New eBike - Help me decide ?

Think a bit about which motor you want - personally I would only have a bosch motor due to its repairability

You might have trouble reaching the ground with 1500mm travel!

I was impressed with the Trek Fuel EXe, but went for Rail, as it suited what I wanted more.

Even at full beans, the Fuel's assistance felt pretty subtle, which may be a bonus for some - it's the most like a normal bike of the ones I have tried.

The new Rail is maybe in a category of its' own, it's basically a full power light ebike, there's a lot to like but the Shimano motor would put me off, I'd have the Wild f I was going Orbea

Never come across a Cube bike with good geometry, they seem determined to ruin everything they do with '90s geo,

The lightweight ones with the smaller batteries I couldnt count the number of thread ive seen about those owners now looking to fit an extender battery, so think carefully about the level of range you think appropriate.

Obviously lighter will handle differently, and from the reviews ive read that seems to be a good thing. And for general manhandling, as most full fats are over 50lbs

.

Motor - Probably better with Bosch, but these days its hard to know as the interest in Emtb's has put a lot of investment into the technology. I would though avoid Shimano.

Bosch on mine for the last three years(this oct) without issue(Scott Genius 920 Eride)

If I were to offer one piece of advice over anything else, that would be to buy it from a proper bike shop that you can drive to. Yes there are serious bargains for older models, but returning for issues might be pretty difficult. Not that issues are a given, but they do happen, sop something you can easily get to will save a lot of headaches.

Thanks honour - I still want to put some effort in, I enjoy the hard work bit.

Its mainly the assistance on road slog bits, or like last weekend doing 2,000ft of continual climbing, I am just not as fit as I once was, plus screwed hips.

Interesting re Cube, it looks good on paper with the weight/motor etc. But yes I had read that it wasnt best geo. Maybe thats discounted then !

I always have liked the Orbea since it came out, appeared to be the right mix of bike for me. Just done a bit of ringing, and some people have said they wont / cant touch the Shimano motor for repair, others have said they can changes bearings, gears etc but cant touch anything electrical.

so think carefully about the level of range you think appropriate.

I am thinking of the 630wh battery which is siginificantly larger than most of the similar  lights emtbs which are in the 300-400 wh range

I am 5ft 6″ (short arse) 85kg with pack

Classic E bike demographic 😁 so there should be plenty second hand

The new rise LT looks good, but would be a hard pass from me because of the shimano motor.

The heckler SL looks great, but the motor appears to be a bit hit and miss right now, but maybe its sorted?

The whyte elyte would probably be my pick at your budget.

The trek fuel exe is seriously versatile ,if you should need that versatility- can be run with any of the following combinations of battery size

- 0wh - rides like a slightly heavy normal bike
- 160wh - just the range extender , battery small enough to go on a plane
- 360wh - just the main battery
- 520wh - main battery + range extender
- 720wh - 2 x main battery (its small and light enough to go in a pack)
- 880wh - 2 x main + range extender - for a mega ride

I have a trek fuel exe - but I think the whyte elyte looks very tempting

Fellow shortarse here - I've got a Mondraker Crafty which I've mulleted and love, but couldn't really get on with it as a 29er. I think there's a lot to be said about MX wheel on an ebike, even if you're not a shralper because they tend to have long wheelbases and be quite cumbersome. If I was buying again now I'd probably get the Mondraker Dune which looks perfect (for me).

I took the new Specialised SL motor out for a spin around Cwmcarn and Risca trails and was absolutely blown away by how much like a normal bike it feels - more like a helping hand up the hills than anything else and you can pedal it easily with the motor off or above the limiter - something you can't really do with a full fat ebike for sure. The only problem is that everyone I know with a spesh ebike has issues with the motor/battery fairly frequently but at least they get sorted out much quicker than Shimano motors.

I've got a Kenevo sl, the missus has a levo sl. In terms of range there appears to be little difference so I don't really see much disadvantage to having gone bigger.

I'm 5'11" and (cough) heavier than you. Riding with it as support as opposed to trying to be a full fat e-bike I comfortably got 40km and 1400m ascent through the peaks on Saturday, still had 20% left in the battery so in theory would have been good for 50km and the thick end of 1800m ascent without a range extender.

Before I got mine I had a good look at the fuel exe, decision was made on a better deal on the specialised but the flexibility on battery that Julians mentions was a big draw for the trek. Whyte elyte 150 looks good at the moment, the rise is nice but personally I'd steer away from the Shimano motor.

