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I bloody hate these things. I see them as the natural extension of lazy riders. Here's s video of the buntywackers radding it up at Swinley.
Change my mind...
Yeah I saw that the other day and commented on the video actually. Just noticed I got called a Karen for my troubles too 😂
Obviously they would be an insane amount of fun, but are a disaster for mtb trails, especially in sensitive areas.
Damage through sheer torque, speed and so naturally trail conflict.
A quick Google suggests 200nm torque and 49kg.
Compared to your average pedal assist ebike about twice on both counts plus a bit more.
I think the dude in the video compares them to regular ebikes which clearly they are nothing like.
This I can only see becoming more of a problem in the future.
Add it to the list... 😐
These are electric motorbikes, aren’t they? Not legal or appropriate for riding on MTB trails.
They do look pretty cool but you'd have to be a complete throbber to ride one round Swinley
Well certainly the rider we can see fits the complete throbber look and attitude. Tenuous argument that they’re no different from bikes!
Special mention to the guy at the bottom of babymaker who fell straight out of bmx bandits. That’s some matchy matchy kit and bike going on.
“it’s an ebike” ffs grow and pair and at least admit what it actually is
Pretty brave to have your license plate in the video of you breaking the law. (on the van, near the start) 😳
Pair of throbbers.
I get the rage at these things. Maybe the same rage that pedal riders get for a legitimate ebikes
It's an Mx bike, regardless of electric or petrol powered.
But I'm sure petrol Mx bikes have been ridden where they shouldn't be for years and at least these are quiet. Not that I'm defending them, personally I would like to see them taken from them and crushed.
They must know that they are not meant to ride them there so why go when you know there will be plenty of people there? if your going to ride those kind of bikes where your not allowed then do it early in the morning or evenings during the week
Moto x bikes have been ridden illegally near me since before i was born (im in my 40's) but they keep away from main paths and have their own tracks, the police clamp down now and again but most of the time they are left alone and do no harm to anyone
Pretty surprised no one has reported them to the police and Swinley's crown estate and shown them their own footage, wouldn't be hard to trace them given one of them owns the Youtube account and the other has his van reg clearly shown in the vid
Slightly disappointed that the van is taxed and MOT’d
Complain about the issue to the local police force. Most have a facebook page. Linking to the video evidence helps. If the powers that be don't know then it isn't a problem.
Same with the idiots in cars that deliberately abuse or ram cyclists.
If it's leads to the occasional police presence in trail centre car parks on their 'beat' then could help deter the odd bike theif too.
They look a lot of fun, in the right environment.
Sold by "Stag" https://stagmotorcycles.co.uk/ which is a motorcycle shop.
But I ride my bicycle on ground I'm not supposed to, so I'm confused about making any moral judgement on this 🤷♂️
But I ride my bicycle on ground I’m not supposed to, so I’m confused about making any moral judgement on this 🤷♂️
Riding a bike on a footpath or private woods is civil trespass at worst.
Riding one of these things on or off road is a criminal offence.
So I'm not conflicted in the slightest!
As everyone else says they're a motorcycle, except they're not even licensed for road use according to the suron website, so the only place you can use them without breaking the law is private land.
Very dodgy behaviour riding them round swinley and on the roads around there. Won't be long before they get caught.
My comments were met with a wall of 'karen' and 'it's electric and a bike, it's an ebike'.... And have now been deleted.
I think this will become a bigger and bigger issue as more and more of these things are sold.
There's enough selfish and stupid individuals that reporting to police is the only way.
A friend of mine bought two of these last year (one each for him and his wife). He’s spent some time trying to convince me that they’re great but, from the short razz around in his field that I had, I’m unconvinced. Ride nothing like an enduro/mx bike or a trials bike, pretty crap brakes, no clutch, - underwhelming in an understatement.
I did ask him where he plans to use them, since it’s a mile up the road to the nearest forestry (so illegal there then) and illegal once he’s in the forest too, although he did say that he met a forestry guy who didn’t give him any hassle and was just interested in what it was. This was probably just someone who couldn’t give a monkey’s though...
I’m sure that if some member of the public informed the law then they’d be far more than interested “and how did you get it to here anyway sir? Oh, up this here road?
No, I can’t be too “holier than thou” because bitd I rode trials bikes pretty much everywhere, legal or not, as did most of us.
But at least they were (mostly) road legalish,and insured.
