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So, riding home last night, stopped off at Cycle Surgery to pick up an order. All the way there my gears had been slipping, so when I'd picked up my order, I checked the chain and an outer plate had come off. Very doubtful it would get me the rest of the way home, so got out my trusty (it was a present from Mummy years ago and I've never used it!) multi tool to remove a couple of links.. found that this crappy chain tool actually needed a 4mm allen key to operate it, so popped back in the shop and asked if they had one. Guy rummages through a little tin under the counter (they have a workshop there), nope only 5mm and some valve caps.
So I have to buy a multi-tool to fix my chain!
I guess I was lucky to be at a bike shop where I could buy the tool, but I'm sure if I'd been working there I would've let a customer borrow a single little allen key for a couple of minutes... or would that be expecting too much?
What multi-tool? As I know the topeak hexus has the allen bit built into the tyre lever.
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I would be very surprised at a multi-tool with a chain breaker, that didn't have a similar feature.
I guess the free loan of tools to people to fix their own bikes ain't a great business model?
That and the tools get screwed up or not returned!
[i]I guess the free loan of tools to people to fix their own bikes ain't a great business model?[/i]
I'd just spent £50 in the damn shop!
Jamie... that's it! the allen keys are missing from the tool cos I have others in my bag! Duh! 😳
[i]That and the tools get screwed up or not returned![/i]
Yeah, of course - I'm right outside the door. And you can 'screw up' a single allen key?
I guess the free loan of tools to people to fix their own bikes ain't a great business model?
If a shop wouldn't lend me a simple, cheap tool for a couple of minutes so that I could get hme, i'd never shop there for anything. So I'd say the opposite rrealy. There's something caled custoemr service, which is rather important in any business model.
@stoffel: Exactly 🙂
It's gash, especially as you were a paying customer.
I'd have loaned you a tool (if they've got a workshop, they'll have 4 mm ak's ffs), or probably done it for you if I had a spare 5 minutes.
They said they didn't have one (Surprising as that is)? Or did I read that wrong.
Did you not follow up by asking to borrow their chain tool?
[i]They said they didn't have one [/i]
He only looked in a little tin box of crap under the counter. too much effort to look in the workshop, I suppose.
Was in a hurry by then so just bought the tool.. it's a Park one if anyone wants it. I've got loads of the bloody things!
I've told you before Dezzy Baby. You need to replace that threadbare, almost translucent lycra. He clearly wanted you away from his shop as quickly as possible, as you were scaring off the other customers, and subliminally reminding him he was having bangers and mash for his tea 😉
should have just bought a 4mm allen key 🙂
We got a puncture on our push chair once. £8 for a tube in a local bike shop and he got arsey when I asked if I could borrow a tyre lever and a pump to change the tube in the shop with the baby asleep in the push chair. I've not been back.
Other customers?? There was one bloke asking if he needed a long cage or medium cage mech on the front.
Sorry but you are a victim of the dis-honest. Yes, people do pinch loan tools, and yes, some can even knacker a simple tool just by holding it.
Blanket policy of not lending out workshop tools would seem a bit harsh in this case but best go prepared, no point in carrying a tool that you can't use.
[i]Was in a hurry by then so just bought the tool.. it's a Park one if anyone wants it. I've got loads of the bloody things! [/i]
Maybe handy if you carried one of them with you?
nope only 5mm and some valve caps.
You should have asked to borrow the welding equipment kept under the counter then you could have gone all A-Team and made a new bike out of the contents of the tin.
[i]Maybe handy if you carried one of them with you?[/i]
F me! A genius!
Who normally owns the workshop tools in a bikeshop? Are they the mechanics, or the shops?
I think have similar multi tool for the chain splitter part, as you say needs external 4mm AK - mine's Ritchey Compact Pocket Rescue - CPR-5 - [img] 
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A couple of months ago I popped into Imperial Cycles in west London to ask whether they could undo the main bolt in the Ultra Torque cranks as I needed to replace the bearings. George lent me a nice big Park workshop allen key for me to do it at home. I try and support them whenever I can, and they're next door but one to a great ice cream shop.
I have had a shop refuse to lend me a chain breaker, and another shop when asked if I could borrow an allen key, gave me one and said don't bother bringing it back. I know which one I'd go back to.
vinnyeh - Member
Who normally owns the workshop tools in a bikeshop? Are they the mechanics, or the shops?