Similar to Julian’s,
fazua not getting good reliability reviews, did badly on my shimano engined bike, my levo , which I really like, is now nearly 4 and only 1 failed motor connector cable so I’m keeping that, but wanted something lighter and removable battery,so the exe won, esp with its sale prices (and not having headset cabling), was a bit concerned about power/range so will see how that goes over summer, hopefully enough for me.

KSL for me too, so 170mm of travel

I'm half a foot taller but a lot lighter - went for a longer travel SL after demo-ing/hiring an original Rise, a full-fat Cube and then the KSL.

On the internal battery alone 5,000ft is easily attainable and I've done over 7,500ft (Golfie & Inners) with the extender.  Last night I went for a quick solo turbo bash, 1,500ft took a 1/3 of the battery & extender.

Riding with full-fat friends the only weakness is I just don't have to power up the steep climbs, but the only person I ride with who has a full-fat & an equivalent range has a 900w battery.

If you're spending £8k, the worthwhile putting some effort in to find the right one IMO.

Giant trance x. 400wh battery full power motor and 43lbs. Feels incredible to ride.comes with 200wh range exteneder.

I've an orbea wild with the Bosch motor, but if I were buying today I'd go with the new Rise LT - the  Shimano motor doesn't put me off as they are now repairable out of the 2yr warranty and seem just as likely to go pop as any other now & you have 2yrs of warranty between now and any potential repair anyway.

The only problem is that everyone I know with a spesh ebike has issues with the motor/battery fairly frequently

the Brose full fat has this rep, the SL’s  Mahle motor is supposedly very reliable. The Whyte ELyte 150‘s seems a new & interesting contender. Bumped into a guy riding one, as his trek rail was in for repairs,  & he was raving about the whyte, he seemed very impressed

@monkeybocjc at last someone not scared by the Shimano motor 👍 who's offering the repair out of warranty?

I've always found it funny the praise for Spesh swift warranty conveniently ignoring the breakdowns in the first place 😁

I was about to ask if you really wanted/needed an ebike as you seem to enjoy the effort in getting up the hills...then read your post about screwed hips and not being as fit as you once were.

I've about 13kg on you and definitely not fit...I'd be more than happy to get my lazy backside down to that kind of weight as it would be a very noticeable difference, however, that seems to be failing just now so I'm needing to change many things.

Anyway, for the slogs up the hills, you'll still get up them and as you like the hard work, then it will be more rewarding (just slower).

Not trying to talk you out of an ebike, but it will probably tweak your riding - hopefully for the better, but may just move it sideways.

From what I've read, Bosch seem to be the best motors due to repairability and it seems Specialized seem to have very dependable warranties for when things go pear-shaped (as it seems a standard 'feature' of an ebike that it will fail - which is a real shame).

I’ve got a gen 1 Kenevo SL but I’m a lazy fat knacker who can’t even do 5000ft on it at an uplift venue… 🤣

It’s a lovely bike to ride though.

I’ve also got an early Rail which is a tank and has been mostly demoted to commuting duties although I have brought it to the Peak District this week (which was a mistake really, having sampled the trails at Black Rocks)

Of the current crop of light e-bikes available I’d be choosing between the gen 2 KSL and the Whyte eLyte.

The Fazua motor is still too hit or miss for my liking and I wouldn’t have a Shimano.
If Trek did an e-Slash using the TQ motor that would be tempting.

There does also seem (perception is reality and all that, and purely anecodtally from scanning the emtb forums) to be a dramatic drop off in shimano issues with the introduction of the newer shimano motors.

Groups were awash with issues previsouly, but the reports really seem to have dried up.

Still major issues with repairability, but the error codes and failed motors seem vastly reduced

Shimano motor doesn’t put me off as they are now repairable out of the 2yr warranty an

Source?

( Please 😁)

I added an e-bike to my fleet last October. It's been a learning experience and not what I thought it was going to be.

At first I had a kenevo SL. Just after Christmas I replaced it with a full phat Santa Cruz Heckler.

IMO if you want to do traditional MTB rides but with assistance to save the legs, be less tired, etc... get any kind of SL.

With a full fat ebike you can still do that, and/or you can use it as a enabler and entirely change the way you can ride. Singletrack climbs become as fun as singletrack descents, for example. Who wouldn't want to increase the amount of enjoyable singletrack on a ride?

Of course, weight and styles/gates is a factor to xonsider, but IMO the pros out weigh the cons.

Singletrack climbs become as fun as singletrack descents,

They always have been. You've just been doing it wrong

If this is a non-snarky comment, are you able to elaborate?

