You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
When will Jeremy realise that he's at the end of the table?
While Len McCklusky was busy attaking the 7 for not delivering Brexit
Brexit was busy shutting down the Honda factory in Swindon
Isnt Len's jub to protect those workers, rather than helping the ERG with their wet dream of brexit?
Don't you be criticising Len, you traitorous Blairite scum!
You won't be laughing when his and Jeremy's post-Brexit socialist masterplan sees the glorious rebirth of a proper UK car industry!
Bloody totalitarian dictators and their loyalty pledges!!
Members of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords are required to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown before they take their seats in Parliament after a general election or by-election and after the death of the monarch. Any MP or Member of the House of Lords who objects to swearing an oath can make a solemn affirmation instead. This process is known as swearing in.
The form and manner of administering the oath are set out in the Oaths Act 1978.An MP takes the oath by holding the sacred text in his or her uplifted hand and says the words of the oath.
English wordingI (name of Member) swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.
The Act also permits the oath to be taken in the Scottish manner, with uplifted hand but not holding the sacred text. Members who want to do so may also take the oath as prescribed in the Promissory Oaths Act 1868, by kissing the book and using the words:
I (name of Member) do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.
I see. So your accusation is based upon what Corbyn may do or not do, rather than what he has done, i.e. follow party policy. Thanks for clearing that up.
My accusation is based on what he has done, he hasn't secured a general election, he deceived conference about his next step.
Q Does the party membership support a 2nd ref?
A Yes
Q Is Corbyn following the wishes of the party.
A No
Oh dear, democracy only when it agrees with him. He is a liar and a fraud.
And lets not forget whipping the party to vote against staying in a customs union, then pretending that he wants a custom union in his hypocritical letter to May. You know his actual actions rather than his lies.
Can someone confirm that Corbyn letter above is genuine?
This made me chuckle:
"Some of you who tuned in for this morning’s press conference – in which seven Labour MPs announced they would quit the party – might have heard a surprising commentary. “Between this and Brexit we are actually ****,” an unknown male voice could be heard saying as the even was broadcast live across the BBC Two and BBC News channels. “It’s going to be so divided … The Conservatives are going to win.”
A BBC spokesperson said: “Due to an error, we inadvertently broadcast some background comments from another microphone during our coverage of the press conference this morning. We apologised on air once we realised our mistake.”"
Q Does the party membership support a 2nd ref?
A YesQ Is Corbyn following the wishes of the party.
A No
I hadn't realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?
And lets not forget whipping the party to vote against staying in a customs union, then pretending that he wants a custom union in his hypocritical letter to May. You know his actual actions rather than his lies.
Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.
I hadn’t realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?
In other news there is no table.
Until he stands up and calls for a 2nd ref it's not on his agenda - it should be now.
Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.
True… he whipped them to abstain, not "vote against", and it was "the" Customs Union, not "a" Customs Union (the difference being that the former is defined, and exists, the second can be many things to many people… and may contain unicorns, up and 'till its rules need to be written down and agreed to.)
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/list-labour-remainers-rebelled-jeremy-corbyn-customs-union-vote/
I hadn’t realized that a second referendum had been taken off the table. When did this happen?
When the **** is he going to support a 2nd ref then? The first of ****ing april? maybe next year? He failed in a no confidence vote, then was the time.
Fake news: he did not whip the party to vote against a customs union.
You are Trump, and I claim my tangerine dream.
In other news there is no table.
Until he stands up and calls for a 2nd ref it’s not on his agenda – it should be now.
I would like Labour to campaign for continued membership of the EU, but as far as I can see, they're following agreed policy and their 2017 manifesto.
The list of Labour Remainers who rebelled against Jeremy Corbyn on customs union vote
You do realise that doesn't refute what I said? Corbyn did not whip his MPs to vote against a customs union.
You are Trump, and I claim my tangerine dream.
Instead of calling me names, substantiate your claim.
I shouldn't even have read this thread, never mind have foolishly tried to contribute, on today of all days. I'm out…
I would like Labour to campaign for continued membership of the EU, but as far as I can see, they’re following agreed policy and their 2017 manifesto.
But not conference - which he said he would follow? this is the time.
I shouldn’t even have read this thread, never mind have foolishly tried to contribute on today of all days. I’m out…
You ninja-edited your post after I quoted it, because you realized you were wrong. No need to flounce.
But not conference – which he said he would follow? this is the time.
