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BBC today -
“The motorist was given a caution “.
I suppose I’m not even surprised at this point. What exactly does a motorist have to do to be punished for assaulting a cyclist?
Common assault? First offence? Admitted it? I would expect a caution
Unfortunately the story doesn't say what he as charged with
Common assault? First offence? Admitted it? I would expect a caution
Is that really all you'd expect for assault?
I read this story from another source. cyclists were also in the wrong. No injuries were caused and yes a no injury adult assault I would expect a caution especially given the nature of the road rage where both sides at fault
@Aidy a common assault?
Yes
I am in the business and that is the disposal available for a guilty plea common assault with no relevant offending history
Not saying it's right
...but that's what we have
This one?
"As club secretary and a trained Ride Lead we’re meant to de-escalate any situations"
Putting your hands on someone's car is not going to de-escalate the situation, especially when they are already wound up.
@kato - does punching somebody whilst driving not count as driving without due care or dangerous driving?
Common assault? First offence? Admitted it? I would expect a caution
Yep, that's what the driver who assaulted me got.
I still can't figure out why people like the driver in this case think that their genitalia will grow as a result of aggression.
🤷♂️
does punching somebody whilst driving not count as driving without due care or dangerous driving?
You'd think so, especially as he actually ran down and injured the rider with the camera. But hey apparently that doesn't count:
"He also knocked my wife off her bike, the camera was hers and she suffered cuts and bruises but wasn’t considered part of the case as the police couldn’t actually see her."
BECAUSE THE POLICE COULDN'T ACTUALLY SEE HER, ARE YOU SERIOUS ffs the mind boggles
TJ - curious to read the other source? Because in that road.cc article the cyclists seem to have done nothing wrong at all, apart from the fact that he should've known that laying a finger on the precious car would be likely to result in something like that.
Funny the way some drivers go ballistic if you touch the side but have no compunction about ramming you with the front.
(Sorry, bit of a sore point from my own experiences!)
Some link on facebook. The driver close passed. the cyclists caught up with him or he stopped. they surrounded the car all shouting at him and one guy was holding on to the car. Thats not necessarily accurate but its the other side of the story and backed by pictures.
Basically a road rage incident escalated by both sides
lose / lose
He ran down the person with the camera - who was standing in front of the car blocking it from leaving while half a dozen cyclist harangued the driver - again just the view from the other side. My guess truth lies in the middle and both sides acted really badly.
Fair enough but I disagree with this bit:
He ran down the person with the camera – who was standing in front of the car blocking it from leaving while half a dozen cyclist harangued the driver
If there's someone in front of you, you stop.
If you're distracted by something out your side window, you stop.
A driver should never hit something right under his nose, it's driving without due care imo, end of story.
D'you know what makes me sad about this? I realised I'm mostly indifferent. Amazing what you can get used to. 🙁
Oh I agree - but the defense is easy to make " i was surrounded by several very angy cyclist banging on my stationary car and blocking me from leaving and I was scared so I gently nudged my way out of that scary situation"
Only devils advocate here
Oh I agree – but the defense is easy to make ” i was surrounded by several very angy cyclist banging on my stationary car and blocking me from leaving and I was scared so I gently nudged my way out of that scary situation”
Yes, the driver who assaulted me got out of his car to do it as he was scared of the fat middle aged bloke old enough to be his dad.
Goddamnit TJ, stop making sense. You did it in the bacon thread and you've done it again here.
I think if someone was bitch slapping me whilst simultaneously trying to drive over MrsRNP driving a Nissan Puke they deserve to be slowly bludgeoned to death with a Look cleated shoe followed by my fellow bike riding buddy's doing a "No! - I'm Spartacus" and us all getting away with it.
2 things I have learnt over the years of daily urban riding:
1) any incident let it spoil their day more than it spoils yours. don't get angry - laugh at them. ridiculous insults help " thrombus" ( medcalese for bloody clot) or " hope yer next craps a pineapple"
2) If the car stops then i am out of there quickly somewhere they cannot follow. don't get into confrontations. they never end well.
