[Closed] How do I ride steep and sloppy trails?

Touching the front brake seems like a massive no no.

And here is your problem, most of the braking needs to be done using front brake.

Drop you saddle, yet your arse over the back wheel (properly out and back and low nearly touching the wheel) and learn to control your use of front brake to find that balance point between braking effect and OTB. If you feel the back wheel lifting just release the brake slightly.

Getting you arse over ha back wheel also means braking effect on the back is more likely to be effective rather than just a big skid.

Its proper old school riding. Lots of old timers developed these skills before bikes were quite so forgiving and movement over the bike was more important.

Touching the front brake seems like a massive no no.

This makes me think you’re probably too far off the back. Get your weight forward (bend your elbows) and the front wheel will stick better.

Depending on the trail you may need to shed speed by sliding into the turns rather than trying to brake in a straight line.

But it’s hard and for those people (me included) used to riding hard-pack or rocky stuff, balancing in the slop can be difficult.

Edit: my reply obviously completely contradicts the one above, ha (I’m right obvs).

You need to weight central between the wheels. Too forward or backward will be a problem. Obviously if the bikes at 45degree you need your arse back to weight central between the wheels.

Steer with you hips and look ahead. Learning to rear wheel steer can help too - embrace the slide! Don't fight it.

I tend to leave my front brake well alone unless it's on a flat ish bit of dirt. Well all know what happens if you try and brake on roots or rocks.

Sometimes you have to dab. Especially if you don't know where you are going so can't set up right.

Practice. I love steep slippy rooty trails.

So lean forward, hang off the back wheel, keep your weight centred, use the front brake more but dont touch the front brake...

getting weight right back used to be the stock answer when we all had full height saddles - full arm extension and rubbing your genitals on the tyre - but your torso still had to be above the saddle and hence c of g would be high.

The c of g in relation to front wheel patch dictates the turning moment making the bike rotate forward and ejecting you over the front if you brake too hard.

Now bikes are longer with shorter stems and dropper posts, you can get the weight lower still with less extreme positions.

In turns..... you have to work your footwork too, outside pedal down lowers your c of g by another 6" but like ski-ing, you have to commit to that half stroke at each transition.

What bike are you riding and how steep?

So to further summarise you need your weight either further forward, further back, in the middle, lower down, imagine you are skiing and make sure you are on a modern bike!

these replies are hilarious! genuine LOLs 😂

OP, I'd love to know too - my basic thing is stay as relaxed as I possibly can, lean the bike (not the body), and brake only when it looks like its safe (some traction, not turning).

other wise I tend to just shut my eyes, hit it with speed whilst shouting "SHiiiiiiiiiiiittttt"

HTH 🙂

I go centred so I can go forward or back, trust the ruts, let it slide, foot-out is fine, don't go too slow and don't expect to stop. Maybe crash, and then go again and again and it'll come.

I am a slow punter though and small children will be railing the same ruts like they are hardpack berms.

Mleh, Lazer cock.

Line choice is where the grip is. Don't worry about what the rear wheel is doing, keep your speed up, (you probs need to going a bit faster than seems comfy)  head up, look where you want to go, keep the front tyre rolling and use your hips to steer.

Play the long game. Wait until summer. Nail your technique in the grippy dry. Apply what you learned next winter.

Haha, thanks all. Some varying answers. I guess the real thing is just getting out there and practicing.
I'm on a Specialized Enduro Evo (but today I was on hardtail when I found them so that's probably part of the problem anyway).

Laugh a lot, manically

Hth 😀

Yeah ^ as per nickc, definitely look round the corner/where you want to go. Ie trust the front wheel to stick the rut or berm, get off the brakes and look ahead.

Only bad things happen if you look at your front wheel.

Mud tyres ftw!

How do I ride steep and sloppy trails?

On the road. 😉

Low centre of gravity helps, so I prefer to get the falling off out of the way at the top and slide down on my arse. This technique does not transfer to the summer months because of the increased friction (unless it’s very steep) so you will probably need to adapt to a rolling motion.

