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So I thought I'd start a new thread following my service price thread to discuss the durability of current shocks.
Rockshox use an aluminium damper shaft which is prone to scoring and they can't be bought separately. This has put me off buying another monarch though the 2 year warranty is very good.
I can't find much info on Fox shocks though and whether it's worth spending the extra?
Have you considered a coil shock? (Assuming your frame can use one) Less things to go wrong so generally more reliable and better performing, but heavier.
I haven't ruled it out.
What would you recommend?
It' a Whyte T130 in small so I guess the only real restriction is the overall size of the shock and I don't think there's enough space for a piggy back shock.
they aren't prone to scoring. if the shaft is scoring there is another issue at fault.
they aren’t prone to scoring. if the shaft is scoring there is another issue at fault.
So maybe it was from a bad batch? It was kept clean and there was no dirt inside.
Regular maintenance is the best one, that and good cleaning
It had regular maintenance and was kept clean. The scoring was on the damper shaft inside the shock. The shaft is aluminium so wondering if a shock with a steel damper shaft would be more durable?
Looking at coil shocks I quite like the spec of the CD DB Coil LL but have no experience with coil shocks at all.
coils are awesome - I have one on my suppressor
Replaced Monarch on my Mega with DB coil it's so much better, get the IL version if you're stuck for space to get the piggy back in.
Ill give TF Tuned a call tomorrow and ask them about the DB Coil on their site. I'd rather buy a shock from someone like them for the support and after sales. They said the scors on my Monarch's damper wasn't due to lack of service/dirt, and that the damper inside is aluminium so can happen as the frame flexes.
Are there any other coil shocks to consider that don't have a piggy back?
Anyone have any recommendations for a 216 x 63 shock? Really struggling to find something without a piggy back in the right length. Can go up to about £400 new.
you don't need a piggyback
cane creek IL coil in 216x63 is what I run on my suppressor
you don’t need a piggyback
I know. My point is i'm struggling to find anything else in the right size. Has your shock been reliable? And what did you mean about if the shaft is scorn there is another issue at fault? Its the damper shaft inside and not the main air shaft.
DB IL coil might be one of the few non-piggyback options, not many manufacturers sell 216x63 shocks without a piggy back. Have a T130 myself and recently had my Monarch replaced with a Monarch as SRAM dont make the standard Monarch in that size anymore. Fox make the DPS in that size but it’ll be over budget. Singletrack reviewed a DT Swiss shock on a T130 not long ago, might be worth checking out that review
Scored Monarchs are common at the moment, however Monarchs are also common at the moment.
Last 4 I have stripped for service all had scored shafts, 3 were within warranty and replaced.
I "think" yokes exasperate the issue by increasing side load. Metric shocks have increased bushing overlap.
Wear on one side of the shaft is common on Monarchs on Whytes.
Fox shocks seem better sealed, but would need to see some in long term use on the same bikes to say if it would resolve the issue.
Have you had a look for a new old stock float 216x63? I would be tempted to give a fox a shot if you are buying a new one anyway as the chances are a Monarch will do the same thing again in a similair timeframe.
Thanks for the replies. I've been looking for old stock shocks all day but not found anything.
I'm hoping the Monarchs just have a particularly soft material and other shocks don't.
The DT R414 could be a good option. Reviews look good and affordable too. I'm quite worried about finding something that will fit.
There are 216x63 fox shocks on ebay.de
Right, i've done a lot of research and the answer (I think) might be to use a shock mounted with a spherical bearing like the DT's so lateral forces are less likely to damage the shock due to frame flex.
The DT shocks do look nice. If they are not available I'm wondering if a spherical bearing could be installed into another shock, Rockshox, Fox etc?
Madison have the R414 in stock so most LBS' should be able to get hold of one within a few days.
I do know a few people who have changed their monarchs to cane creek IL C CS on their t13os with great affect and rave about them. Im looking at a replacement for my monarch plus on my 160 ,id like to change to the db cs air which according to TF will fit but I think it will be to tight.
If its a carbon T130 you can rule out coils as they wont clear the frame. I have seen them on larger alloy T130s but not sure about a small.
If side loads/twisting from the frame are breaking your damper, then you need new frame bearings before you start blaming the shock. The bridgeless seatstays make the more important on a T130 as bearing wear can introduce extra flex.
I've had scoring in the piggyback on my Monarch plus, but I assume that was due to a build error on my side and the part was easily replaced. Otherwise it has been very reliable and I really like the ML3 tune with a lighter oil on my t130. Plus you can pick them up for peanuts!
