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Hi,
I have 2 mtbs, an XL 2016 29er specialized stumpjumper and a new XL on one scandal.
I've always felt the stumpy was a bit short with a 50mm stem but it never really bothered me or held me back. (6ft3 tall)
Over winter I've just ridden the scandal which has a 35mm stem.
In April I started riding the stumpy again and now it feels really short. The scandal has a 480 reach compared to 460 on the stumpy.
Looking at newer bikes they all have longer reach between 480 (new stumpy) and 500 (orbea occam) on XL bikes.
My stumpy originally had a the command seat post with a slight layback. I replaced that with a brand x which is straight. Not sure how much difference that's made.
Apart from the reach, I really like the bike.
How have you got on moving to new bikes with longer reach? Is it worth it?
I could move to a newer stumpy but is it really worth it for 20mm? Any thoughts or offers of full suss xc frames appreciated.
I don't really read bike magazines so don't really have a clue on what I'd replace it with!
Thanks
Best thing to say would be find one you can demo, i'd be pretty certain you'd love it.
I now have a traumatic earworm.....
Best thing to say would be find one you can demo, i’d be pretty certain you’d love it.
I tested a orbea occam and I loved it but I was no quicker on it so I didn't see the point in changing when I liked my stumpy.
I don't know if it's because I've just changed bikes and come November when I start using the scandal again I'll find that too long?
Its a lot of money to spend to gain 20mm! 🤑💰💵💸💶😂
How have you got on moving to new bikes with longer reach? Is it worth it?
Doesn't work for me, I prefer shorter bikes.
You say you loved the Occam - did you have more fun in it then the Stumpy / feel more comfortable on it? Not just about speed with cycling unless you’re racing.
I’ve swapped bikes to a shorter travel / shorter reach / shorter chainstays - I imagine I’ll be slower on the fastest bits on uplift days but I’m already enjoying it more for the 90% of the rest of my riding as I feel more comfortable and confident in it and it’s more playful.
To add I’m 5’9 and was in. A bike with a 481mm reach and am now on 457mm reach.
Long bikes are definitely faster, provided you ride aggressively. Ie arms bent, weight the front wheel in turns etc. They’re a bit harder work for relaxed riding and can be a handful on tighter corners.
There’s no right or wrong here and it’s interesting because companies like Spesh have to cater for everyone so they can’t be too ‘out there’ with geo choices. Bird, Nicolai (Geometron) and probably others are leading the long bike game but it’s not for everyone. FYI a Bird Aeris in XL has a reach of 520mm.
How have you got on moving to new bikes with longer reach? Is it worth it?
The standard answer is, it depends.
There is absolutely a limit to what works for people. I’m 188cm/6’2” and whilst I like longer bikes on the whole, I know anything over 480mm ish reach starts to feel lethargic & unwieldy for me.
But then I look back and think of my ‘old’ bikes which were a ~440 reach for a large & they really were a bit dinky to ride.
I tried, and persevered with with really big & long bikes & in certain circumstances & certain conditions they were faster, but overall I am quicker on a slightly smaller, but in the more normal realms of progressive geometry, bike. The added bonus is they are more fun to ride too (for me).
I would say try one, give it an extended demo & see how you get on.
Is it worth trying some bars with a higher rise?
“I started riding the stumpy again and now it feels really short. The scandal has a 480 reach compared to 460 on the stumpy.”
The reason it feels REALLY short is not that the the Scandal is 20mm longer reach, it’s that the difference is bigger than that. The geometry figures are static. When you get onto a full-sus the back sags more than the front, so the reach gets a bit shorter - about 5-10mm. When you get onto a hardtail the front sags and the back doesn’t so the reach gets longer, by about 10-25mm. (Both depend on the travel and your preferred sag %).
So if you take your Stumpjumper to be 460mm reach static and the On-One 480mm static, giving a 20mm difference, the sagged numbers, how they feel when riding, will equate to at least a 35mm difference in reach (but you could add another 20mm to that if running long travel with lots of sag).
FYI the opposite happens to the stack height (it’s not like the bikes magically grow!)
@chiefgrooveguru that makes sense, not thought of that. Although the scandal is rigid forks.
“Although the scandal is rigid forks.”
What axle to crown length are they?
Firstly, excellent thread title.
Second, know the difference between reach and effective top tube length, and know how each will affect your position on the bike.
Thirdly, make sure you measure your bikes rather than using published geometry numbers for comparison. With your height I know that the effective top tube will be quite different from that published.
I've just replaced my 2016 camber with a 2020 occam, for similar reasons. I built up a long hardtail which is 40mm longer in reach than the camber, longer wheelbase, significantly slacker. While I still enjoyed riding the camber, it started to feel a bit short and less stable at higher speeds. The occam is slightly shorter than my hardtail but the wheelbase is slightly longer. Did I need a new bike? No. But I'd had a good three years on it and fancied a change and was able to get the occam through cycle to work so saved £1300 quid. I'm not sure I could have justified the change had I paid full price.
Hi,
Just a quick update.
I rolled my bars forward slightly which made the bike feel a bit better (longer) also not riding my other bike for a while has also made my stumpy feel better! 😁
I've just been reading this
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/reach-adjust-headset-my-thoughts/
And then found another older thread
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/has-anyone-used-a-reach-a-just-headset/
I never even thought about this and had to do some googling to understand how it works.
I know people might say get a longer stem but I don't want to go longer than 50mm.
Just wondering if +5mm will make any difference?
Has anyone else got any real world experience of these for gaining extra reach? Worth the money or just wasting money?
Thanks
I tested a orbea occam and I loved it but I was no quicker on it so I didn’t see the point in changing when I liked my stumpy.
A bike will not make you quicker.
A bike will not make you quicker.
Of course a bike can make you quicker or slower. Depends on the bike and the terrain!
A cheap heavy bike is slower than an expensive lightweight bike.
A badly fitted bike can make you slower and also cause injury!
Don't forget that extra speed a new bike feeling gives you!
Most bikes can’t fit reach adjust headsets without other aspects of the geometry being changed due to the external lower cup jacking up the head tube.
“A cheap heavy bike is slower than an expensive lightweight bike.”
Not necessarily, especially downhill. Cheap and heavy with good descending geometry will trump short, steep and light.