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My daughter has been doing a great job of composing songs and with her birthday coming up a laptop to help set her up with a home recording set up seems sensible. I’m thinking if she starts with a laptop that she can use to type up scores and record onto (I have a mic already) then over time she can add to it with other gadgets. At the moment her laptop sounds like a jet engine and can barely run one program at a time.
Does anyone know what is the minimum spec to be looking at for this purpose? Her dad says he has one he can hand down to her with 4gb RAM and a 1.1ghz processor. Would that do?
If the handmedown one will cut the mustard, what other gadgets should I be looking to get her? I know she’d like to mess with loops like Billie Eilish. Not expecting great production quality or anything here, I just want her to have the tools to experiment and record what she’s doing. Thanks!
As well as a decent laptop and DAW software of her choice, she’ll also need a suitable interface, studio monitors and/or decent headphones.
Focusrite (sp) seem to be a common interface, typically for me I use a Yamaha interface and/or a Zoom R-16 portastudio. My headphones are KRK and my monitors are M-Audio
Oh yes, microphones might be useful too at some point. If you have the budget a Shure SM57 is a good starting point. I have a nice balanced pair of Rode condenser mics and a whole set of drum mics. Mic stands are useful too.
Have a look at Gear4music, they have some good packages for all budgets
Hi Hannah. Does your daughter play any conventional instruments and does she want to record her voice? That will govern what you need to get the sound into the computer.
I suspect that laptop will struggle.
Something with a relatively recent i5 processor, 4-8gb of Ram (more us better) and an SSD drive would be good.
At home I use an iMac, but for live stuff and travelling I use a refurbed HP Elitebook bought from www.tier1online.com - cost me under £200 and I upgraded ram and hardrive for about £100.
I'd avoid studio monitors for now, they are pricy. A decent set of over-ear headphones us the way to go. AKG or similar are good. Cost would be £80ish.
A small, decent external soundcard, something like the Behringer Umc22, will get her going. They're about £40 I think.
I'd look at a small usb controller keyboard too, Novation ones are good (£100ish for a 49 key one) and they come with Ableton Live Light, which is great for recording and playing with loops.
Otherwise, Waveform (used to be called Tracktion) is an excellent free to download, fully functioning piece of recording and production software.
All in your looking at £500-600 for a beginner's setup that will actually function, and be able to get decent recordings and tunes out of.
You can get bargains on eBay, as a lot of people buy this stuff, never use it or get upgraditis, and then sell it on.
+1 for Behringer gear. Great bang for the buck and you should lose very little if you decide to upgrade at some point in the future.
I agree with much of what ajantom says. I have monitors, but rarely use them. Headphones are a better investment. 2nd hand midi controller keyboards can be had pretty cheap. I'm a massive fan of Ableton, having used other daws in the past, but have the paid for version (education discounts are available). Reaper is another free one to look at. Note that there is a bit of a learning curve on all daws, so worth persisting. Tons of helpful YouTube videos (or here!) to help out.
I wouldn't be in a rush to buy tons of gear. You can have loads of fun with just a simple setup.
Coincidentally I bought an interface unit today, a focusrite Scarlet 2i2. It can be bought in a bundle with a lead, microphone and headphones and when you buy it you get the codes to download a lot of software. The 2i2 lets you record two things at once or for £30 less there is the Solo bundle that only records one thing at a time. Not usually a problem.
You’d need a mic stand but pretty much everything else is in there.
I can see I’m going to spend a long time on google finding out what all those words mean! Thanks folks.
@eddiebaby She plays the piano and sings.
She has some good headphones, so I think that’s covered. I know the keyboard she has doesn’t have a midi output so that’ll be on the shopping list at some point. I think a desk might have to be on the list too - she’s currently got her laptop balanced on the ironing board! (Though, it’s a good use for an otherwise redundant household item!).
I have done lots of audio recording on a computer with an old Intel Core 2 Duo processor (i.e. before they invented i3/i5 etc) and 4GB of RAM. I built the computer in 2006! It still works fine - I am typing on it now.
So, the laptop will probably be alright. Worth trying it anyway?
As others have said you will need an interface to get sound in and out of the computer (the basic soundcards in computers won't work well at all).
Have a search for USB Audio Interface. You'll probably get a second hand one on FB Marketplace or eBay.
I wouldn't worry too much about monitors/fancy headphones. Just plug it into whatever you have lying around for now.
Also, have a look at some software called Reaper that allows you to record multiple audio and midi tracks, add effects, mix them together etc (That type of software is called a DAW). It has a full featured and unlimited trial period and isn't expensive to get the full licence.