I'm just putting forward the point of view that many people enjoy singletrack ascents as much as, or more, than the descents.  You don't need an eeb to do that.  Now I get that the bike industry has been pushing downhill performance for years to the detriment of along and up, but there are still loads of people and loads of Neebs that are really into singletrack ascents.

I certainly used to enjoy the climbs, especially the technical ones, as much as the descents. The challenging myself, the satisfaction of beating the climbs, even the exertion... and after a few ebike rides, I really found riding dissatisfying because that was gone. Then I took my nomal MTB out and [i]suffered[/i]. I realised why I'd got the ebike in the first place! I just wasn't enjoying un-assisted rides like I used to (before (borinnng) heart issues). So now I enjoy the riding for what it is and yes, climbs are bloody enjoyable, cos they don't kill me! Especially now my partner has an ebike and we can go on rides together. As she gets better and fitter, we'll be able to go MILES!

Anyway, enough of that, back to the OP's question... so he wants a lightweight, that can be lifted onto a roof rack? Well , that counts out my fab Moterra Neo, and the amazing Trek Rail my  (5'2" but comfortable on a Small framed 29er) partner has... So Rise, Moterra SL, the Spesh SL equivalent, Trek Fuel EXe (great bike, but not like a "proper" eMTB). But really, how can you spnuk 8 grand on a bike without trying them?!

Also, the Singletrack Charged reviews are good. I totally agreed with what they said about the Fuel and the Moterra, so worth reading some of those I reckon.

Thanks for the further responses.

Re going uphills. I have a road bike for fitness / maintaining fitness as best I can. However last week out in the Howgills it became very clear to me that I am never going to be fit enough again to enjoy big mtb climbs, so why not get some assistance that enables me to enjoy getting out in the big hills.

The example is this ride in the Howgills last week where a steep (yes I know its not technical)  long 1,500ft climb had me pushing and knackerd, too much so to extend the ride further.

Ive booked myself on to a Leisure Lakes Demo day, where hopefully many of the big contender bikes mentioned above will be available to ride, although possibly in the wrong size.

The example is this ride in the Howgills last week where a steep (yes I know its not technical)  long 1,500ft climb had me pushing and knackerd, too much so to extend the ride further.

Any of the bikes mentioned will enable that, it's really just a case of try them out and get the one you like the most - especially with your generous budget.

The example is this ride in the Howgills last week

That does look utterly hateful. Even I'd probably consider buying an eeb before doing that.

especially with your generous budget.

Dont worry I feel bad. The most I have ever spent on a bike is £1,500.  FFS back in the day I had nice Klein's/Cannondales which appeared much better vfm at the time.

This is going to be a Salary Sacrifice purchase. The total cost to Mrs FD will be approx £4,500 which I think is about what I think these bikes should cost rrp!

Does make you wonder if RRP is now aimed purely at high earning Salary Sacrifice people.

That does look utterly hateful. Even I’d probably consider buying an eeb before doing that.

I still quite enjoyed it though, just had nothing left in the tank (ish). I do enjoy stuff like Skiddaw or Cadair Idris

Does make you wonder if RRP is now aimed purely at high earning Salary Sacrifice people.

I suspect there's a big element of this.

Turbo Levo Carbon Comp here and it’s been bullet proof. I think the Brose is probably the most natural feeling power delivery of any of the motor manufacturers and I’ve ridden most.

Not a fan of the SL variant as it’s just a slightly lighter bike by putting a smaller less powerful motor and battery in. You can achieve the same (making it harder) through Mission Control app.

The aluminium Rise is currently available for £3300 with 540wHr battery and very useable build on C2W, so £1915 if high rate tax, might be worth a consideration if you want to save some dosh.

I don't think Shimano motors or Bosch motors are repairable. Bearings I think can be changed, but any electronic errors means you need a new motor. I have a Canyon with Bosch Smart System and its broken after 8 months / 650 miles (just as the weather was getting better!) Been without it for 1 month now. No eta for when it'll be fixed..  it's never been jetwashed or even hose piped.

My reccomendation would be to get a Specialized Levo (full fat) from a local dealer. They seem to have the fastest turnaround time for faults.

I have some thoughts on the matter purely because I’m in a similar situation. (Though I don’t enjoy climbs). The howgills route, plus the grassy slog up to Angle Tarn and the climb up on the walna scar circuit would be much more enjoyable with an ebike, I could even do two laps of HBR in the caingorms, one climb takes an hour!

Anything with a Fazua motor is apparently a bike shops worst nightmare so that rules out SC and Transition. Yes both have fantastic warranty but you want to avoid being without a bike for a month.

Shimano motor, I had a orbea rise and they rattle if you can put up with a constant rattle then you’re a better person than me. I like a silent bike that doesn’t make me think ‘somethings going to fall off’.

