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Just another day under these absolute cretins.
Grant needs to deal with a whole bunch of other transport and road safety issues before he can justify a propaganda war on bicycle users...
Do said number plates have sharp edges? Perhaps the anti-cycling brigade are just trying to cull the herd?
Needs to get cars in order first
I don't even pay road tax.
Bit more detail here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/16/registration-plates-and-insurance-for-cyclists-on-table-in-review-of-road-laws
This guy is, proven yet again, such a prick.
What an absolute bell end. I was ambivalent about the prison sentences for "killer cyclists" because it is vanishingly unlikely to actually impact anyone, but this is effing stupid and would affect everyone. And reduce the number of people cycling.
I hope his balls turn square and fester at the edges.
Whitehall review is also said to suggest cycling speed limits, along with licence penalty points and fines
See the killer cyclists thread, told you.
It was never about punishing at the extremes, it was to Introduce more widesweeping laws for everyone
This is all that the Tories have.
Distraction and populist bullshit. They know how it'll play to the Daily Wail brigade and the gammons and they know it'll take a load of comments and clickbait away from cost of living, Brexit, leadership etc so yep, wheel it out!
Shapps is an utter moron - as Transport Secretary he's presided over timetable chaos, strike actions, a total watering down of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail and he's done very little for Active Travel. He's also in an ongoing fight with TfL/Sadiq Khan, largely based on "me Tory, you Labour". Although he's marginally better than his predecessor, Chris Grayling so there's that small positive I suppose...
Still a bellend though!
I don’t even pay road tax.
Nobody does.
he’s marginally better than his predecessor, Chris Grayling
Not a particularly high bar to clear though is it? I have to deal with DfT on an almost daily basis at work. Constant u-turns, dreamt up overnight policy initiatives and generally officers at the end of their tether due to the politicians in charge.
Just trying to imagine a TDF uk stage with number plate and speed limits.
Whitehall review is also said to suggest cycling speed limits, along with licence penalty points and fines
Which would add even more requirements of the cyclist;
- You need a speedo to know what speed you are going if there is a speed limit (assuming theses are lower limits that 30 and 20 which are largely irrevelant to cyclists)
- You need a license to get penalty points (which assuming not a car driver you won't have)
Oh yeah, none of this has been thought through in the slightest. Knee jerk popularity thing designed to create some outrage from cyclists and a frantic circle jerk of joy for Daily Wail readers.
All cyclists to have speedometer = some sort of mandatory installation and standardisation process (££££), cycling licences to endorse with points, some sort of cycling ID/numberplate to identify the miscreants. It's totally unworkable and would cost billions but he doesn't care about that, he's just putting it out there as a standard anti-cycling clickbait (complete with the "I think cycling is wonderful but..." which is kind of equivalent to saying "some of my best friends are black / gay / immigrants but...")
So will my 7 year old niece need to have a speedo and number plate on her Disney Princess bike so she can ride to the park?
Not gonna happen. Won't get past any sort of scrutiny.
Just another load of ****
I can't wait to see all the frothy group tuggathons in the comments on the reports in papers and FB
Who the hells got time to enforce this anyway?
Hurrah, can we get a big UK plate for cycling abroad. Mainly so we can be avoided by sensible members of the planet.
Good luck with that Grant 🤣
[i]Particularly where you’ve got 20mph limits on increasing numbers of roads, cyclists can easily exceed those, so I want to make speed limits apply to cyclists[/i]
Ooh, does that mean the police will start enforcing the 20mph speed limits for cars too? I'm sure when the limits were brought in for Brighton & Hove, the police said they would not be actively enforcing them as they don't have the resources, and good road design involves making changes to reinforce the lower limit (different surfaces, a shared central lane with dashed cycle lanes that cars can use to pass each other, shared pedestrian space (no kerbs). Stuff thats not practical to do when you put a blanket 20mph limit across a small city)
How much will the subsequent "war on counterfeit number plates" cost?
What would the number plate apply to?
Frame? Already has a number normally, too small to read but a plate big enough to read isn’t going to work.
Forks? Wheels? Groupset? Saddle?
