[Closed] Lightweight canoe advice

SOtP is probably the best place to ask too.

What's the budget?

And if the pandemic hadn't got in the way, ou.

Algonquin trip was going to be in two of these.

Mmmmm, carbons.

sit on top?

We have one of these:

https://fatyak-kayaks.co.uk/product/fatyak-adventure-s-mahee-kayak/

roughly 10kg lighter than your canoe and you can paddle it solo if you like

great for general purpose pissing about

Speak to Craig @ Marsport and get a Northstar!

I have a Northstar Phoenix (solo canoe) which I love, best thing I have ever bought. Not cheap, in fact a ridiculous price but I have no regrets and only one back/spine so worth every penny to me.

I think it very unlikely you will have a bewildering choice right now. The industry is having a stock nightmare right now with the perfect storm of huge demand and a logistics crisis.

Normally I would suggest Nova Craft Tuff Stuff in something like a Bob Special but they are almost impossible to get right now.

Thanks everyone. Those Northstars are lovely, but our current canoe cost us something like £450 second hand, and I was thinking along those lines! The Mahee looks good - I'll investigate further.

I appreciate I may be asking for the moon on a stick, but the canoe we already have is great for our needs apart from the weight, which is a nuisance but manageable, so I can't justify spending a lot on this. We could of course sell ours on if we find a suitable replacement.

And thanks winston for your dose of realism...

I've got an Old Town fla****er, or stillwater or something. Think it's around 15 foot.

It's not too bad weight wise. I can carry it by myself just but obviously easier with help.

Anyone got any advice for some summer sea fishing out of a kayak?

I've got a nice river/white water tourer (dagger katana) but I'd like something to throw on the roof of the car in the evenings so I can go and do a couple of hours fishing in the summer.

Tarpon 120 would suit you or a Viking Profish 400.

In the current lack of supply and staycation marketplace you'll need luck to get a Coleman for that budget.

Heavier, own brand plastic boats are all selling very well. I've been looking for a neighbour and 15 year old ex outdoor centre boats are £3-400, better condition £500.

Anything Royalex is likely north of £700, good condition £800

The 'new' laminates boats I have not seen below £900-1000.

Properly light boats, made out of Kevlar/carbon/etc are all both as rare as hen's teeth and new prices well over £2k, often £3k.

We're going to swap our two ancient, battered, cracked ex-hire boats next year for a mrs_oab and I lighter thing - and I'm planning a new boat purchase and sit out the order time from Canada.

I just bought a 16ft Royalex for £850 and the seller had at least 3 other people clamouring to buy it before I could get there. I've seen "regular" boats like Old Town and Hou going for around that price on ebay over the past few months - see this list of boats recently sold on ebay *(using thr criteria I set to exclude stuff I didn't want). I think you either need to rethink your budget or your plans, sorry

edit - I recalled seeing Apache selling off something brand new on Facebook (it was prepped for whitewater and a bargain for what it was but more than I wanted to pay so I didn't buy it) so checked out their site. If you are usefaul at DIY, fancy a project and a brand new boat, worth considering?
http://apachecanoes.com/apache-e-kits

For canoes, weight and price are almost inversely proportional, so you won't find a lighter boat at the same price. However, the boat you have is more robust than you need. It would happily bounce down rocky rapids. A fibreglass composite boat would be lighter and entirely suitable for the water you're paddling on. Royalex would also work but you'll struggle to find one.

The secondhand market is crazy at the moment, everybody wants a boat and prices have risen (and since you have one you can sell that could work both ways for you). The new boat market is similar, imports are not helped by Brexit and the covid-driven shortage of shipping containers.

In your position I would consider a new UK-built composite boat. Something like the Apache Trekk, 31kg, £900, although you could reduce the cost (and the delivery time) by getting it as a kit to finish yourself.

If you feel up to it and have somewhere to do it, you could build a plywood canoe. Looks at the Self build forum on SOTP and see what's possible.

I wouldn't avoid SOTP - I've written the same thing here I would there!

Thanks for the further doses of realism everyone! Apologies for not being clearer about the budget - I'm fine with spending the sorts of sub-£1000 sums matt_oab and not mention, on the basis that I could recoup about half by selling the boat we have.

The section on weight at the bottom of this page on the Apache website is very helpful. The trouble on eBay is knowing what all those secondhand ones are likely to weigh...

I quite like the idea of self-build, but sadly just don't have the time. It looks as if we'll all just have to build up our arm muscles...

