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how the hell has the Labour Party managed to get itself into such a mess about anti semetism?
On a side note the Arron Banks Alistair Campbell twitter confrontations are getting ugly
Because they have got tied up with arguing over terminology rather than principles.
Problem is simple. One side is oppressing another, is it wrong? Is it wrong if the oppressed side retaliates?
Its all bogus. Its the next stage in the attacks on corbyn. Its a " have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question
first they tried to label him a communist. It didn't stick. Then they tried to label him a terrorist. It didn't stick so now this.
Yes there may be a little antisemitism in the labour party but its nothing compared to the outright racism in the tory party and how much do you hear of that? any anti semitism also predates Corbyn
Its also partly being done as labour often criticises Israel and many want to see anti Israel = anti Semitism and this is also a part of that campaign to make politicians afraid of criticising Israel
Because the press tell you they have.
There's still a Labour party? Who knew!
Are nothing compared to the problems in the Conservative party....
BUT
vested interests decide what makes the news and what doesn’t
I think fatoldgit and Drac have it
A bit of an anti islamic thing did come up a few months back in the Tory party but it was quickly buried never to be seen again. The fact that the tory party is worse doesn't really help though.
Corbyn is simply not good at dealing with press and image. You sometimes have to do things to stop issues getting out of hand or continuing even if you know they won't make any difference as there really isn't much of a problem anyway. Just at least look as though you are tackling it and have a plan and it will go away. It is not as though there are actually any measures to prove otherwise.
He makes it too easy for the right wing to keep on beating him over the head.
Unfortunately the subtleties of the can't say bad stuff about Israel are going to be lost on most people who just see the headlines.
On the subject of which I heard about the following on R4 this morning:
I'm not convinced. McDonnell and Corby are very much in this together, I really doubt there's a significant difference of opinion between them. Moreover some kind of action seems appropriate if she behaved aggressively/swore at Corbyn.
Personally, I think the biggest travesty of the whole anti-semitism issue was Ken Livingstone. What he said wasn't remotely anti-semitic or even untrue. (Mind you it was a deeply unhelpful thing to say at that point in time, which might have been the real reason Labour went for him.)
I heard this on R4 this morning
On Today, I assume, which has been acting as mouthpiece for anti-Corbyn Jews for months now. For all the coverage they give the issue, they still have yet to explain the IHRA thing, content just to sling mud on behalf of their Tory paymasters.
tjagain - Its all bogus.
Utter and complete rubbish!
Didn't Corbyn admit there is anti semitism in the Labour party? I do think that the right wing press has seized the opportunity to smear Corbyn but he isn't helping himself or the party. If 60 odd Rabbis, various groups and the Jewish community have raised concerns then its not all driven by the Mail & Co.
I can't believe that people are suggesting that because the Conservatives have racism within their party that it should mean that Labour are OK with their racist elements. Doesn't that allow the Conservatives to say that UKIP should deal with their racists before the Conservatives should?
Maybe some of you need to have a think a bit more about your comments.
I can’t believe that people are suggesting that because the Conservatives have racism within their party that it should mean that Labour are OK with their racist elements.
No one did. You need to think about your comment.
As someone who has just resigned from the party because the rising ant-Semitism disgusts me, the far left have always had an issue but to see it become mainstream has scunnered me, Labour will not get my vote till Corbyn and his fellow travellers are gone
As someone who has just resigned from the party because the rising ant-Semitism disgusts me
Does anyone have an actual reasonable and factual link to what is being alleged?
piha
It is bogus. read my post. Its all about establishment / right wing press attacks on Corbyn.
Yes there may be some anti semitism in labour although given the number of jewish mps and jewish organisations in the labour party I doubt it is much
However its completely obvious that this is being weaponised to damage corbyn in a co ordinated series of attacks. Di d you even realise that the labour party had an investigation and then set out a very strong policy on this?
the reason those far rightgroups are going after Corbyn is not anti semitism. Its about labour critism of Israel.
Williamnot - any concrete examples? You must have some given your resignation.
@ Drac - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44957906 The 3 main Jewish papers unite on their front pages. Obviously as you claim "Because the press tell you they have". How many copies do the 3 papers sell each month and are you a regular buyer of the publications?
Owen Jones tweeted today regarding Peter Willsman, secretary of the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy and is seeking re-election to the NEC - "I won't vote for someone who undermines the struggle against the disgusting disease of anti-Semitism".
