OK, it took five rides, but I've finally managed to put my finger on what it is that I really like about this bike (and it's no doubt true of other similar bikes too). Basically (and don't ask me how they do this) it manages to be both playful and fun at low speeds and incredibly stable at high speeds. So you can happily potter along a tame trail admiring the view and listening to the birds without feeling that you are over-biked yet if you want to attack a section it's up for that too. It doesn't suck the fun out of tame trails like some longer travel bikes. In fact it is one of the most playful and fun bikes I've ridden. But, unlike some pure XC bikes, it doesn't then get terrifying when the speed picks up.
Funnily enough that doesn't always translate to faster times on the descents. Instead of just hanging on and trying to get to the bottom as soon as possible I'm finding that I feel so relaxed that I start playing around, looking for interesting lines and often forgetting that it's a Strava segment altogether 🙂
Had mine a week now, last night s ride, forks feel great, its reassuringly good in lots of ways. its long, slack, climbs really well and feels like more than 120mm of travel out back. Treated it to some new Saint pedals as well.
Really pleased with it
Should not have started reading this! - love the Mercury finish @snakebite and the write up @roverpig. I now really want a Mercury Flaremax - despite a relatively recent FS (Whyte T129RS). N+1 time.....
N+1 time….
Always a good plan 🙂
By the way, I set a PR on a 17 minute climb that I'd done 53 times before the other night. Some of those other attempts were on hardtails with much lighter (racing ralph) tyres. OK, there is no doubt a bit of new bike enthusiasm going on, but it's hard to stay enthusiastic for 17 minutes of climbing and some of those other rides would have been when those bikes were new too.Basically, what I'm trying to say is it climbs really well
I also set a PR on a two minute fast loose decent, but that's more understandable 🙂
How tall are you flaremax owners? I'm horribly between sizes at 5'10.5" with long arms. The reach on the large is pretty similar to a large s150, which feels fine, but the ett is huge!
trying to choose between this, a large s150 or a m/l Bird am9. It's doing my head in! I'd rather have a shorter travel bike for most of my riding but prefer the look of the numbers on the whyte and bird...
I'm 6 foot. Maybe a touch under (haven't measured my height for years). The large feels spot on to me. I've pushed the seat forward a bit which I guess reduces the ett, but seated climbing feels fine.
@ianpv I'm about the same size / proportions as you and had the same dilemma over sizing compared to my current bikes - discussed with Cotic and went with the large and 35mm stem, and bought without a test ride.
It's a great fit and positioning wise feels about the same as my large Whyte M109c and Vertex XC bikes, with the longer stems.
I've got the 27.5+ wheels on mine which has been a fun experiment and about to try a 29er wheelset for longer days.
I'm 5' 10, demoed both the medium and large of the flare max because I was unsure on sizing. Large was much, much better for me. Descending on the med was fine but climbing felt really hard work and cramped. Switched to the large and suddenly much easier!
Yes, the ett looks long on paper, but I suspect that’s part of the reason why it seems to climb so well. Plenty of room to breathe and it pulls you forwards a bit, which helps to keep it on line I think. Always worth a test if you’re not sure though.
How are you finding it after a few months? I can't afford a new bike right now but having spent the past week researching bikes I can't afford, this is looking like one of the best choices.
I picked up a standard flare a few months ago and absolutely love it. I'm a serial swapper, but this bike is a keeper. My first real foray in to full suspension too. It just feels right whether I'm blasting down a rocky descent, climbing an evil hill or bimbling along the canal on my way to work. Really chuffed with it
It's long and slack (for a 29er) so feels a bit different at first, but the more I ride it the more I like it.
The first thing that struck me about it (when I'd just built it and was messing around in the garden) was that it suddenly felt (for the first time) as though I could trackstand. I don't mean sitting at the lights rolling a joint or anything, but I could come to a halt without immediately falling over, which was unusual. That stability has been a reccuring feature over the past few months. It climbs really well. Put down the power and you can go uphill at a fair lick, but even more impressive is how slowly you can go! A few times I've ground to a halt but just managed to keep my balance and get started again, which has meant clearing a few climbs that I hadn't managed before.
