Well their marketing blurb will obviously say it does but in the real world is it worth the extra pennies per litre? My local BP is flogging it at 4p a litre more than normal diesel so now on my 2nd tankful in a 10 year old van. I'm sure it really does now run smoother, quieter, less smoke (haven't measured mpg economy yet) - Mrs says it's because I want to believe it and it's the placebo effect. Anyone else use it?
I think the petrol V-power only really makes a difference if the engine is tuned to make the most of it.
Yes it does in my 1998 VW passat 110 tdi it used to give me an extra 100 miles per tank and made the engine run quieter and cleaner!
Didn't notice any difference when I tried the premium stuff.
I once destroyed the engine of a Sierra hire car by using higher octane fuel than was recommended, apparently.
It did go a lot quicker for a little while though.
The pair of them have "get clean" treat rate additives in them vs the "stay clean" of their normal counterparts. Both will have same "base" diesel as any other brand/supermarket. The only way of really altering performance figures in diesels is to change the hco* ratio of the fuel, stick in some very high cetane product (**gtl) then remap.
*Hydrogen, carbon, oxygen
** gas to liquid / Fischer trops
I honestly believe it allows a little more power out of my 10k old golf. I can recall a test saying an extra 5% power is available when using it. Is that noticeable? Well, I think so. Is it worth it? Probably not.
Gave me better mpg in my Seat, possibly cheaper overall.
Response, noise, mpg all improved. Maybe a placebo!? Either way; never, ever fill up at a supermarket. My folks took their car in with coughing \ spluttering, apparently their not alone. Mechanics suggested impurities (including water!) Throughout the system. From the big T (not Topman) if you were wondering...
When shell had the lego Ferrari model offer I was "obliged" by the kids to use the v power. Over a month of use I clocked at 48mpg on v power. After the model collection was complete and back to regular fuel, a month of use acheived 41mpg. Peugeot 1.6tdi 110bhp.
Oh..that's over about 20000 miles per month.
Gave me better mpg in my Seat, possibly cheaper overall.
Same for me and my Seat.
Vpower (or Optimax as was) definitely makes a difference in my bike, but then it's a little highly strung. It runs alright on standard pump fuel but it's not delighted about it. The economy's worse but that'll be the "feels good, rev more" thing.
In the car, I can't feel a performance difference with posh diesel, there might be one, but it's beneath my tolerances. It does seem to get better mpg but not, I think, as much as the cost difference between that and asda's finest. THen it is only mildly tuned
I notice a difference with v power diesel, I get another 50 or so miles out of a tank. But it's still not quite enough to justify the extra price, but it definitely works.
i use it in my bmw 330 & also notice higher mpg
ages ago used the diesel and got better MPG in my Audi (n reg) and Transit, however it worked out to be about the same p/mile. It just meant I didn't worry when I lined up at the wrong pump at the busy garage near work.
there a perceptible difference when I've accidentally put it in my company car
Injectors are incredibly receptive to quality of fuel. Different additive packages can have a massive impact on the quality of the fuel spray, atomisation and then combustion. The additives can also affect the fuel burn pattern. The "branded" fuel generally will have v good additives in, but can vary between regions depending on the feedstock of the base diesel/gasoline. Most of the "effect" is the car/bike running at its optimum design.
The petrol has a different octane rating so there are differences in how it burns compared to normal unleaded. That being said you will only notice the difference if relatively high performance engines. Think hot hatch rather than Nissan micra. Whether it's worth the extra money is however another question.
I've no idea about the differences in the diesel.
The actual, proper answer is this:
Higher octane fuels will indeed make a difference, but only if the engne has knock sensors fitted. Knock sensors allow the fueling and the detonation to be changed to make use of the higher octane fuel.
Most engines with Turbos have Knock sensors. If you have, for example, a Subaru Impreza WRX, then yes the higher octane fuel will allow the engine to generate more power.
If you have a 1.2 naturally aspirated Clio or similar, forget it.
never, ever fill up at a supermarket. My folks took their car in with coughing \ spluttering, apparently their not alone. Mechanics suggested impurities (including water!) Throughout the system. From the big T (not Topman) if you were wondering...
What do Shell snd Tesco have in common?