So maybe it was from a bad batch? It was kept clean and there was no dirt inside.
My riding buddy had a t130 and the shock failed dramatically with the shock ending up more parallel to the seat tube, collapsing the rear triangle and bringing the rear wheel in past the left side of the seat tube.
Rockshox took a look at the shock and said it had worn on one side before giving up the ghost. Whyte did nothing except charge him for a new shock and rear triangle...
My riding buddy had a t130 and the shock failed dramatically with the shock ending up more parallel to the seat tube, collapsing the rear triangle and bringing the rear wheel in past the left side of the seat tube.
Again, frame bearings (or a loose bolt) at fault here. This shouldn't be possible even with no shock fitted.
I'll double check the bearings. There's no play but still worth a strip and check. I still think the spherical bearings on the DT shock will really help though allowing the shock to move a bit more freely without flexing.
Ok, so just been talking to TF Tuned who have been really helpful so I'm very grateful to them. I asked about DT's spherical bearings to allow the shock to move as the frame flexes and they said it should help, but they said the DT shocks dont last and I'm better off going for something else. The only other new shocks that will fit are Fox or maybe Cane Creek.
They also said Rockshox use bushings that are so tight the shock has no room for lateral movement which can cause premature wear. So i'm looking for a solution for bushings that do allow some lateral movement and rotation of the shock. Ideally spherical bearings but cant find any that will come close to fitting a shocks eyelet. Or will Betd's hula hoops allow some movement?
Got my shock back yesterday so thought I'd have a look inside to see the damage. The scoring is only one hairline scratch on the damper shaft right up at the seal head. I couldn't even see it by eye but can feel it with a finger nail. And it' not really on one side, it's more the underside of the damper shaft when mounted. Appart from that the shock is in almost new condition so I'm wondering if the scratch has always been there from new and just work the seal between the air chamber and damper chamber?
Fro rear shocks - anything by fox just seems to work and work well (iv stopped servicing rear shocks) - they are always completely clean inside
Forks I prefer Rockshox
Had a bit of free time today due to work being closed so did a bit of testing with an image of a monarch plus printed dull size cut out to see if it would fit. Turns out it does! The compression lever might be a bit close to the downturn when in firm mode but I can always make a custom lever that's smaller.
Now I know I don' been a piggy back shock but my choices of shocks are limited due to the eye to eye length of 216. Is the Monarch plus likely to be the most reliable or is it still worth paying a little more for the Fox DPS factory?
I've got a Monarch Plus on my T130C RS, but only just got it as a warranty replacement as Rockshox don't produce the normal Monarch in 216x63mm size. Honestly I think it'll be a bit hit or miss, I've seen plenty that are fine but working in the trade I've also seen a few Monarch Plus's stuck down as well. Fingers crossed mine will be ok! Have also seen my fair share of Fox shock issues as well though, so you could punt for the Fox and still end up with a duff shock. I have read reviews that say the T130 doesn't feel as good with a Fox shock, it's overdamped and harsh, so would likely need a custom tune on top, further adding to the expense. As I say I've only had it one ride but my Monarch Plus with an ML tune seems pretty good, I know have suggested the ML3 tune which is the lightest Rockshox offer but either will likely do the job just fine.
I've got my Monarch Plus with some TF Tuned low-friction bushings and they seem to have noticeably less resistance, the standard Rockshox mount kits are shite as has been said elsewhere. Also worth bearing in mind that with a Monarch Plus on a large frame I can only use a 650mm water bottle, a 710ml Camelback bottle wouldn't clear the reservoir, so on a small frame you might not be able to fit a bottle at all with any piggy back shock.
I'd opt for the Fox DPS - not sure if it's still the case, but when I bought a brand new CTD shock which required a custom-tune, Mojo did it for only £45 as being brand new, no seals needed replacing so that could be an option for you?
Also TFT are bang-on with the advice on DT shocks - in my experience they're nothing but trouble plus no custom tuning options.
Thanks Iawman91. I definitely won't have space for a bottle but never use them anyway.
The Monarch plus does seem the safest option tune wise. My standard monarch felt great with an ML tune so I'm guessing the plus in the same tune will feel the same.
I'll most likely be getting the shock from TF Tuned so can always get a custom tune on the Fox. I didn't know about the Fox feeling overdamped and harsh.