Stability at speed is also great, as you'd expect from the long wheelbase and overall confidence when descending is better than anything I've ridden before.
The strange thing is that all this confidence and stability doesn't come at the expense of fun on the tamer trails. It always feels lively and fun to me. There is a lovely springy quality to the ride that just makes it a fun place to be and I'm as happy munching the miles on tamer trails as I am pushing my (very narrow) limits on the tech.
It's interesting that most manufacturers still seem to be trying to make chainstays as short as possible then dropping the BB for stability. Cotic have gone the other way, with longer chainstays but a higher BB. As far as I can tell you still end up with the balance of stability/playfullness just with fewer pedal strikes, which suits the rocky and rutted trails that I tend to ride.
Of course it's not perfect, no bike is, it just suits me and how/where I ride.
A longer travel bike would no doubt be faster down rough trails, but there would be a price to pay on climbs that I wouldn't want to pay.
A shorter bike would probably turn faster, but my trails are open and rocky rather than super tight and it turns quite fast enough for me. It does require a slightly different technique, more countersteer, but once you get the hang of it you can carry a lot of speed through the bends.
Well, that's my thoughts so far. I got it at the end of April, since when I've spent around 60 hours in the saddle and have not ridden (or wanted to ride) any of my other bikes.
Thanks for the update. My local trails are tame so I'd been looking at one of the new style XC bikes, but I want something I can still feel confident on when I do try rougher and steeper stuff. The FlareMax sounds like it would give me that and still be fun wherever I ride it.
Now I just need to figure out where I can demo one.
That's similar to my use. Not that we are short of tech up here, but my preference is to use the massive network of stalkers paths, logging tracks etc to explore new areas in the mountains. So I like a bike that climbs well and munches the miles. Something that's comfortable and enjoyable to ride all day just enjoying the views. But exploring new tracks you never know what's round the corner and it can suddenly get technical (especially if there has been a bit of erosion). I like to ride on my own and don't like walking, so I like a bike that will give me as much margin for error as possible while still being fun all day. The FlareMax hits that sweet spot for me.
It's worth bearing in mind that before the FlareMax I'd spent a couple of years riding 5" fatbikes, which also do that job very well. So it's fair to say that I prefer a steamroller to a sports car. What I really like about the FlareMax is that it seems to give just as much confidence as the fatbike while being faster over rough ground (full suss vs hardtail/rigid) and more efficient on the very smooth tracks and roads (where 5" tyres tend to drag). That came as a bit of a surprise to be honest as I never thought I'd find anything that felt as stable when riding over loose rocks/scree as 5" tyres, but a slack 29er seems to do the job.
Mine has just arrived .... frame to built up
So that is the up and coming wet Sunday sorted ... 🙂
Nice one. Don't forget the pictures.
My turn 😀
It's only been to the park so far but first impressions are very good. Will save further thoughts for after I've ridden it properly. Blue and magenta XL 29er, GX Eagle with X-Fusion suspension.
Very nice. Looking forward to hearing how you get on with it and to seeing a few pictures of it dirty 🙂
That's lovely.
There's certain bikes / frames that I've always thought "yeah, I'd have one of those". A Cotic steel full suss deffo ticks one of the boxes for me.
(Lone rider too - usually because it's a case of having a couple of hours "freedom" without the kids and wife allows it and too short notice to call anyone. Plus, I prefer riding alone anyway)
How are you guys getting on with these?
Financial plans have changed so might have some money for one to join the Solaris..
The LS SolarisMAX works so well, this seems the logical bike to go for.
Still loving mine. I know, logically, it can't be the perfect bike for everyone, but it's getting pretty close for me. Anything particular you want to know? If not, here are a few pictures 🙂
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Love those photos.
Took mine to Swinley today, somewhere familiar for the first proper ride. Bearing in mind I'm still fairly new to MTB, I've been riding a Voodoo Bizango for the past 2 years and only have a few demos on other bikes as a frame of reference, it's hard for me to say whether the differences I notice are down to geometry, suspension or frame material.