I have also done the odd "scare the driver" when they pull out on me - scream loudly and pull a stoppie that ends up with your face right by their window. Its funny to watch them shit themselves as a screaming man appears to be about to come thru the window
The video on the BBC site rather paints the cyclists as dicks and I'm assuming it's their video so edited in their favour. The pass at the start seems anything other than close, the car was clearly on the other side of road and a reasonable distance from the outer riders. The cyclists clearly surrounded the car to have a go, based on the video not sure what for, the video cuts before the woman ends up on the ground so we don't know what happened to cause her to fall off. Either the driver did something pretty out of order not captured on video or the cyclists caused a unwarranted altercation. There's enough dick drivers out there without cyclists getting in on the act.
slightly longer version
Goddamnit TJ, stop making sense.
Sorry *tugs forelock*
From Pistonheads
Ha I was wondering how long before that video was posted on here - its mates of mine and I'd often be in that group with them
The video didnt show the full story
The driver was held up for about a min through a twisty 30mph section
Driver overtook, beeped, then brake tested them in front suddenly as payback
Riders filtered and swerved round him
Chap went to ask the driver whats up, leans on window for balance, driver explodes, grabs him inside, punches rider
RIders wife was in front of car and is now being run over, as driver isnt really driving but trying to beat up cyclist alongside
Driver went nuts and blames cyclist for it all, even though the driver break tested them looking for a fight
That vid shows the cyclists in a really bad light. Just an unnecessary overtake - not dangerous just annoying. Happens daily
then they surround the car including someone attempting to block it in who then gets nudged and falls over
riders wife was not "run over" She tried to block a slowly moving car and was nudged. Stepping in front of a moving car deliberatly?
The cyclist who grabbed the car looked really aggressive and he escalated the situation
dorks like those cyclist really do not help at all. Utter prats
"Attempting to.block it in who then gets nudged over"
The turn of phrase you're actually looking for is "was intentionally run over"
We're having a really excellent couple of days of victim blaming on here aren't we! Next thing you know, it'll turn out that the driver is dyslexic and should be allowed to nick the riders wallets too
try watching it again. the car is moving and she stops in front of it - and is not " run over" at all just knocked down. Incredibly stupid thing to do. Why on earth would you try to stop a road rager by stepping in front of him? why on earth would you escalate it by grabbing his car while looking really belligerent and angry? No one comes out of this well and the cyclists are really stupid dorks for escalating it. I have no sympathy for them at all.
You do not counter aggression and stupidity with more aggression and stupidity
tj - stop digging the bloody hole you’re standing in, you’re starting to sound like the Daily Heil! What uggski has written is what happened, not what some jackass on Facebook is alleging happened. I saw the news article on BBC Points West, where they went into a lot of detail as to whether the cyclists were in the wrong for riding two abreast, etc.
The situation is the driver got pissy for being held up for a minute or so, then behaved in a reckless, irresponsible manner. Siding with a stupid driver and victim blaming? Really, I thought better of you than this.
If that’s how that driver behaves after being held up by a few cyclists on a short stretch of road, before being able to safely overtake, I shudder to think how he’d behave after being stuck behind a tractor and trailer doing 20mph for over six miles, which happened to me the other side of Warminster once - nowhere to overtake, and nowhere for the tractor driver to safely pull in to allow traffic to overtake; that halfwit in the Juke would have had a coronary!
Are we all watching the same video as TJ?
I don't think they ever call it a close pass, he overtakes, brake checks them, half the group swerves around him, lots of finger-pointing (both sides), grabbing (both), punching in the head (just the driver), throwing to the ground (just the driver) he then runs one of them over.
I am watching the same video - yes the driver was a twerp but they cyclists made it mush worse with their agressive reactions and the idiot who stood in front of a moving car?
everyone involved is a berk. Escalating confrontations like that never helps and who steps in front of a moving car?
See my post earlier. I have learnt in situations like that just tell them once and move away
the guy who leaned on the car is a particular idiot - very aggressive manner and excalated it.
I am not victim blamiong - I am telling you want I see
I see an idiot in a car road raging and a bunch of cyclists escalating it
Idiots the whole lot of them
Yep, just watched it again. I'll agree that how the cyclists responded wasn't 'ideal' in a perfect world sense (however had it been me then I'd have been a lot less restrained than the cyclists in the video)
I'm still only seeing the driver assaulting one cyclist and running over another though. Seems like the courts saw it that way too?
she was not "run over" she does not go under the car and why was she standing in front of it? very aggressive move to block the car in
2 things I have learnt over the years of daily urban riding:
1) any incident let it spoil their day more than it spoils yours. don’t get angry – laugh at them. ridiculous insults help ” thrombus” ( medcalese for bloody clot) or ” hope yer next craps a pineapple”
2) If the car stops then i am out of there quickly somewhere they cannot follow. don’t get into confrontations. they never end well.