Neither have a refinery in the UK! That fact alone should dispell most of the myths about the differences between fuels.
Oh..that's over about 20000 miles per month.
Which airline do you work for?
Tinas we hae had this debate before (me and you)
We had a transit that would hunt at idle when filled on tesco fuel.
When filled with shell or asda it ran like a dream.
Are all the companies using the same amount of bio diesel ? Tesco are at 6 or 7 % biodiesel. - this shit likes to sludge up and cause water in tank if left for long periods- not that our transit was it would just run like a bag o spanners once it got to the tesco fuel.
Anecdotally,
When I had the bike, I found that it ran better (smoother, more responsive) on the rocket fuel stuff; however, it continued to do so for a while afterwards if I went back to the regular fuel, gradually tailing off back to 'normal.' I found that the best performance / price trade-off was to put the ZOMG MAX POWER stuff in every four or five fills or so.
Could easily have been placebo / confirmation bias of course, but that was what (I believed) I'd observed.
We had a transit that would hunt at idle when filled on tesco fuel.
Anecdotally again; back in the early 90s, before the rise of Supermarket forecourt dominance, I found that my car (a 15 year old Mk1 Fiesta Rustbucket) simply wouldn't run properly on Texaco. Anything else was fine, put Texaco in and it felt like it was running on three cylinders.
Chaps, just to clarify (I work in this industry).
Base diesels in the UK are by far and large the same between all brands/supermarkets. There are regional differences, but that's about it.
Branded fuel (Shell, BP, Philips etc), have proprietry additive packages in. These add packs are designed to "enhance" characteristics of fuel, such as fuel spray pattern, anti-coking, cold flow improver, detergent (for removing coking). These things have a large impact on performance of the engine..
Supermaket fuels, whilst they do have some additives in, they are generally "off-the-shelf" at minimal cost, so will not give the same performance.
Gasoline is slightly different, in that V Power is a different base gasoline from one refinery in the UK.
Engine Oils, are a similar issue as well.
End of lesson.
edit - bio diesel is currently capped at 5%, this will rise to max 7% when the new EN590 is ratified by all member states. The quality of Bio that ends up in fuel (irrespective of where from) is largely economically decided - suffice to say a lot of used cooking oil ends up in UK diesel which is SH!T..
Sui
posh stuff that you described as "get clean" - how often might a chap use that to be sure that there's no shite in there (diesel) ?
ALso, what do you think of additives like Millers ?
(for teacher) :
[img] 
[/img]
I had a Smart Fortwo for quite a few years with a stage 1 map on it (changed airfilter and slight remap) and I only ever put 97/98 in it. I ran really well for a 600cc turbo and it was recommended and it ran really well indeed. Once in a while I would put in 95 and it ran markedely slower and sluggish.. but then it's a teeny car and teeny fairly high strung engine..
As for my BabeMagnet I have now I only fill with 97/98, comes recommeneded by the Manufacturuer and I can get 350/360 to the tankful, I have run it with 95 in it (local garage only sells this stuff) and I get about 320 per tank.
So do I notice the performance? I think so, I think it picks up better and sounds better, but is it worth it cost wise? I think so, it's only a few pence differance.
I've also owned a Pius Hybrid and that ran better on 95...
I've also a diesel van that wouldn't/couldn't care less what you put in it and makes no marked differance..
sui
so any named garage will, in general, have better quality additives in their diesel?
basically, morrisons is just over the road from bp, they're typically within 1p of each other, is it worth buying at bp in preference?
basically, morrisons is just over the road from bp, they're typically within 1p of each other, is it worth buying at bp in preference?
At 80p a tank for my old transit in difference it would be whichever was easier to turn into.
SP
"Posh Stuff", depends what you're replacing it from - Supermarket, probably every other tank. If Branded, then you don't really need to, though it will work better than an after treatment type.
MMF
1ppl you will benefit from Branded. Consider that a REDEX cost £7 a bottle - over 50 litres that's 14pence per litre a tank - the sums speak volumes, you'd have to look at using it over min 7 tanks to break even.
Remember it's not just an increase in fuel economy (as the engine will run more towards it's manufacturing output), but consider wear and tear on parts as well as OIL!!
