[Closed] Furloughed

Mate of mine is a design engineer in Bus industry, he's expecting it this week too.

More mates in aviation have been told redundancies are coming, not surprisingly, the ficklest, twitchiest industry there is.

Site Investigation here, will be Furloughed from 1st April I think. Wifes an architect and its being talked about as well.

Managed to survive multiple rounds of redundacy over the years so it had to catch up with me eventually!

My missus got the news yesterday. She was working from home but was told to stop. Will get the 80% pay next month as her normal salary.

Yay! Now I'll have all day to ride my bike! Oh wait 😭

Furloughed all staff yesterday. Most difficult decision I have ever had to make. The uncertainty of the duration is what’s getting to me.

the wifes waiting to hear, they were told it would be happening yesterday just waiting to find out who's working and who's furloughed.

Can you help explain? I'd never heard that word until this week

Does it mean you're effectively not working but not being paid by your employer but your job is still there once this is over?

And that UK plc pays you the ~80%?

All our office staff across 30 branches have been furloughed as of 31st March.
The company is making up the difference and they'll all get full pay until further notice.

Our branch is carrying on working.

Other half is as of today, but waiting on hearing whether she's been given authorisation to restart WFH as she has been all week.

Our branch is carrying on working

Ah, special branch.

Happening to my wife next week who works in admin for a construction/roofing firm. Still not sure how long for, I'd place my bets on 3 months. From what I understand, the company lets HMRC know who is furloughed, and next pay day they should get 80% or up to £2.5k of monthly salary paid still by the company, with no expectation to actually do any work.

Will just be the 80% for us, not sure the company could afford the top up. Just come to the realisation its basically quantitative easing/printing money isnt it? Instead of banks and businesses hoarding in cash reserves they are just pumping magic money in to the publics pockets so we can keep on consuming.

Does it mean you’re effectively not working but not being paid by your employer but your job is still there once this is over?

And that UK plc pays you the ~80%?

pretty much - its actually not working rather effectively not working. Employees who are being prevented from working by the current situation. UK plc pays the employer to pay the employees. It means that the company retains a functioning team to return to action and also admisintratvely for the government its one claim to deal with per employer compared to hundreds of individual claims in each instance.

Just put a load of staff into furlough, company is making up the 20% difference for at least the next 3 weeks, to be reviewed. Staff on furlough can't work, we've just told our mobile guys they can't even drive the vans. One asked if he could still take calls from customers, the answer was no. Any form of work and liability for the pay reverts back to the employer. Trouble is like much coming out of this government there's still a lot of unknowns.

I'm furloughed from the end of this month. Working from home until then. But I work for a supplier to JLR so if they shut down there is no demand for parts and if we're not selling parts then we have no money coming in. Hopefully being stuck at home and not going out anywhere I'll be able to save the equivalent of the 20% somehow. Not done the numbers yet but it's going to be close.

Waiting to hear on Monday, union's in discussion. Apparently the company isn't keen on the government plan for some reason, I think they'd rather get rid of some areas of the business entirely and try and get some open ended concessions from everyone left. There was zero trust in the company at  board level anyway so whatever they do people won't believe it's for the right reasons, especially after years of record profits.

A "mate of a mate" says he has been furloughed but is still working. Apparently it will be great for his company's cash flow.

I hope that was just a story, because too much of that will **** it up for everyone.

A “mate of a mate” says he has been furloughed but is still working. Apparently it will be great for his company’s cash flow.

I hope that was just a story, because too much of that will **** it up for everyone.

Theres plenty of time when this is all over to prosecute fraud.

My missus is an employment lawyer - pretty busy as you can imagine. She’s been begging clients to furlough rather than just shut & lay off staff.

Looks like I will be furloughed shortly.
Seem a bit annoying that you're not allowed to do any work while furloughed. Otherwise I could do a couple of hours per week checking over the empty site etc.

MrsSB has been furloughed from a small commercial property agents.
She's getting the 80% and her employers are topping up to her normal salary.

She's currently asleep in the sun on the sofa in the garden 😠

Wife has been furloughed, as long as her job is still there at the end of this then it's fine.

30k to keep the kids out of my hair whilst I attempt to work from home, doesn't seem a bad deal to me.

We've gone through a staged process, some have gone already, some going tomorrow & some going the week after. We have a core of the business still functioning due to the industries we work in, & us as the director level staff are working all the way through, as at some point we will have the phase the business back online.

I'm expecting it from the end of the week for both Mrs C and I.