It could be either for hand tools, should be provided at a chain store.
Trouble is, if you lend out tools and they go for a walk, how do the mechanics do their job?
Coming from an engineering background, go in someone else's toolbox without asking is equivalent to shagging their girlfriend.
[quote=pondo ]another shop when asked if I could borrow an allen key, gave me one and said don't bother bringing it back.
Was the shop Cycle Surgery and the size 4mm??
@pondo That's because it was cursed!
Dang - that explains the uncanny run of outrageous bad luck I've suffered from ever since. 🙁
For some reason or another I couldn't tighten the headset on my bike recently and managed to snap the star nut. Took it to a local shop (pedals in edinburgh near toll cross) and asked them to fit one and adjust it for me as I needed to use it that afternoon.
Not only did the chap take time out from another job to fit it, but he also provided a starnut and spacers and didn't charge me a thing. Said it was Karma...which in this case it will be given I'll be dropping off a four pack of beers this afternoon, plus will recommend them to mates in future.
Was the shop Cycle Surgery and the size 4mm??
T'was a 4 milly but a different shop - torn between naming them so they get praise and not naming them so they don't have a queue of people asking for free allen keys. 🙂
We used to have the 'loaner' allen key set for this kind of thing, cheap £1.99 set (several actually, as well as loaner spanners and other stuff) that got leant out without any worry if they got mashed or lost.
Minimal cost to us and all the kudos of being able to help when needed and without inconveniencing the workshop.
i can understand shops not wanting to lend out expensive tools, but a 4mm ak, for fs, how petty is that, take your business elsewhere and f-em, its gonna cost them more than a 4mm ak in the long run, without good customer service what use is a local bike shop anyway?
Yeah, I might return the stuff I bought for a refund. Just to make a poin, like #cutoffnosetospiteface
[i]Trouble is, if you lend out tools and they go for a walk, how do the mechanics do their job?[/i]
They've got a wall full of pissing multi-tools!
Put together even a handful of self assembly furniture and you'll have a set of useful enough AKs. As above, no skin off the shops nose to have hand me downs like that for general use really..
DezB - Member
Yeah, I might return the stuff I bought for a refund. Just to make a poin, like #cutoffnosetospiteface'Trouble is, if you lend out tools and they go for a walk, how do the mechanics do their job?'
They've got a wall full of pissing multi-tools!
Fair enough and I don't blame you.
The only reason they have a wall full is because they don't lend them out, obviously. 🙄
dont blame you op, theres certain local bike shops ive stopped using due to similar customer service issues, its their loss, theres always another shop to buy stuff from and get better service from.
Go to Halfords instead. I bought a new emergency chain after three side plates disintegrated and they kindly lent me the tool to fit it in the shop.
The Hexus chain tool is excellent. I just didn't have it with me on the fixed wheel commuter.
I know a branch of the same shop wouldn't lend tools to customers for "insurance" reasons.
btw, it would take the salesman longer to reverse the transaction, and give you your money back, than it would of taken him to go in the workshop and look for a 4mm ak, which ever way you look at it, its just piss poor customer service, especially having just spent £50 in the shop, you have a lot more patience than me op, that £50 would already be winging its way back into my account by now.
if you have just spent £50 and you need a tool to borrow and they do not lend then it is a terrible business model IMHO
PS return the multi tool claiming it does not have the correct spanner you need 😉
No tool borrowed but just pricematched a chain and cassette from £83 down to £37 at c.s.
Normally go out of my way to go to my LBS but as it's closer c.s. does have it's uses on a rainy day.
I can appreciate a not lending tools policy.
But if they weren't busy I would have been nice for him to say
"bring it here and I'll pop that on for you in the workshop".
5min of his time today, many pounds in his pocket in the future.
I know a branch of the same shop wouldn't lend tools to customers for "insurance" reasons.
I'd be more offended by such blatant lying than just simple refusla to lend mr the tool.
DezB; I would return to that shop. to try on clothes/shoes etc, then buy online. They dsrve it for not appreciating why customer service is important.
Interesting one. As a bike shop worker, I can tell you tools DO get lost and damaged, I do tend to let folk use them though.
It can get frustrating when someone wants to fix their bike in the shop, the only free space is generally the most used, by the counter, the customer/borrower may then have no idea what he's doing, ask for help/force you to help cos his bike is in bits on your floor.
