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I bought this (S-Works Enduro) frame from a local shop. I had no intentions of spending S-Works money on a frame but it had been sitting in the shop for a long time so I got a good deal on it, built up with budget bits in the shop.
I picked it up in May. I had a knee injury so it only got a couple of rides around that time.
I started riding it again in the middle of last month. AKA it's not been ridden much.
However, it appears every time the rear end has compressed, the brake cable has rubbed the frame. I just noticed this today, and as you can see, it's bloody deep, almost through the carbon. (click the link for a clearer photo)
What do I do STW? Do I have any leg to stand on taking it back to the shop and demanding a new rear triangle?
I'm no expert, but some epoxy & it'll be alright ? Or prob better, get a quote for a professional repair,.
Either way I'd see what the shop says
I don't know if that's a trick of the light but that looks more like alloy than carbon . If you built it up yourself then you have no chance , if the shop built it up then it might be worth having a word with them . The current Enduro has had the cable routing changed as that was a bit of a known issue . Worst case scenario a new rear triangle is not massively expensive , perhaps the shop or Spesh will help you towards one , however you tend to get whatever colour they have which may not match the front end . Alternatively just ride it , it will most likely be OK .
So you didn't apply frame protection to sensitive areas of the frame during the build?
Who built it up?
Also check the under side of the left hand chainstay and see if the hose is rubbing also.
What year is the frame many of them had a p-clip just in front on the brake to keep the hose in place
Impressive frame rub...!
I would try to repair it.
If the shop you bought the frame from built it up then I'd be having a relaxed but serious chat with them about it. Don't go in all guns blazing as any goodwill they have will soon evaporate!
If you built it up yourself, then you need to be having that chat in front of a mirror and suck it up.
I wouldn't panic too much, if the shop doesn't take it back and sort it then getting it repaired won't be hideously expensive, especially as its not gone all the way through so all the repairer has to do is add a few layers of cloth to reinforce it.
Realistically the shop could just say 'cables shift and get pulled through the guides, its just something you should keep an eye on' and they'd be right. Doesn't make them a good shop, but its correct! Obviously id be making it clear you would never darken their door again, but that threat obviously depends on how often you shop there!
tbh it really upsets me stuff like this. A frame of that quality (or anyone selling a frame) shouldn't rely on someone sticking a patch on a bit where it rubs. it should be designed out.
less than a year old id be giving it them back.
I had an issue with my Defy frame when the Giant designed mudguards for it actually cut right through bothe seat stays, holes either side big enough to put a pencil in! I'd bought the bike from the Giant store but they'd not got the guards in stock so I ordered them from an online supplier and fitted them myself. Once I'd discovered the problem I took it into the Giant store to get their thoughts on it. That was 11am on a Sunday and by 11am on the Monday they'd called to say Giant were shipping out a new frame and forks to them and they'd transfer everything over to it.
Slightly different to your situation but it does look like there is a design fault and certainly if they have made changes since as it's a known problem you'd hope they'd do the right thing and either repair or replace the rear triangle.
Is it as simple as designing out things like that ?
not all brakes have the same hose entry point so the hose will sit on the frame differently
on that enduro above could you rotate the banjo bolt and cable tie the hose to the seat stay ?
Another thought the must be loads and loads of enduros still in use that have not failed there from cable rub, so how much of a design flaw is it ?
Is it as simple as designing out things like that ?
not all brakes have the same hose entry point so the hose will sit on the frame differently
on that enduro above could you rotate the banjo bolt and cable tie the hose to the seat stay ?
Yes, it is. Put a cable guide at a suitable distance from the caliper that will restrain the hose. Cable tie round the frame isn't acceptable, on any bike. Cable routing is quite often and afterthought.
tbh it really upsets me stuff like this. A frame of that quality (or anyone selling a frame) shouldn’t rely on someone sticking a patch on a bit where it rubs. it should be designed out.
Are you being serious?
There are so many different places on a frame that could get rubbed by a brake hose/gear cable depending on how it is put together or the parts used it would be impossible to cover every possible combination, they would have to cover the whole frame!
tbh it really upsets me stuff like this. A frame of that quality (or anyone selling a frame) shouldn’t rely on someone sticking a patch on a bit where it rubs. it should be designed out.
Agreed, frankly it’s amazing to me that in 2018 we’re still effectively using a road bike solution for FS frames that makes this possible or indeed why were still using cable outers and hoses that do such a great impression of a file in little to no time.
Maybe I’m just old and grumpy, but we don’t go a few months without some new device or method which gives a small incremental gain in performance, but the boring practicalities of owning and using the things drags on and on.
Agreed, frankly it’s amazing to me that in 2018 we’re still effectively using a road bike solution for FS frames that makes this possible or indeed why were still using cable outers and hoses that do such a great impression of a file in little to no time.
Maybe I’m just old and grumpy, but we don’t go a few months without some new device or method which gives a small incremental gain in performance, but the boring practicalities of owning and using the things drags on and on.
Blame the magazines and the public.
