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...and keep having their account blocked - they then have to call bank but can't hear on the phone and then get in a muddle!! Off to sort them out again after work! 🙂
Is there a basic bank account that they can use that doesn't use 2FA. They just order from Sainsburys, Ocado and Amazon.
I know POA is the answer, but "there's no need for that yet, we're not going loopy", is the stock reply. 😬
Financial PoA isn't about going loopy, it's about you being able to help them with this sort of stuff. I use my mother's PoA for a few things she can't be bothered with (basically things my father used to do), she has all her marbles.
(Welfare PoA is for when they have lost capacity for decision making, and that won't help with the bank account anyway - it's basically for stuffing them in a care home and withdrawing medical treatment.)
I use Revolut for a lot of internet shopping, it seems pretty straightforward once set up. Validation is mostly just from opening the app on the phone (facial recognition/acknowledging the purchase).
Yep, financial PoA doesn’t require tnem to be loopy, thats the health one.
Do all you can to persuade them to sort PoA out asap. They can't agree to it when they are loopy,and tnen it becomes a nightmare.
Get it in - i.e. POA - 2FA is a nightmare as it is, but awkward for an oldie.
No need for POAc to be used yet. But it should be in place. But can’t you be added to their back accounts and pay for their orders from their account
Do you have a PoA in place? It is too late to do that once they are loopy, and becomes very expensive.
You can activate the PoA to help with things like this without removing them from the account - you can then do things as well as them if necessary.
Agree with PoA chat above, however for the original question - Monzo. As long as they have a smart phone. Might be easier to set up a standing order to it and use it for day to day spending and leave all the DD's and regular payments where they are.
I know POA is the answer, but “there’s no need for that yet, we’re not going loopy”, is the stock reply. 😬
There was a discussion around this on here the other day.
The point at which they are going loopy is the point at which it's too late. They have to be demonstrably of sound mind to agree. If you have to take it after they go loopy and are no longer able to consent, that will involve the courts and a long battle and will cost you thousands.
The way I broached it with my mum finally was by telling her that my partner and I were putting it in place for each other and going "ooh, I've just had an idea!" In the end didn't because I asked my solicitor to talk to her to explain it all but then slammed on the brakes when she (solicitor) wanted over a grand to fill in a couple of short forms, I said "you must be joking, I'll do it myself" and then never quite got around to it. The time when I did actually need it, it was pretty clear That she wasn't going to survive long enough for an application to be processed.
With it in place I don't think you can just unilaterally take over if that's their worry, and they can nominate more than one representative and state whether they want one to be unable to act independently without the other.
It's all on gov.uk and it's pretty straight-forward.
I would try out revolute or similar as long as they can unlock their phone they can authorise payments. I would personally warn against using finger print authorisation as it never seem very reliable to me. I have had big problems getting consistent results.
I use chase and the face biometric log in works well for me, would that work for them?
Nationwide account use facial ID and the Natiowide App. It prompts you to ‘click here to open the APp’, then the facial recognition does its thing, finally you are asked to verify the payment amount and payee by clicking the OK button under the payment details.
First Direct fingerprint authorization has worked well for me on three different phones.
In the meantime, you can try 'Third Party Access' with the bank, basically you are added to the account, get given a card, access to online/mobile banking, make transactions etc. Your parents would have to agree, but if its about supporting them and doing stuff WITH them, they may go for this.
What are they accessing things like Ocado from? On my iPad I just log in to Ocado using my face and (with Barclays as my bank) the transaction just gets automatically authorised. The first time or two you use a new payment card/new shopping web-site you usually have to go into the bank app and authorise the transaction but again Barclays app allows faceID logon (with a password required after a certain number of faceID logins).
If they're accessing from a PC it's probably more faff doing MFA so convince them to get an iPad for that sort of thing...
I worked out with my dad that he was being asked for 2FA. The message popped up on his phone.
But instead he would go to his banking app, login and wonder why he had not 2FA message.
As soon as I pointed out he had to click on the notification and then just use thumb/fingerprint, it all went swimmingly.
POA and the issue that your parents are having with 2FA aren't really connected.
You can still help them with the issues around them being locked out of their bank without any form of legal agreement - the main problems would come if/when they're too loopy to do any of that themselves at all and you need access to their account to pay bills, change a DD etc.
POA: go to gov.uk, search for Power of Attorney and download the forms. It's easy and cheap (about £85 IIRC, far cheaper than going through solicitors) and get them to sort it NOW. Trying to sort it once they've lost the ability for rational thought and decision will be very expensive and very time consuming. My sister and I have one in place with our Mum. From the moment of signing to having the POA in place took about 5 months which is pretty standard.
2FA: is there any option to use the app rather than logging into the bank webpage? The app is more secure and you can use fingerprint or face ID but it may require a more modern smartphone and the associated issues around contracts.
This happens fairly routinely when my Mum is trying to buy things - she'll log onto (eg) a train website to buy a rail ticket and by the time she's typed in card details and found passwords, it's timed out so she has to go through the whole thing all over again.
Set up the card in Google Pay and it should minimise the hassle
My new-to-me iPhone 10 has face recognition, it’s a game changer for me (I am crap with tech).
First Direct, PayPal etc now throw themselves prostrate before me, all seems too easy now…
My mother doesn't have a mobile phone, so my phone is her 2FA phone!
She phones me to ask for the code when she needs it....
Some banks allow you to set up a list of sites that you use frequently which means they don't ask for 2FA
I wish I had a single musical bone in my body 😫
Well I went over last night and they're doing it right - memorable name entered, code received on phone, code entered correctly - but for some reason the payment is failing. So they'll have to call CoOp and see what the issue is.