But if they weren't busy I would have been nice for him to say
"bring it here and I'll pop that on for you in the workshop".
Dream on.
More like "you worked on my bike for free last time, why charge me now?"
What do you do tell us how much you like doing for free?
Do you go into a restuarant asking how to cook their meals? Etc...
Do you go into a restuarant asking how to cook their meals? Etc...
If you're looking for a suitable analogy, then it would be like going inot a restuarant and asking for a glass of water. They've still had to pay for the lgass, but it ewould be extremely mean spirited of them to refuse you.
The guy in halfords told me that it was policy not to lend out tools when I wanted a cable cutter after I bought a new gear cable but he would look the other way if I helped myself
+1 for Imperial Cycles built me a nice set of wheels and posted em up to Scotland for me inhume for ews and icycles in inners were kind enough to receive them for me
You probably paid him with the wrong kind of biscuits, try some bourbom creams next time maybe.
we lend out tools, pump etc, but one occasion I was finishing a custom build and a customer asked to borrow the chain tool, after a couple of minuted he came inside moaning that the tool is rubbish as the pin had broken in the tool, i was a bit put out but put a spare in and advised that its what we use in the workshop and is of the best quality, also to make sure he put the chain in the tool properly, I left him too it and started again on the bike, so he comes in again with a broken pin and tells me that he will go elsewhere as my tools are rubbish.
I was then left with no spare pins and had to put a chain on a customers bike, at which point I had to resort to taking a new tool off the shelf and using it, not a massive loss but so frustrating and just ridiculous attitude to what a LBS should be doing for people in the name of customer service.
like i said we still lend tools but now and again some toss pot will take a bit more of your faith in humanity away.
The realities of retail. There's talk in the thread of it being a 'terrible business model'. Really? I'm not sure he guy who owns Cycle Surgery would have behaved the same way.
This is just one member of staff who just couldn't be arsed. One member of staff who didn't think of the consequences and one member of staff who will probably never think of the consequences no matter how many times you tell him. He might not be there for much longer, before moving on to his next job paying around minimum wage. There are some excellent people in LBSs earning proper money and there are some who will never get past just being order takers...
I was in Halfords the other day ordering a headset press. Guy walks in complaining the new bike he picked up has a chain that skips when he pedals backwards. One guy spends two minutes telling him that it's normal, all bikes do that until a second team member walks up and makes a meal of it before telling him to bring it in as "he's never heard of that happening before".
Getting good staff is bloody hard. Training poor staff is nearly impossible.
Assuming you had the spare links/pins and the bike wasn't caked in dog eggs, given you'd just spent £50 I'd have hoped the lad would have grabbed a chain tool and done it for you. If I had a LBS I wouldn't lend the tool.
It's a tricky one - I've lent tools and had them come back broken or not at all. So I'm afraid I make a judgement when people ask, and sometimes just say no.
I was recently building a replacement for my stolen mtb. Thought I had purchased everything and it was only when I was starting the build that I realised I had forgotten to order rotor screws (they are usually just the parts I would transfer from bike to bike until some scroat nicks one, so I'd forgotten them). Popped into my local bike shop (Specialized) where I am a regular customer and know many of the staff. Asked one of the lads if they sold them, he said no, but would get me some free from the back - how many did I need? Like a donut, I just asked for 6.
It was only when I got home I remembered I needed 6 for each end, so the next morning I popped back down, explained to some young lad on the shop floor the situation and asked if I could be cheeky and get another 6? He went and asked another fella, who disappeared out the back, put 6 bolts in a bag and then told me they would be £4.99. £4.99 for 6 little screws! I exclaimed surprise but that was the price he explained as he rang in a miscellaneous sale for £4.99. Knowing it was either that or not ride my new bike for the weekend, I just paid it, attached the rotor and rode.
Its a little thing, but they are now doing the free servicing on the two bike I had bought off them in the month running up to this incident, and I won't be purchasing much from them in the future.
I'm confused. You're upset because you ultimately paid £4.99 for 12 bolts, when you should have paid £10?
How very dare them give you something for free, no wonder you're not going back.
As for the OP sounds like the guy at the till couldn't be arsed to look.