Stu, who owns and runs Apache, has a reputation for being extremely helpful, and willing to advise any potential customers who phone him (but don't email). He'll be rushed off his feet at the moment though.

This may or not be for you. I've never tried it but you can apparently make one quite easily. I saw one on the Thames on Sunday ace it looked better than i expected.

Costs and weight will depend on materials. But polyurethane and boil proof ply should be lighter than you have. Painting inside and out will save time but look less special

Loads of information about different options online

https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/plans/canoes/quick-canoe/

A fibreglass composite boat would be lighter and entirely suitable for the water you’re paddling on.

This.

Unless you can find a Royalex lite boat (v. rare, v. sought after) then nothing will be close to a grp/kevlar/carbon/innegra boat in weight. The extra stiffness (oo-er) will also help how it handles and speed on the water.

They are perfect for what you want.

We just wiped 90% of boats for sale off your 'maybe' list 😉

And the statement on the Apache site is correct in my view - weight on water is pretty irrelevant. Hoiking off the car roof though... I own 35kg and 38kg boats all up...

edit: That Keewaydin I posted a picture of is 17kgs 😎 - for a 17' boat! I was so looking forward to riding that beast around some Canadian lakes at speed...

That Keewaydin I posted a picture of is 17kgs 😎 – for a 17′ boat! I was so looking forward to riding that beast around some Canadian lakes at speed

Hope you can get there next year, Matt. I did exactly that in 2017 - beautiful boats to paddle, but not cheap even in Canada. Nobody in the UK hires out boats like that. We found it interesting that, since most people wouldn't travel from UK to Algonquin unless they were keen paddlers, the locals just go there anyway, so we were going significantly faster than most, which was useful if you saw somebody heading for the campsite you wanted!

Glad to see I was right to ask on here! I clearly have some homework ahead of me, but I am now at least dimly aware of the boundaries of my ignorance, and what I need to do to learn more... Many thanks for all the advice everyone, it is very much appreciated.

sit on top?

We have one of these:

https://fatyak-kayaks.co.uk/product/fatyak-adventure-s-mahee-kayak/

roughly 10kg lighter than your canoe and you can paddle it solo if you like

great for general purpose pissing about

Wondering (a) what you think of the fatyak - I have an RTM Disco and have considered adding a FatYak to the fleet. I can't get a feel for here in the stability-speed-fun venn diagram they fit. (b) if you or others think two singles is better than a double - I'm inclined to think that its better for solo, and (except for young kids etc) possibly better for two as well - as you if you capsize there's a second pair of hands to help. From the OP's perspective, it would also mean lifting two lighter loads rather than one big one.

From the OP’s perspective, it would also mean lifting two lighter loads rather than one big one.

At 26kg for the SOT it is actually heavier than majority of the grp/kevlar/innegra/carbon boats we are suggesting he researches, most of which will be around 20-22kg.

Alternative approach seeing as you already have a pretty decent canoe. Buy a folding canoe trolley to manoeuvre canoe about instead of carrying. Use Bungys for quick securing to trolley. Investigate tricks to load and unload the boat on your car.
Lots of videos on you-tube showing different approaches. Can then buy suitable kit to aid with loading as it’s a common problem.
Amongst my personal fleet of kayaks, my nicest boat is an old sea kayak which weighs nearly 30kg and is over 5m long. It’s really a two person job to load - not ideal as I normally solo paddle and have a dodgy back. After researching ideas I have honed a system using a spare Thule roof bar attached to the regular roof bars to allow me to lift and support one end of kayak at roof height before lifting the other end. With practice, especially parking suitably, it’s quite a quick process and pain free.
As others have said, otherwise you either need an expensive composite canoe or to build a plywood canoe which would be fine for flat water.

Strong, light, cheap, pick 2 ?

Strong, light, cheap, pick 2 ?

Strong & light won't be cheap, and strong & cheap won't be light, true so far.

But light and cheap doesn't really exist in a commercially available canoe.

Wondering (a) what you think of the fatyak – I have an RTM Disco and have considered adding a FatYak to the fleet. I can’t get a feel for here in the stability-speed-fun venn diagram they fit. (b) if you or others think two singles is better than a double – I’m inclined to think that its better for solo, and (except for young kids etc) possibly better for two as well – as you if you capsize there’s a second pair of hands to help. From the OP’s perspective, it would also mean lifting two lighter loads rather than one big one.