Whyte e-lyte, the spec id want to buy is £10k (comparable to the spec on my current bike) and it doesn’t seem that there are many reductions at least currently, the Specialized and trek can be found discounted.

The Trek Exe, I’ve been told for some reason they eat through their battery and you’re looking at around 20 miles from a battery, I can do that in my own legs so wouldn’t be any good for me. Although I’m only 64kgs and I ride in eco/lowest setting because like you I have road fitness from doing 70 miles a week.

I coughed up £95 at the weekend to try out the levo SL and managed 24 miles with 40% battery still left and then did two more runs in trail and got it down to 30% so it’s easily up to the job. The boost mode felt underwhelming and pretty similar to the middle setting but I didn’t check the tuning and it could be it wasn’t turned up. It was the comp level in the neutral position with 29” wheels because the 27.5 was broken. I left feeling very underwhelmed, the front end was crazy twitchy on the descents and the seat tube angle meant it climbed nose light as well and the spec was tosh, unresponsive fork and wooden rear shock.

Im not sure whether to just wait and see what else is coming or stump for something I may be disappointed with.

Did you sell the Rise?

The Trek Exe, I’ve been told for some reason they eat through their battery and you’re looking at around 20 miles from a battery, I can do that in my own legs so wouldn’t be any good for me.

I see comments like this quite often. If you can do 20 miles without assistance why do you assume you’ll only be doing 20 miles with assistance?

When I bought my first eBike 2 laps of the Verderers at FoD was my limit. As soon as I got the eeb I was doing 4 or more.

Also don't discount the Focus Jam SL. I really enjoyed the day out I had on it. It was a mates but its now top of my list!

The Trek Exe, I’ve been told for some reason they eat through their battery and you’re looking at around 20 miles from a battery,

Range is so variable from person to person, it's hard to compare it objectively, especially with the configurable assist levels.

Just for some counter balance I've had 20 miles and 2800 feet of climbing out of just the range extender battery on my exe, that's 160wh. I was really ekeing it out, no assist on the flat bits and down hills, and very low assist on the uphills, riding with others on regular ebikes, so going quite slowly, it was v hard work,just not quite as hard as riding a regular bike

I've also had only 2000feet and 12 miles out of the main battery (360wh) on max mode for the whole ride, going pretty quickly, not even trying to make the battery last.

Typically I find I will get 3000 feet of climbing over 18 miles out of the main battery using mostly the (tweaked up a bit from default) mid mode, I would have thought that you'd get a lot more than me as you're a lot lighter.

A few bike journos have done tests as objectively as they could across the various light ebikes and the range on the EXe was comparable to others with similar size batteries.

Not a fan of the SL variant as it’s just a slightly lighter bike by putting a smaller less powerful motor and battery in. You can achieve the same (making it harder) through Mission Control app.

Except the lowest power setting on most full-fat bikes is the same as the highest power setting on an SL - circa 30-35NM.

Also on the better Specialized SL bikes (with the Mastermind TCU) it's possible to micro tune the power on the fly in 10% intervals (from 0 to 100%) - consequentially very easy to eek out battery.

Except the lowest power setting on most full-fat bikes is the same as the highest power setting on an SL – circa 30-35NM.

Hmmmm

Mid range motors have less guts 💯. My mates spec sl Feels like eco when it's in turbo

@thegeneralist yeah I sold it, I couldn’t justify the cost of the two bikes and the spec was poverty and the geometry was fairly tame. This time I want something to completely replace my sentinel.

The exe is certainly one I’ll try and check the range to see how it compares, fully aware it can vary massively depending on lots of factors but equally I don’t want to watch the display as soon as I get on it! The Levo SL did 4027ft of ascent over the 26 miles. The rise had 60nm and the exe/spec have 50nm so more than up to the job.

My Rail in Eco is easier to ride up hill than my KSL1 in Turbo. The new generations of mid power bikes will obviously be a bit faster.

I’m me thing that no one has mentioned is travel.

The rise can be 140/140 or 150/160 . Is it stupid to go for the shorter travel or will longer travel be dull on most trails ?

This is coming from only having ridden a 100/100 bike

Steve the ebiker youtube channel fella does a video about why long travel ebikes are better. IMO go for the longer travel, there's just no downside.

I thought that about longer travel when I got my KSL, but its certainly slower in woodsy singletrack than the Heckler. The Heckler is MX too, so I'm sure that assists with the difference in feel as well as different geometry in addition to a little bit less travel.

KSL is absolutely not a bad bike, but it wasn't quite right for my riding.