****ers.
Oh and both wheels on the van parked with just the edge on the kerb. Can't even park properly ****ers.
Seeing increasing numbers of e-motorbikes on our local trails. Even right in the middle of Rivington terraced gardens - a bit of a visitor honey pot for those who don't know it.
Police make a decent effort to stop MXers, so I hope a few of these get confiscated as well.
As long as they are no quicker than an ebike (20mph?) and use MTB parts I don’t see a problem. People don’t like change shocker.
TBH, the "Swinley" bit I dont actually mind. If they stick to Babymaker in summer then it's mostly kicking up a bit of dust and probably knocking the edge off the ruts 🤷♂️
But inevitably they'll ride the other bits and at other times too. The mid section of 15 struggles in winter (lots of braking), and the flatter more boring trails probably present a bit of a challenge (seagull i/ii/iii, Satan's grotto and they don't hold up at all well in winter even under normal bikes).
I think they have a niche, but piggybacking on 'free' MTB infrastructure isn't it. I'm sure they would be an absolute hoot if you could build a bike park for them, but without being constrained by needing such large elevation.
tails
Free Member
As long as they are no quicker than an ebike (20mph?) and use MTB parts I don’t see a problem. People don’t like change shocker.
I'm assuming sarcasm, as no, they use a 70/100-19 motorbike tyre, and do 45mph.
In terms of performance they're closer to a derestricted 50cc motorbike.
As long as they are no quicker than an ebike (20mph?) and use MTB parts I don’t see a problem. People don’t like change shocker.
45mph top speed.
As long as they are no quicker than an ebike (20mph?) and use MTB parts I don’t see a problem. People don’t like change shocker.
There is the rub - these things are faster, have a lot more torque to rip up trails, and change where that speed is applied.
Suron max power =6000watts and not legally classed as a bicycle, not legally classed as anything as far as I know so can only be used on private land.
Ebike, max power = ~500watts and complies with legislation to allow them to be legally classed as a bicycle so can be used anywhere a bicycle can
They may as well be riding a yamaha 250cc mx bike through swinley, its just as legal.
As long as they are no quicker than an ebike (20mph?)
15.5mph is the UK legal limit for an ebike. Do you think these things are limited to that?
I can only assume confusion between a UK legal emtb and an electric Mx bike must come from those who know nothing about emtb.
250w and chassis stickered to that effect, no throttle, 15.5mph.
It would be a bit tragic if mtb riders thought these things were classed as bicycles. That what the surron riders claim they are if they fit a pedal kit.
Do you think these things are limited to that.
In this instance no, but I’d have no problem with a similar contraption that was limited and wasn’t pedalled. I thought the OP was upset that they weren’t pedalled. TBF the guys in the video are going slower than most bike riders down that flow track.
Almost worth subscribing to his channel for the inevitable 'i was just riding around Camberley and my bike was confiscated' video.
I did see one video on those saying it was restricted to 25kph. Those aren't though, obviously.
15.5mph is the UK legal limit for an ebike. Do you think these things are limited to that?
15.5mph is the point where assist stops, you can go as fast as you like conditions permitting such as down a big hill on a national speed limit road. Just as you can on any bicycle.
People don’t like change shocker.
Or just people don't like motorbikes on the trails.
The public Facebook page sur-ron / Segway owners UK is rife with their bellendery unfortunately.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/SurronownersUk
That's a lot of dislikes for the number of likes. Think that speaks for itself.
15.5mph is the point where assist stops, you can go as fast as you like conditions permitting such as down a big hill on a national speed limit road. Just as you can on any bicycle
Thank you. I was being lazy and not typing a complete reply.
lol @ the ebike limit, the only ones i've ever seen are chipped.
It’s basically (or actually) an electric MX bike. There’s no argument for them being on an MTB trail, footpath, bridleway that doesn’t allow petrol powered MX bikes.
I’m sure they’re great fun if you’re somewhere that you can let rip and go. Just the same as an MX bike is but MTB trails aren’t that place.
I have nothing against e-bikes and if I could afford the money (abs time) I’d get one as a second bike, but these definitely are not them.
And if the public start lumping them in with MTB and e-bikes it’s only going to do the image of the sport and access lots of problems.
Although a restricted version or something similar would be great for people with a disability that doesn’t allow them to pedal (Martyn Ashton being the prime example) but want to try/return to MTB
Even thier own owners group, in amongst the plums, have threads on making these things legal or where you can ride them.