On our car - 1.8T mk1 TT - the 'premium' fuel makes about 10-12% difference in average MPG over a month.
If the premium fuel costs less than 10% [i]more[/i] than regular fuel, I'm better off (financially).
It's well maintained, serviced every 6-8k (currently on 92k).
You can hear the difference in engine note, so I can easily tell if mrs xiphon filled the car up with 'cheap' petrol.
I was sceptical at first......
"Oh..that's over about 20000 miles per month."
O_O
Sui - I want to believe...but what exactly do you do "in the industry"? You could sell petrol and Mars bars at a service station!
Are benefits of using the go go juice likely to accrue on motors that have used the supermarket stuff for years or only if you use it from new?
cb - that's what most people actually say I do 🙂
Sales/Consultant on 'fuels technology and impact on automotive (and aviation) systems/engines/components/additives/lubricants' is the easiest term.
In terms of additives, I found that filling the tank of my diesel T5 about a quarter full of unleaded, then topping up with diesel, did, luckily, nothing at all 😐 *phew*
I always think R&D costs money and am happy to pay a modest premium for it (e.g. proper Scotch tape, but generic paracetamol). One tank in four is a reasonable rate for the effects of engine cleaning additives.
Weight of right foot and traffic have a much greater bearing on fuel economy than fuel additives. Air temperature is also a covariate, as my long-term commuting statistics used to show. 20,000 miles/mo is about 16 days a month - perfectly doable for a professional driver at 8 hours per day for 20 working days/mo. When I stopped commuting by car I was driving 2400 commuting miles/mo. I drove that for ten years, and yes, I kept a record of every tank 🙄 .
Well spotted, I meant 2000 miles per month.
thisisnotaspoon - MemberWhat do Shell snd Tesco have in common?
Neither have a refinery in the UK! That fact alone should dispell most of the myths about the differences between fuels.
Sui - MemberChaps, just to clarify (I work in this industry).
Gasoline is slightly different, in that V Power is a different base gasoline from one refinery in the UK.
Who's right?
It would seem to be the case that Shell do not have any UK refineries any more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#United_Kingdom
However, according to various sources online V-Power comes from the Stanlow refinery, which used to belong to Shell but they sold it a few years ago.
MrOvershoot - Memberthisisnotaspoon - Member
What do Shell snd Tesco have in common?
Neither have a refinery in the UK! That fact alone should dispell most of the myths about the differences between fuels.
Sui - Member
Chaps, just to clarify (I work in this industry).
Gasoline is slightly different, in that V Power is a different base gasoline from one refinery in the UK.
Who's right?
ME
packer - MemberIt would seem to be the case that Shell do not have any UK refineries any more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#United_Kingdom
However, according to various sources online V-Power comes from the Stanlow refinery, which used to belong to Shell but they sold it a few years ago.
you are bang on with that one (I did already say that about VPower). Total are the only people in the UK with their own refinery. HOWEVER exchange agreements exist, where every brand can draw of every other terminal irrespective of brand. The terminals will hold tanks with the "proprietry" and bog standard add packs for different Brands.
I've never noticed a difference or had any reason to complain about supermarket fuel but will make an effort to switch for the next dozen fill ups to see if there is a difference.
I'll only be switching to branded rather than the Max Power diesel as my fuel card only covers regular diesel 🙁
To be fair I didn't read your reply properly anyway as you said:
[i]"V Power is a different base gasoline from one refinery in the UK."[/i]
Not V Power came from a Shell refinery.
Anyway I might give it a go one day as my car is slightly fussy on fuel, Morrisons stuff makes it as rough as a bears arse, but Sainsburys stuff is OK & Shell does seem to make it just that bit cleaner on pickup?
Been on a long drive today and I'm not imagining it, van definitely picks up quicker and runs smoother on it, I'm now a convert
Every time i have actually worked it out, the difference in MPG is pretty much identical to the difference in cost. ie no benefit really either way in terms of costs. However, i think that for a diesel the improved additive package is probably worth paying for on an occasional basis. As such, i do say 5 tanks of supermarket Derv to 1 Vpower etc.