Ah i ment LS tune Low rebound and Soft compression. My LBS has some old Fox DHX 5's going for £100 but don't know if they are as good as the Monarchs.
I have had some similar wear issues due to side loading, trying out some of these style bushes to see if they are more sympathetic to the shock https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/323091014735?chn=ps&adgroupid=53230614440&rlsatarget=pla-399663134520&abcId=1130086&adtype=pla&merchantid=115671648&poi=&googleloc=9045966&device=c&campaignid=1029029252&crdt=0
I have had some similar wear issues due to side loading
Where exactly was the wear? Mine turned out to be a single scratch on the 10mm damper shaft inside the shock.
Yeah it was some scoring on the shaft.
Hopefully the igus bushes add a bit of give in the assembly, time will tell.
I just can't decide if i should go for another Monarch (plus this time) or a Fox DPS. Either option would be tuned for my weight and frame before installing.
try a Manitou macleod
Anyone know if any of the Cane Creek shocks will fit a Whyte T130?
air can clearance you mean? looks like it should. let the air out and see how close the monarch aircan comes to the top tube.
Air can clearance should be fine. It's the adjustment dials and climb lever at the other end I'm worried about.
Spent most of yesterday reading up about both the Monarch Plus and CCDB inline. Off sick so nothing else to do.
The Monarch is a safe option as I know what the performance will be but will likely wear out after a year or 2 so I'll be relying o the warranty there. As for the CC, I've read mixxed reviews. Great performance but not reliable. But then I read the newer batch has been updated and might be more reliable.
Ahh I can't decide!
cheap RS spares ...
I got a complete replacement (excluding can for £100 for the kids bike)
Just looked £90 - 216x63
Thats really useful for future reference. I'm not sure where i would stand with any warranty claims though. Plus by the time ive got it tuned correctly it would be nearly as much as a new shock. Though i'm very tempted to get that and just use it as a spare.
Still looking for a new shock for now though, so either the Monarch Plus or CCDB Inline.
TBH if your linkage isn't tight you get wear.... which parts wears is the softest part.
If your bearings need replacing then the linkage loosens etc.
My T-130 has no issues...I've seen the shaft when doing a service. However I did buy another shock because I'm only 70kg and it was a ML3 tune (and t was £100 nearly new). The kids is still in default tune but its nice to know I have the spare as replacing his tiny 152mm one is like hens teeth. Ideally I'm thinking that I can swap them over and not be so rushed to get a full service... which is what I'm doing with mine at the moment... and when the next service is done send the other one and get it serviced and ML3 tune done at the same time.
The kids shock I'd planned on just the main part then randomly planet X were selling the aircan for £3.... so I've now got a brand new shock - he does have a small scratch but its holding pressure... if it never gets used I can sell it when he outgrows the bike or with the bike.
Which shock do you run? I couldn't see the wear during an air can service. I had to strip the damper to see the wear inside the shaft. On the outside the shock looks new.
I've not got round to checking the frame bearings yet but will do before fitting a new shock. I'd imaging if the quad link bearings have worn there will be a lot of lateral movement.
Can anyone comment on the reliability of Cane Crek shocks? Specifically the inline air shock with climb switch. I knkw they had issues early on but are the new versions more reliable? It's either that or a Monarch Plus.
All the Cane Creek IL air shocks we have sold have been totally reliable, the countless ones we have upgraded from Inlines to even just the new internals have also been faultless. We could lend you one to try if you were interested?
I would choose one over a RS shock every day of the week.
You'll read a lot of stories about them breaking if you have a look around. Anecdotally it does seem that certain frames have a bit of a reputation for killing them.
My personal experience is better. I had one on my old Banshee for two years, never serviced, never needed it. Great shock. That was the older version of the inline.
FWIW Cane Creek seem to have a reputation for backing up customers when things do go wrong.
I'd have another one if I needed a new shock and the price was right.
Thanks ehrob. I'll do a bit of measuring today to see if the CC will fit. If not I'll have to get the Monarch.
It'll be a bit weird if you end this lengthy thread about durable shocks by buying a Monarch.
I ended up going for the CCDB Inline from TF Tuned. Their help and support was excellent! Just installed the shock and it fits my small 2015 T130 perfectly. Not had a chance to ride yet as I need an adapter because my shock pumps screw on bit is too fat. First impression though is the build quality looks great.
I've heard the air can can be rotated like the Monarch. Is this true? I' like to rotate it so the air valve is at the bottom rather than side.