The biggest thing is feeling far more in control of the bike - the best way I can put it is that it's intuitive to ride. I think it's the more central riding position, but I feel the bike responding to my movements more obviously and it's helping me work out how to weight and unweight and steer to get it to do what I want.
It's fast and stable downhill, lots of grip, and noticeably easier going uphill on rough or loose ground too. Obviously the rear wheel traction is much better than my hardtail but it's somehow more planted at the front too despite the long and slack thing.
It definitely helped me out in the rougher sections when I made some poor line choices, it just wanted to keep rolling. There's one awkward slow drop over a root that always catches me out - usually with the front wheel stalling in the hole and me nearly falling off. It still caught me out but instead of stalling the bike picked up speed and nearly sent me into a tree instead.
Downsides... it's a bit awkward round tight corners, and I'm getting more pedal strikes, but that's something I can work on with technique. The weight is noticeable though honestly I don't think there's much between it and the Bizango. I did try some lighter bikes that accelerated more easily, this takes some effort to get going. I didn't push it today (currently very unfit) but it's comfortable for seated pedalling and quite happy crawling up hills at walking pace.
Of course the most important thing is how good these bikes look.
Managed to beat the rain for a couple of hours at Bedgebury this morning, and had a play on a pump track in the week. The bike feels really good now I'm getting more familiar with it. It gives me so much more confidence and I'm trying things I never would have before - probably far less dramatic to watch than they feel at the time, but it's making my riding more fun.
It's not the bike for quick and efficient pedalling, it bounces like crazy if I sprint out of the saddle, but on the other hand steep climbs are quicker and easier, probably a combination of the 50t cog and the way the wheels stay glued to the ground. It feels like a bike I could ride all day if I wasn't bothered about how fast I was going, but fun to point it down whatever hill I can find.
I've booked a few days in the Peak District in a couple of weeks, I'm looking forward to seeing how I get on in its home terrain - and I'm pretty sure my ability will be the limiting factor.
Melton - how tall are you please? Limb length?
Kelron, not Melton........🙄
Autocorrect doesn't deal well with made up names does it...
I'm 6'2 and 34 inside leg, XL is definitely the right size for me. I'm using a 150mm dropper but could go longer if there's enough space in the seat tube, I haven't checked yet.
Ta, I’m a bit taller than you and have mk1 and mk2 Solarii (spg?) in XL, but the Longshot TT on the L is longer than my older XLs I think.
So how's everyone getting on with their Flare MAX's? Still loving it roverpig? I demoed one at the weekend and it was really good.
I'm seriously looking at getting one after having waited what seems like an eternity for the standard Flare to get the Longshot treatment I've had my head turned by the MAX and now have a 29" sized itch to scratch!
Will probably wait till after Christmas now but looking at getting a frame with Cane Creek shock, a set of 140mm Pikes, DT XM481 rims and hubs, then all the drivetrain etc from my current Transition Scout.
The one thing that puts me off ever so slightly is the weight, the Scout's a bit of a porker at 31lb and the Flare will add a couple of pounds at a guess.
Also demoed one at the weekend (along with a Rocket Max) and was really impressed with both on the downhills - so confidence inspiring, which for a wuss like me is just what I need. The rocket felt a bit draggy going uphill, which is inevitable I guess, and may be partly due to the tyres.
However the big problem for me, and it may be just me, is that my calves rubbed against the stays, just where the bolt was. Maybe the fact that was clipped in is part of the problem, but that's how I ride. But it is really annoying !
I'm still really happy with mine. Was in the Peak District last week and it rides really well up and down, on terrain I would have said was out of my comfort zone before.
re the weight, it doesn't feel noticeably heavier in practice than the Bizango I was riding before. That is coming from a £500 and fairly heavy bike of course, but they're both perfectly rideable. It doesn't make me want to race up hills but that's not what I bought it for.
I demoed a blinged out Intense Sniper before buying this, weighs a little over 10kg according to the spec sheet. It was a lot of fun to ride in a different way, super quick to accelerate and great on the flowy trail I demoed it on. I would have considered it if it had been in budget but I also can't see it being as comfortable as the FlareMax clattering down rocky bridleways at speed.