Corbyn and his fellow travellers
Corbyns a pikey???
How many copies do the 3 papers sell each month and are you a regular buyer of the publications?
I buy zero I've no idea how many they sell. Not sure why that's relevant.
Williamnot – any concrete examples?
I rather feel I'm taking bait here, but there are some here if you really are genuinely looking for examples:
https://twitter.com/JewishLabour
Specifically the one that mentions Goldman Sachs and the one the denies the holocaust. I didn't look any further.
plenty of anecdotal evidence in my own CLP of moonhowlers who think mossad are behind everything gaining more and more power. I saw minutes of Birkenhead CLP where they rejected diversity training with the Jewish Labour Group because of "possible links with ISIS and the Israeli government"
The very fact that the NEC is willing to die in a ditch to protect their pals rights to compare Israel to the Nazis is pretty damning evidence in itself
@ TJ - Large parts of the Jewish community have voiced their concerns and many of them have been Labour supporters. Or is it as you insist - "Its all about establishment / right wing press".
If it was any other minority community and political party, I wonder if the comments would be the supportive of the political party. And for the record I'm no supporter of either of the main political parties.
piha - and large parts of the jewish community work happily with labour. You need to look at who is doing the shouting and question their motives. Jewish mo0derates have been very scathing in their Briticism of the far right jewish groups pushing this idea.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43624231
etc etc
Can I just check there the issue is about the line "Jewish Trump Fanatics" Is that right?
Or is there a lot more going on - I saw some idiots emailing stuff around but it doesn't look like the massive issue it is being claimed to be.
It does correlate that the support for Gaza and Palestine is getting right up their noses though
That the Labour Party is spending months debating the semantics of a definition of anti-semitism yet hasn’t bothered to put together a coherent position on Brexit tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn
A sixth form protest group, at best. Certainly not anything remotely resembling an opposition
*sits back and awaits TJ telling me that this, like everything else, is a ‘Blairite’ plot against the glorious leader*
@ Drac - "Because the press tell you they have".
Even the Chakrabati Report suggested there was some anti semitism.
Even Jeremy Corbyn in his anti semitism statement states We have taken decisive action over allegations of anti-semitism since I became leader, suspending all those involved from membership
Even Baroness Royall found that Labour finds that members of the Oxford University Labour Club (OULC) did engage in antisemitic acts and some Jewish members do not feel comfortable attending the [OULC] meetings, let alone participating.
Even a cross-party Select Committee on antisemitism called on Corbyn, Chakrabati and Livingstone, amongst others to give evidence in a separate, wider investigation of anti-semitism. The Select Committee's report described the Chakrabati Inquiry as "compromised" and criticised the Labour party's handling of anti-Semitism.
And all of the above proves the press told them to? I won't add the various MPs, Jewish groups and representatives that have raised concerns too.
Nope Binners - its a right wing attempt to discredit him that is sticking. Unlike the previous attempts to label him a communist and a terrorist that didn't.
It is so obvious that this is what is happening.
Piha - read the piece from the independent
Even the Chakrabati Report suggested there was some anti semitism.
To be clear I'm not saying it hasn't existed in the party with some members I'm referring to the claims it's a mess when in fact it is being dealt with.
Even Jeremy Corbyn in his anti semitism statement states We have taken decisive action over allegations of anti-semitism since I became leader, suspending all those involved from membership
There you go.
That the Labour Party is spending months debating the semantics of a definition of anti-semitism yet hasn’t bothered to put together a coherent position on Brexit tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn
This.
I couldn't really give a toss about Judaism , Islam, CoS, CoE or any of the other fairy tale flat earthers, when there are actual real issues to be addressed.
It is bogus. read my post. Its all about establishment / right wing press attacks on Corbyn.
Basically as the Conservative Party / Brexit unravel it becomes apparent that Labour might get in power, so the Establishment does whatever it can to thwart this. Their current strategy is anti-Semitism, which I really can't see being taken that seriously by the majority of the country. Seems like a complete storm in a tea cup to me.
Even the Chakrabati Report suggested there was some anti semitism.
All political parties have some racist / slightly racist members - just look at the Tories and the anti-Muslim rhetoric. You'll never eradicate it all, just like you'll never have a totally crime free society.
