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I'm looking to buy or build a new pair of wheels for my gravel bike. But I know very little about road/gravel bits so looking for some pointers.
Marginal preference to build myself, just because I fancy it.
What hubs should I look at? 12mm front, QR rear dropouts. Disc. I'm assuming 6 hole but only because it's all I've ever had. I guess I want lightish weight, easy to service and good parts availability. And I'd like the freehub to be much better sealed than my current Halo XCS which needs quite a regular strip down. Weight of that hub is listed as 325g, heavier than Hope Pro 2/4, which surprises me because I had assumed I wouldn't use some Pro 2s I have because of weight and spoke count. I guess I can save a chunk of weight compared to Hope MTB hubs.
And rims? I guess c.20mm internal width is good. Current ones are H Plus Son The Hydra which have been great. I don't need the second set to be stronger than these and I don't want heavier, but better value for money would be nice, if not a necessity. Presume I don't need deep aero things.
I'll probably use out and out road tyres (but not narrower than 28mm) on the second set and continue with gravel tyres on the existing ones. However, because existing rear is singlespeed only and second set is partly to enable me to fit gears should I so choose, I should probably keep the option for these to go off road on up to 40mm tyres.
Price? Well, I guess about £400 overall feels about right but I need to see what's available because I'd spend more for a significant difference to how the bike feels, or less if I'm not getting a benefit by spending more, if that makes sense.
Sorry for the waffle!
Just use XC MTB rims & hubs of your choice if you are going to use it properly off road. If it's just for putting slick tyres on and used as a +road bike use something narrower as they'll be lighter. In either case make sure they are tubeless ready
Shimano XT hubs.
See what rims Superstar have. 23mm ish.
I'm keen on cartridge bearings over cup n cone.
I think what I'm aiming for here is road wheels that are just that little bit more able to take some mild off road, rather than XC MTB stuff. Or do they end up being the same thing? My gravel bike is at the road end of the gravel scale and its off road time is easy on wheels I reckon - tends to be softer ground and I'm <75kg.
Thinking about it a bit more, my question could almost be distilled into simply "what disc road hubs do you recommend?"
XT rear hubs (IME) are a bit fragile in the freehub. The Deore ones are a lot tougher, something to do with the Pawl numbers.
As gravel is such a broad range (for now until the marketing folk add subdivisions) you really need to have a look at what terrain you'll be riding and how big your tyres will be.
As what's said up above, just buying mountain bike wheels would generally be ok for bigger tyres but I'd not want to run narrower tyres at high pressure on them. The opposite is true on some of the road type wheels, they do narrower tyres at higher pressures well but the rims can be a bit narrow for wider tyres at lower pressures.
If you favour cartridge then that rules out Shimano, lots of Campag and Fulcrum. Not to mention a few far east budget hubs.
I'd buy Hope but then they're pricey but will probably outlive your bike, the spares seem to be available for a long time and are easily available in the UK.
The Superstar hubs are also now made in the UK so could be an option.
Or either (depending on whether you fancy building a pair of wheels or buying off the shelf) buy a pair of DT Swiss wheels or DT Swiss hubs, spokes, rims and build them myself.
Budget wheels, just buy the Prime wheelset you fancy as they're meant to decent and very light for their cost.
Another reason not to buy Shimano hubs (and I'm generally a Shimano fan) is the availability of spare parts. Or even if you do find a spare part, it's often almost as expensive as the full hub.
XT rear hub
https://www.freewheel.co.uk/shimano-deore-xt-fh-m8000-m8010-deore-xt-freehub-varfhm80 @ £57.99
Free hub body
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/shimano-deore-xt-fhm8010-cassette-freehub-body-y38v98010/
£40.99
Dt-350 on a xc rim and sapim d-lite spokes would be sub £500, light and solid.
Hope on DT Swiss RR511db rims?
Yes the Hope freehub is more expensive than the XT one but as a percentage of full cost of the whole hub is less.
Plus, good luck buying new bearing races for the Shimano hubs when they're worn and pitted.
On the pre-built front, it's also hard not to have one's head turned by the weight of Hunt's offerings. Gravel Race Disc at 1459g is impressive for <£500 it seems, but does it come with a longevity/serviceability concern?
Dt-350 on a xc rim and sapim d-lite spokes would be sub £500, light and solid.
This. Am building some Pacenti Forza disc rims on DT 350 centrelocks. Should be £400ish, 1700g-ish and if my rim brake build (350 hubs, Forza rim brake rims) is anything to go by they'll be fast snd dependable over some fairly rough terrain.
Do it properly and treat yourself to a pair of Royce hubs. Quite the nicest hubs I've ever ridden and Cliff does MTB hubs as well as road.
Plus his customer service is excellent 🙂
Even if you're pretty handy at building wheels I'd highly recommend the ebook by Roger Musson on the subject. Costs less than a tenner and an invaluable reference
DT Swiss XR 1501 are very nice and you can get a set for the bargin price of £280 new -you may have to spend a bit more to get cassette as it comes with SRAM xd. Bankrupt bikes have the rear and there is a front on ebay - all new. Bankrupt bikes are in Birmingham and I had a wheel from them with no issues. Cant see you getting a better wheelset for the money. DT 240 hubs.
On the pre-built front, it’s also hard not to have one’s head turned by the weight of Hunt’s offerings. Gravel Race Disc at 1459g is impressive for <£500 it seems, but does it come with a longevity/serviceability concern?
If I was going pre-built I'd go Cycle Clinic (Borg) or Just Riding Along. Both will offer the same quality as Hunt, if not better, but much more customisable.
I feel a duty to promote both as I've been emailing both about various builds but every time fussiness and cheapness make me go self-build with DT hubs...
