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Regulars will know I have issues flying which stems from anxiety. Well, 7 CBT session gone and I attended EasyJet’s fearless flyer course this weekend.
I flew around Essex today completely un-medicated, the first time I’ve been so on a plane for 18 years, likewise going through the check process unaided. I won’t say I wasn’t entirely devoid of nerves, buts it’s a large step toward sensibility.
I need to highlight in particular several ladies who where in tears yesterday during the ground based seminar, who got on the plane - in tears - and came out smiling.
Not cheap but worthwhile I feel. Recommended.
well done Kryton - and your ladies !
This is excellent news. Good for you!
Now awaiting your next threads....
What's the best seat on a BA747?
What shoes for long haul?
Etc.
🙂
Good work
What shoes for long haul?
Oi! stop stealing my material 😉
Well done Kryters.
Top result...congrats.
Thanks. The CBT is a massive help - even for life in general - I’d recommended it.
What shoes for long haul?
not those ones 😉
Could have saved a fortune and gone for the budget option....
Seriously, well done mate, onward and upward.
Good for you Kryton 💪🙌
Well done o.p
My niece has a fear of flying and like you would only do so "medicated" (in her case with alcohol I believe). She did one of the easyJet courses last weekend with a similar outcome to you and cannot stop raving about how good it was.
Top (gun)
My advice would now be to book a flight SOON. Make the new tolerance to flying a habit 👍
Dantsw13 - yes, that’s their advice too. Already booked a flight to Vancouver in April 😀 (Might have a day trip to Edinburgh first)
Was the plane on a conveyor belt?
nice one...
Vancouver eh, that’s a long flight from UK, I did it last June from Manchester, 9 hours. Sure you don’t want to do Dublin & back before then?
btw Vancouver Island is lovely if that’s where you’re headed
What did you do on the flight?
Solo MHC I reckon.
Vancouver eh, that’s a long flight from UK, I did it last June from Manchester, 9 hours. Sure you don’t want to do Dublin & back before then?
Then there’s the direct London-Perth 17 hour nineteen minute flight...
Seriously, well done, congratulations and enjoy the Vancouver trip. 👏🏻🤘🏻
Great news
well done Kryton amd #topshoebantz with CFH
"What did you do on the flight?"
He put smiles on Ladies' faces.
Bravo.
What did you do on the flight?
Well, a lot to do with it is the previous day. The ground course covers three parts - several examples of how we powerful our brains are at negative thinking / filling in gaps of knowledge negatively, a talk through “noises” and mechanical activity from the captian and a final session learning some dis-association and relaxation techniques.
On the flight, there’s a final relaxation technique before take off but then essentially you just fly about with the in cabin captian describing all the activity & noises - flaps, wheels, engine thrusts, bumps over the clouds, landing sequence etc.
Actually Vancouver was pre-booked. I won a work trip and subsequently discovered Mrs K has always want to see Canada, so this and the CBT was part of the process of re-discover ing flying. Plus the docs & airlines are now refusing medicating passengers.
For me the CBT is the biggest part. Discovering that I predominately spiral into negative thought patterns - catastrophising and prediction in the main for flying - and have been for those 18 years means I can now work to counter that. A lot of people including me were surprised how calmly I managed myself through the airport - even experiencing a full on search at security - and waited for the flight with nary a nervous twitch. Yes I was managing my thought process consciously but its a start.
Thanks for all the comments, I hope this inspires someone else to go through the same for whatever anxiety based troubles or concerns they have.
Will it be any different when the flight is for work?
Great news, well done Kryton. Enjoy Vancouver.
Do you feel the need for speed?
Angeldust, I'll entertaining the slight trolling - no . After all the was a voluntary trip I didn't have to go on and ended in gloomy Stansted not a sunny beach .
The Vancouver trip is a work trip, I'm going with colleagues and will have seminars to attend, it's not just the two of us.
ended in gloomy Stansted
Where you did a photo shoot for the Guardian?
Nice one. I've never had an issue with flying but am increasingly unkeen on long haul flights after three people I know got DVT in the last few years, got a work trip to the states in August I'm already dreading.
Kryton - if you have any questions about flying at all, drop me a line - happy to chat about it.
Let me know the details of your Vancouver flight - if it’s BA I can contact the pilots, if it would help you to pop into the cockpit before flying.