For example:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/SurronownersUK/permalink/796014791152153/
First Class 🛎 end riding one of those round Swinley.
It’s an electric MX bike pure & simple.
And if the public start lumping them in with MTB and e-bikes it’s only going to do the image of the sport and access lots of problems.
I recognise this concern but I'd actually give landowners and walkers more credit, as it's easily noticeable when someone's ripping along with their feet up, not pedaling.
Might even have some use as a common enemy, IYKWIM.
as it’s easily noticeable when someone’s ripping along with their feet up, not pedaling.
thats every e-bike i've ever seen.
I love all the "I've never had any complaints" self justifications immediately after someone complains...
People don’t like change shocker.
Nah, I just don't like pricks on Motorbikes knackering trails built specifically for MTBs, causing conflict with walkers and probably contributing to people's general dislike of bikes... So **** em, I hope their toys get confiscated.
In this instance no, but I’d have no problem with a similar contraption that was limited and wasn’t pedalled
Also bear in mind that they weight 50kg
thats every e-bike i’ve ever seen.
Really?
I see tons on my local rides, all the normal pedal-assist type.
Have you been seeing e-motorbikes?
Yep only people on ebikes not pedalling on road and off. never actually seen an e-motorbike. Saw an e-scooter with pedals flailing like a food mixer doing about 45 up hill once.
I love all the “I’ve never had any complaints” self justifications immediately after someone complains…
Exactly the response I got when I had words with a knob on one of these last year.
Funnily enough it then turned out that Del, of this parish, had had similar words with the same bloke a few weeks earlier at a different spot.
So they'll lie through the teeth to try and excuse themselves, but guarantee they know they're in the wrong.
“”as it’s easily noticeable when someone’s ripping along with their feet up, not pedaling.
“thats every e-bike i’ve ever seen.””
I don’t know where you hang out but I think I’ve seen one person riding one of those illegal no-pedalling-required ebikes and dozens and dozens on proper ebikes.
****ers.
The question is surely:
Are the Swinley trails a suitable place for electric MX bikes with 7kw & a top speed of 50mph? The answer is no, they is not suitable for purpose built MTB trails ANYWHERE.
Swinley is rammed to the gills with users of all kinds of all kinds of abilities - have a care & respect rule no 1.
(I don’t necessarily have an issue with these bikes in the appropriate environment.)
Swinley is rammed to the gills with users of all kinds of all kinds of abilities – have a care & respect rule no 1.
I think the issue with e-bikes at Swinley is the 'good' bits are easy to string together in a shorter loop. Coupled with the higher average speed means more interactions with them*.
So every time you go you get overtaken by a tit on an e-bike, or someone blatantly with throttle control not peddling. And annoyingly frequently, e-bike going the wrong way.
Ironically e-bikers may well not see other e-bikers being tits for the same reason the rest of us don't see the idiots on normal bikes. Because they're going the same speed so far less likely to meet each other.
*However fit/unfit you are you're only ever going to interact with the people who set off +/- 10min of you on normal bikes.
Nah, I just don’t like pricks on Motorbikes knackering trails built specifically for MTBs, causing conflict with walkers and probably contributing to people’s general dislike of bikes… So **** em, I hope their toys get confiscated.
+1 and well expressed.
People take their kids on those trails (and many others where no doubt these ass-hats will start appearing).
It's clearly a motor vehicle and wants using, insuring and licensing as such. This isn't about "cheeky" trails it is primarily about the potential to do serious damage to humans with a higher speed, higher mass vehicle. The trail damage is a pisser but it's secondary to the other human issues imo.
Had someone go past me on my walk in area that is too busy to ride my bike on Saturday afternoon.
You could follow where he had been as it looked like he had skidded after every corner but it's where he had put the power down.
So if they went 15.5mph max and where fitted with MTB parts would you lot think differently? Personally I’m for them if they aren’t crazy fast. Red socks don’t like us anyway this won’t change anything.
You could follow where he had been as it looked like he had skidded after every corner but it’s where he had put the power down.
Guy on the gate at chicksands said similar about ebikes, not sure I really see the problem as once you’ve dug a trail/footpath/bridleway you’ve caused damage.
Are they actually usable in the same way an MX bike is or are they to heavy?
So if they went 15.5mph max and where fitted with MTB parts would you lot think differently? Personally I’m for them if they aren’t crazy fast. Red socks don’t like us anyway this won’t change anything.