The best way to save money on fuel is just to drive more economically / slower!
hate to admit it but I don't really worry too much about economy, having a smoother quicker van is worth the 4p difference to me, particularly if I can now overtake the hoardes of slow moving Honda Jazz's where I live
This has got me intrigued enough to try it, at the client's expense thankfully. I certainly know that I get worse mpg in the Jag from Sainsbury's diesel than I do from my local Shell. An easy 5mpg per tank. Will be interesting to see if premium Shell improves it over standard. Mine is a 3l V6 oil burner, so whilst not exactly the most fuel efficient on the planet, isn't too bad given it's level of poke.
The best way to save money on fuel is just to drive more economically / slower!
Aint dat da troof!
Been reading about adding two stroke oil to diesel to improve performance mpg etc
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic83987.html
I have had to replace sensors twice in our MR2 both times after using sainsburys fuel , my mate a Toyota technician said both times it was due to the fuel mix. I also used Sainsburys in my celica daily driver and it didn't feel as responsive to the shell I usually use. I know this debate can run on and on but from my personal experience (maybe due to my cars both have similar engines) there's a difference between shell & sainsburys fuel .
A mate of mine spends quite a lot of time at Fawley. He reckons "everybody" there thinks Shell fuels are the best performing* (I don't think that's historical allegiance - believe Fawley's a BP place really)
*clearly they may "all" be gobshites
Hmmm might explain the drop in mpg after fiiling up at sainsburys.
I actually get worse mpg driving slightly slower/ lower rpm only a few mpg but noticable. Isnt maximum torque where the engines most efficent? Obviously this changes with load.
High octane petrol - no difference unless you have a turbo or a high compression ie actual sportscar engine.
Higher cetane diesel affects any diesel car regardless. I thought V-Power/Ultimate was higher cetane as well as cleaner? Higher cetane supposedly gives better starting, smoother running, better power and better economy.
Anecdotally, in my Passat, the fancy stuff runs a bit quieter and definitely starts better. However, starting on normal is never a problem anyway. I can't tell if there's any more power, and any improvement in economy is lost in the normal variation so I can't tell. I don't drive the same route regularly in the same conditions.
I've also noticed that normal Total diesel is pretty smooth, and doesn't cost extra.
Isnt maximum torque where the engines most efficent?
Not really - depends on loads and loads of things, including engine load. And how you define efficiency. Fuel/engine power ratio, fuel/speed or fuel/distance...?
molgrips - MemberHigh octane petrol - no difference unless you have a turbo or a high compression ie actual sportscar engine.
Or a lot of ignition advance.
honest john at the torygraph seems to think it's worth it.
My old jap import Hona Predlude use to run best on Essos posh stuff. More miles to the tank and a lot smoother. That had a knock sensor and they do have 99ron fuel over in Japan so it makes sense with that.
backinireland - when I had an old VW T4 van I heard too from other owners about using 2 stroke oil in diesel to help/improve running though I never tried it
Don't really bother with the 'posh' fuels so can't comment on them, but Sainsburys diesel is the only one where I notice the car never feels as powerful. It doesn't like running on it.
As Sui points out though adding cetane booster can be cheaper. Also worth trying - the relevant chemical is called 2-EHN or 2-ethylhexyl nitrate, which you can buy on ebay where it's vastly cheaper than Millers etc. It has a very distinctive smell, and you can smell it when you fill with V-Power diesel.
Please God, be careful with that stuff in neat form....
I was very cynical about some diesel being better than others, but in my car it's noticeable when a DPF forced regen takes place. With supermarket diesel I seem to get about 1 forced regen per tank. With standard BP or Shell I get one every few tanks. With V-power or equivalent posh diesel I hardly ever seem to get a regen, and it seems to go further on a tank although I suspect not enough to make the difference in price worth it.
Thanks for the info Sui. - May try it myself.
My Renault Diesel usually gets fed either Morrisons or Esso.
Runs lovely and smooth, with decent acceleration & MPG on Morisons, but it does have an odd smell to it when it comes out of the exhaust pipe.
Barring the smell, it's almost identical in performance as Shell / Esso.
Running on Tesco diesel, it feels a tad sluggish & MPG drops slightly, Asda diesel ( last time I tried it), car just didn't feel happy.