Brake checking a cyclist or wheelchair user is attempting to cause death by dangerous driving, so they have a right to self defence
she was not “run over” she does not go under the car and why was she standing in front of it? very aggressive move to block the car in
She's not stood in front of it, she's slowed down (presumably because the car's just tried to force her to crash and there's now a commotion going on).
she was not “run over” she does not go under the car
That would appear to be her legs under the car.
Brake checking a cyclist or wheelchair user is attempting to cause death by dangerous driving, so they have a right to self defence
Even if there was a crime of attempting to cause death by dangerous driving you probably want to get some professional guidance on what self defence is in law before you get yourself in bother.
I’m still only seeing the driver assaulting one cyclist and running over another though. Seems like the courts saw it that way too?
It didn’t go to court. A caution is an alternative to prosecution.
tinas - would you have done either thing? stop in front of a road ragers car that is still moving or lean on the car and escalate things agressivly?
the car is moving and she stops in front of it
Doesn't look like that to me. Looks like she slows down to see what all the commotion is behind her. Probably drifts across a bit because she's looking over her shoulder.
– and is not ” run over” at all just knocked down.
There's no "just" about being hit by a 2 tonne vehicle.
I am in the business and that is the disposal available for a guilty plea common assault with no relevant offending history

Not saying it’s right…but that’s what we have
Wow, that's shocking. Good (but disappointing) to know.
Otoh, the driver who assaulted me was "very well dressed", so didn't even get that.
@uggski - do you know if they sought the views of the “victim” before deciding on the disposal? May be different approach N/S of border but I *think* up here the complainer would be consulted before any diversion from prosecution (at least for adult offenders). Given the backlogs in the courts avoiding being tied upon that for the next two years might not be a bad choice!
riders wife was not “run over” She tried to block a slowly moving car and was nudged. Stepping in front of a moving car deliberatly?
Well, one man's stepping in front of a moving car deliberately is another woman's turning round to see if that IS her husband being punched by the car driver. And here's the thing - stepping in front of a moving car deliberately does not justify being run over by a knife.
of course it does not - but its really really stupid to do
Why did the cyclist have to hold onto the car "for balance"?
Whiff of shite there tbh.
I'm with TJ on this, nobody comes out of this well and the whole thing could easily have been de-escalated. As for a brake check, I'll have to take that on faith since it wasn't filmed. Not saying it didn't happen but it's a very one sided view that's been presented.
What interests me is what isn't in the video.
1) If there were 8 riders that means that there were only 1 or 2 in front of the camera bike.
2) There's a comparatively long time between the car overtaking and the brake check - much longer than it would have taken to get past just the two riders in front of the camera bike.
3) The driver doesn't seem overly pissed as he overtakes.... Just a couple of beeps on the horn.
If the driver was in such a hurry that he was angry about being held up for a minute or two, why would he waste more time stopping to confront the riders when he was well past and gone?
My money is on one of the lead riders giving the driver the finger or suggesting he's a tosser.
This leads to the brake check which is usually a snap reaction to something and not something you think about doing for a minute while waiting to overtake.
The driver was clearly wrong in his actions, but the cyclists {as a group} brought this upon themselves.
And I'm with TJ.... The woman stopped in front of a slowly moving car - she wasn't "run over".
Shock horror, some drivers are dicks as are some entitled cyclists.
May be different approach N/S of border but I *think* up here the complainer would be consulted before any diversion from prosecution
When I was clipped by an overtaking driver who then chased me down, knocked me to the ground and punched me in the head a dozen times while I was tangled up in my bike the police told me "we can either tell him to write a letter saying he's sorry or we'll do nothing* because it's not like it's serious".
So there's "being consulted" and there's "being consulted".
*A conviction for assault probably would have caused him problems with his shotgun license!
If the driver was in such a hurry that he was angry about being held up for a minute or two, why would he waste more time stopping to confront the riders when he was well past and gone?
who knows but drivers do do this
The driver was clearly wrong in his actions, but the cyclists {as a group} brought this upon themselves.
