In a stroke of genius, Richmond Council has decided to block the runup to the famous Teddington Lock Jumps. Although not my first post about the council, I feel like this complaint is more justified than my last one.
Even parks patrol couldn't tell me what the final solution was, they just seemed to be content with spending thousands of pounds of taxpayer money on something like this.
Pics:
Anyone local have any thoughts?
Hopefully the boys from the estate will have the angle grinders out this weekend and it will be down by next week...
Looks like there is space to add a wee double and have that rail as a 'feature'!
But in all seriousness, that looks like an absolute dick move on their part. Have they had any consultations with local riders?
EDIT: If it makes you feel any better, our local council just bulldozed ours flat one monday morning. Had been there years without issue previous to that
Yeah, in an age of rechargeable angle grinders I suspect that new feature won't last long.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, angle grinder or jump. No consultation obviously RC council just doesn't really give a shit.
Do they need to, is it a jump park or are they merely applying some inconvenience to some opportunistic cyclists?
It's a designated jump site, even recognised by the council. Been there quite a while and you'll be hard pressed to find someone local who doesn't know about it.
Ok thats not good then, it would seem a Parks officer who doesn't know how long a run up is needed has made a decision to slow the entry of bikes into the park.
I wonder, has there been an incident there e.g. someone's walked past that gap just as a rider comes through it? These things are usually reactionary.
It could be that someone has reported that there has been a cyclist that has hit a pedestrian using the runup, but I haven't heard anything about it.
It does seem like a knee jerk reaction to something.
That's your standard stop motox or (chavs on mopeds move). Has there been a complaint?
Just cut a new line from inbetween the bush.
There is no public complaint I know of, so could be a private one.
No issues with peds either, not really a clue why they have done it tbh but the end result is there and it's pretty annoying.
Where are you running up from? Surely it's just lost the width of the path? Could they build a roll in ramp/platform, and/or stick a few rollers in the run up to pump for speed?
Unless they were riding down that bit of single track, in which case it's obvious why it had to be done 🤷♂️
Yes pictures 1 and 2 are showing the barriers blocking the runup path. Some sort of ramp system could be possible. But the speed given by that straight allowed for people to clear the larger jumps.
Does the blocked path come out towards the lock/river, or is it towards the footpath at the side (leading from footbridge to Ham)?
If it's the latter I reckon it's to stop people coming out fast into pedestrians
Yeah, in an age of rechargeable angle grinders I suspect that new feature won’t last long.
Going equipped? could be 5 years
Just ask the local councillor why it was done. There will be reason even if you don't agree with it
Yep pretty clearly designed to keep riders off the footpath. I imagine after the previous run ins with trail builders the council arent very interested in their views. Id tread carefully or youll find the jumps flattened next. You also dont know who else has taken umbrage at the illegal building, nothing like a local nimby group stirring things up in the back ground.
Yes pictures 1 and 2 are showing the barriers blocking the runup path. Some sort of ramp system could be possible. But the speed given by that straight allowed for people to clear the larger jumps.
No, I meant are people using this track as the run up, and crossing the main path flat out and blind.
Because that would explain why they'd put the barrier in if so.
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Just ask the local councillor why it was done. There will be reason even if you don’t agree with it
I wouldn't waste your time on the councillor. In my experience - if they are from the party in power there will be some vague excuse not supported by any evidence, just hearsay, but never a mistake. If they are the party in opposition then its always a political move by the enemy and even if there might be a sensible reason its because the other side are bad.
I'd Freedom of Information request them. "Please provide all correspondence, internal and external, regarding the decision to [xxxx]. In addition, please provide the risk assessment for the modification, the cost (and how the cost was assessed to be good value for money), and the minutes of meetings where the decision was approved."
Once you have that then you can go to the councillor, or the press - because now you know more than they do.
Not sure I'd go down the angle grinder route. Criminal damage will not enhance your future relationship with the council and will only go against you in the event of conflict further down the path.
I’ll admit I don’t know the spot, but if that’s a footpath on the other side of the barrier I can see how there might be a problem.
I know it’s not the guns-blazing response you may have wanted, and I’m as irked as any by public money being wasted but...
I’d Freedom of Information request them. “Please provide all correspondence, internal and external, regarding the decision to [xxxx]. In addition, please provide the risk assessment for the modification, the cost (and how the cost was assessed to be good value for money), and the minutes of meetings where the decision was approved.”
This! £10 well spent. (Is it still £10? It seems to have been £10 for years!)
Not sure I’d go down the angle grinder route. Criminal damage will not enhance your future relationship with the council and will only go against you in the event of conflict further down the path.
And this too. Next will be a bulldozer. Which would be worse.