Year 1) WE DEMAND INTERNAL CABLE ROUTING TO MAKE FRAMES CLUTTER FREE AND STOP CABLE RUB
Year 2) WE DEMAND EXTERNAL CABLE ROUTING TO MAKE FRAMES EASIER TO MAINTAIN
Year 3) WE DEMAND INTERNAL CABLE ROUTING TO MAKE FRAMES CLUTTER FREE AND STOP CABLE RUB
Year 4) WE DEMAND EXTERNAL CABLE ROUTING TO MAKE FRAMES EASIER TO MAINTAIN
......... And repeat.
Realistically the shop could just say ‘cables shift and get pulled through the guides, its just something you should keep an eye on’ and they’d be right.
This.
tbh it really upsets me stuff like this.
Not this.
MTB's get worn, cables rub, shit happens. If you don't keep an eye on your bike, then that's no one else's fault but yours. Sorry, but swallow it up mate.
Or we could just take a little responsibility for looking after an expensive piece of kit that gets ridden through grinding paste?
it’s amazing to me that in 2018 we’re still effectively using a road bike solution for FS frames that makes this possible or indeed why were still using cable outers and hoses that do such a great impression of a file in little to no time.
wireless gears (a road bike thing) are available now, if you wanted to develop a braking system that didn't require wires or hoses of any kind you could probably make a lot of money
As someone has already asked "who build it up", it's not really clear in your post OP. If it was the shop take it back and show them. If it was yourself it's down to you.
Anyone who has ridden with me will know that I'm not exactly scrupulous about cleaning my bikes but any sort of inspection routine would have picked this up before it developed and whilst washing is as good a time as any.
I am struggling to see how the hose could move that far in such close proximity to the brake?
Hoses really shouldn't move that far so close to the caliper unless the brake routing is completely wrong or the hose is so short that on any suspension compression it is pulling it ridiculously tight?
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">MTB’s get worn, cables rub, shit happens. If you don’t keep an eye on your bike, then that’s no one else’s fault but yours. Sorry, but swallow it up mate.
<span class="bbp-reply-post-date">Posted 33 minutes ago</span><span class="bbp-admin-links">REPLY | REPORT</span></div>
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Or we could just take a little responsibility for looking after an expensive piece of kit that gets ridden through grinding paste?
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Really,
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Bikes are many thousands these days. that could have easily been designed out with a cable guide or such.
why should we accept an inferior product that is billed as the best of the best?
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christ that quoting is crap
Am I right in thinking the hose disappears into a hold in the middle of the chainstay just out of shot?
If so, given the caliper has a banjo fitting on the outboard side, that hose should really have been routed round the outside of the 'seat stay' and then into the chain stay hole. As it's currently fitted then it's always being pulled tight across the seat stay.
Did you route it or the shop? That'll dictate if they're paying or you're paying for a new triangle IMO.
The shop built the bike up, I had no involvement
It hasn't been ridden many times and the weather has been marvelous, so no, it hasn't been washed often.
Yeh it's hard to believe the cable moves that much that near the caliper, but when the suspension compresses the BB (brake cable is routed just above the BB) moves down and the seatstays move forward. You're right CP, the brake cable goes into the chainstay just out of shot.
Just imagine the damage occuring unseen to all the internal cabled frames.
I'm in the blame whoever built it camp, either shop or you.
If the later, then as a rough guide I had a snapped swingarm 'seatstay' part repaired, very well, by a chap near Derby for £180. Guess your repair would be much less than that.
I hope I’ve not missed the answer above but what year is the frame?
as many have a p clip for the hose on seat stay
I had the same thing happen to my 2011 FSR XC frame. Specialized washed their hands off it saying I should have spotted it earlier and used some frame protection. Wrote the bike off after 9 months as they wouldn't sell me a replacement chainstay, not even at full cost. I was amazed at how thin the metal was at that point as I cut the frame up and had a look. Just over 1mm thick and the alloy was very soft. Very poor design and I'm amazed they continue with that cable route really. Mine had worn directly under the hose so it was hard to spot unless you lifted the hose out of the way, the metal either side looked fine but a bit scuffed. It was spotted by the shop I bought it from when I was having the pivot bearings replaced after 6 months and the mechanic did hint that it wasn't the first one he'd seen do it.
I've vowed to never buy a Specialized product since.
To answer questions above - the shop built it up.
It's a 2017 frame.
Just imagine the damage occuring unseen to all the internal cabled frames.
Very much a thing. My old commy meta v3 had virtually sawn through the fork steerer tube due to the internal cabling when I took it apart to change the headset.
Aren't the back ends of the Spesh frames alloy, rather than carbon? even the S-Works, I think.
nope
Some stuff on it here
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/new-specialized-enduro-problems-with-brake-hose-shock/
Very much a thing. My old commy meta v3 had virtually sawn through the fork steerer tube due to the internal cabling when I took it apart to change the headset.
Yes - fear these issues as well. Have frames with internal routing - but think that this internal routing is a bad fashion thing...
Hope so: not sooo much dirt in the frame and cable movement will be (hopefully) different from the POs cable (or?)
But clear: once sand is embedded in the soft cable shell - the cable acts like a saw.
Very much a thing. My old commy meta v3 had virtually sawn through the fork steerer tube due to the internal cabling when I took it apart to change the headset.
Remember that happening to a friends, we were a little surprised to see it when he'd taken his forks out!