I think that's what we're left with, agreed. I'm not enamoured with the idea of asking the public a question until we get the answer we want, but it's difficult to see how else we can progress. It's becoming clear that MPs (and the general public) are aligning themselves more closely with Brexit/ remain than they are with their political parties. I don't think anyone can predict what will happen with any degree of confidence.
I edited my post before yours appeared (for me).
Carry on with the "name calling" folks… I think he might well deserve it. Just a game playing troll.
I’m out…
Carry on with the “name calling” folks… I think he might well deserve it.
And the shortest-lived flounce in STW-history goes to...
I think that’s what we’re left with, agreed. I’m not enamoured with the idea of asking the public a question until we get the answer we want, but it’s difficult to see how else we can progress.
At this point we are asking them a 2nd question, quite different to the 1st. Given the decision that was made this is the deal on offer - do you accept that deal? If not we shall remain.
It’s becoming clear that MPs (and the general public) are aligning themselves more closely with Brexit/ remain than they are with their political parties.
It's been obvious from day 1 that brexit/eu are not party political questions - the hard left and right campaigning for opposite outcomes from the same decision showed that.
I don’t think anyone can predict what will happen with any degree of confidence.
Well given that pollsters have learnt from the past, had time to analyse the data and just about everything says the deal on offer gets very low support, no deal is low (and probably lower when it's actually explained) it's not that much of an unknown.
Something a bit more in depth than Monty Python pictures and fictional loyalty pledges
"What we are seeing isn’t the launch of a new politics, it’s the old one sailing off in a lifeboat."
At this point we are asking them a 2nd question, quite different to the 1st. Given the decision that was made this is the deal on offer – do you accept that deal? If not we shall remain.
Sure, but the referendum was a mandate to exit the EU without coming back to the public regarding the terms.
It’s been obvious from day 1 that brexit/eu are not party political questions – the hard left and right campaigning for opposite outcomes from the same decision showed that.
My thoughts were regarding the future of the Labour and Conservative parties; it's difficult to see how they go forward from here, given the implacable opposition of their internal factions.
Well given that pollsters have learnt from the past, had time to analyse the data and just about everything says the deal on offer gets very low support, no deal is low (and probably lower when it’s actually explained) it’s not that much of an unknown.
Likely true *if* there is a second referendum. My point was that there is very little certainty regarding that, an extension, May's deal, or no deal being what happens.
Sure, but the referendum was a mandate to exit the EU without coming back to the public regarding the terms.
find me that bit of paper that said that, regardless ploughing on with something that satisfies nobody because we said we would isn't good government.
Parties going forward - resolve the EU question "for a generation" never speak of it again.
My point was that there is very little certainty regarding that, an extension, May’s deal, or no deal being what happens.
EU don't want an extension unless something major will change and a serious outbreak of common sense in the UK. So it's May's Deal, No Deal or Remain - the three options parliament has open to them.
Anyway this is awfully like ground we have covered multiple times in the EU thread
find me that bit of paper that said that, regardless ploughing on with something that satisfies nobody because we said we would isn’t good government.
It may well not be good government, but neither was the decision to call the referendum in the first place, so no surprise there. The vote was to leave the EU, not "think about leaving the EU and ask later about exactly how we should do it".
Parties going forward – resolve the EU question “for a generation” never speak of it again.
I don't see how remaining or exiting resolve the question...
EU don’t want an extension unless something major will change and a serious outbreak of common sense in the UK. So it’s May’s Deal, No Deal or Remain – the three options parliament has open to them.
I would think that a second referendum or general election would persuade the EU to grant an extension. Or just maybe they'll take the view that we're more trouble than we're worth, as remaining will continue the status quo of hostility that has been the hallmark of our relationship with Europe.
Anyway this is awfully like ground we have covered multiple times in the EU thread
Err yes, good point.
Do I need to put on google safesearch before I look up who “Mike Gapes” is?
Not a great choice of wording there by Jeremy, but that clearly distorts the message he was giving.
He needs to go, but FFS make it about what he has or hasn't done.
Sounds like a nice smooth zero-conflict PLP meeting. Unity.
He needs to go, but FFS make it about what he has or hasn’t done.
In a world where the (disgraced) serial adulterer former foreign sec can be openly racist, various Tory backbenchers run anti immigrant tirades, the Home Office be deporting people because the government lost their papers and heaps more while we are steered to a hard brexit at the wishes of a tiny minority we are all told the biggest thing to fear is the liberal left wing EU loving media...
Aye, that’s right mike. All those things and they still lost.