Not workable because people move bits around in ways they don’t with cars.
You could probably do it with Tesco specials, which are probably most correlated with the folk who want this (and probably should be tagged in some way).
Grant really needs to focus on more important and worthwhile projects,like garden bridges and tunnels under the Irish Sea.
It's just click bait. Have a look at the mail online and there's already 2900 comments.
I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested road tax for cyclists to get the daily mail readers really excited.
will never happen for the various reasons mentioned above, best to ignore the noise and carry on with your day
Mandatory cycling training for Daily Mail readers!!!
wow!!
(actually I just made that up)
A: it won't happen
B: it won't happen
C: it's distraction for daily mail readers away from the real current issues & gives them something to gloat and feel positive about.
"There's a hard core of cyclists who don't think the law applies to them"
Solution: make more laws for them to ignore.
Gammon vote grabbing exercise innit, see also any statements re immigration/Brexit/350 million for the NHS
Now the Tory covid gravy train is ending they need to find new ways to waste taxpayer money with their mates. £20 billion for an unworkable cyclist database sir?
I don’t even pay road tax.
Nobody does.
Yes,I know.
I must admit, I was wondering about these speeding cyclists I see everywhere, and the very real harm I see them doing everyday.
Sledge hammer for your nut, sir?
Where does the current law even stand with speeding on a bicycle?
Presumably if the police somehow clocked me doing 25mph in a 20mph they could fine me but in my defence how would I know if I am doing 20 or 25 as I don't have a speedo and I don't need a speedo by law?
More red meat for the Gammons.
IIRC you can’t speed on a bicycle on the road, as there is no limit.
What would be the chances of being caught speeding on a bike? I mean cars do it almost all the time and don't seem to be caught very often. Would all 9 (I think) bikes in my house need individual licenses? Or one license for each person (3). Going to cost a lot, does my 11 year old son have to pay? So many questions and so little thought from this utter moron in government.
“Particularly where you’ve got 20mph limits on increasing numbers of roads, cyclists can easily exceed those, so I want to make speed limits apply to cyclists".
Pah..uphill with a headwind me and my kids can often peak at 36mph.... with EASE.....
Honestly...I'd actually like them to roll this out, adn realise it's literally impossible to police/get going!!!
DrP
Grant is right lock em up i say
TBH, i wonder who they'll blame once the whole thing falls flat on it's face, again?
Leftie Lawyers?
Where does the current law even stand with speeding on a bicycle?
Presumably if the police somehow clocked me doing 25mph in a 20mph they could fine me but in my defence how would I know if I am doing 20 or 25 as I don’t have a speedo and I don’t need a speedo by law?
You can't be done for speeding although very occasionally in the past the Royal Parks have had "crackdowns" resulting in some gargantuan fines (far higher than motoring fines), most of which got overturned in court. Eventually even Richmond Park acknowledged that their supposed bye-laws didn't / couldn't apply to bikes.
You can be done for careless cycling though.
Since most speeding fines currently are applied by camera, you'd need cameras that could detect cyclists, take a picture and then somehow (number plates...) identify them and send them a ticket (cyclist database / licencing...)
None of this is ever going to happen, it would cost hundreds of billions, achieve zero gain for road safety and take a decade to implement. It is pure gammon fodder from the last days of a wildly dysfunctional government.
Honestly…I’d actually like them to roll this out, adn realise it’s literally impossible to police/get going!!!
Tis is my view, I don't think, even if a Transport Sec was stupid enough to introduce a white paper, it wouldn't get through any debate, and would be largely unenforceable once "in the wild"
daft solutions to non-problems,
Ha ha ha, not a chance of this happening. All it's doing is appeasing the Daily Mailer's and drawing attention away from other things by providing a great big... oh look, SQUIRREL!
Does ANY country in the world require cyclists to have numnber plates and mandatory insurance?
The insurance bit fair enough but I imagine us on STW are in the minority in that a good nunber will have 3rd party liability insurance via BC or CTC or similar already.
"Particularly where you’ve got 20mph limits on increasing numbers of roads, cyclists can easily exceed those, so I want to make speed limits apply to cyclists."