Ferrals - get up & walk around, keep hydrated, stretch/wiggle your legs when seated.
take an aspirin before flight. Don’t get pissed. Don’t go for a run when you land in Aus until the next day.
Well done Kryton!
Vancouver eh, that’s a long flight from UK, I did it last June from Manchester, 9 hours. Sure you don’t want to do Dublin & back before then
I would have through having enough time to get through anxiety, nerves, excitement, acceptance and finally to the point of being properly bored about the whole thing would be a excellent development opportunity.
Ferrals – get up & walk around, keep hydrated, stretch/wiggle your legs when seated.
take an aspirin before flight. Don’t get pissed. Don’t go for a run when you land in Aus until the next day.
Nice one. Is tehre any benefit to buying compression stockings?
I believe so, but i don’t bother.
Let me know the details of your Vancouver flight – if it’s BA I can contact the pilots, if it would help you to pop into the cockpit before flying.
Wowsers - thanks! It is BA, a 747 out of Heathrow so I'll drop you a line, much appreciated.
Well done Kryton, that is a great outcome.
I have yet to get over my fear of flying around Oxfordshire at the hands of my 17yo 😉 . He's currently on "Local Solo", and about 8 hours to PPL. Then it's take Daddy flying time.
BA 747 from LHR - I'll wave as you fly over my house.
It is BA, a 747 out of Heathrow
62K outbound, 62A return. 2K/A isn't too bad, either.
🙂
That aside, SeatGuru and STWFrequentFlyerTrackWorld are good source of seat advice. A good seat makes a lot of very positive difference to a flight.
Well done Kryton, you must be well chuffed, I know I would be!! takes balls to face a challenge like anxiety about flying. 🙂
Was the plane on a conveyor belt?
Can't have been, it took off.
Well done Kryton, I'm really chuffed for you!!
I'm very unhappy when flying and asked about those courses a while ago but didn't find time to do it. I've recently been to Verona (ski) and Zürich (work) and didn't die. I think over analysing every bump and noise doesn't help me. I flew to Zurich on a new Embraer, it sounds like an angry hairdryer and at one point was making an awful high pitched din for about 5mins. I was really uncomfortable for a few mins but survived.
I've got to fly to Dallas in about 6 weeks and I'm concerned about 10hrs in economy. At 6ft 1.5in with long limbs and 98kg of "relaxed geometry", it'll be mild torture. Woe is me..
Once again well done mate!!!
@danstw13 - any top tips for dealing with the general discomfort of being wedged into a small seat in long haul economy?
Well done, it's good to hear stories like this.
Also 2017 was the safest year ever for commercial jets. No passenger jet crashes. Let that sink in. That's crazy stats.
I've started to embrace flying now as I do it more but was never that happy about it.
I will add one tip. One two occasions to the USA it's been cheaper to fly premiere economy than economy with Thomas Cook from Manchester.
Bigger seats, less people, better meal and movies and first off.
ElShalimo - try a website called seatguru - it tells you the best seats on any airline/aircraft.
When choosing your seats online, look for where the number of seats in a block decreases (normally at the back as the aircraft narrows) the first row of the decreased number usually has slightly more space.
Other than that I’d always pay extra for an exit row seat with more legroom. Remember headrests normally have “wings” you can fold out to support your head when sleeping.
Row 31 for us to Vancouver. Pretty normal seat. We couldn’t upgrade as this flight is Economy and Business with no Premium in the middle. Upgrades were £3k each although this won’t stop me mentioning our 10th Wedding anniversary at check in 🙂 You never know your luck...
Upgrades were £3k each although this won’t stop me mentioning our 10th Wedding anniversary at check in You never know your luck…
Just wear the special shoes and have a paperclip in your lapel.
You'll have your feet up sipping champagne in no time.
You never know your luck…
Go expecting not to be upgraded. That way you won't be disappointed! Dressing smartly (shoes included), asking nicely, claiming an anniversary, all useless, I'm afraid.
Upgrades are either paid for out of your own pocket, or paid for by having spent too long flying! OpUps are almost always given on a priority basis. So, for example, economy is overbooked. They'll see if they have any Gold card holders who they can bump up to premium. If not, any silver, etc.