Can I just check there the issue is about the line “Jewish Trump Fanatics” Is that right?
I don't know, but listening to the recording of the whole thing in context and the tone he said it in did sound mildly iffy to me. In contrast what Ken Livingstone said seemed completely reasonable to me and he ended up having to leave the party!
That the Labour Party is spending months debating the semantics of a definition of anti-semitism yet hasn’t bothered to put together a coherent position on Brexit tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn
This. It's fiddling while Rome burns. Although now you mention it maybe it's a deliberate strategy to divert attention away from the fact that Labour are as hamstrung as the government about a Brexit strategy. I don't anti-Semitism will cos them many votes among their core voters. In contrast Brexit could theoretically cost them half their support whatever they do.
No the party doesn’t have a anti semetism problem, Corbyn isn’t a Brexit favouring protectionist, Momentum isn’t a nasty hard left group who will try to destroy anyone who tries to highlight that.
#fakenews
@ Drac
And Labour didn't quite take the decisive action with Ken Livingstone that they should have. Maybe the press told them what action they should take.........
Do you still think this is all down to the Press?
I don't think Corbyn is anti semitic but due to his long held views on Isreal/Jewish State/Palestine, I think he struggles to deal with the issues that the current anti semitism issues present for Labour. This frustrates the Jewish community and gives fuel to his opponents.
@ tjagain - "You need to look at who is doing the shouting".......Jewdas and Michael Segalov.....!!!!!
I quite enjoy reading Jewdas - https://www.jewdas.org/68-jewish-rabbits-from-across-uk-gardens-sign-unprecedented-letter-supporting-labours-antisemitism-definition/
Grrrrrr, why can't I get the quote function to work!
I don’t think anti-Semitism will cost them many votes among their core voters.
Yep, I really can't see it being a big thing outside the Westminster media bubble..
The Select Committee’s report described the Chakrabati Inquiry as “compromised” and criticised the Labour party’s handling of anti-Semitism.
It is worth paying attention to what they said about some of the other political parties. For some reason though that gets skipped over.
Its odd how there were no headlines about the Maybot lying about the tory code of conduct and claiming it including the IHRA definition (plus all the additional bits) when in fact it didnt mention antisemitism at all.
No the party doesn’t have a anti semetism problem, Corbyn isn’t a Brexit favouring protectionist, Momentum isn’t a nasty hard left group who will try to destroy anyone who tries to highlight that.
When you put it like that of all the problems Labour have right now, anti-semitism is the one with least evidence and least electorally damaging. I'm starting to seriously suspect they're deliberately drip feeding it into the news.
If they hadn't had a pop at Rabbis today they'd be answering questions on Brexit/Momentum/their dismal polls against the worst government in living memory.
Do you still think this is all down to the Press?
I never claimed it was all down the press, the press highlight what will sell stories dramatic headlines cause outrage a bit like the ones you linked.
From the IHRA definition ; Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
It surprises me that some in the labour party can't understand how doing this is an attempt to make the crimes committed by the Nazis some how less bad than they actually were. It is a 'yes the Nazis were bad but look the Jews are bad as well' type argument.
It is possible to hold the view that the state of Israel does bad things and state that view without a reference to the Nazis and I'm with the IHRA on this one, to do so is clearly anti-Semitic and therefore the Labour party have answered the question.
@ 701arvn
considering the amount of "what Ken Livingstone said wasn't so bad " comments on this thread I'm not sure many understand your point
I never claimed it was all down the press, the press highlight what will sell stories dramatic headlines cause outrage a bit like the ones you linked.
The only link I had posted highlighted the BBC article about the 3 Jewish communities newspapers articles.
Still, Chakrabati, Corbyn, Cross party select committee and Baroness Royall are just the press telling me Labour have an issue.
ETA - Quote function worked.
willamnot, the tweets you provided showed just 1 email?, which while clearly anti-semitic dont ammount to an avalanche, just 1 idiot who cant spell
Im not sure I see this either
It surprises me that some in the labour party can’t understand how doing this is an attempt to make the crimes committed by the Nazis some how less bad than they actually were.
in what way would it make them seem less bad?
israel appear to be conducting ethinic cleansing, which was something the nazis did, of course they arent murdering millions of arabs in concentration camps, but surely thats not the only comparison that can be made between anyone & the nazis?