Chris
"the relevant chemical is called 2-EHN or 2-ethylhexyl nitrate, which you can buy on ebay where it's vastly cheaper "
surely that will just get confiscated by royal snail ?
...or maybe it's [i]just[/i] your mate who's the gobshite!A mate of mine spends quite a lot of time at Fawley. He reckons "everybody" there thinks Shell fuels are the best performing...clearly they may "all" be gobshites...
molgrips - MemberHigh octane petrol - no difference unless you have a turbo or a high compression ie actual sportscar engine.
Do you know that for sure?
birney29 - MemberThe actual, proper answer is this:
Higher octane fuels will indeed make a difference, but only if the engne has knock sensors fitted. Knock sensors allow the fueling and the detonation to be changed to make use of the higher octane fuel.
Most engines with Turbos have Knock sensors. If you have, for example, a Subaru Impreza WRX, then yes the higher octane fuel will allow the engine to generate more power.
If you have a 1.2 naturally aspirated Clio or similar, forget it.
Boggo (non-turbo) petrol Focuses have knock sensors. Be surprised if other cars didn't.
Having a knock sensor doesn't neccesarily mean that it's using that information to provide performance benefits, though. (well, OK, that's handwavey, arguably just about everything a car does is a performance benefit; but you know what I mean. There's a baseline, it could be that all the knock sensor does is retard the ignition or whatever when it detects knock, rather than increase the advance (or boost, or whatevs) when it detects it has headroom.
not diesel.. but i use shell V-Power unleaded in my car.. 1.6 Citroen Saxo..
noticed absolutely no difference in performance..
but the average MPG jumped from 42 to 46..! this is compared to normal shell petrol.. supermarket stuff was lower than 42..
It worked out at quite a bit of a saving in total fuel costs over the year 🙂
Please God, be careful with that stuff in neat form....
Why? Seriuos question.
Regarding high octane pertol, I was under the impression that it's reduced volatility enables you to run a higher compression ratio which gives mite power and economy. But in order to run these engines on normal petrol as well, they have to retard ignition to prevent knock. So they effectively detune themselves. But given the high octane stuff they will sense this and put themselves back in a more efficient setup.
This used to be only sports cars that did this, but maybe some more modern engines so it for economy reasons, dunno. 5th gear tsted this many years ago now.
Spacehopper - that could have been the result of cleaning your engine.
My company runs a fleet of 2,500 yellow Transits. These are all fitted with telematic systems that record very accurately all engine parameters including fuel consumption.
A couple of years ago about 100 of these were run on exclusively V power diesel for 1 year, the rest of us used the normal stuff.
The idea was to test the claims of better economy in the real world and see if the extra cost of the fuel was worth it.
They never published the results of the test but everybody is now back to running standard diesel so you can draw your own conclusions!
Its the fuel.
I've dropped back to the normal fuel a couple of times to test and the results always the same..
i always fill up with a full tank from running on completley empty.. and then did three tanks full in a row of the normal shell.
normal shell 42 mpg ish
V-Power 46mpg ish
He's sensible and quite a sceptic generally, and told the story in a relatively disbelieving way - like there was a massive conspiracy afootRusty Shackleford - Member
A mate of mine spends quite a lot of time at Fawley. He reckons "everybody" there thinks Shell fuels are the best performing...clearly they may "all" be gobshites...
...or maybe it's just your mate who's the gobshite!
The idea was to test the claims of better economy in the real world and see if the extra cost of the fuel was worth it.
In my opinion, the fancy diesel is better, but not better enough to be worth it. I'd choose Shell or Total regular given the choice.
Mol, it makes you go a bit gaga when you breath the fumes in... not in a good way either..
Huge difference, my xtrail which I had from new back in 2004 had over 200,000 on the clock and the smoke coming from the exhaust was dangerous to one & all plus the acceleration was becoming ever more snail like so I thought what the hell lets give it go.
The first change was less and less exhaust smoke and then bit by bit the acceleration improved and the mpg was noticeably better. My xtrail goes this month after wonderful 10 years and 230,000 miles and its running great on posh diesel 🙂
bum, only just filled the yeti up on tesco value.
next time I'll go for the finest range
I really noticed the difference by the second tankful, I guess it takes a while to help clean system
Glad to be of service 8)