You might get some DAW software along with the audio interface but it is often a cut down version of a more expensive one. You'll get used to one kind of software and it's hard to change. You might end up getting tied in to an expensive ecosystem.
Once you have gotten setup, have a search for free VSTs. These are effects you can load on to audio or MIDI tracks to change the sound. Lots of fun to be had!
Hi Hannah, for piano and singing then The Focusrite Scarlett Solo seems to be the go to device coming with the cut down but still highly useable Lite Version of Ableton Live.
https://www.andertons.co.uk/brands/focusrite/scarlett-interfaces/focusrite-scarlett-solo-3rd-generation
She can run a mic through it for vocals. If the piano is electric she could record that at the same time.
This guy has lots of videos aimed at getting people into recording. This one is about the minimum kit you need.
He does others about using different software, all aimed at novices to recording.
To add a tiny bit of extra detail to eddiebaby's post his 2i2 will record two analogue audio channels at once (e.g. mic and electric guitar) If you have any midi compatible instruments (e.g a usb midi keyboard) then you can plug those direct into your PC.
Aha... the mic I have is a USB one. So, no music interface or a new mic. God. Bike standards are simple in comparison to all this! Good YouTube channel, thanks @eddiebaby
I kind of did this as a lockdown project. Existing 4 year old laptop but it was a decent spec when I bought it - £900 range.
I got an M-Audio Keystation 49 for £73 - that came with Abelton Lite and ProTools First (DAWs), a software synth, piano module and organ module.
ProTools was a bit glitchy with the keyboard,so I discovered Cakewalk is now free - it used to be one of the main DAWs. Worked perfectly, more capabilities than I'll ever need. Ableton is more loop based though, I've been told. I'm more of a traditional recorder!
Then I wanted more funky noises so splashed out on the AIR Instruments EP 3 Complete - a load of synths, drum machine, sampler, effects. The keyboard came with a code to get this for £149.
https://www.airmusictech.com/product/air-instrument-expansion-pack-3-complete#.XvhRiojYpD8
I was blown away by this - the sound options are astonishing.
I then wanted to record instruments (mainly guitars) so got the Focusrite Solo bundle that came with a mic and headphones. £199 for that.
https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/focusrite-scarlett-solo-studio-3rd-gen-usb-audio-interface
I reckon you could get away with a midi keyboard and the included software to start, hunt out some free software sounds (VSTs) and add other items later if needed.
This are my first attempts at recording some stuff - I'm a barely adequate guitarist (first one), then something I did as background for a video we made for a cancelled wedding, then a theme for my work team! First one uses the audio interface, second two were done before I bought that.
https://soundcloud.com/user-181646129/sets/first-attempts
Some great advice here. DAW stands for Digital Audio Station.... basically a software version of a recording studio.
A Novation Keyboard would be great for her if she already plays piano.
USB mics aren't my area of expertise. You will probably get away without needing an audio interface though. If she has that friends play guitar/bass etc and she wanted add that stuff to her songs she could probably mic them up with that USB mic.
Reaper is really good software, as is Ableton Live Lite. My experience of Live Lite on a similar spec laptop to the one that you mentioned in your OP was that it was fairly unusable. I'd try and get a laptop with the best i5 processor that you can get. 8gb RAM and an SSD hardrive.
I used to produce dance music on a Core 2 Duo / 4GB ram PC back in 2006 using Cubase / Ableton software and everything ran at full speed so its definitely possible to make music on a lower spec computer. That was with a Focusrite interface (which I can't recommend enough - awesome sound quality for the cash) and I regularly recorded my mate's band using that kit. Actual recording and editing uses less system resources than running plugins / synths / virtual drum machines etc.
Her daughter is likely to be only using synths/vst's aside from vocals!
It can be done on lower spec stuff I'm sure, if it's an older laptop though, then the new software is'nt really optimised for Windows 8 either.
This is probably getting a bit too deep, but if your PC is running out of steam with lots of VSTs, you can bounce those tracks to audio and disable the original track with the VST on it. You can always go back and re-enable, or rerecord the VST track later.
Ha, yeah I think that's probably a bit further down the line!
Interesting the comment above about Pro Tools....I couldn't really get anything from AVID working very well on my old laptop.
As mentioned you don't have to spend a fortune to have a setup that is good enough to get professional results. Knowledge of gain staging, clipping, frequency pocketing, multi-tracking, parallel processing (like composite images for sound) and high and low pass filtering will go a long way toward what the buying public are accustomed to hearing from professional recordings. Creativity and musical knowledge will trump any technical prowess, as you can't polish a turd, without it sounding like a polished turd! We have all been spoilt with great music from our early years and most people can quickly identify things that are not quite right!