I would not go quite as far - what the cyclists did IMO was to escalate it - the intitial actions were the drivers road rage but instead of deescalating this they cyclists actions made it worse.
The blame legally lies firmly with the driver - its just the cyclists could have easily avoided this becoming such an incident simply by taking the moral high ground or running away - instead they chose to confront the drive aggressively and that just makes it worse
Reflect on what happened and why and how to avoid it in future
I’m with TJ on this, nobody comes out of this well
True, but there’s “be a twit” and “be a twit while endangering people’s lives”. Not the same thing.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this. What put them in danger was surrounding the car and aggressively confronting the arse in the car escalating the situation. sitting behind the car and laughing at the drivers small willy would have meant much reduced danger and much less angst
Does seem the cyclists reaction escalated the situation and made things worse for themselves. Easily done in the heat of the moment.
The driver started it and also had the chance to deescalate it. But again, surrounded by a group of angry people, common sense can go out the window.
No one comes out of this well, you'd hope it would be used as an example to all sides in how not to behave and react.
Yes, when the driver who assaulted me got cautioned, I had over reacted to his initial bellendery.
Having seen the longer video now i concur the driver actually did cause a lot of this and and there was no reason, they'd stayed behind the pack and then overtaken appropriately. If they did beep and then brake check the cyclists then that was dick move. Cyclists escalated it, ideally they shouldn't have, that said going around him without saying anything would have been the smart move but he would have been behind them again and next time the driver may have done something more stupid.
To be honest it is frustrating being stuck behind a group, but then so is being stuck behind a tractor or pensioner site seeing, neither of those would warrant a brake check either.
They driver should have been given a lot more of a sanction for their behaviour.
I would not go quite as far – what the cyclists did IMO was to escalate it – the intitial actions were the drivers road rage
Yep, OK.
But the point I was trying to put was that I suspect a/the cyclists did something (other than not riding in single file) off camera to make him stop after he had gone past.
They then surrounded him....and the rest we know.
As for a brake check, I’ll have to take that on faith since it wasn’t filmed.
Yes, no evidence of actual brake check but how did the cyclists catch up with a car that had overtaken them going faster than they were?
The driver must have slowed down (even if not hard braked) for the cyclists to have caught up so why did the driver slow down in front of them?
If the cyclists reacted like that just because the driver overtook them (safely) that would be odd wouldn't it?
It took me nearly ten minutes to cross a main road yesterday when a tractor with more than a mile of traffic behind it trundled past at 6mph. Don't seem to recall anyone overtaking, standing on the anchors, and then punching the tractor driver.
Oh, wait, that's because a ****ing combine harvester leaves a big dent in the back of your car when it drives into you.
Maybe there was a cyclist in front of the (rear facing) camera who we couldn't see. Otherwise it was a perfectly fine overtake in that video.
Only thing that would've annoyed me was the BEEP BEEP BEEP as he went past. But then I would never ride in a group of teamshirt clad roadies like that, so can't put myself in that place.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this. What put them in danger was surrounding the car and aggressively confronting the arse in the car escalating the situation. sitting behind the car and laughing at the drivers small willy would have meant much reduced danger and much less angst
She wouldn't have been in danger had she not walked through the park at night, that was a bit silly. She could have worn sensible clothing rather than provoking the attacker by wearing a short skirt AND she'd also had a few alcoholic drinks. It wasn't really her fault, but she could've avoided it.
FFS TJ - yes the cyclists could have acted differently but stop victim-blaming!
its not victim blaming and the situations are not parallel.
The cyclists could have avoided the confrontation but instead chose to escalate it. there would have been no assault if the cyclists had not acted as they did.
I would have just sat behind the car obviously laughing at the driver and if he had got out of the car i would have ridden away
I sam NOT stating its the cyclists fault - thats victim blaming. What I am saying is the driver was clearly in the wrong but deescalating the situation would have been a much better approach that setting up an aggressive confrontation that would never end well
A few years ago I got into an altercation with a car driver that escalated to him chasing me round the streets in a rage trying to use his car as a weapon
I used my best deescalation techniquies r4ealising we had both ended up behaving like dicks. It ended with a handshake
With TJ on this - both sides have escalated this IMO. The driver appeared to give plenty of space during the pass but I'm guessing hooted in frustration at being held up then another cyclist responded off camera and it escalated from there. In the heat of the moment I wouldn't trust myself not to react - one of the reasons I hate road riding.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this.