Yep, still loving mine. Not much to say that I haven’t said already really but no rubbing with my puny calves 🙂
According to my scales it only weighs 1 lb more than the 26” Five it replaced (32 vs 31 lb). It’s heavier than most (but not all) bikes I’ve owned in the past but also faster uphill than almost all of them, so I can’t really see a problem with the weight. In practice I only notice it when I have to carry it.
Thanks chaps, I'm pretty much sold. Now I need to decide what colour, blue, mercury or dark metal!
I'd be surprised if the FlareMAX was any heavier than your Scout. Transittions build their similarly durable to ours so I'd expect there not to be much if anything in the frame weight. There will be a little in the bigger wheels, but not a lot.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the bikes.
@cy I hope I've not offended in anyway, the fact I'm currently using a Float X shock will probably negate any extra weight.
I'm just struggling with colour lol. Any idea when you'll have some pics of the dark metal built up? I assume mid November when they arrive. Plus there's no date on the large blue/orange which is currently favorite.
My Mk1 FlareMax (M) with fairly heavy wheels (Hope hubs/35mm rims) and chubby tyres was 1lb less than a similarly spec’d (L) smuggler running 2.3 29s on Stan’s Arch MK3/Hope. Rest of the kit was very similar - XT/Reverb/X-Fusion fork.
The FlareMax always felt easier to pedal.
I have Dark Metal on my SolarisMax and it’s lovely 🙂
My flare max is no heavier than my remedy to be fair-the only thing that really changed it for me was the rear shock, the inline is miles better than the x-fusion, so go for that upgrade from the start, there was nowwhere near enough damping on the x-fusion.
Ive kept my 2.8 Alps minions on all summer, heavier but grip is great, maybe move to 2.8 Mary's for winter, but I just love the grip from big tyres.
dropping from Flare max to Solaris max is great, they compliment each other perfectly
Lovely lovely bike.
Im a lone Cotic (soul, Mercury with orange) rider too, expect those human types trying to talk to you from now on though.
What bottle cages are you running? I'm planning on going #fullenduro and assume I need something side loading? Actually can I go enduro on a 120mm bike, this is all so confusing. Anyway I'm another happy owner, love the centered feel and surprised how the wheelbase only seems to help even on tight stuff. Only thing wrong with it is it's made my dh bike feel too short...
Specialized Zee. Comes in left and right handed versions. Just about fits a 700ml bottle on the XL frame.
I was going to ask if anyone with a large frame has tried a 710ml Camelbak Podium bottle?
If not I'd be tempted to try one of the Wolftooth B-Rad things that let you slide the bottle mounts further back.
That's the bottle I'm using, I'd hazard a guess it won't fit on a large as it appears to be 30mm shorter.
Plenty of room to move the cage further back though with the X Fusion shock, I understand the position is to leave space for a piggyback shock if you want one.
Thanks kerlon, thought that maybe the case.
So handily I have a large flaremax a specialized zee cage (bought on way home tonight) and a camelback podium 610ml. It just goes in with cage slammed right back but rests on cables on downtube. I don't think I'm happy with it. Shame the bosses aren't 10mm back as there is loads of room to my cc shock. I think the large is 500ml bottles unless you can try loads of bottle and cage combos.
Cheers for cage recommendation.
Is there enough meat around the cage mounting holes to cut a new hole/elongate the current ones to move it back if it's that close to working?
I looked at it, only a few mm on the front. I got quite close by putting 4mm of washers between the frame and cage at the rear bolt to angle it upwards. The plastic cage seems quite flexy so I want decent clearance or every bump will have the bottle flattening the brake hose. I looked at the bolt hole spacer you suggested but as it takes up some height it's not a definite gain as it pushes the bottle down into the downtube. I reckon with some effort you can make it work, if I get time I'll go back to shop and measure up different cages to see if any are that 10mm further back that I need. For me over the winter I'll live with a 500ml bottle for post work rides and live with a pack on anything longer.
Wolftooth Morse cage might work, it has 3/4 different mounting locations.