Im sure that there are leftie hardcore nutters that believe in the jewish conspiracy bollocks out there & plenty that back corbyn & should be booted out of any party, so them being exposed- like willlsman today is a good thing, & its good to see that left-wing & centrist labour figures have all come out in criticism of willsman, saying he should steon or be booted out
Im not convinced that a lot of this isnt mud slinging by the rightwing press & just Labours own internal leftist vs centrist battle exposing it all though.
Tinfoil hat time... this has hit the news again, just as Labour start to lead in the polls
Labour party problems? Not having a firm position on Brexit and alienating large swaths of centre-left leaning voters, Those 2 are much bigger to the electorate than any Anti-Semitic issues.
Nope Binners – its a right wing attempt to discredit him that is sticking.
This definitely. What I find most depressing is that many in the labour party and their supporters are willing to go along with it because they don't like Corbyn.
What's more likely? That a passionate and lifelong campaigner against racism is a secret racist? Or that the rightwing are manipulating the Jewish community's understandable fear of anti-semitism for their own political purposes?
The big problem is that they have no way of countering the accusations without abandoning their opposition to the Israeli govts policies and their support for Palestinian rights. They won't do the latter (and nor should they), so they can't do the former. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
That the Labour Party is spending months debating the semantics of a definition of anti-semitism yet hasn’t bothered to put together a coherent position on Brexit tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn
I couldn't agree more.
A sixth form protest group, at best. Certainly not anything remotely resembling an opposition
Again, little to disagree with there.
I couldn’t really give a toss about Judaism , Islam, CoS, CoE or any of the other fairy tale flat earthers, when there are actual real issues to be addressed.
Exactly! I see very little from Labour regarding real issues.
I see the problem is that any criticism of Israel is being tightly bundled up with anti- semitism and Corbyn is known to have pro-Palestinian beliefs which considering Israeli actions is no bad thing. Also many labour members would rather see Corbyn discredited and loose than have a victory with him at the head of it. Rubbish UK politics as usual.
its really easy to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic. And yet so many on the left fail to do so. Wonder why?
How many is so many?
its really easy to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic. And yet so many on the left fail to do so. Wonder why?
It's also really easy to call someone an anti-Semite if they criticise Israel. Many on the right do that regularly. Wonder why?
its really easy to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic. And yet so many on the left fail to do so. Wonder why?
Examples may help here
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mikewsmith
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its really easy to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic. And yet so many on the left fail to do so. Wonder why?
Examples may help here
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This , it would be good to see actual examples, because it seems to be repeated a lot by corbyns critics, but I genuinely would like to see some evidence, partly because Im not 100% sold on Corbyn even though I agree with many of his policies
Their current strategy is anti-Semitism, which I really can’t see being taken that seriously by the majority of the country
And the strategy could backfire as being racist in someway is a good thing for a lot of voters...
Here is a good article regarding anti semitic criticism of Israel by Jill Jacobs.
Jill Jacobs is executive director T'ruah for clarity.
Note - I wouldn't like to criticise Israel publicly as it seems you'll always upset someone but I don't see Labours problems as criticism of Israel, it's more about the UKs Jewish populations perception of anti semitism within Labour and the way they deal with that.
There's sadly antisemantism in any subset of humanity I'm afraid, but I don't believe that it's any worse (and arguably better) in the Labour Party.
To my mind the semantics of antisemantism are relevant; antisemantism is the persecution of people because of their Judaism - it is not the justifiable criticism of individuals or a state, for genuine misdemeanours, who also happen to be Jewish - being pro-Palastinian (and critical of Isreali abuses) is not antisemitic (although the accusation is often made as it's immensely powerful and effective).
Anti-Semitism is another slur to throw at Corbyn but I do believe that the Israeli government and some Jewish organisations have a genuine fear of a pro-Palastinian British Government and I do wonder whether some of the coordinated attacks stem from this.
-- Edit --
Already covered, sorry - I shouldn't skim through so quickly!
Here is a good article regarding anti semitic criticism of Israel by Jill Jacobs.
It is a well written piece and lots of it makes sense, there is however one thing that would help move the world along a lot which is Israel starts to follow human rights laws and the UN, it would certainly stop a lot of the potentially misguided criticism out there.
Also jumping on people who may have got the question or criticism wrong unintentionally is counter productive.