Yes, they should've apologised for being on the road and slowing down a car. Someone should explain to them that they don't pay road tax so should yield to drivers that do. 🙄
Sorry, but if you're riding in a group and you get brake checked, you'd be very lucky to avoid a coliision amongst the group, which is obviously what the driver was trying to achieve...
By going around the car, you leave space for the group to react and slow down.
They haven't tried to set up an aggressive encounter, it's happened because of the drivers actions.
The driver who leaned on the car has aggressive body language ( all we can judge on) If he had stopped behind the car then no assault happens.
Jim - in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
All the cyclists had to do was stop behind the car.
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself. As for the lady getting run over - even if you agree she had stopped if the driver wasn’t so busy pulling/punching the cyclist he would have seen her!
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
1: touching the car is guaranteed to set the driver off
2: he aggressively confronted the driver.
Both avoidable and unneeded and both guaranteed to escalate the situation
Why escalate the situation? Why not descalate it?
He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
That right there is exactly what he did wrong.
It's like putting a foot in a front door if someone is trying to close it, or walking into your garage without permission.
Grabbing a wing mirror simply isn't on.. that would escalate the situation for me too.
Jim – in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
So, cyclist can't stop and rides into the back of a car, cyclist's fault, driver goes into back of cyclist also cyclist's fault.
Jim – in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
So, cyclist rides into the back of a car, cyclist's fault, driver goes into back of cyclist also cyclist's fault.
touching the car is guaranteed to set the driver off
Next time we'll know to just straight off punch him in the head through the window. Then just common assault caution. (or would that be different for a cyclist doing the assaulting, I wonder)
It's amazing how much anti-cycling there is on cycling forums.
Christ, this is a painful read.
Riding two abreast is legal, driver just took offence at having to wait for someone else's hobby and does something dangerous and illegal...and the cyclists are getting a pasting on here for being a bit miffed about it.
Yes, we can all be self-righteous about turning the other cheek etc, but if someone endangers your life, you have a right to be a little upset about it.
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
Okay this has to be trolling now.
On the off chance it's not, can you please explain why the cyclist had to use a moving car to balance themselves?
does something dangerous and illegal…
Could you point out the bit on the video where he does this before the cyclists mob him please?
Christ, this is a painful read.
Riding two abreast is legal, driver just took offence at having to wait for someone else’s hobby and does something dangerous and illegal…and the cyclists are getting a pasting on here for being a bit miffed about it.
Yes, we can all be self-righteous about turning the other cheek etc, but if someone endangers your life, you have a right to be a little upset about it.
100%
Gotta love the people trying to justify the driver's actions by saying how long he was 'held up' for.
Whenever some oaf takes my life into their hands to 'save' 30 seconds (or god forbid more than 60 seconds) I get quite miffed that my life isn't worth 60 seconds of their precious time.
I guess they must just be more important than me. 🤷♂️
Could you point out the bit on the video where he does this before the cyclists mob him please?
Inappropriate use of the horn (madam) ?
What Jim said was that because the cyclists were riding so close together they had to slow gently so not to crash into each other so had to pass the car and could not stop behind the car which i suggested as the sensible move
Nothing about going into the back of the car.
personally I see all chaingangs as dangerous riding. too close together for safety.
no one has tried to justify the drivers actions. Clearly wrong. However why then escalate it?
I used to get into confrontations like this often but then changed my tactics and no longer do. I still ride assertively and will tell a driver if they endanger me but I will not put myself at risk in the way these cyclists did.
What Jim said was that because the cyclists were riding so close together they had to slow gently so not to crash into each other so had to pass the car and could not stop behind the car which i suggested as the sensible move
But they were fine until the car overtook and immediately slowed/stopped in front of them...
For the record I 100% agree that escalating the situation is a bad idea and can make things worse, however that in no way makes any of what happened the cyclist's fault. Practically speaking yes sometimes people get annoyed and do silly things, it's normal if not ideal. Having a few choice words and touching a wing mirror is reasonable when you're annoyed. Hitting them and running them over is not.