Bolts - yes, I usually give them out for free because I scavenge loads. But it's my business so I can do as I like - an employee doesn't have that freedom, and the shop might have a minimum charge for stuff.
when i worked in the shop - the only person that touched my tools was me - they were my tools , they were how i made my money , i have spent time and money making sure i have good quality tools to do the job.
i dont lend tools to strangers.
Id do odd jobs for people to get them out a bind yes - but id do it - if i dont have time because im up to my eyes in work then thats tough shit. we always had a selection of tools available to buy in the shop if its really that important.
Got burnt too many times in the early days - broken/not returned/misused.
fool me once , shame on you - fool me twice shame on me.
I only needed a 4mm Allen key. You get them free with Tesco's furniture.
Why do people expect bike shops to lend out tools?
What kind of response do you think you'd get if your car broke and you asked a garage to lend you tools???
You get them free with Tesco's furniture.
Next time you know where to go then.
I asked my LBS if they could fit a headset for me. Their response? "Sorry, we're fully booked for 3 weeks, but you can borrow the headset press if you like". Similar story when I needed my steerer shortened: "Really busy but if you just bring the forks in I'll do it while you wait"
Top guys!
I think bike shops are our own worst enemies sometimes - bike shops are the few shops* which are still really personal, often single shops run by the boss with a few assistants, who all work there because they like bikes. We're personal, often more like clubhouses than professional retail outlets.
That means people sometimes get offended when we actually have to make a profit, charge for small things or not lend stuff out - that's the kind of thing businesses do, not clubs.
You wouldn't dream of asking B&Q for a couple of free bolts, or asking the Kwik Fit to lend you a spanner, but that's because they're big companies - they're expected to be impersonal.
*Second-hand bookshops, maybe, or old record stores, but they're dieing out.
I only needed a 4mm Allen key. You get them free with Tesco's furniture.
How many bike shops are fitted out with Tesco furniture?
Having worked/helped out in a few LBS,I can say from experience I/they would always help anyone unless abusive/downright rude ("we're busy try next bike shop?"),you generally just hand over standard quality tool or crappy cheapo bike pump (roadies never carry!)and let 'em get on with it. Often you would do the task yourself and glace in the direction of a charity collection box!. Advice if you need advice/repair in a LBS take a nice packet of biccies!. Being nice usually gets nice back!. 🙂
"we're busy try next bike shop?"
When I was the only bike shop in a big suburb of Glasgow, I felt morally obligated to help people out - now I'm in the city with a normal bike shop 6 doors down I can just tell people to go try them 😉
My LBS has a track pump on a long chain outside the shop for anyone to use.
I have borrowed a extra long socket extender bar from a halfords to secure my car battery when it was loose.
I think it was poor especially as you were a paying customer not someone who had just walked in of the street.
I do not use cycle surgery after them refusing to even look at wheel with a seized bearing I bought in for servicing unless I bought in the entire bike and left it with them, then went to another shop who had the job done in twenty minutes no problem.
I'm confused. You're upset because you ultimately paid £4.99 for 12 bolts, when you should have paid £10?
You think £4.99 is the going rate for 6 rotor bolts? You think that is what price they are in their system (they are not actually even in their system - the first member of staff clarified that for me).
Its all down to attitude and customer service - "I'm sorry, but we can't afford to give you another 6 free, how about a couple of quid, or you purchase some lube or something and we will throw them in?".
From all the stories about people not buying in shops anymore - trying stuff on then heading out on the internet etc, decent customer service, and not being overly picky goes a long way. Especially to customers who have spent a couple of grand in your shop within the last month!
How very dare them give you something for free, no wonder you're not going back.
If you look over there, far, far away in the distance, you might be able to see my point. You are miles away from it.
I hope some of the berks on this thread are in need at some time and don't get assistance. I hope they are not conveniently at a bike shop and get stranded somewhere. It would only be what you deserve 😉
Whys thats then dezb - thats just being a prick.
If i see someone stranded with a puncture or broken chain and ill try and help if i have tools or offer a lift if im going the same direction.
Thats a bit different from a random unknown person asking me to give them my tools for free to do a job when there are various tools for the same job within 2 ft of where their standing for sale.
[i]Whys thats then dezb - thats just being a prick.
[/i]
Nail on the head mate. Exactly what their attitudes suggest they are.
*woosh*
What do you do for a day job..... Do you do it for free ,?