I have an alloy Rise. I can easily get 4000' out of the internal battery.

OK, it's hard work but that was what I wanted, a bike with some assistance rather than an bike that does all the work.

If you demo any shimano bikes (I'm sure others will have something similar) try to play with the power settings in the Shimano app. It's not just the amount of power in each mode that can be tweaked, there's also the 'characteristic' I think it's called. It's basically how much effort you need to put in to achieve the power available in each mode.

So, you might have Trail mode set to 42nM. This is the maximum power the motor will deliver in that mode. Setting the characteristic to a low number means you'll have to work hard to achieve that level (or any level) of assistance whereas setting it to a higher number means it needs less effort from you to get the same power.

That setting has a huge impact on how the bike feels to ride.

I have Eco mode set to the minimum of 20nM and it still feels like slightly more that I'd like sometimes.

Any time I start the ride off in trail mode though, Eco always feels like it's not doing anything. I think it's too easy to get used to the assistance and you start to miss it when it's not there. I think this is why people who have ridden FF bikes say that SL bikes are too low on power. They're not, you just need to get used to it

I went for the Heckler SL and hope the Fazua complaints are over repeated as it is really enjoyable to ride. It probably has too much power for my use as I rarely go higher than it's middle setting and am happy pedaling the flats with the lower powered setting . The highest power is perfect for pushing a mate up the hill

Fat man buys ebike shocker.

Thanks Bens very useful.

So hopefully I could set motor profiles to work for my local rides ie lots of assist to get the nasty horrible road sections over and done with and the less assist for when I get to the nice off road stuff.

From the sound of it I could also set a profile for 'big days out' with lower assistance.

Fat man buys ebike shocker.

Congratulations you win a prize 🙂

I went for the Heckler SL

Hopefully I can test ride one this weekend

Mid range motors have less guts 💯. My mates spec sl Feels like eco when it’s in turbo

AKA full-fat riders are slackers, put some effort in fat-boy 🙂

I’ll be interested to hear how you like the heckler, always been a SC rider but reports of the fazua aren’t good. That and their insistence just lately to put shocks where nobody can see them or get to them!

Stuff that's probably/maybe been mentioned and worth bearing in mind based on my experience as as sort of foster parent to a Turbo Levo, which I ride occasionally.

One is that personally I find the additional weight of the full-fat e-mtb a bit problematic on proper steep downhill, nadgery stuff. It has a tendency towards 'run-away train' mode compared to a normal bike. Plenty of people don't seem to have that issue and maybe it would lbe ess of one if I rode it more, but it's what makes the idea of a lightweight e-mtb more attractive to me.

Second, I find motor noise intrusive. I get that a lot of people don't care, but one of the attractions, for me, of being out on the bike, is escaping from all that man-made racket rather than taking it with me. The Levo - an older, 2017 one - is very quiet in eco, so not bad. The latest Levo SL is supposed to be very quiet indeed. Some e-mtbs at full chat sounds like a small combine harvester, which personally I dislike.

Third, I'm not particularly fussed about flying up climbs at speed. I get that that there's a certain exhilaration to it and I like climbing fast up stuff without a motor, but really for me, I just want the assist to take the edge off the effort rather than being an event in itself. It's easy to get hung up on power output etc and I guess if your thing is smashing out quick laps or maximising descent in a ride/time span then it's relevant, but for me it's more about energy conservation.

Not saying those takes are more or less valid than anyone else's, but maybe worth bearing in mind.

Having had & ridden various ‘SL’ ebikes, I still am of the opinion I wouldnt bother with one, as they still don’t offer me anything more than a normal bike, apart from some of the outlier spurious range/elevation claims which are more than my 62kg Elite XC racing riding buddy can manage on one. 😆

By the time my Kenevo was was an appropriate spec, it was nearly 21kg. My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.

I still maintain if it was my only bike, then it might sneak back into the ‘maybe’ category, but then I think I would just be p*ssed off with the reliability aspect, also not being able to race it, taking it abroad is a PITA, etc.

BadleyWiredDog - I am with you on all your comments. Even in the pic above I dont want a bike to just elevate me to the top, I want to work for it, I just want to have enough juice left in my own tank to continue the ride on rather than be too empty to continue.

To get to the local riding near me means some road sections of between 10-20% climbs. This is no fun whatsoever to me on an mtb and more than happy to use what ever power I can to get through this.

Motor noise - This is something hopefully after the weekend I will know where my own thoughts are. I do like being out in nature for the very reasons of it being quiet and away from man made stuff. But I guess you cant have your cake and eat it.

