit. Also my generation is a little more chilled out than my parents generation who wanted their kids to be doctors and engineers (and not pro sports people of any kind!)
AK
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"From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop,"
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Sure, but what proportion of mountain bikers actually live in the countryside?
On STW the rider's often not really the focus of the shot anyway, it's a "riding shot" not a "rider shot", I'm not sure the identity of the rider is actually that important. This might be baseless, but one thing I think happens across the sector is that women on the cover of a bike mag are usually pros- Rachel Atherton, Tracy Moseley, Manon Carpenter and Katy Winton more often than not. Whereas dudes tend to be just your random magazine dudes.
It can't just be radness of shot- that's got to play a part, but anyone can look rad with the right shot, I'm very unrad but I still have photos where I look bloody awesome. But I guess that by and large, there are more rad male civilians out there than there are rad female civilians, and the better female riders are maybe more likely to make the jump to pro? Because skills wise it's definitely easier, a friend of mine races world cups and she's pretty much in the same class of riding as I am, whereas male racers are in another world compared to me.
So is it recognition factor? Let's take it for granted that most mtb mag readers are dudes, so maybe the assumption is we look at other dudes and make a connection regardless if it's Gee Atherton or Chipps. But with women they should be kent faces? But then look at personality-led ads these days, there are a lot of female riders in those. Are advertisers cannier than mag designers?45
You see if I was a non white person and I flicked through a mag in the supermarket I would care not one jot if there was a person of my colour in the mag or in the front
How the **** can you possibly assert that when you aren't (a non-white person)? How could you possibly know that if you had grown up and lived in a society where people who looked like you were rarely represented at all in popular media, and when they were were almost always represented by a stereotype* that you would not care at all about that fact? Easy to not see racism in all its forms as not being a problem when you are not the victim of it, isn't it?**
*It's slowly started to change but for a long time if a brown skinned family moved in on a popular soap opera you were pretty much guaranteed a juicy arranged / forced marriage storyline would follow along shortly. Black? Drug dealer and / or rapper. Gay? HIV storyline approaches... etc. etc. etc..
**I'm a privately educated home-owning heterosexual middle class white man, so not ticking many diversity boxes. The only time I get to experience being in an "out" group is when I get on my bike.
Eh? No-one is saying 50/50 split. The question is why not on a single cover so far. I think we have established the reason for that (core rider group being predominately white male) so we have now moved on to saying the magazine could help promote diversity by representing riders from other under represented groups.
If occasional positive discrimination is needed to achieve this then good.
Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.
In my opinion discrimination in any form is a bad thing, regardless of polarity.
Got to love a good middle aged middle class white man diversity discussion
On what forum is that happening ?
30 years ago cycling in the UK was a much more niche sport and leisure activity; one which was more the preserve of the less well off. Arguably what changed that were the Olympic successes beginning with Chris Boardman and the arrival of mountain bikes/mountain biking.
If anything would be likely to get more people from minority groups riding*, it would be seeing their role models riding bikes.
* other than seeing one of their particular minority winning an Olympic medal etc. (which is a chicken and egg situation: by the law of averages enough of them need to take up the sport first to have a prospect of such success).
Maybe there's scope for STW to have a regular article akin to Top Gear's 'Star in a reasonably priced car', where a sporting or entertainment celebrity from a minority group is invited to go on a mountain bike ride and is provided with a bike and the necessary kit. It's possible that the likes of Mo Farah, Idris Elba or similar big names might be willing to particpate without a fee if it is understood that STW are not making much if any profit from the articles (but are doing it because they think it's a good thing to encourage others into the sport). By the same token, maybe some of the bike manufacturers would be willing to provide the celeb with a free bike for the article (especially if they are a big manufacturer that would value the PR and can see the potential for such promotional activity to draw large numbers of potential new customers from minority groups into the sport).
There's a "SINGLETRACK" magazine. shocker!!!!!
perhaps nobody in singletrack towers has heard of these lads. Perhaps an article by fthem on the forum or in print
Random musing: In 6 years I've never seen anyone in the forum say they're gay.
There's one gay of each gender that spring to mind.
In 6 years I’ve never seen anyone in the forum say they’re gay.
Really? I can't see why they should but I can think of a couple off the top of my head,.