Rolling eyes at the waste of money, then hoping they get cut down and need replacing at further cost isn’t really helping. Go round through the bushes. Or find out if there’s any better solution.
jump seems pretty handy for the bus stop?
Yes when I spoke to the people who have really devoted time they said that they are worried about the potential for the whole thing to be taken down if the angle grinders are raised. So that idea is out of the window.
In terms of Councillors I was looking at calling/emailing some, I don't know who though. There seems to be so many of them. Just the thought of them all collectivley agreeing to such a stupid descision makes me angry.
Diagram of the jumps:
Red is run in, Blue is the barriers, Path on the right is the one they don't want people cycling on.
https://goo.gl/maps/jgmAvQQyqzahEF2J8
Bit hard to tell from the pic, but is the barrier up against the path, or half way through the run up?
Edit: Cross posted. That's just stupid, it can only have been done in a misguided attempt to reduce risks (thereby making the jumps more dangerous as you can't get enough speed)
FOI is a good start.
Get your local councillor on board first - https://www.richmond.gov.uk/council/councillors
Might be worth ringing the sport dev officer
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/contacting_the_council/council_contact_numbers
halfway through the runup which makes even less sense considering they could have put it further up towards the path.
Email for parks patrol if anyone is interested is:
richmondsports@continental-landscapes.co.uk
Those barriers are a definite issue for the jumps (lack of a suitable bike means I've not been on them for a while, but even the middle set needed a good crank in to clear them). The footpath is a good way back from where they've installed the barriers, the jumps are in a spot where there is not much in the way of pedestrian traffic going through them as there are so many other paths. There is no specific runout being blocked (or is even a risk as the jumps run in a loop).
The council have good form on brainfart cycle management. Fantastic example is the frankly bonkers cycle lane (where there was no need for one) they've installed on Hampton Court road which now means cyclists have to navigate a channel between the pavement and a row of parking/parked cars (they have effectively shifted the parking 2m into the road and the put a cycle lane between that and the pavement), a bus stop with zebra crossing and then being spat back out into traffic on a bend (who due to the row of parked cars hiding the cycle lane cannot see the cyclists).
An ebike would shorten the run up requirement!
No good for DJ though!
I have spoken to two councillors and they didn't seem to know about the issue. Hopefully something will accelerate soon as I'm in the process of building up a DJ for summer.
I doubt it's top of the list of issues they're thinking of. Your problem is that you're using a footpath other people use as part of your run in/off, so rather than just saying it's not busy (in your opinion) come up with an alternative so you can guarantee you won't interfere/hit anyone on the footpath. Building another run up seems the easiest.
Is Hampton Court Road part of Richmond or Kingston. Don't conflate issues. Never helps
I used to live near there but didn't know it existed. The bread pudding at Rowleys on ham parade is still brilliant, as are the cheese sticks.
If I am ever in the area I stay at the lensbury opposite and cycle along the tow path to shepperton, weybridge if time allows, once went to Guildford on the wey but got the train back.
Sorry nothing to add about the barriers.
Looking at the pictures of the barrier and the satellite image I'd lay good money that's about vehicle access. Looks like exactly the sort of thing I'd expect to see being put in where there's been issues or fear of issues with the appearance of caravans.
(word of warning as well. The run in which is now blocked may not be within the curtailment of the designated site, if you flag it as "necessary" you might find they come and remove those features for which it is "necessary" in order to keep usage of the site within its agreed limits.
The reality is, if the jumps require you to be using land not part of the jump site, the jumps are too big for the site and need to be either moved to give a better run up or reduced so they don't need one. You absolutely want to keep the council onside here rather than giving them pause to find reason for the barriers not being a problem - the best solution is possibly just pedal harder)
Official reply:
<i>Following concerns raised by local residents, Richmond Council has installed barriers to remove any risk of a collision between cyclists using the BMX area and pedestrians and other users of the footpath. The size of the BMX area remains the same.</i>
Can someone who knows the place illustrate where the footpaths and barriers are? The pic above by @belgianwaffle1 makes it look like the barriers are in the woods between the footpath and the track - or is there another footpath in the woods?
Ok here is a better picture for @stwhannah and others:
Refering to my original pics at the start of the thread:
Pictures 1 and 2 are of the barriers in black. These come accross the run in (in red).
Picture 3 is of the green barriers, not such an issue as doesn't block a run in but still annoying.
Blue line is the footpath that the council doesn't want people cycling on. The biggest issue is where the black barriers have been put. They are too far into the site when they could be pushed outwards to just before the blue and red lines intersect.
Out of interest @stwhannah who did you contact? Thanks.