By the time my Kenevo was was an appropriate spec, it was nearly 21kg. My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.

Yeah I think this is why quite a lot of the manufacturers are very cagey about their weights. By the time you get a light weight emtb at affordable spec, I dont think they are far off the weight of full fat. I do want to ride a full fat just for comparison.

Weights of the new Rise cannot be found anywhere currently, but on a Facebook Group someone has said the M10 LT with 630wh battery in Large is 20.3kg. Thats pretty good for the battery and access to full fat emtb capability

Warranty Claims - I was on a phone call to a bike shop yesterday. They said Orbea still pay bikes shops to do warranty work ie their labour costs etc where as many brands do not. My LBS is an Orbea dealer (15 mins away) but they cant get any new stock. I can get an Orbea just under 2hrs from where I live. If Orbea still pay shops to do proper warranty work i assume this means my LBS is more likely to be happy to deal with an Orbea in the future, even if I didnt buy it from them?

Hob-NobFree Member

My Rail is 23.5kg with a 750wH battery.

What clever witchcraft have you done with your Rail? Mine is same frame/size as yours, but I'm a full KG heavier - and I can't imagine you're not on DH tyres. Carbon wheels? (and out of curiosity - what brakes? Don't care much for the Codes mine came with)

Warranty - my Cannondale had to go back for some engine rattle (loose bolts) - I'd bought from Leisure Lakes, but it was sorted by a local Cannondale dealer. I'd assume Orbea set up is similar

By the time you get a light weight emtb at affordable spec

My fuel exe is 19.3kg with pedals, with fox 38 160mm fork. Continental kryptotal/xynotal enduro casing tyres, magura mt7 brakes, t type axs derailleur and the main battery.

With no battery at all it's 17.3kg

With just the range extender is 18.3kg

With the main battery+ range extender it's 20.3kg

A lot of the sl ebikes use very thin light tyres in their out of the box spec (and the fuel exe is no exception) in order to hit a low headline weight.

I think your looking at 19-20kg  for most sl ebikes for a good solid build that suits a more downhill bias.

What clever witchcraft have you done with your Rail? Mine is same frame/size as yours, but I’m a full KG heavier – and I can’t imagine you’re not on DH tyres. Carbon wheels? (and out of curiosity – what brakes?

Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.

That sounds ridiculous, as I didn’t intend to build it light, and to a degree, I don’t really care about weight on bikes (as long as it wasn’t a 28kg tank) but I had some nice bits spare, so this is how it ended up.

Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.

And my similar high spec KSL with Michelin Wild Enduro's is 19kg - I know which one I'm happy lifting over a gate...

I see this point (along with lifting it onto a roof rack of a car, etc) raised a few times, but in 5 years of riding ebikes, I have never once, needed to lift it over a gate. Maybe it’s not a thing on the England/Wales border.

Obviously, YMMV, but it’s really not an issue in my world.

I've only had to lift over a gate once - but that's cos I was on a footpath. Nearly didn't make the rest of the ride, bloody killed me 😂

Hob-NobFree Member

Battery lock removed (with all the plate, gubbins, etc it’s ~500g alone!). Running Conti Enduro casing tyres, reasonably light sets of wheels I had spare, Trickstuff brakes, light saddle, XX T-Type, etc. I reckon I could probably get it close to 23kg with a lighter shock too.

Interesting.... I have the Enduro Contis on the regular bike, find them excellent, but figured I'd go full sticky for the Ebike. Saw a thread on the battery lock, it is a bit of a useless feature - had no idea it was that much.

Will be running the same shock as you, whenever the Vivid is back in stock...... Tempted by Trickstuff, but such silly money - that said, it's the new norm, there are two more German brands with the same pricing now

@funkydunc I had issues with the rear linkage ( along with many others ) on my 2022 Rise . My Orbea dealer is a 3 hour round trip away but they organised the replacement parts from Orbea then sent them to my LBS who fitted them under warranty. LBS said the guys at the Orbea dealer Ark Cycles Stroud formerly Noah's Ark ( remember them 👍) we very helpful . Saved me 2 ballache trips .

I’ve figured a ‘light weight’ emtb just because theres a chance of getting it over gates/walls etc, and occasionally getting it on the car roof rack.

Best save some of the budget for a decent gym membership/home gym set up. And forget anything that has a non removable battery.

I can get my Canyon Strive over a gate with a struggle (and help if available). No chance of getting it on a car roof though.

Maybe it’s not a thing on the England/Wales border.