The Labour Party is a group of folk, many of whom hold wildly different views when it comes to the middle East, its not a massive surprise that some members will offend some other members with strongly held views. That doesn't however, excuse the NEC from actually just adopting the IHRA in full, and just put the whole thing to bed.
Interestingly its also revealing how quiet the Conservative party are being about the whole thing. Which speaks volumes.
can someone explain, in laymans terms, why the Jewish communities are the focus of this hate or 'alleged' hate? I've genuinely never had it neatly explained.
Interestingly its also revealing how quiet the Conservative party are being about the whole thing
I think thats as m uc to do with them all having their trotters up in Nice at the moment, normally they jump at the opportunity!
there is however one thing that would help move the world along a lot which is Israel starts to follow human rights laws and the UN,
Jew hater!
Adopting the IHRA conflates anti israeli remarks and antisemitic.does it not? The labour party definition makes it clear that criticism of israel is not always anti semetic.
Thats why the uproar. May jews and the israeli government want any criticism of Israel to be seen as antisemetic.
Yep, that must be it Drac 😉 See also how irate some Americans get when people don't stand and salute their flag, or how a criticism of the USA is taken as a personal insult by some groups.
can someone explain, in laymans terms, why the Jewish communities are the focus of this hate or ‘alleged’ hate? I’ve genuinely never had it neatly explained.
Is that really a serious question?
Ever heard of Palestine - small place in the middle east; slowly being ethnicly cleansed by a neighbouring country...
99% is hostility to Israel, which is just 'labelled' anti-Semitism as it avoids taking responsibility for their actions. 1% is generic mistrust / hatred of another race because XYZ, which affects all races everywhere...
can someone explain, in laymans terms, why the Jewish communities are the focus of this hate or ‘alleged’ hate? I’ve genuinely never had it neatly explained.
No doubt antisemitism exists
It has multiple roots from the supposed involvement of jews in the killing of christ to the way that in pre revolutionary russia Jews were forbidden to take part in many professions and trades so many ended up in money lending as their only way to earn a living giving rise to claims of usury etc.
Add to this the suspicions many have of " the other" and the tight knit nature of the jewish diaspora and you get the breeding grounds for predjudice.
can someone explain, in laymans terms, why the Jewish communities are the focus of this hate or ‘alleged’ hate? I’ve genuinely never had it neatly explained.
Didn't do GSCE History?
Medieval times: because only Jews could lend money which meant a lot of people owed them money and people hate the people they owe money to, and have a motive to kill them on any excuse.
In the run up to WW2: Loads of places across Eastern and Western Europe had an anti-semitic tradition but the Nazi propaganda seemed to focus on how well fed and rich Jews were. (During and after WW1 when a lot of people in Europe were starving there were lots of rumours Jews were hoarding food. Cause or symptom of anti-semitism, who knows, but it would have been a powerful reason to hate. (If they thought their kids died or failed to develop normally because of malnutrition while Jewish people hogged all the food.)
Post WW2: It's Israel. Massive numbers of Jews with nowhere else to go trying to cling to a bit of land where they're no longer welcome and doing all the brutal stuff you need to do to stop being 'driven into the sea' in response to all the Brutal stuff the other side need to do to stop the presence of 'foreigners' on 'their' land becoming a fait accompli.
Is that really a serious question?
yes it was. I don't pretend to know everything. I know some of it but Jewish persecution is not my wheelhouse. Call me ignorant if you like but I've never had a compelling reason to look into it and it's never been a part of my life. See also religious hatred in Ireland/Northern Ireland- it just doesn't factor in my life. Im not saying that's right its just the way it is for me. Every day is a school day.
No doubt antisemitism exists
It has multiple roots from the supposed involvement of jews in the killing of christ to the way that in pre revolutionary russia Jews were forbidden to take part in many professions and trades so many ended up in money lending as their only way to earn a living giving rise to claims of usury etc.
Add to this the suspicions many have of ” the other” and the tight knit nature of the jewish diaspora and you get the breeding grounds for predjudice.
cheers, i liked that. I had some knowledge of it but didn't know if i was wide of the mark.
Didn’t do GSCE History?
No, i did Standard Grade history back in the motherland aka F-all. The only WW history we covered was stuff about poetry, which was lost on me at the time. Of course i was aware of Jewish persecution in the wider context of history but it occurred to me reading this tread I have genuinely never had it explained why they were explicit targets for thousands of years. Go figure.