Depending on the trail you may need to shed speed by sliding into the turns rather than trying to brake in a straight line.

This is key. Hard to get used to but you just need to practice and find the confidence.

Its practice really. Lots of it. There are loads of runs on our local hill in Delamere that are very muddy and slippy. I'm getting better by just riding them more often. Outside foot down on turns and be happy going sideways. With practice comes confidence and a more relaxed and loose style which really helps.

As does a big spikey mud tyre up front x

Just treat it like it’s dry and go faster.
Half the battle is often worrying about it being slippery. Trust your tyres.

Thread of the year already. Unless another brilliant jeans one comes along! Gold!

What vanhalen said, don't get your arse over the back wheel, it limits your steering,buggers up your traction and also lessens the effect of the front brake.

You need to be moving your weight about and steering with your hips, and basically get more comfortable riding steep faster, as you don't really have much option.

Use a Hillbilly.

Drop post. Get low, arse back but still keeping chest over top tube and chin (sort of) over stem. Going too far back unweights front wheel which is bad for steering and braking. Feather brakes and remember you can either brake or steer, just not at the same time. As others have said use your torso to turn, keep your weight central over the bike (and therfore wheels) to aid traction and lean the bike under you. Embrace the slide. Practice and be prepared to fall off a few times (or a lot in my case). Decent mud tyres definitely help

While you can practice posture, braking etc (front to scrub speed, rear to steer)the fundamental thing you need to do is work out how to read the trail.
Some parts you’ll pick up speed no matter what, you need to identify where you’re going to brake to take off the momentum. I.e if there is a rut or catch berm use it to slow, or steer. Kinda like skiing moguls.

my mate pointed out i was looking at the front wheel. So "look up, look ahead" worked wonders for me

Stay low, weight central, steer with hips, all sound advice, hanging off the back makes the front slide out, braking is more effective in the compressions.

Yup, eyes up heels down, and if it looks far to sketchy to survive, let go the brakes let the bike do it's thing and laugh yer tits off when you live to tell the tale.

I often don't survive.

Is this if any use? I always quite like his how to guides https://www.mbr.co.uk/how-to-2/steep-mountain-biking-388648

other wise I tend to just shut my eyes, hit it with speed whilst shouting “SHiiiiiiiiiiiittttt”

No! No! No! No! You need to be shouting "SSSTTTRTRAAAAAAAAVVVVAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!”

Same q as OP, I rode some of the newer lines that have been cut in to Leigh Woods where picnic bench used to be and they seem so much steeper. Obviously the slop didn’t help but I find as soon as things get steep and sketchy, my eyes won’t shift from my front wheel and it all goes hairy.

On flatter/dryer/flow-ier trails I can keep my head and hips pointing the right way much easier.

Is there a way to force yourself to keep looking forward? I feel like a passenger on the bike, falling down the hill hanging on, rather than riding my bike down it! I guess the obvious answer is practice...

The trail dictates how you attack it, the keep low and back works well on smooth/slippy/dusty DH, but any big hits that the front wheel takes can send your weight forward, and the OTB scenario. You need to know the skills to be able to work that front wheel whilst going down with weight back.

The central weight attack position is always a good start, chin over the stem, low and in control, but you need the confidence to be like that, always feels more comfortable to be low and back, and you can slide into that position and stay there so easily, i do this a lot!

Again, it's all situational, for me this time of year is slippy and the front wheel washout is the nightmare for me, so i defend against that, so if back and less in control of the front, i tend to avoid front brake so much, same with rocky descents, i avoid having my weight all the way back, as it can only go one way if i impact anything too much, give it a walk through and work out the best way down, then work out what you might do if it goes wrong, knowing how to ditch can give you confidence, when going down real steep stuff knowing i can dab or just jump off the back gives me a little confidence that i'm not going OTB and into pain on a crash!

That MBR article linked above is good.