So if they were something completely different? It's 12x the power, 3x the speed, 3x the weight (and proportionally chunkier tyres).
It's not an "e-bike" (and I'm not a massive fan of those at trail centres to begin with).
Guy on the gate at chicksands said similar about ebikes, not sure I really see the problem as once you’ve dug a trail/footpath/bridleway you’ve caused damage.
Because the whole purpose of digging a trail* rather than just riding over the dirt is the effort you put in is paid back in it not becoming an erroded mess.
*as opposed to features.
Nah, I just don’t like pricks on Motorbikes knackering trails built specifically for MTBs, causing conflict with walkers and probably contributing to people’s general dislike of bikes… So **** em, I hope their toys get confiscated.
This...
Guy on the gate at chicksands said similar about ebikes
Ebikes ain't blowing out corners. That'll be the berm schralp.
So if they went 15.5mph max and where fitted with MTB parts would you lot think differently?
Then they’d be an eMTB with 250w of power rather than eMX with 7000w & a top speed of 50mph.
It’s not the same thing.
Are they actually usable in the same way an MX bike is or are they to heavy?
They’re a lot lighter than a motocross or enduro bike but of course they don’t have the power, suspension, brakes or handling - I reckon that if you’ve ever ridden a decent off-road bike you’ll be pretty disappointed with one of these things.
Mind you, that guy in the video blathering on about his RM250 didn’t exactly look in peak competition shape either....
If I wanted something to razz around on illegal trails I’d buy myself a 280 Gas Gas TXT Pro or something decent like that - not one of these heaps of shit. At least it would be far more capable than I am now (or ever was, come to that).
As someone has already pointed out in this thread its worth subscribing to Delux or whatever he calls himself YT feed to see the general skirting around of rules etc
A few things I have noticed;
- Its fast on the straight and flat and also uphills where its not too technical.
- Its slower on the downhills at Swinley than an averagely ridden MTB.
- On jumps/tabletops its making obvious marks on landing (which is not good).
- It seems to break down a lot.
- Its bloody heavy and will do hell of a lot of damage if it hits someone on the trail at full whack.
- Delux rides it on the pavement when he has too rather than the road.
- The noise it makes is a bit er strange.
These things are not suitable for proper MTB trails.....
...and he hits 40mph+ on the road quite often if his display is mph. On knobblies with not very good brakes (looking at reviews).
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– Its slower on the downhills at Swinley than an averagely ridden MTB.
I suspect that's more down to opperator skill. It's never going to be as manouverable, but he does seem to make hard work of it.
I take back any last vertige of suport for him 🤣 he's one of those people that sees the big* table top on 15 and thinks "this would be a good place to stop"!
(3:50, the YouTube app doesn't let you link at a time).
*the camera flattens it, if you're not crawling along like him then you're hitting it very fast and the landing is very long!
To be a little bit less "pitch-fork" he does sound like a young kid, and we've all done dumb things as kids. He's probably no idea about access laws or what trails he should or shouldn't be riding*. Some-one needs to have a chat with him fo'shure, before he hurts some-one, or himself, or gets his collar felt, which if he keeps posting videos of himself riding around Swinley will probably happen sooner rather than later,
*Yep, it's no excuse I know, but we all have to start somewhere.
Man, they look like a bunch of ****ers riding where they shouldn't. One of those hassled me on a trail I don't think I'd be responsible for my actions.
Thing is, we get a lot of (illegally ridden) MX bikes over my local thicket and I'm not bothered about them whizzing around on the fields, but where they ride on the actual footpaths and bridleways, they dig gullys in the middle of the (nicely built by the council) paths. It wrecks them, makes massive puddles, and water runs down the gullies like a river. Only a matter of time before the Swinley trails are wrecked in a similar way.
That video posted by tinas is just embarrassing, why would you post that publicly?! 😆
I'm sure this is all justified by the users using the same "F" word as our ebiking chums. And as long as people are having their F, who are we to dislike them. The ****s. 😆
He clearly knows it’s illegal on the road (he mentions that to one of the guys he talks to on the video) and he also knows he shouldn’t be riding round Swinley on it. He’s also an appalling rider and seems to be sat down on it for most of the time.
No time for this sort of thing at all - especially if he’s hitting 50mph along an access road in Swinley where he doesn’t know where the mtb trails are - so someone (kids / families particularly) could pop out of one onto the fireroad not expecting quite a quiet e-motorbike tanking along at 50mph on it.