An outboard audio interface (cheapest are 2 inputs 2 outputs as already mentioned) as you can move them from one PC/Mac to another. Obviously if you want to record a band simultaneously with a multi-micced drum kit, for example, you will need a lot more than two inputs or you will have to chain/multiplex!
Many of the electronics have been successfully copied. Sometimes bettered and usually good enough that it doesn't matter! You can buy good knockoffs/inspired by famous headphones and mics from Superlux, Tbone and SE Electronics. The German retailer Thomann as well as the others mentioned above are good places to look.
DAW software is subjective and on the internet very tribal! They are not all equal and some are more optimised for certain use types than others. She should demo as many as possible, then make a decision on which best suits her needs. IMO speed of use/recording (some include tuning and score editing) is paramount to getting ideas down before they disappear into the ether!
You can lower a DAW's sample rate to 44.1 KHz 16bit (CD quality) and change the audio buffer (adds latency). You can also reduce/turn off oversampling (x2 x4 x8 x16) in individual plug-ins/VST's to improve performance of less than optimal hardware.
Most modern synth plug-ins and distortions use oversampling which hammers CPU, animation and video rendering can be even more intensive. When using lots of sample based audio you need more RAM.
I'd buy a mac for recording. You can also generally plug guitars directly into them without the need for an audio interface. can on my 27" 2011 imac anyhow. I still use a scarlett 2i4 mind you as you get better control of the input and more connectivity options. But it is possible for to forgo the audio interface with a mac.
Main reason for the mac though is sound quality, my laptop can handle abelton and multitrack recording fine 2014, i5, 8gig HP laptop, but the sound quality isn't as good as the imac. even with the audio interface connected. So be wary of that with pc's. I'd probably recommend going with an old macbook pro (or preferable 27" imac if portability isn't an issue), than a newer pc just cause of this. Core audio and the macs audio internals, are just better than ASIO and pc can be variable on the internals.
Plus, can be a bit fiddly getting the pc to work with out audio drop outs if you've got a load of stuff running at start up etc, so you need to know what you are doing there, easy if you know how, but confusing if you are just learning it.
Also if the keyboard she has can connect via usb, should be able to use that as a midi controller, so check that before you buy anything. midi doesn't need midi in and out cables, most works over usb these days.
btw on the comp spec in general, i5 processor, 8 gig minimum, and a solid state drive on what ever system you chose are musts.
^^^^^ I'd second that as a minimum. It will allow her to start basic but use professional mixing techniques when/if needed. They will be needed as the standards of years of recorded music demand a certain level of professionalism and the limit of 0dBFS.
The sophistication of modern music production get's trashed by shit talkers on the internet that can't produce anything other than hot air and what they curl out of the arses/mouths.
Put them in front of any DAW, push a button here and there (like they say) no:1 hit doesn't happen, who knew!
Yeah i5 or Ryzen 5 (2nd or preferably 3rd gen) processor plus 8gb seems to be the minimum for Windows 10 these days. Windows is a resource hog.
At the start of lockdown, I set myself up my first basic home studio setup to capture some ideas from by bass guitar and teach myself how to use some music production software.
I already had an existing laptop (a cheap HP W10 i5) and some headphones, so I purchased the following:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/focusrite_scarlett_2i2_3rd_gen.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/native_instruments_komplete_kontrol_m32.htm
Both the above come with a 'lite' versions of Abelton Live so I have been using that and I have to say that as a beginner, I wouldn't want much more than that to start with.
It's been fantastic. There are so many YouTube videos on how to start using Ableton that it's been really easy to pick up with some amazing results.
If I really get into it more then I might look to upgrade the laptop at some point but unless you're using a resource hungry midi sample, it copes with most of the noises I make.
My thinking is that I can learn on this setup for a while and if I keep enjoying it I will know what kit I might like to upgrade to as and when.
Hope that helps.
Both the above come with a ‘lite’ versions of Abelton Live so I have been using that and I have to say that as a beginner, I wouldn’t want much more than that to start with.
It’s been fantastic. There are so many YouTube videos on how to start using Ableton that it’s been really easy to pick up with some amazing results.
Just wait until the bug really bites and you get the Full Ableton Suite...pricey, but worth it!
seosamh77
SubscriberI’d buy a mac for recording. You can also generally plug guitars directly into them without the need for an audio interface. can on my 27″ 2011 imac anyhow. I still use a scarlett 2i4 mind you as you get better control of the input and more connectivity options. But it is possible for to forgo the audio interface with a mac.
How did you go about doing that, through the mini-Jack?
DAW stands for Digital Audio Station
Erm... Workstation, the clue is in the "W".