From what I've read there seems to be some clarification still to come out (unless I've missed updates). Still needs clarity if the £2500 is just the employees basic salary or includes things like employer NI and pension contributions. If it does from what I've read the bit which goes towards basic pay will be a good chunk less than £2500. And you still pay tax and NI (and possibly your pension contribution) out of that too. So if you are lucky enough to be on say £40K or £50Kpa you are going to see a very considerably drop in your take home. An employee on £50K on the auto enrolment pension costs an employer £57,000 in total. £2.5K X 12 = £30K pa so that's a 48% drop in gross income. A lot better than no income at all mind and personally very glad that the least well off PAYE employees with the least amount of wiggle room will get proportionally closer to their normal wage than people like me will.

Not furloughed, but pay is being cut for at least 2 months. At least I'll have something to do.

@TheDTs

Furloughed all staff yesterday. Most difficult decision I have ever had to make. The uncertainty of the duration is what’s getting to me.

This. I feel for you. Just had to do the same.

@WildHunter2009 - Who do you work for, I'm in the same industury.

@convert see this link:
https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2020/mar-2020/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-furlough-guidance

The £2.5k being mentioned (or 80% of wage if lower) is the maximum 'grant' HMRC will pay the employer to help cover the wage. As well as covering Employers NIC and pension contributions on top of that.

As mentioned in the link, it's actually more of an employment law issue around whether an employer can pay an employee less than they are contracted or whether the contract can be renegotiated.

itsonlymelee
Member
@convert see this link:
https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2020/mar-2020/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-furlough-guidance
/blockquote>

Thanks - the best description I have seen.

 

somewhatslightlydazed
Member
A “mate of a mate” says he has been furloughed but is still working. Apparently it will be great for his company’s cash flow.

I hope that was just a story, because too much of that will **** it up for everyone.

At the minute we want more of it, so the more companies put their workers on furlough the better, and it'll help put the economy on pause and fight the virus.

If companies don't put people on furlough, it'll lead to redundancies and it'll reduce the fight against the virus.

So every company should be encouraged to put their employees on furlough if possible and claim the 80% and pass it on..

It's a good thing at the minute.

Furloughed from yesterday.
Large earthworks firm,for at least three weeks.

We’re furloughed from close of business tomorrow; our UK factories closed Wednesday 5pm.
Three weeks then review.
I’m in an interesting position as I’m a contractor until 31st. Then technically unemployed. Then I start doing the same role as a permanent employee on 6th April. I’ve been told that nothing changes there, so as of that day I’ll be getting the 80% of the new job’s salarY, pro-rats obvs. Could’ve been worse, I could have been going into full-on unemployment, and as self employed would get bugger all help from Boris

Could’ve been worse, I could have been going into full-on unemployment, and as self employed would get bugger all help from Boris

Hold fire an hour or two with that thought...

I've also seen some pretty impressive inequity.

Teams where one of the two doing the same job has to go. One member has got on and adapted to the WFH world well and is being very professional. The other appearing in meetings wearing pjs, going offline for periods without reason and basically not really working in any way you would describe as useful. Employer does not have the time or the means to performance manage the poor performer so they get to sit on their arse all day on full pay (company has made the decision to top up) whilst the one making the effort to save the company gets to keep on working and gets exactly to the penny the same reward for it. You'd like to think karma or bonus or something would make up the difference but it probably won't.

Could’ve been worse, I could have been going into full-on unemployment, and as self employed would get bugger all help from Boris

Well that's it announced.

Those who managed to 'massage' their figures to minimise the profits and those that seemingly run small companies but oddly seem to pay for everything cash are going to seem their wings clipped for a few months. Those that report their accounts honestly should be seen right it seems.

Is the £2.5k taxable, or what you'd see on your payslip for someone who reaches the upper limit?

Gross pay so yes taxable. Look at the link onlymelee put above - best I have seen.

Cheers, missed the link.

So glad you pointed me to that. The wife is supposed to change jobs first week of April. If the new company gets into difficulty, they wouldn't be able to furlough her.

Here’s one for you.
A mate gave his notice in to his current firm at the start of Feb, 8 weeks notice with nothing to go to and has been in the garden since then. He’s not found a job for obvious reasons.
Left on good terms so his boss has got in touch and asked him if wants to be furloughed at 80% of salary as it cost the company nothing.
He’s said yes on the justification that he’s have found a job we’re it not for this fun and games.

How does that sit with the STW moral compass?

I’m in an interesting position as I’m a contractor until 31st. Then technically unemployed. Then I start doing the same role as a permanent employee on 6th April. I’ve been told that nothing changes there, so as of that day I’ll be getting the 80% of the new job’s salarY, pro-rats obvs.

I thought it was 80% of salary based on February 2020 earnings?

If your monthly salary is £2,500 pcm, once tax and NI are deducted it leaves £2,003 as take home assuming no other deductions. Or 80% of your monthly salary. What is the employer topping up? They have received £2,000 which goes to you. If they pay you 80% of take home then the other 20% has gone AWOL. That 20% has come from HMRC to them!