20mph? That's 32kmh!!! In all seriousness, head down and in the drops of my CX bike (it's what we called them before Gravel arrived), I could hit 32km/h on a downhill section of tarmac. I couldn't sustain that on the flat and I would have thought I'm a fairly average cyclist.
Who's he targeting? Chris Froome??
Moronic idea proposed by a cretin
He probably won’t even be in the job in 3 weeks.
Even if it was introduced, that’s one law I’d happily pay no attention to
****s gonna ****. Just more red meat for the golf club bores.
Who’s he targeting? Chris Froome??
To be fair, 20mph is a fast cruise on a decent road bike. I can come close to averaging that around Richmond Park with some sections much faster. And I'm far from the quickest around there.
It's not something that most people can achieve by accident though, you kind of have to be pushing to achieve it unless as you say you're on a descent.
SOmeone should ask him to go out and average 20mph+ for 1 mile himself and see how easy it is 😀
His Wikipedia page is worth a quick read. Edit history as well.
While it's easy to dismiss such ideas, and I have absolutely no concern it will ever come into law, it continues a divisive, selfish and petty attitude that so many in our country have.
you can’t speed on a bicycle on the road, as there is no limit
Interesting, as a group of us were stopped a few years ago by the Police when descending into a North Yorkshire village and we were told we were speeding and not to do it again...
If this came in, I'd also like to see a law that says "In order to keep your driving licence, you have to commute to work for a week every year by bike" It would equally stupid to try to enforce, but it would fun watching the Daily Mail comments section explode
What else did we expect from the man who thinks directors should get massive bonuses for failure and the staff take paycuts
About as likely to happen as those 40 new hospitals and the nuclear reactor every year
Just the usual gammon dog whistle
Its almost as if there was some really, really serious stuff in the news - inflation now being officially over 10%, for instance - that they'd like to distract everyone from...
Carlton Reid nails it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/carltonreid/status/1559803457040793600?cxt=HHwWgIC-hdy-xKUrAAAA
TLDR: it's bait for the anti-cycling gammons but will be quietly dropped once every expert has told them just how utterly stupid it is.
While it’s easy to dismiss such ideas, and I have absolutely no concern it will ever come into law, it continues a divisive, selfish and petty attitude that so many in our country have.
This! Added to by the fact it's the current Transport Secretary saying it. That means, like it or not, this idea is whilst completely barking mad is actually very mainstream now.
“Particularly where you’ve got 20mph limits on increasing numbers of roads, cyclists can easily exceed those, so I want to make speed limits apply to cyclists.”
A fairly fit road cyclist can exceed 20mph but it is not that easy (you have to put some effort in and know you are going fast) whereas the quote is implying that everyone can do it which is clearly not the case.
Will I be able to get a personalised number plate for my bike?
mert
Free MemberTBH, i wonder who they’ll blame once the whole thing falls flat on it’s face, again?
Leftie Lawyers?
Keep up, it's "BLM trans leftie inclusive EU asylum-seeking enemy-of-the-people lawyers" fault now
Honestly these shit-stirring ****s.
Those DM comments as well. "good now cyclists will obey the law"... okay Dorris, so you've never seen a car, three lorries and a van sail straight though a red light like i do every effing morning?
Brave voice of reason presenting actual facts:
Reptilian Overlords, Flat Earth, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
Sorry to hear that you have to live in fear. But chances are a car is much more likely to kill or seriously injure you going through a red light. Last year cars killed almost 50 people going through red lights vs none for cyclists believe it or not.
...downvoted to oblivion
Strangely I always assumed speed limits did apply to cyclists.
The Times quotes Shapps as saying "I'm not attracted to the bureaucracy of registration plates. That would go too far." The Guardian references a Mail article in order to wind up its readers. Some interesting media dynamics there...
So, just me who always tries to set the speed camera off on a particular section of road that tends to be on a return of a regular ride? 30 limit, not managed it yet, even with a prevailing wind and near killing myself!
speeding? I thought we rode too slowly?