It's lovely for a shared mellow paddling experience. Tracks reasonably straight and quick enough with two paddling. Your disco looks like it's built to run straight and fast though. It's also a good platform for jumping off - you can always have one person in control of the boat and help haul you back in.

No question it's easier to load two small boats onto the car - you definitely need two people without one of the specialist roofracks

Improving on that Venture Ranger 14 without spending more than your proposed budget is a very tall order.

That looks a lovely boat.

I'd spend the cash on a hulivator or karitrek to help get in on the car.

Hullavators are horrible things. Very bulky and not  suitable for opens. I sell them but only reluctantly, to people with SUVs and fishing kayaks mainly. For opens I prefer a rear roller or maybe Slidebars.

A leftfield option for the OP might be a Gumotex Scout Standard.

I think it very unlikely you will have a bewildering choice right now. The industry is having a stock nightmare right now with the perfect storm of huge demand and a logistics crisis.

I know, just paid full whack for a new kayak. (Fusion 2).

Decided I’d rather that than 75-80% of new for a second hand one.

For opens I prefer a rear roller or maybe Slidebars

I have a rear roller, it's a good solution if you can get the rear bar near the back of the roof. A mate tried slidebars and didn't like them. A DiY idea on SOTP works well (scroll to post #10 by Big Al)

A leftfield option for the OP might be a Gumotex Scout Standard

They have an inflatable already.

You mentioned an inflatable decathlon job....but....

I was in Decathlon last year and they had a very rigid inflatable, not cheap mind (best part of a grand). They also do a 2 seat version.

Seemed pretty stiff, not like a normal inflatable job. I was tempted as I find my Bic SOT very heavy to get on roofrack...

Thanks again everyone!

Our Venture 14 is lovely, and manageable for me + one other to get on the roof of the car. The problem is if one of us wants to use it solo, or if my wife and daughter want to go out in it. It's the combination of size and weight making it unwieldy, not just the weight. Our Decathlon inflatable is easier to move around, but inflating and deflating it adds a barrier of faff each time it's used - not a lot, but enough to discourage spur of the moment trips.

It's a short drive to several places I can get very close to the river with the car, so carrying it to the water isn't the problem. What I'm really after is something that I can easily stick on the car and head off with if the weather is nice in the evening - either alone or with my wife or one of the kids - and be on the Thames within 10 minutes.

Thanks for that SOTP thread @Greybeard - really helpful, may give it a go! And in the meantime I'll keep looking for light and cheap 🙂

Can you not just keep the Decathlon one inflated and stick it on top for short journeys?

That's our current approach.  I do take the (electric 🙂 ) pump for a top up if needed but that doesn't take long at all.

p.s. do keep those decathlon zips rinsed with fresh water, possibly lubed as well -  we just had to replace the sliders on ours as they rotted quickly after sal****er paddles.

@leighz -

It’s lovely for a shared mellow paddling experience. Tracks reasonably straight and quick enough with two paddling. Your disco looks like it’s built to run straight and fast though. It’s also a good platform for jumping off – you can always have one person in control of the boat and help haul you back in.

thanks - it does paddle and track well, although I think it should have a skeg like a sea kayak - I'm a little too heavy for it, and its a bit too tippy (or I'm too crap) for jumping off type antics - yours certainly looks more stable! It has knee straps and my mate can roll it, but I don't have the skills for that!

Thanks @chaos. I've only ever carried the inflatable in the boot, but could give that a go. And thanks for the tip on the zips!

Thanks again for all the advice everyone. As a result I contacted Stu and ended up buying a really nice Apache 14 from him, and picked it up this morning. It's a fair bit lighter than my old plastic Venture, and I'm really looking forward to getting it out on the water.

Thank you again for all the advice! And many thanks to Stu, who gave me a great price on the canoe thanks to a minor cosmetic problem that I'm totally unbothered about.

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Lovely ! Nice colour. I have a MR Reflection in a similar colour.

Very nice, love it when people update threads with the outcome.

Happy paddling!

Mrs_oab has always wanted a sand coloured boat after I used to paddle one at work.

I'm looking for a hou 13 at the moment, 22kg but its a solo boat really. I'll happily buy new but having a job getting a demo of one

Edit: and now i'm looking at that 12' apache 18kg for the carbon and kevlar posh one, about the same price as the hou, or 20kg for the normal one which is £679, that looks a right bargain!