So if they went 15.5mph max and where fitted with MTB parts would you lot think differently?
Yeah..and if my auty had bollox she'd be my uncle...!!!
These electic MXers (well, the riders) look a right pain. THey're motorbikes, pure and simple. They are completely motorised (be that an electric motor, or IC motor), and should be classed as such.
It's the equivalent of boxing a Tesla in the same class as a pedal cart!
DrP
He does seem like a nice enough guy and is very polite and seemed courteous to other users (much more polite than many bikers I’ve met at trail centres and in the Alps, I can’t fault that, but it’s the wrong vehicle for the trails.
And you’re right it does sound strange, neither bike or moto but more like one of those battery powered Porsches that rich toddlers get for Xmas.
I was surprised to see how other riders seemed to react to him at Swinley especially on another one of his videos.
They seemed quite accepting of what he was doing and just took an interest in the bike. No one seemed to challenge him on what he was doing.
He does seem like a nice enough guy and is very polite and seemed courteous to other user
Yeah, where his fat mate purposely goes close to the woman and child after the cattle grid... Very polite and courteous.
Anyway, youtube now thinks I want to see more videos of these cockcarriers, so I'm going to watch loads of different stuff to get rid of them.
Good lord I've seen 8 yearolds on rigid 20inchers do R15 better than that. How much travel and what brakes do those surons have? Looks like MTB downhill brakes on 220 disks, and DH forks.
Does the bike suck, or does he?
He does seem like a nice enough guy
He does. Has 1.12 million subscribers to his other gaming channel, so that's his money-earner I suspect.
Not a motorbike.
Yeah, right. But only 15 seconds slower (6%) on a 4 min lap than a 250cc motorcross bike.
We have had one causing upset amongst the walkers at JMCP, Dunbar recently. I am getting twitchy about a backlash against the fat biking, especially with the rash of no cycling signs going up right now.
An electric car is a car. An electric motorbike that you don’t pedal is a motorbike.
He’s probably no idea about access laws or what trails he should or shouldn’t be riding*.
However he is busy deleting any comment he can that has links the law of the land, threads on the owners facebook club, or even just clear 'you are breaking both the law and rule No.1' comments. So he is actively avoiding taking responsibility.
I'll just leave this here:
They are motorbikes.
The Suron website sells them as electric motorbikes.
There isn't a question over this and so by law you cannot use them on bridleways. End of.
I could throw an insulting name in here but think most have this covered.
All these electric gubbins should by law say " not legal for use in public areas or roads" stamped on them and a big **** off sign in the shop that sells them.
One of those hassled me on a trail I don’t think I’d be responsible for my actions.
putting a strongly worded post on the internet? 😉
That TINAS vid is hilarious, just after the tabletop stop he ponders how people ride it on normal bikes it’s so rough! Swinley’s yellow brick road rough?!
In the original vid you can see that every time his mate twists the throttle on the flat it’s ripping up the fire road, and every tight corner it’s foot out which no doubt will kick out the back and roost the trail.
Looking at his insta account he’s 21 so old enough to know better, but clearly new to the ‘sport’ and pretty ignorant of the host of issues that blasting an eMX bike around public roads and heavily used open recreational space causes.
Suron market the bikes as having parts interchangeable with DH bikes. I think this helps promote the misguided idea amongst users that this makes it an ebike rather than eMX.
the brakes on that thing look woefully inadequate for it's weight and speed, I doubt you could make it pass a MSVA so could never be road legal.
the brakes on that thing look woefully inadequate for it’s weight and speed
looks like magura DH brakes, 203mm rotors listed on the site, not 220, on a tyre thats 15% smaller than a 29er, so better leverage on the wheel. Including the rider they are going to be about 15% to 20% heavier.
Ive never ridden an electric motorcycle, as the motor is direct drive to the wheel, will there be an aspect of engine braking to use as a kind of drag brake?
from MSVA
13. Assess the capability of the brake friction surfaces, without dismantling, to
dissipate energy sufficiently to maintain the brake performance under all
conditions, including long descents, without the occurrence of “brake fade”.Note. This assessment must take account of the vehicle’s weight, weight
distribution and speed capacity
No actual figures given. If a brake can do the Mega, I'd personally find it acceptable on one of these. (Subject to riding it legally and not being a ****, obvs.)