20 on the flat is easily acheivable on a road bike
back in my road riding days there was a speed camera on a downhill in a 30 zone. I tried to set it off a number of times, never managed it.
edit - beaten to it by 2 minutes
Will I be able to get a personalised number plate for my bike?
I'm going to get in line first and get "A1", wait a few decades and sell it for millions... actually maybe this is BoJo's retirement plan.
What would the number plate apply to?
The registration number would be on a tabard I believe.
Here's how I like to respond to Daily Mail readers on this one:
I think it's great we have a government finally taking cycling seriously. And one prepared to invest general tax payer's money into cycling on the same scale as motoring. It'll also be great to see the police giving stolen bikes the same priority as stolen cars. Better/stricter speed limit enforcement for all road users will be much safer. And of course, this will also mean cyclists are finally given equal status to cars on our roads.
(Then watch their little faces drop as they realise the real implications of something like this. You can always follow up with...)
Oh, I'm guessing as part of this a lane of all motorways will be for cyclists now?
Brave voice of reason presenting actual facts:Reptilian Overlords, Flat Earth, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago
Sorry to hear that you have to live in fear. But chances are a car is much more likely to kill or seriously injure you going through a red light. Last year cars killed almost 50 people going through red lights vs none for cyclists believe it or not.
…downvoted to oblivion
I know that.
Everyone on here knows that.
In fact, even Grant Shapps and the DfT know that but they're not interested in facts, it's a pure culture war and you can't argue culture war with facts.
It's natural for transport professionals to respond with facts, logic and data but that was what happened with Remain vs Leave and all the Leavers did was go "wah wah wah, we've had enough of experts, take back control".
It's the hard-right using cyclists (an easy outgroup) as a scapegoat to blame for their own complete lack of competence.
Will I be able to BUY a personalised number plate for my bike?
FTFY
Grant Shapps is a massive bellend.
Being debated on LBC right now.
Apparently cyclists are speeding through 20mph urban zones, way above the speed limit.
“There’s a hard core of cyclists who don’t think the law applies to them”
Solution: make more laws for them to ignore.
Exactly. Investing money in education and enforcement of existing rules, for all road users, is clearly not an option.
We all know why this is bollocks - most of it was ruled out by this government at the last consultation - and we all know why it's been "announced" as the latest dead cat/squirrel.
It's nicely pulled apart on his Twitter. I doubt he'll read and understand it though. Or care if he does. Prick.
The registration number would be on a tabard I believe.
I was being facetious about the personalised numberplate, because this was my understanding too.
So we'll be OK then because all the civil liberties moaners who were up in arms about how ID cards would prevent them exercising their lawful rights to carry out crime, (or some bullshit I didn't understand) a few years ago will be all over this.
It'd be better if I had my registration tattooed on my arm. I'm sure someone rolled out a pilot study on this in the 1930's... 🤔
20 on the flat is easily acheivable on a road bike
Is it?!? I'm gonna say it's only sustainable for a pretty small percentage of cyclists.
luckily only plates can be cloned, and no one has invented tabard cloning yet...
20 on the flat is easily acheivable on a road bike
We're onto Schrodinger's Cyclists.
Simultaneously hurtling recklessly at way above the speed limit while also crawling along in the centre of the lane holding up all the traffic.
There's a whole bingo list like that:
"clad in their garish spandex" while also invisible in all-black.
riding on the pavement while also weaving recklessly through traffic.
Depends what you mean by sustainable most riders with a bit of fitness can do a 30min 10mile TT on a road bike.
I would wear my first speeding ticket as a badge of honour. Anyone else try to get a sad face out of the "this is your speed" electric signs!?
speeding? I thought we rode too slowly?
Schrodingers Cyclist, both speeding and holding up traffic at the same time.
Damn, typing too slowly
As many say, it's a load of rubbish, at a time when the tories are looking at scything the civil service, are they really going to bring in a whole raft of legislation and regulation, a licensing department, etc for probably 100 million bikes that are in the UK.
Again, as said on this thread before, it's just the tories playing to the gammon and white van man, it's just unworkable, and if they spent all that money and effort on it, are the police going to actually do checks, are they going to change their ANPR to catch cyclists, traffic stops of bicycles, you couldn't make it up.