Which reminds me, Dan, your lot must owe me one by now! 🙂
Oh, and SeatGuru, as above. Even for the comfy seats up front it can make a huge difference. I also thought that BA had premium on all 747s.
Kryton57
I flew around Essex today completely un-medicated,
If I had to do it on the ground I suspect medication might be required
Well done for facing your fear. I went through a few years of being a nervous flyer after one horrible flight, but getting back on the horse, as it were, to normalise things worked for me. Lucky I travel alot with work so got over it pretty quickly.
As to economy seat advice, I always go for an isle seat towards the centre of the aircraft if you can, right over the wing box if possible. That is where you get less movement, especially in turbulence and weather.
Rather than the exit seats I prefer bulkhead seats. Exit seats can be a PITA - they can be cold and a bit more noisy and draughty if the seals around the doors are not perfect. Also if you get one against the side of the aircraft (i.e. opposite to the isle) then the escape slide cover can encroach into your legroom meaning you have to sit at a slight slant. And you often don't get the benefit of a window either due to the additional structure around the edge of the door. And during the times in the flight when the toilets get busy you sometimes get people standing in and around the area where your feet are. Also the screens sometimes come out from the arm of the seat so have to be stowed for take off and landing and inevitably means missing the last 10 or so minutes of the movie as you come into land.
But unfortunately 10 hours on a plane in economy is a bind, there is no easy way around it. As others have said try to get up and walk around a few times through the flight if you can. Or just crash out if you can, sleeping for half the flight really reduces the perceived flight length. The only other thing you can do to improve your comfort is fly A380. By far and away THE most comfortable plane to fly on. So quiet, airy, and smooth. Even though the seats are just as packed in as with any other plane, it somehow feels more spacious.
Just thought I’d post an update here, as some my find it quite useful. So, returned yesterday from a med free trip to Vancouver 🙂 Second time - and first time long haul - I’ve flown unmedicated for 15 years.
Dantsw- I rejected your kind offer (Thankyou again) for reasons as posted below. It’s important for me to learn trust in the pilots, learn to live and trust in uncertainty and not continue seek safety valves and validation in everything I do - although visiting the cockpit would have been awesome, the subsequent reassurance recieved is a safety mechanism.
The journey out was easier than the way back for reasons unknown although I’ll discuss that with my CBT councillor. However, I used all the techniques we’ve been discussing, and certainly there was no traumatic build up pre-flight for me or Mrs K. It wasn’t easy though. Of course I had to avoid all the “Safety behaviours” I’d usually exhibit - asking for help, reaching for the arms of the chairs, constantly staring at the flight map/countdown, getting up & down, catastrophising, negative thoughts and so on. As the councillor mentioned, its no magic bullet and I need to practise these techniques on an ongoing basis as well as “exposure therapy” of more flying where possible, rather than than avoidance. The hardest part for me, was to sit still trying to be calm with my hands on my lap whilst strapped in my chair during the landing phase last night in a very bumpy 15 minutes holding pattern inside yesterdays storm clouds over Heathrow - that’s 15 minutes of exposure therapy teaching me that although I was quite uncomfortable, it was safe.
For anyone considering CBT <i>for any reason</i> I’d encourage you to go for it. What its taught me is that life’s habits, situations and more obvious remedies are often quite destructive and although offer potential “quick fixes”, the real effort is to work on yourself, and allow someone to teach you how to improve, or revert your learned tendencies back to a positive conclusion. For me, its not just flying - the techniques I’ve learned can be applied to a lot of the thought processes and decision making I need to do in my life, and I now catch myself applying them to daily situations. Some people don’t need that, and for them they may not “get” why people like us have fallen into spirals of negativity, depression, or “entrapped” life cycles but for those that have please try CBT - there are no magic bullets but you will recieve a box of tools to improve your way of life.
Oh and BTW, Vancouver is a very awesome place in the world, I’d encourage anyone to visit, and an extremely grateful that I’ve been afforded the help which has provided me the opportunity to do so - I’m very lucky.
Well done Kryton!!
Kryton - great news! I completely understand your reasons for doing it the way you did.
If you do fancy a cockpit visit on a future flight (sadly only on the ground these days post 9/11) drop me a line & I’ll see what I can do.