Okay so I've just been to a go outdoors with tape measure and bike in van. Camelback podium dirt series 620ml fits as it's a different shape to the one I already had. Its got 3or4mm clearance to the plastic hose guide rather than to the hoses themselves so I'm happy if it clashes over bumps. Large frame, specialized zee bottle cage.
I want ten geek points for posting this on the internet.
How about one of the Fabric cageless bottles?
I use a fabric cageless bottle on my med flaremax,not lost it yet on any rough descents. It's a tight fit between the db shock lever but doesn't rub or catch.
So I've been out a few times now and love the bike. However I've read in reviews that I shouldn't like the seat angle. A bit of a google talks about opening up hip angle for better power transfer on time trial bikes but surely our high handlebars mean we're already pretty good for this. So is it just for wheely versus wheelspin bal<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">ance on climbs? I think it's seems well balanced, maybe because of the long stays? I'm a bit confused as to the problem and don't have any access to bikes with steep seattubes to see the benefit. I don't want to go all cotic fanboy and claim it's perfect but am genuinely interested, can anyone explain why?</span>
I tried a large (I'm 6ft dead with 35" inside leg) and when seated felt like my weight was too far back and was pushing forward through the pedals not down while at the same time being stretched out. A very odd sensation. The nose got wandery and I had to shift the saddle all the way forward on the rails and then perch on the end for steep climbs. I suspect that if you have long legs for your height the very slack actual seat angle puts the saddle too far back so the effective seat angle is slacker than quoted. But it is also personal experience and preference.
Heading down with the saddle out of the way it was an absolute monster, loved it.
I did find it easier to pedal after shifting the saddle forward, and it still feels further behind the cranks than I'm used to. I'm considering trying shorter cranks but it's not a priority, it might be more efficient if it was steeper but maybe that would have knock on effects on the handling in other areas?
I’ve said it before, but I still find the balance on seated climbs amazing. The way I can pretty much come to a standstill but still keep going still surprises me. I’m 6’ tall too, but a more conventionally proportioned 33” inside leg 🙂 Most modern bikes have true seat angles that are slacker than the effective (I think the FlareMax may actually be steeper than many) so I guess leg length could be crucial to whether it feels too slack or not.
I've about a 32" inside leg so schoolboy maths puts my saddle about 20mm forward of Shackleton's saddle, using effective rather than real post angle. Maybe that's enough to explain the difference in feel as its similar to a degree and a bit of seat angle. Seems odd though otherwise why aren't seattubes at 90 degrees with an offset, surely all bikes have this issue and anyone below average height wouldn't get on with steep seat angles. I don't really get it, maybe I'll just accept my bike feels fine!
Yes, I’ve pretty much gone down that route i.e. given up trying to work out why it feels good and just enjoying the fact that it does. That doesn’t mean that those who don’t like the way it feels are wrong of course, just that we are all different.
Quick question to owners, have a frame hopefully arriving mid November, was planning a parts transplant but suddenly thought boost rear end am I going to run into issues using my current xt m785 chainset with single ring or do I need to factor in a boost chainset to give adequate chainstay clearance?
I think it might depend on how large the chainring it, but it might work. No harm in trying it and if it doesn't work then you might be able to get a boost chainring for your chainset.
Awesome, cheers rover. Hadn’t even occurred to me until I’d started stripping the old bike in preparation
So I've now ordered a frame, got a set of 140mm 2019 Pikes that I got for a bit of a bargain (relatively speaking) and some DT Swiss XM481 rims laced to 240 hubs coming from Germany next week. New tyres, stem, headset and a couple of other bits arriving Christmas day (all being well) and I should be good to go. Drivetrain, saddle post etc. all coming off my current bike.
First 29er and I can't wait, all I need to worry about now is Invisframing and building it 🙂
Great. Look forward to the pictures. Couldn't be bothered with inivisiframing mine, just a few patches of 'copter tape in places where it might rub (cables and where it mounts on the roofrack). But then I quite like the look of the odd scar 🙂
Fathomer, I know you probably already have but check how long the steerer is. Just bought a Rocketmax frame and I had to buy a different stem with only 30mm stack to get it on my 175mm steerer.
Edit: sorry, just noticed your forks are new 🙂
@roverpig looking at my Transition which is Invisiframed, it'll still have loads of scars.