Well if most of the comments, twitter links etc. had been made by cabinet ministers it would hardly make the news.
The bigger part of "they lost" is how much did we all loose.
I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory's welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled. I think they probably made the correct decision today
I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory’s welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled.
That's because Labour whipped to abstain on that bill. These MPs were following the party line when voting. They were loyal. Only 48 voted against. 184 (including these 7) abstained, or "failed to vote against", as per the (rather odd it seemed to me at the time) party line.
I read somewhere tonight that all 7 of the MPs who walked out of labour failed to vote against the tory’s welfare bill which has impoverished so many people and persecuted the disabled. I think they probably made the correct decision today
If there’s one thing for sure, the Labour Party is going to swoop into power on a diet of fresh hatred and abuse every day. It’s worked so well for the leadership so far.
You know the thing is, I reckon 2 or 3 of the splitter scumbags never believed in Corbyn, right from the very beginning whereas a much bigger chunk (myself included) were happy to give him a chance, even after the PLP vote of no confidence and subsequent re-election.
Thing is, whatever you think of their politics, it’s looking like they were right not to believe in him. We are no closer to the left wing (pick your own personal moh scale value of hardness) government the country needs. Despite deluded (some would say, “tricked”) remainers putting their hopes in a labour government at the last minute in 2017, he still couldn’t lead his party to victory over the worst Tory campaign in recent history.
We can argue whether they split or stay all day - there are valid reasons to take either course of action. But you can’t deny that the leadership of the party is failing. Parties do not split under competent leadership. Criticism of Corbyn does not equate to an outright rejection of his policies. I agree with most of the manifesto, a few things I might not be happy with but hey, trade-offs and compromise. He has many talents on the back benches. That he, MacDonnell, Thornberry, Milne, Smith and Lansman choose not to use them is their failing. There are a lot of minds to change with Scotland lost but he’s not changing any of them anytime soon. He should go. He won’t, not yet, but he should.
Meanwhile, Derek Hatton is back in the party.
I’m seeing tweets about a possible 5 more Labour MPs who might be joining them soon, as in, as early as tomorrow morning. Also rumours that meetings are being held with centric Tories to join and SNP / LibDem MPs about a possible coalition.
Berger will be booted out by liverpool voters at the first opportunity. No doubt because all scousers are anti-semites.
First a terrorist supporter, then a racist, now a totalitarian. Have you been reading the sun recently?
Both lines typed by the same person. DazH, only one Sun reader there lad.
But you can’t deny that the leadership of the party is failing.
I think that's a little simplistic. On the face of it that's true, but it would have taken a truly incredible leader to hold the party together in these circumstances, even if it's possible at all. How can leavers and remainers reconcile? The country is properly fractured to a historic extent. How can parties [i]not[/i] split under those circumstances. Maybe they need to?
Maybe they should.
Chukka and his mob took the initiative, they could form New Labour. Benefit being people know exactly what they are voting for, they could even get a charismatic remain friendly figurehead.
Meanwhile Tory remainers could remain, as per status quo, as the Conservatives whilst the leavers take the Unionist banner.
they could even get a charismatic remain friendly figurehead.
Rumour has it they were trying to poach Ruth Davidson.
Rumour has it they were trying to poach Ruth Davidson
Must've been a fair size of pan.
Having a remain figurehead maybe a bit too late as the UK will have left the EU so remain/leave become things of the past.
In reality they won't be all that different from Labour policies, neither are the Greens, neither are SNP and even the Lib Dems are not really that different. So everyone against the Tories then but now splitting the anti tory vote across 3 or 4 parties, i.e tories in forever.
Not just Derek Hatton back, George Galloway is being welcomed back in to the fold too
Welcome to 1981 folks!
Welcome to 1981 folks!
At least the pictures you post will be more relevant.
George Galloway is being welcomed back in to the fold too
You really need to improve your reading materials. Someone saying they should be admitted isnt the same as them being so. Like a pledge to a party not being a pledge to a "glorious leader"
Are you signing up for the funny tinge party?
Be careful since in their already fine tradition of open ethics currently donations are going to a private company.
Although in fairness they have already managed to reduce racism in the Labour party.
13 MPs lost since the 2017 election.
Be careful since in their already fine tradition of open ethics currently donations are going to a private company.
Err, no - see my previous post.