I hope some of the berks on this thread are in need at some time and don't get assistance. I hope they are not conveniently at a bike shop and get stranded somewhere. It would only be what you deserve
That seems to happen to people who don't carry the right tools for the job.
Like the guy I tried to help reseat his burped tyre at Swinley, he still stomped off without a word of thanks, cursing the fact that "no one carried CO2", him included.
There's in a LBS round the corner from me, but I don't like their attitude so I don't go there. I rather ride the opposite direction past a Cycle Surgery and an Evans to give my money to people who seem to give a sh*t.
You think £4.99 is the going rate for 6 rotor bolts?
Well, yes, here's some on CRC, rrp £5 discounted to £2.99
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/avid-disc-bolts-torq-head-threadlock/rp-prod20302
Far as I can see, you got lucky the first time with the free ones, then had to pay rrp for the 6 further ones...but you're still 'up' comparing the total you paid overall for 12 with what it would cost you on CRC.
Think you bring a bit precious over now saying you won't go back there. Ive bought gear cable, rotor bolts etc to get a build finish...sometimes I get freebies like ferrules thrown in, sometimes I pay rrp but I would never expect freebies, its my fault for being impatient and wanting a build finished
Err, yes, £4.99 for 6 rotor bolts sounds about right. These are the ones we stock, RRP is £3.99 for six:
http://www.fibrax.com/disc-pads-rotors/rotors/rotor-bolts-6
So you've paid £5 for 12 which sounds like a pretty good deal to me. What puzzles me is why you think they should repeatedly give you free stuff? If they were a bit busy would you volunteer an hour of your time to help stack the shelves?
They're owned by Snow and Rock and IMO as a company they're assholes and don't like this sort of publicity.
Don't be surprised if their legal department show up and attempt to get this thread shut this down.
[i]What do you do for a day job..... Do you do it for free ,?[/i]
So, in your mind, you have somehow made this question relevant to what the thread is about... talk about [i]*woosh*[/i] 😆
You think £4.99 is the going rate for 6 rotor bolts?
Shimano rotor bolts are £6.99
I'd have lent you a 4mm allen key though 🙂
Sorry your right the op was about a poorly prepared cyclist, Expecting a freebie, that the guy was going to give you but clearly his lend it bits box had been robbed of all 4 mm allen keys by other freebie expectant cyclists no doubt.
Shimano rotor bolts are £6.99I'd have lent you a 4mm allen key though
So you're the guy that ruins torx head bolts then?
😉
I've spent (like many, I'm not special) many tens of thousands of hard earned over the last 20 years in my LBS. I don't expect discount, but I'm happy to receive it when offered. They tend to give me a discount on everything I buy but I don't expect (and frankly feel a bit cheap) when they offer me discount on stuff under about £30 or £40.
They probably made about £1.60 on that £5 pack of rotor bolts. Forgetting about the free pack, how much do you think they should make on selling you a pack of bolts?
What's fair? Should they offer everything under a fiver free to all their good customers for example?
I wouldn't lend my tools out to anyone. If it was a little job I'd do it for you FOC if allowed.
theres some serious shit talked about on here, the op asked for a lend of a 4mm ak, the op didnt ask to rob the shop of their so called precious tools, 4mm ak wats the cost 50p, if a shop cant afford that to lend to a customer who has just blown £50 in their shop, then they dont deserve any customers,theres a common theme through all this, bikes mechs and their precious tools, ive been a bike mech and an engineering toolmaker by trade, i damn sure if we had a customer asking at our front door for a lend of a 4mm ak, and who had just spent money with our firm we would even hesitate,its just plain n simple shit customer service, and if i were the op, i would of told them to stuff their £50 worth of goods and made the guy give me my money back, which would of taken him longer than it would of to find a 4mm bloody ak, its shops like that, that make people shop on line, with out good customer services all you bike mechs with your precious tools would be out of a job, and im not talking about the people who expect a shop to lend them their whole tool boxes here, it was a 50p 4mm ak.
My Allen keys don't cost 50p - I only buy quality.
the op only wanted to borrow the ak for a ten minute job to get him home, he wasnt expecting the ak to last him a life time,besides that, i dont think it was even about the tools, the salesperson probably just couldnt be arsed to go and look in the workshop. i suppose if the salesperson actually owned the shop their attitude might have been different,when its not your business and your probably on minimum wage, you probably cant blame them.