@Brake-neck thanks but like you say I've gone for new forks 🙂
So, my frame is here and invisiframed, its bloody lovely 🙂
Anyway, I'm in the process of building the rest of it but not sure on one thing. The gear cable where it goes in and out of the frame, do you need a ferrule or is it just the Jagwire thing one end and the rubber bug the other? Ta.
https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/flareMAX#gallery
Think you can just about see in these pics, ferrule by the shock, extra wrap sleeve thing by the mech.
Thanks woots787 but I thought it looked like no ferrule at either. I've emailed Cotic just to make sure.
Pretty sure I used a Jagwire thing at both ends on mine. Seems to have been fine.
Thanks @roverpig got the cables sorted.
Last question hopefully, I've never had so many little issues when building a bike. Is anyone else's chain very close to the chainstay when in the smallest sprocket, by the time I put the protector I'm pretty sure it'll be touching? (32t ring/10t sprocket)
I've got an 11t and it is close but doesn't touch when stationary, my bike was an ex-demo and there was a fair bit of paint missing on the flat bit on the top of the chainstay so it definitely touches when ridden. I got the sticky back velcro out and covered anywhere paint was marked. The bike is quiet so I shouldn't be bothered but the 'free with MBUK in the nineties' Neoprene chainstay protector is definitely my least favorite bit of the bike by a good margin.
Also I've upset my friends by getting a Dakine Gripper rather than using insulating tape. Fits a tube, 2x20g C02 and tyre levers nicely on the downtube under the shock. It did spin round when landing some jumps so I used a bit more sticky back velcro on frame and back and it's been great since.
@woots787 thanks again, I'll get the build finished and see how I go. I'm planning on self amalgamating tape on the chainstay.
And the grippers look very neat, might have to treat myself at some point 😀
Is it a boost chainring? I’ve not noticed it being a problem and haven’t lost any paint. I’m running a standard GX eagle boost drivetrain. I do have the Cotic chainstays protector pushed up towards the cranks (so it covers the flat bits) and am very rarely in the 10 unless I’m on a road, so maybe that’s a factor.
I like the idea of these, some people seem to have commented on the slackish seat tube suggesting climbing ability miggt be compromised over those with steeper angles. Whats your experience flaremax owners? And what did you compare it to?
I haven't ridden anything with a steep seat angle and would be really interested to try. I haven't yet seen a good explanation of what the steep seat angle gets you to improve climbing so much, is it weight balance between the wheels or a more open hip angle? A few pages back I asked a similar question and it seemed that if you downsized the frame so you ran a lot of post you were more likely to have an issue with the front wheel wandering. For me 178cm on a large I'm happy with the weighting of the wheels and have a much more open hip angle from the long reach so feel great on it. I think you have to demo different bikes to be sure. I wonder if forward offset seatposts will become a thing?
Well, according to the great God Strava I've set a fair few PRs on climbs since getting my FlareMax. So, you could say that I've compared it to every other mountain bike I've owned (four full-suss, two hardtails and two rigid fatbikes) and found that it's better 🙂
On a more subjective note; I've probably said this more than once already on this tread, but the climbing was the thing that most surprised me with the FlareMax. Not just the speed but the balance. I do like a climb but this is the most comfortable I've felt climbing off-road. I can (and do) push it and get PRs, but it also allows me to set a more comfortable pace and winch my way to the top without ever really feeling off balance. I don't know if the SA plays a part in that, but it feels good enough that I'd be reluctant to mess with it.