Not just Derek Hatton back, George Galloway is being welcomed back in to the fold too
In many ways I rate George Galloway, he's a sharp cookie. I'd forgotten why/how he left the labour party and checked on Wikipedia:
In 2003, Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party, having been found guilty by the party's national constitutional committee of four of the five charges of bringing the party into disrepute,[2] including having called on Arabs to fight British troops
....I remember why Hatton went but a quick reminder for anyone who's forgotten, again from wikipedia:
Hatton was expelled from the Labour Party in 1986 for belonging to Militant which had earlier been found to be in breach of the Labour Party's constitution. Hatton argued that Militant was a legitimate Marxist tendency within the Labour Party, but the National Executive Committee voted to expel him by 12 votes to 6.
I wonder how popular those CVs will be with floating voters?
So everyone against the Tories then but now splitting the anti tory vote across 3 or 4 parties, i.e tories in forever.
Before these 7 resignations Corbyn/Momentum couldn't beat the worst Government in living memory after years of austerity and in a time when the economy has/had failed to pick up despite nearly a decade of monetary stimulus. ...and while they're presiding over the utter chaos of Brexit. With any sane opposition the current government would be unelectable. So a more credible viewpoint is that an unelectable fanatical group have taken over Labour, denying the core Labour vote to anyone who could win. If Momentum hadn't taken over Labour the Torys would already be out because the only thing with greater election losing prowess than May is Corbyn and Momentum.
BLASPHEMER!!!
It'll be off to the gulag for you comrade, come the glorious socialist day of reckoning!
Err, no – see my previous post.
err the quote you provide supports the fact it is a company.
Which also shows how utterly halfarsed they currently are. Asking for donations but not actually forming a party and being a tad vague on their plans to do so.
I mean, come on, Labour would never repeat the same mistakes they made in the past would they?
https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1097590308005650433?s=21
The terminally deluded who think that Jezza's socialist revolution is just around the corner should probably give this a read...
@dissonance whereas your statement implies something shady. They are quite open about the "company" being the most convenient temporary mechanism to handle donations in an open manner. I've no bias towards or against the seven. As for forming a new party, it might just be that they don't know, nothing wrong with that, eminently sensible really as they aren't making promises they might not end up keeping.
As for Corbyn - he's as incompetent as I would be in that role.
whereas your statement implies something shady.
So who are these funds going to and for what? What happens to those funds if they dont form a party. How are those funds going to be audited?
Bearing in mind some news which was lost yesterday was the report into facebook and the dubious funding strategies I would have thought they would be going for whiter than white rather than "convenient".
It is also rather inaccurate to claim that they have been open about it. Read the website.
You need to go down to the smallprint and "The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A Ltd a company limited by guarantee. ". The "openness" came when specifically called on it.
You've conveniently ignored the word "temporary", which since in a previous post you described the seven MPs as "scum" is hardly surprising. What do you want them to do? State that Miss Jones is heading down to WH Smith to spend £2.97 on a packet of biros?
Gavin Shuker was asked about it and he was open and explicit about the "company" and the reasons behind it. On the basis that he and the other six wanted to make an impact with their leaving the Labour party they were hardly likely to head down to the electoral commission and ask for the paperwork. A registered company has to supply audited accounts BTW.
Dissonance dissonance in full effect again. Anyway … companies … opaqueness … etc …
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/inside-the-complex-snarl-of-companies-which-control-the-pro
described the seven MPs as “scum”
Surely not.
You’ve conveniently ignored the word “temporary
No I havent. I just dont consider it relevant.
which since in a previous post you described the seven MPs as “scum”
No I ****ing havent! So try again.
Gavin Shuker was asked about it and he was open and explicit about the “company” and the reasons behind it
Here is a hint. When you want to be open you dont wait to be asked about it. You state it loudly and clearly. So again. Go and look at the website and see where it states that its going to a company.
Preferably try paying a bit more attention though than you did with your accusations against me.
Oh dear Corbyn, McCkluskey & the other Lexiters really have ballsed up.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19
That all depends on whether you were ever serious about being elected and governing in the first place
Much easier to sit back and wave your placards, while letting the opposition get on with policies you broadly agree with but are too cowardly to say so, in case the terminally gullible stop singing your name at festivals
That all depends on whether you were ever serious about being elected and governing in the first place
The MPs who just formed the funny tinged company certainly aren't. It's nothing better than a dirty protest.
Erm... ok
Not a reflection of exasperation felt by many who feel politically abandoned between the juvenile 6th form-ism of Corbyns labour party and the angry gammon pensioner-ism of the Tory party then?
When you want to be open you dont wait to be asked about it.