How did you go about doing that, through the mini-Jack?
just get an adapter for your guitar lead, 1/4" to 3.5" and plug it in... Obviously might be a bit more difficult if one of the newer models and only on input output plug, mines has 2 though. I don't use it myself, as I say I use the audio interface for connecting more and gain input, 48v phantom power for mic and the likes, but it does work and latency is low, core audio is very good on it's own. (I get lower latency on the older mac.)
you'll want some virtual guitar amps to go with it though.
Buy this..
https://www.scuffhamamps.com/product/s-gear
You know those threads that start “I’m looking for a basic mtb for my girlfriend...” and end with arguments about whether a Santa Cruz or Spesh S-works is right?
That’s what this thread has become.
how does buy an old mac and stick an SSD in it, equate to a new santa cruz? 😆
You don't say how old (or how technically minded) your daughter is, but I think starting off small is probably a sensible idea - I'd echo yourguitarhero's advice above.
Assuming she wants to record herself playing, rather than be the next Chemical Brothers (i.e. programming beats and synths etc), you'll need a MIDI keyboard to get the notes (not the sound) into the computer. Something like this is USB so should plug straight into the laptop without any need for an interface*: https://www.dawsons.co.uk/m-audio-keystation-49-mk3-usb-keyboard-controller
You'll then need an app to arrange the songs, and convert those midi notes into other sounds - pianos / synths / samples. For a beginner the classic option is Garageband, but that's Apple only. Reaper or Ableton are both good but perhaps not the easiest to learn, especially for someone who is quite young or non-technical - anyone know if there's a good garageband alternative for PC?
The other option... is Garageband. Do you have an old iPad? You can connect a MIDI keyboard with an adaptor and record your songs onto that, easily set up drums and accompaniment to make demo songs quite simply etc. It's possibly the simplest way to get started!
* don't forget that MIDI keyboards like that don't have speakers or anything inside them - so if you're using one of those it has to be plugged into a computer (which is making the actual sounds).
Edited to remove some confused guff about interfaces
Yikes, seems like this thread became an arms race for a bit there while I was looking the other way. I have determined that her dad's old laptop is probably a bit pants (4Gb RAM, 1.1ghz processor) so I've started by looking at laptops. I've found three Lenovo ones (I can't afford a Mac!):
Why are they ^^ so much cheaper than this vv - is it the Intel brand name? (I am clueless) More to the point, will those cheaper ones work with a DAW (likely Ableton since I seem to know people who can help her with it if she gets stuck)?
If the cheaper laptops will work, then I'll get one of them plus look for a midi keyboard with a free Ableton package. Unfortunately she says she misses the keys on her 61 key keyboard, so it looks like a full size 88 might be in order (or certainly no smaller than the 61, which is annoying since the small ones are cheap!). If it's got to be a pricey laptop, I think the midi keyboard will have to wait 🙁 (Edit: actually, further digging suggests the existing Yamaha PSR-E333 keyboard will somehow connect - whoop!)
I think with the headphones and mic we already have, we'll be set for some recording. So, advice on the laptop welcome please!
(This is going to be her 12th birthday present, musically she's pretty technical - sings, plays piano, and understands music theory. Computers, I have no idea since I'm not technical enough to judge!)
It's the quality (read speed) of the processer. Which translates to how fast it can compute. An underpowered processor can struggle with things like virtual instruments in daws, and that coupled with the amount of ram can lead to issues with clicks and pops from the audio, and limited number of tracks. That said, that's really only relevant for someone wanting to use lots of virtual instruments with low latency. For someone starting out mostly just recording some loops and and the odd synth, it's much less of an issue and something cheaper would suffice imo.
I guess it depends on budget and how much you want something she might grow into vs something just to get her started.
For bang for buck I'd honestly look at a refurbed business laptop.
For £250 to 350 you can get an Intel i5 or i7 equipped machine with decent ram and an SSD (more ram and an SSD make life a lot easier).
These are machines that would have been £1000+ a couple of years ago, and will have had a relatively easy life. Businesses lease them, and then replace every couple of years.
Tier1online is one seller, but there are plenty of others.
https://soundcloud.com/user-124219968
A few things she's recorded - it's just the microphone with her playing along on the keyboard, so no production or anything (yet!). Thanks for all the advice, I think I'm equipped to ask the family for a whip round now!
Some great tips above.
My advice from personal experience:
Whatever you do, make sure daughter does not get bogged down too much in the tech.
DJ yoda produced superb albums using two cassette tape recorders back in the day.
Having limited means is a boost to creativity: Focus on the music first and don’t get paralysed searching for perfection!
All the best
Ps the track sounds really good already by the way, liked the voice and the arrangement!