I think weight savings typically come at the hub. I doubt there are lighter aluminium rims than Pacenti (for a given depth) but my builds always seem to come out at 1700g/pair give or take. I think that's because I build 28 spoke with DT 350 hubs, a Bitex or Novetech hub probably comes in a bit lighter.
Having ordered a pair months ago I've just this weekend gotten round to building up a 20h
Ambrosio-P20 for the front of my road bike.
19/20mm-ish Internal, 27mm deep, Stealthy black, tubeless compatible, most importantly though they're only £15 an end (plus some postage) I've just order some more in 32h, for the same reason as you OP, to use as part of a 2nd gravel bike wheelset (already got some cheap hubs)...
If it's just to build a cheapo "B-team" wheelset I'd just go looking for some Novatec hubs off of the fleabays/Ali and get some ACI spokes from cycle basket...
Doing exactly this at the moment, for my incoming Camino frame.
Always used Hope Hubs on umpteen bikes where durability and pickup were key, could easily have gone Pro4 or more likely, RS4s. However, they are not cheap nowadays, not especially light and very hard to find used - original plan was used hubs and give them a freshen up.
As it is, I have bagged a BNIB pair of XTR M9000 series hubs for £140, they are impressively light.
Just debating whether to buy DT XR331 (XC MTB rims) or DT GR531s - the XR's are lighter, the GR531s are a new gravel rim, bit heavier as they are a bit deeper for 'aero' I guess. Not sure how much that matters to me doing 12mph everywhere.
I like DT rims as they have a nice shot peen type finish that looks good for a long time, they work tubeless well, the decals are replaceable and I really like the Squorx nipples and washers they come with, they build up easily and stay straight without crazy tension.
Did a set of Pro4 and XM481 for my trail bike earlier this year and they are ace.
Thank you all for your great suggestions.
Mulling this over overnight I think I'm going to shift to out and out road wheels though. I realised I can build a Pro2 rear I have on a R470 for a solid and not too heavy gravel rear for gears very cheaply, and with it there's no point in another front that'll do gravel because I've already got one. So then the second set could be road only and therefore much lighter.
@snotrag I've got Pro4/XM481 on my 160mm travel bike. I think they're ace too.
I got some Hope RS4s secondhand, and built then into some WTB KOM i21s. Reasonable weight, nice width for 38s, and have been zero maintenance over 2 years of commuting on roads and towpath, and general all round gravelling. Plus with Hope you get the option of changing axles relatively cheaply compared to some.
I built some WTB CX Team onto Novatec generic MTB hubs 4 years ago. They were my first ever wheel build and they are still going strong without even seeing a wheel jig in 4 years despite my lack of wheel-building expertise so they must be good
I run Chris King and DT 240s with upgraded ratchets on most of my wheels.
My new set of 650b gravel wheels were built with Hope RS4s.
I have never really had an issue with freehub pickup, but the RS4s are noticeably more 'laggy' offroad. They are a road hub, and pickup is less of a concern on the road where the pressure going through the wheels is more constant. Offroad however where the pressure is more 'staccato' and vairable, they have been found to be lacking.
Hope make great hubs, but for gravel wheels I would be tempted to go for a Pro4 hub which has better freehub pickup.
You can fit two more pawls to the RS4 and it'll have exactly the same pickup as the pro4. 🙂
In fact, I'm pretty sure the pickup is exactly the same, it's just it only engages 2 pawls instead of 4. I don't think they're on a staggered phase. I can't say I've noticed the difference between mine and the Pro4s on my MTB.
Edit: nope, both 44POE
Nope, the RS4 is specifically 2 pawl with no option to change to 4. From the Hope spec sheet, RS4 is 8 deg engagement and Pro4 is actually more (8.2 deg). Surprising actually (I stand corrected) that the road hub is faster than their offroad hub. And both are more than DT or King, and a whole lot more than an Industry Nine Hydra.
Yes the Hope freehub is more expensive than the XT one but as a percentage of full cost of the whole hub is less.
LOL, proper cyclist economics there.
Nope, the RS4 is specifically 2 pawl with no option to change to 4. From the Hope spec sheet, RS4 is 8 deg engagement and Pro4 is actually more (8.2 deg). Surprising actually (I stand corrected) that the road hub is faster than their offroad hub.
I've fitted two extra pawls to my 11 speed road freehub on my RS4, as I had them lying about from a spare freehub, and wanted to try.
As I said above, they are both 44 PoE (although the Pro4 is listed as 8.2 degrees between points, the RS4 8, but I presume this is just rounding - 360/44 is 8.18)
The 2 fewer pawls are why they list the RS4 as 'reduced drag'. However, Hope confirmed to me back in 2018 that the only difference between the two freehubs was the number of pawls included in the RS4 kit.
I don't want to derail this thread, just trying to point out that the engagement is not a reason to buy one over the other.
I'll just leave this here.....
Let me know how you would fit 2 extra pawls into this one.
Anyway, back on topic, faster engagement is more beneficial offroad (inc gravel) than on the road. Choose a hub with faster engagement if you can for gravel.
Ah, the sneaky buggers! XDR is road only, obvs. The Shimano driver on mine has 4 recesses. I'd pull it off to photo, but I can't be arsed to wrestle with that bloody freehub seal again 😀
Edit: lol! The 11sp road freehub listed there only has two recesses as well! What the hell is on mine? As it's 11sp road width! 😀
And also, black mark against Hope's info nr email I've just found from them!
Hope pro 4 on open pro ust wheels, db spokes. Hard to find a better build for the money.
They feel like a much, much more expensive pair of wheels.