That's because you're only allowed to ride on roads & bridleways whereas I live in Scotland and can pretty much ride ANYWHERE 🙂

The demo Levo SL was loud, I couldn’t hear my husbands rail over the noise now whether that’s because it’s a demo that will of had a hard life I don’t know but it was far from ‘quiet’.

Lifting over gates etc. is a real concern and being the weight I am personally I’m not going to be able to manoeuvre a full fat bike. We’ve been in a fair few situations where we’ve needed to lift the rail over gates etc. I guess it depends how much you travel round or whether you stick to your local stuff. We did HBR this week and crossed the narrow bridge at the end which has two gates at either end, even manipulating on to the back wheel takes effort. He couldn’t get it through the one end due to a height restriction (stupid XL bike) and we had to do a two person lift.

The demo Levo SL was loud, I couldn’t hear my husbands rail over the noise now whether that’s because it’s a demo that will of had a hard life I don’t know but it was far from ‘quiet’.

That's interesting. Specialized supposedly modified the motor and its gubbins to make it quieter and reviews I've read/watched suggest that it's almost silent. Eg from this site, below. I wonder if the one you tried was, as you say, on the way out.

Specialized SL 1.2 motor
Besides its 50Nm torque and 320 watts peak power, what’s new about the 1.2 motor? It’s now contained in a two-piece housing (instead of three-piece) which has a lining shaped like honeycomb to help quell and dissipate noise. Specialized claim that it’s around 34-45% quieter than the SL 1.2.]

During the two days I had in North Wales riding the new Levo SL I didn’t have a TQ motor bike on hand to directly compare their loudness. Suffice to say, it is loads quieter than previous SL bikes. I’d still say that the TQ is the quieter of the systems but the SL 1.2 is certainly more than quiet enough; you can’t hear it once riding off-road and/or riding faster than jogging speed (the trail and/or wind noise drowns it out).

https://singletrackmag.com/charged/2023/05/specialized-levo-sl-review/

So hopefully I could set motor profiles to work for my local rides ie lots of assist to get the nasty horrible road sections over and done with and the less assist for when I get to the nice off road stuff.

From the sound of it I could also set a profile for ‘big days out’ with lower assistance.

Default on my Rise, there are 2 profiles available, each with 3 power modes. Eco/ Trail/ Boost. Using the app you can configure the max power, set the characteristics and some other things for each power mode in each profile.

So yeah, you can do what you suggest. I have profile 1 set at 20nm/38nm/50nm. This is how I ride pretty much everything but I've left profile 2 on the default settings which I think are 30someting/42/62. If I burn out early, I can swap over to profile 2 to get a bit of extra help in each of the settings.

On the road thing, I prefer to keep it in Eco and just spin away on road sections. At least getting a bit of cardio in and a bit of a leg burn. Using max assist to get it over and done with will burn the battery up unnecessarily fast. You'll be motoring along at 15.7mph bouncing off the limiter just because you can.

I also find that if I do up the power on the road sections, the psychological effect when you get back off road is that the assistance isn't doing much so I tend to want to keep it in trail mode to get the responsive feel back. This starts to eat into the range.

I think there's a lot getting used to it, which ever bike you end up with.

When I first got mine, I was getting 3000ish feet from the battery (and I was a lot fitter than I am now). Now I'll easily get 4000' over say, 30 miles and finish the ride with 20-30% left.

No way it was ‘you can’t hear it off road’, as soon as I pedalled the husband said ‘loud isn’t it’ and everybody knew I was coming that’s for sure.

@GolfChick was it a Levo SL or a SL2? The second gen motor is significantly quieter than the gen 1.

The SL2, they had both available but I specifically booked the gen 2 for the newer motor.

The Heckler SL is very quiet, hope the test ride goes well.

https://www.bikeperfect.com/features/im-no-mtb-purist-but-here-are-10-things-i-really-hate-about-electric-mountain-bikes

Actually agreeing with GK 👍

Just weighed my trusty Levo after reading this - it’s 24.3kg with the horrible mudguards so 23.9kg without (120+300g). It’s the alloy 500Wh one from late 2018, 160mm Lyrik, LinkGlide drivetrain (just gone to 10 speed from 11), EX511/Pro4 wheels.

I haven’t ridden any of the light e-bikes but I can confirm that as an average height but reasonably strong 40something man, putting a ~24kg bike on a roofrack of an MPV isn’t a whole lot of fun. I might take the battery out next time as I gather that weighs ~3kg so would make me a bit less incomfortable about technically exceeding the weight limit of the Thule carrier…

The motor is pretty damned quiet even in Turbo. It’s fast uphill, fast downhill (too fast?), even with slightly dated geometry.