Adopting the IHRA conflates anti israeli remarks and <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">antisemitic.does</span> it not? The labour party definition makes it clear that criticism of israel is not always anti semetic.
@ tjagain - So why is it that so many countries have managed to sign up to IHRA? If the likes of Sweden, Germany, UK, Ireland etc find that they don't have to change parts of the agreement, then why do Labour feel the agreement doesn't suit Labours needs?
The better question would be why, in 2018, are Jewish communities the focus of hate any more than any other groups. I would guess that Islamic communities have a much bigger hate problem than Jewish but they haven't come up with a definition of Islamophobia which states you can't criticize countries.
then why do Labour feel the agreement doesn’t suit Labours needs?
It doesn't suit my needs and I would not accept it either. Maybe the other countries accepted it as they wanted to avoid the hassle.
then why do Labour feel the agreement doesn’t suit Labours needs?
its a fair point, Id say its to do with Labours intense Navel-gazing on the whole issue rather than an anti-semitic plot
If UK have signed up to it can I get into trouble for saying that Israel is behaving like teh Nazis by evicting arabs & building new settlements on their land?
infact if the UK has sihgned up to it aremt labour party members bound by it already, is it law?
Maybe the other countries accepted it as they wanted to avoid the hassle.
Yet the Labour party didn't want to avoid the hassle. Strange priority during the biggest crisis the UK has faced since WW2. Couldn't they just accept the definition temporarily and criticize Israel using slightly different language until after the next general election?
Unless they want us to be distracted which, the more I think about, seems to be exactly what's happening here. Slag off Rabbis and that's the number one story all day, nobody's asking Labour any important questions today, it's all about an issue that's at worst neutral and at best very popular with their core vote.
@ Kerley - I would be genuinely interested to hear why IHRA doesn't suit your needs.
I can respect your opinion if (if it is well thought out and relevant) however, Labour present themselves as being at the vanguard of standing against racism (and rightly so) so I think it is fair for Labour to be absolutely clear on anti semitism within their organisation and that includes dealing with elements of it within the party.
If Labour agree with IHRA, would that mean you would oppose the Labour party as it doesn't fit with your needs?
Unless they want us to be distracted which, the more I think about, seems to be exactly what’s happening here
Are you seriously trying to claim this is all a Labour plot?
I've just been on the IHRA website to have a look at what all the fuss is about. There I found the following examples of anti-semitism
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
So the first seems to me an attempt to conflate issues around the Israeli state, and specifically how it was created, with racism against jews. What the hell has the debate about how Israel was created got to do with historical racism against jews?
The second an attempt to restrict criticism of Israeli policy which could clearly be compared with what the Nazis did. You know, ethnic cleansing, creation of ghettos, summary executions of opponents, collective punishment of innocents, that sort of thing. Gaza is a good example, presumably it's anti-semitic to suggest that it's comparable to the Warsaw ghetto?
Seems to me that these two examples are a clear attempt to restrict freedom of speech and the criticism of Israel, and have nothing to do with hatred of Jews as a people. So can someone please explain what all the fuss is about?
Seems to me that these two examples are a clear attempt to restrict freedom of speech and the criticism of Israel, and have nothing to do with hatred of Jews as a people. So can someone please explain what all the fuss is about?
Too many vested interests here really.
Because there are many ways to criticise Israel without comparing them to the Nazis? Which is a long running Anti Semitic trope
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Because there are many ways to criticise Israel without comparing them to the Nazis? Which is a long running Anti Semitic trope
you still havent shared examples yet
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good job I don't answer to you then Kimbers. But there are enough examples of this on the thread already.
If absolutely must bring the Nazis into every criticism of Israel then you are an anti-Semite
Because there are many ways to criticise Israel without comparing them to the Nazis?
Even if what they are doing is directly comparable in many ways?
@ dahz - At a guess its saying it is OK to say "I disagree with Israels policy of the relocation of Palestine families" but wrong to say "Israel are relocating Palestinian families in the same way the Nazis did to the European Jews". Happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge.
In which case I'd go with I'm unhappy with Israels policy of shooting unarmed civilians and medics, occupying territory, building on it and keeping a population in poverty. I'm sure somebody will be along to complain about that at some point.