Anyway - what about more kids on the covers? I bet there are loads of kids riding bikes and they're not represented very well.
What about gay kids?
Anyhow, just more of a thought I had that never see it discussed or mentioned by posters. Unrelated to this I guess. Carry on 🙂
In 6 years I’ve never seen anyone in the forum say they’re gay
How many have you seen say they are heterosexual? [rolls eyes]
There’s one gay of each gender that spring to mind.
How many is that exactly?
The more you scratch it, diverse it gets...
Is that my coat?
One day this place will disappear up its own arse.
It must be like sea fishing. I have yet to see a 'non white' person sea fishing.
Lots & LOTS of east europeans when it's macky bashing season though.
Edit, I stand corrected, my mates wife is from Thailand & she's been fishing with him on Seaham pier.
Anyway, why no decent prog rock on R1 Xtra?
And the lack of indoor bowls people of colour is really getting to me .
grrrrr! I want to kill a giraffe! (Just joking- I only want to eat one. Someone else can do the crappy bit.)
How many gingers have been on the cover? I expect that are far more ginger mountain bikers than there are from other ethnic minorities. There should be more gingers on the cover!
I personally don't believe that the magazine needs to or should promote ethnic diversity. It is a mountain bike magazine. It's about mountain biking for mountain bikers. I want to see inspirational photo's not a tick box exercise in covering every minority or whatever.
Never mind the people, where is the bike diversity? It’s always bloody mountain bikes. What’s wrong with a road bike, unicycle, trike or penny farthing. It’s the bike equivalent of racism and it needs to stop.
Plus in recent years since the magazine has become more gnarr to the power of rad, what's with all the Body English? Talk about lack of diversity, I'm surprised our friends from north of the border haven't boycotted the magazine for that reason alone....
I want to see inspirational photo’s not a tick box exercise in covering every minority or whatever.
Well said.
I was going to say, 'who gives a shite'
But obviously a few do. But not me.
What about gay giraffes? I don’t see any representation for them in the magazine. Yet I know they do exist!
How many have you seen say they are heterosexual? [rolls eyes]
I'll be generous and assume you're not just trying to be a clever-dick.
To explain what's in my head, it's a two part thing I guess.
1. I've seen plenty of threads with "I think I drink too much/I'm being bullied at work/I've got mental health issues/my marriage is falling apart", etc. All a bit not the 'norm'. However the thread is one way of getting people to discuss, often with a decent and informative tone.
2. I have seen race mentioned in various guises, and then people pop up to say "hey, I'm not white", such as in this thread. Again, an opportunity for it to get discussed and opinions informed.
Just never seen anything similar regarding about being gay, that's all.
EDT: I've just realised that this all sounds a bit like I'm trying to come out 🙂
It’s okay bear, there are no closets in the STW forums. Just lots of bikes, a couple of giraffes and too many white folks!
Is anyone else really hoping to see a Giraffe on next month's front cover? We the readers demand it!
Can we redefine the term coloured when applied to humans?
Surely the only people who can really be termed coloured are redheads, the rest are just pasty or shady colours.
A redhead has blue eyes (usually), pink skin mottled with brown and sometimes greenish spots depending on sun exposure, and blue veins showing through the bits the sun doesn't reach.
That's colour. 🙂
Redheads? Awful things.
perhaps nobody in singletrack towers has heard of these lads. Perhaps an article by fthem on the forum or in print
Cycling Plus did a big feature on Brothers on Bikes last year - was a really good read 👍
I can't help feeling you are compensating for something by posting that photo.
This is not the only hobby/ magazine where this discussion is relevant. Not by a long chalk.
I was a metal detectorist for many years (yes, the series does nail the hobby very well! 😃) and only ever saw one asian gentleman in all that time, including rallys where hundreds of people attended.
I mention it just to point out that biking and Singletrack are only part of a bigger picture.
there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop,
I can vouch for that living in New Forest for last 20 years I have never seen a non-white person riding off road. I think there may even be a bye law that doesn't allow non-white people but I will need to check.
Special case though as you would only ride in the New Forest if you lived there as the riding is so dull that if you are going to drive somewhere to go for a ride you wouldn't go to the New Forest which would discount the town/city dwellers.