Ive stopped flying Longhaul now - currently in the middle of my Shorthaul Captains course, so if you are blasting around Europe it could be me!
Much appreciated! If I get on the right plane I’ll take you up on that offer - are you still BA?
One thing totally unrelated to my issues I was shocked at is how old the 747 we were in looked. Bits of trim falling off, misaligned carpet, shoddy overhead locker catches... I know BA are retiring them and I guess maximising any returns but its not a good look.
Yes, still BA.
The 747s are definately showing their age, but still a solid old beast - a bit like an old Mercedes Taxi with 200k on the clock!
The BA 747’s are knackered. I did Vancouver last month (premium economy is up front by the way between business and first) and San Diego last year.
ps. Should have done a seaplane in Vancouver. They are awesome.
A good news story for a Sunday morning.
Well done Kryters.
@dantsw13 - do you know which 747s were refurbished? I think half of them were spruced up a bit. I'm going to Dallas on one soon and it'd be good to fly on one and not a tatty old taxi
😉
Jam bo - I stood in that same place - albeit a lot sunnier - and watched the seaplanes. I could have gone on one as the reason I was in Vancouver was a work reward trip, including one of a choice of excursions - I chose a boat trip instead. A colleague went on the Seaplane trip and although he’s fine with flying said he was alarmed by the manual pumping of fuel and other processes, and “cockpit which appeared to be held together by gaffer tape”. I’m sure it’s all quite normal, they are impressive to watch.
My 747 flew fine and although we booked the front of economy we got offered to be bumped to premium bulkhead seat on the way back. I took the offer mostly because Mrs K struggled with a stiff post ACL leg outbound, it was nicer but not Virgin nicer. It basically cost me the wheels I’d ordered last week (now cancelled) but to be fair she deserved the trip and the treat anyway after putting up with my selfish cycling habits.
I had to get from Vancouver to Victoria for work. Quickest way. They are pretty agricultural though.
Well I’ve just completed my 9th unmedicated and final flight of the year - that’s the same amount of flights across the entire 6 years before that whilst using diazepam and tamazepam. I’m impressed with the CBT but as i was told “...it’s a box of tools with which you need to keep practising...” This weeks flights were a good reminder of how I’ve let “life” distract me from the techniques on a regular basis, although I was able use them during the process of flying back and forth this week.
Im not instantly at ease with flying, but - and this may be trivial to some - I’m able to manage myself through these the whole process from leaving the house to arriving back again without refusals, booze, drugs, or emotional out bursts and have curtailed those “triggers” I’d normally use to “calm” myself - now known as “continuing the spiral”
Especially poignant this week was that the girl next to me on the way out was shitting herself during take off and I was able to empathise and help her a little. She doesn’t know my history, but I bet she’d be surprised at my demeanour!
Well done Kryton!
I still struggle with flying. My last trip to Zürich was a bit too bouncy for my liking but I didn't die. At least it was only 2 hrs
Where's that LIKE button?
FWIW, I'm flying to Barra tomorrow.
Especially poignant this week was that the girl next to me on the way out was shitting herself during take off and I was able to empathise and help her a little. She doesn’t know my history, but I bet she’d be surprised at my demeanour!
*applause*
I'm sitting on the runway now and it's late. Again. Going to miss question time.
Nice work Kryton.
Great to hear this, Kryters. Very pleased for you!
Cheers all. Have a good flight ScotRoutes, that looks “interesting”...
ElShalimo - three things in my mantra to get over the nervousness during the bumps; repeat “I might find turbulence uncomfortable, but I know that flying is safe” and “Although <i>I</i> feel nervous it doesn’t mean the situation is dangerous”. And from the CBT, if it isn’t happening now it isn’t happening - throw it - the throughts/worry - away.
Nice one Kryton! I can remember your previous posts about your flying fear & the stress it was heaping on your work life etc.
Great news that you have managed to overcome those issues! You should feel pretty proud of yourself.
Forget all the flying business, I just want to work for somewhere that gives Canadian holidays as bonuses!!!!
Well done with the flying anyway,
👏👏😀💪
I just want to work for somewhere that gives Canadian holidays as bonuses!!!!
Ha Ha - its Lisbon next April for this years reward - I'm qualified, but need to see how far I get up the league table to see if I get there, theres only 30 allocated places available.
It does involve selling your soul though!