I really wouldn't presume to offer advice myself, but the tips in that piece chime with me and I think he's got a good way of conveying things.

If you want to spend money, I really rate the WTB Verdict Wet high grip tyre for that kind of riding. Very draggy but feels like cheating compared to an all-rounder front tyre.

So lean forward, hang off the back wheel, keep your weight centred, use the front brake more but dont touch the front brake…

And, whatever you do, don't touch the back brake or you will crash. Just aim for daylight and hold on. Or jump off if you think you're about to crash.

theotherjonv - Thought that chap was a bit odd. He gave himself away at 3:30: "..to allow us to have access to our human leg travel."

Gotcha, lizard-being!

Find something slightly less steep than the stuff that really does your head in, and ride that til you're good at it, then the steeper stuff will be easier. Big jumps up in challenge aren't just intimidating, they can be hard to learn from, you tend to end up in "survival" rather than "actually doing it well and building experience" and building up a file of stuff that you've ridden but that still shits you up, as opposed to a bag of past wins that you can go "that one's only a little bit steeper than that one I'm good at" or whatever. You can do the same by riding the same feature in good and bad weather.

(I'm not a fast rider, and I can't jump, but what I can do is ride steeps. And that's all I did, rode just within my ability to ride stuff well, and built up. It's good sometimes to really push sometimes too of course)

Yeah thanks all. Some good tips in there and I'll try a few of them out next weekend.
Once I had slipped and slid my way down there were some easier and less steep features at the bottom but the 5 dudes on quads and crossers put me off hanging around to practice...

It’s good sometimes to really push sometimes too of course)

Pushing works for me everyone. Shortly followed by landing on my arse and bum shuffling down.

Drop you saddle, yet your arse over the back wheel (properly out and back and low nearly touching the wheel)

No.

Go low as you can but centred so you have more room to manoeuvre on the bike when you need to, if you just push yourself all the way back your arms are straight, extended and have limited movement to then control the bike.

The first three replies cracked me up!

Things that helped me:

Remember to keep your arms bent, this will help to weight front wheel and give you grip.
Stay low.
Drop a bit of tyre pressure (unless they're already very low).
Slightly higher rise bar can help with confidence.

Play the long game. Wait until summer. Nail your technique in the grippy dry. Apply what you learned next winter.

this is the worst thing you can do imo. you gotta keep riding them, makes you appreciate the dusty season more. if you can nail it while its shit you will be flying come summer!!

As another poster has said, you can lean too far back and then you cant steer!

Trial and error really to find what works for you and your bike, I've gone OTB on a steep trail, I've lost control and ended up hugging a tree, this year I've ridden more steep stuff then ever and feel really comfortable on it.

It's difficult for lots of folks to practice them, as there's a lot of places around the country that just don't have access to steep trails, then you rock up at the Tweed Valley or Aberfoyle and it's like a different world.

Have a look about and see if you can find a really steep place you can try out, best places are usually in managed forests, as it's too steep to farm. You don't even need to build trails, just ride down a line, after a few runs you'll have a line, and it's great for riding steep loose stuff, as it'll be pretty loose!.

OK, so... By trying all of the above I managed to narrow down what works for me at least.
To start with I tried getting over the front wheel with my chest closer to my bars to stop myself getting catapulted, locking the rear brake so I went down like a mad toboggan and dabbed the front to bring it under control. This weirdly worked but is actually wrong I think.

So the best success I had was weight slightly back and (here's the key) drop the heels. I felt so much more in control with dropped heels.
Other things, don't be afraid to slide your back wheel and also don't be afraid to stick a foot out for balance or to dab. Definitely feather the brakes rather than lock on.
Also those 90 degree corners after steep chutes will do a decent job of catching you. I sessioned a bunch of berms in a row and felt like someone skiing (that's actually a tip not a statement). I think the main this was I just practiced and sessioned until I figured out what works. But heels down seems to be the key. Oh and sometimes ruts can be friends. They are there because everyone is riding that line after all.
The end.