And then lie about it? Momentum style? Check my link about the companies used to set up and facilitate Momentum.
juvenile 6th form-ism
Yeah, you can tell they are 6 formers by the monty python references.
Not a great choice of wording there by Jeremy, but that clearly distorts the message he was giving.
more than not just a great choice as he said that they 'choose' that lifestyle a number of times, so clearly that is what he believes, not that they were born into it.
Not a reflection of exasperation felt by many who feel politically abandoned between the juvenile 6th form-ism of Corbyns labour party and the angry gammon pensioner-ism of the Tory party then?
You are absolutely the last person who should be criticizing people for juvenile behaviour. I don't suppose it's occurred to you that many felt abandoned by Labour for years, but recognized that the movement was bigger than the leader we happened to disagree with.
If the funny tinged cohort actually form a party, produce a manifesto, and seek election then I would have some respect for them. As it is, all they're doing is taking their ball home.
Corbyn, McCkluskey & the other Lexiters really have ballsed up.
Not exactly overwhelming numbers for them is it? Although would probably be enough to let the ERG rule the roost.
Which does beg the question why they decided now. Last year I can understand but now?
As for the Lexiteers not being happy. The righteers are very happy about it with Hunt using it as a reason to argue why the hard right should be listened to.
Might be different if some tories jump ship but it could well be counterproductive and put the maybot even more under the sway of the ERG.
And then lie about it? Momentum style?
Good attempt at whataboutery. Personally I dont like Momentum either but lets stick to the subject at hand which is this new party/maybe a movement/maybe something else.
Not a good start given it was done on the same day as a major report onto just how troublesome opaque funding has been for facebook ads.
I dont like Momentum either but lets stick to the subject at hand which is this new party/maybe a movement/maybe something else.
Momentum is Labour's problem. The thread is about Labour's problem.
7 resignations is *far* less of a problem than Momentum. And if it does grow into a party it will be a problem for all the parties, not just Labour.
So the subject at hand is Momentum: Why don't you like them?
Most importantly though, why isn't there a Downfall meme about yesterday? 🙁
Downfall memes stopped being funny last time there was a Labour government.
By the next time we get a Labour government they will have made it firmly into the 'vintage comedy gold' category, much as we view Laurel and Hardy these days.
Did Binners switch to reading the Daily Mail? Has anyone actually seen a picture of Jeremy Corbyn's magic "Stop Brexit" button? Is there something I'm missing in seven MPs leaving Labour, supposedly over racism, then one of them immediately saying something racist on the telly?
I've not looked in any of the politics threads for a few years. Can anyone give me a quick recap?
I think one thing that surprises me more than anything in this tale. The people here, on S'Media and within the Labour Party who are shouting traitor to the MPs who've left and anyone who dares to suggest they agree with them, or even understand why they did it are shouting at Labour voters, or former Labour voters anyway.
This sums up Momentum to me, they're so absolutely sure that they're right, that they don't seem to care about how many of their allies they alienate to preserve the purity of their cause.
I'll never vote for Labour again under the current leadership, it's not bitterness, but I'm absolutely sure they don't have my interests at heart, nor offer a credible plan that would make the UK better over-all.
When was the last time we had a 'true' socialist Goverment? Not under Blair or Brown that's for sure, Callaghan, Wilson and Attlee were more centric than Corbyn.
JC will never be prime minister, than that's what's playing into Tory hands, not 7 MPs who are trying to drag us back from the brink of Brexit.
That lovable old Champagne Trotskyite Degsy is just about to be interviewed on Five Live to tell us all how welcome he feels back in Corbyns labour party
Thats sure to win those swing voters in marginal seats over, eh?
FFS! No wonder they're all for Brexit on the Labour Front Bench. They're turned shooting themselves in the foot into an artform
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">As Derek Hatton returns to the Labour Party, here is Neil Kinnock taking on the Militant Tendency in Bournemouth, 1985<br><br>"I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises..." pic.twitter.com/trW9ebG1o7</p>— Tides Of History (@labour_history) February 18, 2019
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Not a reflection of exasperation felt by many who feel politically abandoned between the juvenile 6th form-ism of Corbyns labour party and the angry gammon pensioner-ism of the Tory party then?
You summed up my feelings quite nicely there Binners.
I don't delve into the political threads on STW very often but i was interested to see if much frothing was happening about this action.
It feels a bit too late for anything meaningful to happen unfortunately, but it would be nice to have a credible centrist option for once
Hatton's back, so I'm out.
He's a horrible bloke. I don't want to be a member of a party he's involved in.