I paid with my CoOp card - same procedure and all fine. So dunno! 🤷♂️
POA and 2FA are not related, although by the sounds of it POA is going to come in handy trying to work out a solution
2FA is bloody annoying enough for people. We have it with a Sainsbury account that my wife is the account holder.
Sainsbury + Sainsbury Credit Card (joint names)- I can do the weekly shop up to about £70 without needing 2FA but then it requires her email address and a code sent to her phone. We rang Sainsbury at one point and asked if we could have the account setup as joint and they said no.
Amazon - We have prime and never have any issues (although account is in wifes name) I have ordered loads of stuff from my phone and it never asks for 2FA regardless of value.
Ocado cant comment.
My new-to-me iPhone 10 has face recognition, it’s a game changer for me (I am crap with tech).
Unless the face recognition stops working on your iphone (like mine has) then you realise just what a faff everything is.
…and keep having their account blocked – they then have to call bank but can’t hear on the phone and then get in a muddle!! Off to sort them out again after work! 🙂
Is there a basic bank account that they can use that doesn’t use 2FA. They just order from Sainsburys, Ocado and Amazon.
I know POA is the answer, but “there’s no need for that yet, we’re not going loopy”, is the stock reply. 😬
My parents don't have any internet banking apps (they have only just got smartphones and don't trust it - they may be the last people in the country still writing cheques!). They manage to use their debit and credit cards to buy stuff online. Not sure how long before 2FA gets forced on them but presumably if you don't have an app it will be a text message?
If they are (going deaf) the bank have an obligation to make reasonable adjustments for that - and most are very good at it.
POA is not the answer (it might be a good idea for many reasons) - the solution to the bank having processes which don't suit a demographic of customer is not for the customer to assign access to their financial affairs to someone in the correct demographic - its for the bank to adapt its processes to suit their (usually older) customer who doesn't need/want a smartphone.
Not sure how long before 2FA gets forced on them but presumably if you don’t have an app it will be a text message?
That's what our John Lewis CC uses...
its for the bank to adapt its processes to suit their (usually older) customer who doesn’t need/want a smartphone.
Can't see that really happening, life is moving towards needing a smart phone or just been excluded from so much stuff. Bit like refusing to use debit cards and insisting on paying by cheque for everything - never going to work for online shopping...
I wish I had a single musical bone in my body 😫
FFS.... Wrong thread 🤦🏻♂️
Echo the above comments about POA, get it while it is easy and cheap.
As for the 2FA, best of luck, I'm sure there is a solution out there somewhere but it is becoming increasingly more prevalent and unavoidable.
I've just thought,
Why is online shopping troubling their banking app at all? Can't they just add a debit / credit card / Paypal to Amazon et al? I get asked for MFA all the time on various things, but the only time my bank asks for confirmation codes is when I'm doing something new or unusual like sending money to a new payee.
From the moment of signing to having the POA in place took about 5 months which is pretty standard.
Sounds about right. IIRC, the gov website quotes 22 weeks.
Also,
There is a potential issue with some of the 'easy' MFA methods being suggested here. Tapping the notification or whatever is all well and good, but the whole point of MFA is to go "is this you?" so if they're of a mind to think "oh, it's prompting me, it must need something" and just automatically press it anyway when they haven't requested a transaction then they've probably just had their account compromised.
Tapping the notification or whatever is all well and good, but the whole point of MFA is to go “is this you?”
That method is open to MFA bombing where they just send 100s of requests until you hit "OK" to shut the phone up...
Why is online shopping troubling their banking app at all?
It just seems to be a CoOp think - mine asks for 2FA frequently time when buying online (apart from on Amazon which seems to defy all banking regs! 🙂 ).
Amazon – We have prime and never have any issues (although account is in wifes name) I have ordered loads of stuff from my phone and it never asks for 2FA regardless of value.
Off-topic… the reason for that is Amazon took a commercial decision to use the bare minimum required of any 2FA or other payment provider additional security measures and as a result they pay higher transaction fees, and have less fraud protection. Their premise is that they want the sale process to be as frictionless as possible because it results in more sales, and the profit from increased sales exceeds the extra costs of fraud and higher fees.
They do have their own version of 2FA for some high-value small form-factor sales, e.g. phones, as fraud prevention, where they ask you to give an additional code to the delivery driver.
My mother can't even manage SFA.
Everytime she gets here she complains that X,Y,Z websites won't accept her password anymore and can I fix it.
So I tap in the password and log in.
Following morning, "I can't get in again, it didn't recognise my password this morning." Tap tap tap. Log in.
She's absolutely in denial that the problem is her and refuses to do anything about it. It's always the fault of the technology.
Looking at the other thread, I can see that it's not an unusual attitude.
My mother can’t even manage SFA.Everytime she gets here she complains that X,Y,Z websites won’t accept her password anymore and can I fix it.
I had to set up Google Password Manager for my Mum.
She had a little book - tiny notebook thing - of passwords all carefully written down which lived in a small bag on the back of her favourite chair.
Sit down, open laptop, decide on a whim to buy something, get to the login page... Rummage around for book of passwords, find it, wander off to find her glasses so she could read said book, flick through to correct page, find password....
By the time she'd typed it in (one finger), the page would have timed out. Every time.
Now that I've set up GPM, it's seamless and I get no more calls about how she can't log in!
Apparently that's a security risk.
So I'm not allowed to