Now for the rambling bit 🙂 I've also never really understood the modern fashion for a steep SA, but maybe just because I haven't spent much time with one. Everyone seems to say that they help climbing, but I've never heard a convincing explanation for why. Years of evolution of the bike has led us to the conclusion that a SA around 72 degrees is about right for all day comfort and efficiency. A bit steeper for a TT bike, but not for anything you'd want to ride all day. So why are we suddenly being told that mountain bikes need a steeper SA to be good at climbing? Is it just a matter of shifting your weight forward to keep the front down when it gets steep? If that's the case then I wonder if it's just a crude fix for the problems caused by short chainstays. The FlareMax has longer that average chainstays and I've never had a problem with the font lifting on any long climb that I could actually ride up. I think I probably do shift my weight forwards for those short super steep sections. But those sections are short enough that shifting forwards isn't an issue. For sustained climbs it feels totally planted anyway, so I'm not sure why I'd want to move away from the SA that has proved to be the best compromise for over a hundred years! As I say, that could just be because I've not tried enough steep bikes. I suspect the next iteration of the FlareMax will be steeper as that's the current trend and I think the RocketMax is. But will it be better? I don't know. The current one is a tough act to beat.
I've only spent a day on the Flaremax but echo @Roverpig's thoughts. it's no weight weenie but flew up climbs. Technical and drags. And when things got steep it didn't wander. That may well be down to the stays. I would go as far as to say that for a bike of that nature it felt pretty zingy on the hills.
I'm no engineer but guessing that the steeper seat angle is a bi-product of the fashion for long bikes. A slacker seat will only push you even further back from the bars. So is it for climbing prowess as the marketeers will have you believe? Or just so you can feel like you're not overly stretched?
Weighed mine today ... it’s not the lightest build, it is an Xl, and it is running a Hope 35w 27.5 rear wheel with a 2.6 tyre on ... and Pikes
32 lbs ... I was expecting a couple more ...
A steeper seat angle in theory should put you in the middle of the bike when seated. It should rotate your hips allowing for a better down stroke.
If you have a slack seat post then the larger the post extension the further over the rear axle you will be. Which in turn unweights the front wheel, unless you sit right on the tip of the saddle.
A steeper seat angle in theory should put you in the middle of the bike when seated.
Surely that depends on how long the front and rear centres are. To take a silly example, if you had long chainstays and a really short top tube then you’d want a slack SA to get you in the middle of the bike. Which is why I was saying that I thought steep SAs were a response to bikes that had got longer at the front while keeping the chainstays short.
It should rotate your hips allowing for a better down stroke.
If that’s the case, why don’t those Tour riders use a steeper SA? Surely they want to put out more power too.
Not trying to be argumentative. I just don’t understand the logic for having a steeper SA on a mountain bike. I suspect there is something too it as so many people seem to prefer it. I’m just not sure why.
As far as I understand, the whole point of the ‘long/low/slack’ movement is to get riders more centred ‘in’ the bike, so this probably makes sense. Obviously front is going to come into it, but I think someone pointed out above that leaving seat angles where they were would tend to shift weight back and lighten the nose - exactly the opposite of what the new geo is trying to achieve.
I think the takeaway is that if you’re prepared to embrace the new thinking, current geo trends work well, but if you’re going to try and old-school it, a more conventional shorter bike may be better. I’m also noticing that the geo debates are heading the way of the 27.5/29 saga with ‘long bikes for speed and unskilled riders, short bikes for pros’ type comments coming up fairly often. Hopefully that’s not going to be the next couple of years of arguments!
Disclaimer: my main bike is currently one of the first generation Soul275’s...
The difference is in straight vs seat tubes that either don't emerge from the BB or are cranked. If you have a straight seat tube then SA remains the same regardless of saddle height. If you have one with a cranked seat tube like the FlareMax then the effective SA gets slacker and slacker as the saddle goes up.
So for me at 6ft with a 35" inseam on a large I had to put the saddle all the way forward on the rails (and it would have been even more so if I could) to get a comfortable climbing position on the FlareMax. If you have shorter legs for your height then it becomes less of an issue.
From chatting to various friends and others at the demo I suspect that the SA on the FlareMax was designed to suit the short legged fraternity.
Or my personal suspicion is that the wrong design was signed off on (compare to the RocketMax). I simply can't believe that they didn't take a range of body shapes into account when designing which doesn't leave many other explanations.......
Shame really as it was fantastic down the hill but pedalling it back up was an awkward experience. Not wandery but just like it was trying to bend me into a wrong shape that was very inefficient for pedalling. My hips felt miles behind the BB yet was quite stretched out to the bars which meant that I felt like I was pushing forward not down through the pedals.