Is Hampton Court Road part of Richmond or Kingston. Don’t conflate issues. Never helps
Within boundary of LBRUT, I had checked before posting.
Just using it as an example of other local cycle related planning which is intended to solve an (non) issue but is not thought through properly before implementation.
@belgianwaffle1 thanks. I tried parks and press contacts. Parks said they'd get back to me in 20 days (as per FOI requests) but the media folks are more immediate. Watch this space!
yes I would imagine that press would be quick to respond. Happy to provide more details if need be.
We'll let you know if we get any updates: https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/local-riders-have-beef-with-council-over-chopped-ham-lands-trail/
Thanks @belgianwaffle1
Wow thanks hadn't noticed that. Great to see an article about something so close to home.
Thank you!
@belgianwaffle1 We've had an update from the Council, added to the story. Seems there's a meeting, but so far no info on how to go to it or contact anyone going!
Funny, that's exactly the same response I got for my email. And I've asked the same questions as you but no response as of yet. I wil get into contact with the councillor and see if he knows any details.
Interesting using the 'near miss' argument which on roads and cars would lead to no changes and no changes unless there was an actual incident.
.
That was the gist of a lot of replies that I got on my twitter post. The council has been very lackluster in terms of cycle infrastructure and LTNs but happy to authorize silly descisions like these.
Hmm… I asked: ‘Please can you provide details of the meeting and how interested parties can attend or get in touch with those going?’
the response (from Parks):
‘We will update you after the meeting as we already have some reps from BMX users attending.’
I’ve asked again (to the Press people too):
‘A number of our readers are keen to provide their views to those attending so that a broad representation of views can be heard. Who are the relevant contacts, please?‘
I’d love to hear who the BMX users they’ve got going are.
Another update! Email just in! Meeting is at 10am today!!!
@belgianwaffle1 and anyone else, email your polite thoughts to
Dear Hannah,
I am not sure if you are aware, but a meeting has been scheduled for today, at 10am, to discuss the BMX area and safety of those using the nearby path(s). Please feel free to attend if you are available.
The Parks Team hope that a resolution can be identified, but, any compromise cannot undermine the safety of those using the nearby paths as the Parks Teams sole priority is to ensure that all of our parks and opens spaces are safe and welcoming for all to use.
If you cannot attend todays meeting, then please do not hesitate to contact me and I will try my best to answer any queries you may have.
On behalf of the Parks Team, please may I take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in this matter.
Kind regards,
Matt
Richmond council confirms there was no equalities impact assessment done:
Following an FOI
@belgianwaffle1 that key info was missing! I've just asked for you. 'Open Democracy' at its finest 🙂
Seems to be something Richmond council are good at doing. missing out crucial details.
Although on second thoughts it could be something closed, maybe he is assuming that if you know about the meeting you are someone who has recieved an invite.
So let me get this right - because of a 'near miss', reported by another user of the space but accepted without corroboration, results in council spending a chunk of money without a suitable equalities impact assessment, or risk assessment actually being carried out, on an area of land with long history of positively engaging young people and adults in physical activity and engagement with nature, to block usage?
*slow handclap for council*
I vote for someone reporting 'having a near miss' in the council car park and requesting new barriers to keep councillors from parking too close to their building....
A near miss.?
How many near misses are there for those using the jumps on their way there by car drivers, potentially caused by shitty infrastructure...?
Well done stw Hannah.... If stw were to take up the cause for riders on these sort of bullshit decisions then I would happily pay double for the membership despite the fact I don't benefit from it (ironic given that I've currently not got membership.... Why not DB my account?).
This is an unapproved/unofficial track, isn't it? They've tolerated it rather than sanction it? Is this not a warning shot? The jumps are getting too big/the speeds too high, they are getting nervous which is why they've put the barrier where it is. The 'other park users' is a convenient cover. They presumably always have the nuclear option of bulldozing it. I'd seriously think about putting your energy into getting the lads out with shovels to move the jumps to a better spot in the existing track.
Some success, I think. Maybe in future they’ll consult before they ac https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/local-riders-have-beef-with-council-over-chopped-ham-lands-trail/
Nice one.
Nice one.
@Belgianwaffle1 - I can get you as many trees as you like for planting, should riders want to be seen as proactive.
Thanks for your offer. I will speak to the riders and see if they would be interested and I'll PM you.
Great outcome. Just been reading through this and being in local government (not here I hasten to add), makes me a little bit ashamed of the evident corners cut here.
Great idea to offer up trees for planting too. You could even offer to crowdfund some picnic benches or something nearby to kill the local grouches who complained originally with kindness. A plaque on them “donated by friends of” always works well.