Decision made, and it’s a Rise M10 LT 630wh + DI2

Yesterday I test road in order - Rise SL, Rise LT,  Whyte E-Lyte, Levo SL, Rise LT

Bear in mind I’m coming from a 100mm travel 26er XC bike from 2012!! All these bikes are so much more competent. Some stuff that would have me picking lines, or over the bars on current bike were so easy. Speeds were significantly higher downhill or in singletrack .

The Rise SL was the closest to my current bike, but still way more competent apart from the tyres which were very XC. The Fox34 felt a bit firm, but then went through their travel when pushed

The Rise LT was in low chip setting. Even stationary it felt a little more relaxed in the geometry. Weirdly straight away on the downs it felt more stable and odly quicker steering/ more playful. That could have just been me feeling more relaxed because of the more relaxed geo and lower BB, really enjoyed riding it. This was a 420wh version. Even the Orbea guys said it is slightly more nimble than the 630wh so will have to see when it comes.

Whyte - wanted to like it, looked at it and just looked a bit meh. Boring colour, looked a bit industrial/ cheap. Money definitely gone in to the components. They only had a medium to demo and I was at the max that the seat would go down. I felt like I needed a small, but besides that the front end felt high. Riding the front wheel lacked feel, which again I think was a size issue. It felt like a bike that takes you for a ride , rather than you riding it if that makes sense. It wasn’t slow and handle everything with ease, just wasn’t engaging me. Was just a bit Ford Mondeo, does everything well but just no sparkle

Levo SL - Brilliant but flawed. Very poppy, agile, engaging, slightly more so than the Rise LT ie 9/10 rather than 8/10. However I couldn’t get over the battery range and motor anxiety. Even before taking the bike out some of the Specialized guys were saying to maybe buy the range extender, which is a compromise I would make, however coupled with the motor power issue below it unfortunately made it a no. Very nice bike though!

Rise LT / took it out again to back to back with the Levo , this time the battery was dead so had to pedal it. Reinforced my initial thoughts  and very similar fun to the Levo just in a slightly different way.

I didn’t have time to try a full fat. Santa Cruz weren’t there and apparently stock can be an issue at the minute .

Motors - The Shimano felt natural at its less powerful settings. The extra power mode was nuts, way above anything the other motors could offer. I didn’t hear any knocking.

The BOSCH motor felt the most refined mechanically, but made a weird noise when you stopped pedalling. It also through a wobbly half way round and went in to limp mode. Switching it off and back on solved it

Levo SL - was slightly odd, and I don’t know if they messed around with the power settings. The low was almost none existent, and the mid felt almost identical to the top. It rode nicely in the mid setting in technical singletrack , but the motor felt out of its depth climbing steeper fire roads where even in high I was working much harder than on any other bike. Was also the loudest motor too !

Biggest surprise of the day for me was electric shifting. Always thought it was a gimmick, but it’s bloody brilliant especially on an ebike in tech singletrack / techy up and downs when your speeds are much higher than an analogue bike. So much so I’ve put DI2 as an upgrade. Di2 shifters are awful compared to SRAM but will be interesting to see how well  freeshift  works, not sure if I will bother with autoshift.

The Rise LT won because it’s competent, playful, incredibly powerful motor, although I think not want that setting for steep roads and to eliminate steep fire roads, I shouldn’t get range anxiety either

Interesting that you found the Levo SL the loudest which sort of echo'd my impression. I also agree with the demo I took out, the mid and high felt almsot identical. I put it in high to try shooting up a very small sharp bit at GT and stalled halfway and had to hop off because it was gutless. I wonder if the shimano has been reduced or if it just wasn't chattery enough terrain to show up. Shame about the whyte because I'd have thought with the bosch it would be a contender but I dont like the hope bling they throw on the top model and I'm not chucking £10k at it.

Shame about the whyte because I’d have thought with the bosch it would be a contender

The Whyte was in no way bad, just didnt do anything for me, it was in no way less competent than the others, just a different ride characteristic IMO.

The only other thing I havent commented on is weight. They all felt the same weight to regardless of the odd kilo here or there.

I don't have a Levo SL so don't know this translates, but the FF Levo's Trail (mid) and Turbo (max) modes have the same max power output  but you need to put (alot) more input into trail mode, where-as Turbo work with only a minimal input of the pedaling input (140w apparently)

Quote from Specialized post (regarding trail mode, set to the std): "35%, you're getting approx 1.5x rider support. This will feel much more natural to ride and you'll use less battery - in Trail mode with 100% peak power the motor will still reach it's maximum assist of 560W but this time you need to put in 390W rider power to get there"