Edit - or are they paying just tax / NI to HMRC?

Remnants of the company (events industry) put on it from Tuesday. We made a load of people redundant last week, have no cash coming in for the forseeable future, and what little was left in the coffers after some earlier mismanagemnet and the usual dead Jan/Feb has gone on the redundancies. It pretty much came down to a choice of take the Furlough offer or bankrupt us, as to pay the remaining wages for "essential" staff would mean another, heftier, round of redundancies, which we then couldn't pay.

I'm on a decent wage, and I've been there long enough to be quite expensive to get rid of, so I'm pretty happy to live with the 80%. Basically means no "play" money, but that's not too much of a hardship at the mo.

Glad to see our freelance site staff (most of my mates) are going to get looked after too, although it amuses me that the ones who have been sharp with their accounts will do rather worse than the more straight-up ones.

OAP- the 80% or £2500 is based on your total cost to the company so includes employers NI and employers pension payment. In theory the employer pays you as normal and claims 80% or £2500 from the HMRC. So they have the gap as a cost.
Trouble is some employers will say we’re getting £X from the HMRC so that’s what we’ll pay you. However, under employment law that’s a breach of contract, the employee has to agree to any different pay figure. Which it is where it will all go tricky.
Given that the IT side hasn’t been built yet employers maybe waiting a while.

The only people who won’t be furloughed are payroll staff who have to still pay the wages and do the submission to HMRC to get the money back

claims 80% or £2500 from the HMRC.

What had thrown me was thinking it was 80% of the median income for the UK which is £30,353. The £2,500 as 80% would make sense given the basic rate band is £37,500.

Furloughed worker as of yesterday. I work for an Electrical contractors so a few folk have stayed on to keep estimating and contracts going as we still have a few tenders to submit and the sites were still open yesterday but not sure about from today onwards.

Pretty sure we're going to see a big dip in the workload coming out of this.. whenever that would be.. and we will most likely see a few in the bag projects we had lined up being shelved as clients might decide not to refurbish their fancy offices and just make do and hunker down. This will leave impending redundancy for many industries that were just about becoming boyent after the whole Brexit slow down.
I'm way too much of a pessimist to think that there will be much light at the end of this tunnel.

median income for the UK which is £30,353.

TJ would have you believe that’s well over the average.

I’m a finance bod for a construction co. Been running numbers for the boss today, I expect to be furloughed eventually. Very hard to have a cash flow discussion when I know how much cash the directors have pulled out, vanity purchases that have gone through the books: Director loans outstanding and they still want to put £200k into their SSAS before the end of the tax year.

So when do the payments from the gov actually go to the companies for the 80% ?
Looks like the self employed money does not become payable until June......

Who knows, the mechanism to report is yet to be decided. Probably around the time they get the IT solution to the Eire/NI border.

In the meantime, companies are to pay staff and their NI/PAYE as usual

Just repeating what I posted elsewhere, all our five sites are now furloughed, we’re guaranteed the 80%, our site boss is pushing for a 20% top-up, which maybe possible due to the money coming into the business from the storage of vehicles waiting to go for sale/auction.
I don’t think anyone is going to gripe about getting 80%, with our jobs safe, the extra 20% would be wonderful.

In the meantime, companies are to pay staff and their NI/PAYE as usual

And there lies the problem with all this. With sweet FA coming in, how will they do that, let alone top up wages

Might want watch Martin Lewis on ITV right now if you have questions

Currently furloughed for three weeks as of yesterday. Already seeing the 80% in our pay packet for this month ( the last few days of this month go into the March slip).

Was looking for a new job but that's on hold now.

Our company furloughed 200 mobile Fire/Security Engineers today, they are asking for volunteers from other areas of the business for Furlough/Redundancy/unpaid leave/etc.
I think i'll be OK for a couple of weeks as i'm a project manger who can work from home and i've got a backlog of months of documentation to do.
However i'm aware i'm just a number on a balance sheet so if the leadership decide to furlough the whole department i'll go with it.
Scary times, thankfully my wife is a teacher but we can't quite get by on one wage.

Email yesterday explaining the process - waiting to see what will happen

Were supposed to be furloughed by the 1st April. 80% from government and 75% of the remaining balance by the company. So about 95% overall pay, which accounting for the fuel i normally use will mean im better off, so happy with that.

I’ve also seen some pretty impressive inequity.

Teams where one of the two doing the same job has to go. One member has got on and adapted to the WFH world well and is being very professional. The other appearing in meetings wearing pjs, going offline for periods without reason and basically not really working in any way you would describe as useful. Employer does not have the time or the means to performance manage the poor performer so they get to sit on their arse all day on full pay (company has made the decision to top up) whilst the one making the effort to save the company gets to keep on working and gets exactly to the penny the same reward for it. You’d like to think karma or bonus or something would make up the difference but it probably won’t.

Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but if the employer is 'topping up' from the 80% furlough pay, then neither of them should be working at all. That's the whole point - if they can work, whether physically present at work or at home, they shouldn't be furloughed.

Apologies if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, but if the employer is ‘topping up’ from the 80% furlough pay, then neither of them should be working at all. That’s the whole point – if they can work, whether physically present at work or at home, they shouldn’t be furloughed.

Don't worry - you have the wrong end of the stick.

Two employees - one being retained working, the other furloughed. The employer chose to furlough the one who had proved in the first week to be useless at homeworking and kept the better, more professional employee working. Both will however still get paid exactly the same as the company chose (credit to them) to top up all furloughed staff as an organisation wide policy. The one still working is mildly peeved that their colleague gets to sit on their arse whilst they are still hard at it trying to save the company and therefore the jobs of both.

I wonder if eventually if this goes on for a while if companies will draw up a furlough rota if that's legit - group A work April whilst group B are furloughed then vice vera in May.

TJ would have you believe that’s well over the average

Depends if you do average earnings or average full-time.

I was furloughed on Tuesday. So in. 80% while the government puts it up.

Our outgoings will be a lot less with the curfew, so not too concerned in the short term. And no point stressing about what's going to happen after the outbreak- we've got to get through it first!

But filling my days with Joe Wicks, extending the swing so both kids can go on it now and pressure washed the front of the house. Garden will finally get the work it needs too.

I've got faith that my employer will do everything in his power to come back from this.

Just found out I'm furloughed. I work in the outdoor industry selling climbing equipment, but with almost all the shops shut, there's not much to do anyway.

Some good info on here for Employers, but still worth the read for anyone

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#what-youll-need-to-make-a-claim

Turns out I can’t be furloughed as I’m not an employee at the start of the furlough period

So I’ll get the last two days of my contract after all, then I start working, not furloughed, on 6th April as originally planned. And I get three days off in between, again as planned

Worst fears realised today. Wife was about to change jobs for pretty much the same salary. New employer gave her the heads up that, as we suspected, they wouldn't be able to furlough her.

Her current employer refused to let her withdrawal here notice so they won't furlough her. A lovely **** you after 14 years. She thought she was leaving on good terms. ****s!

Her current employer refused to let her withdrawal here notice so they won’t furlough her. A lovely * you after 14 years. She thought she was leaving on good terms. *!

Does she have any good relationships with people who are senior but not necessarily the decision maker? If you can get a few sympathetic ears and voices they may be able to influence, partially if it’s a smaller firm.
I say this as I know someone who’s done just that. Similar situation, big boss with no connection to her said no, he tapped up his line manager and the FD who he knew well and they sorted it for him.
Big boss didn’t know him and so had no loyalty to him, the others knew he was a good guy, had worked hard for the firm and so should be looked after.

It's head of department who's being a dick. Email just gone off to the CEO, after all, nothing to lose now.

Wife got furloughed today. She's a criminal defence solicitor so is also still classed as a key worker in the judiciary.

Quick question, how many of you on Furlough are being topped up to full pay by the company (the 20%). We're currently furlough plus top up for the first 3 weeks of furlough, looks like that might change and we're interested in what other firms are doing. Looking at the previous posts quite a few on Furlough maybe 30% currently topping up and possibly 10% to 20% have gone on full melt down and had to let people go.

Cash flow/profitability is obviously key but we don't want to let anyone go. Whilst many are appreciative of what we're currently doing we want to explain why we might have to drop to the 80% and explain that we've already gone beyond many other companies (if that's genuinely the case).

Not furloughed, just a 50% pay cut.

The employees at my work that have been furloughed have the option of using holidays to top up their pay to 100%.

Quick question, how many of you on Furlough are being topped up to full pay by the company (the 20%).

Not furloughed yet though half the company are.

No top up. Small company whose only costs/outgoings are payroll and office costs. (and income is based on doing work, paid on completion, of which there is currently very little). It is quite clear that any money we get from the company now is money we would not get later.

Furloughed today. Frustrating as I received an open letter this week from the Secretary of State for Business thanking the construction industry for continuing to support the economy and urging us to carry on.

Plenty of operatives on site (being carefully managed to comply with distancing - has required a major review of method statements) but all the suppliers and merchants have shut down due to general confusion so no materials on site.

So we are shutting down projects such as a medical supplies distribution centre (mentioned on the news yesterday) only a month or so from completion, critical care homes which could be of use shortly, even port infrastructure to help border control post Brexit. FFS this is so frustrating, the Govt need to give clearer instruction on business strategy.

And personally it looks like the Govt will take back in tax 40% of the £2500 so things will be a bit tight here (assuming I've a job to go back to after all this). At least we're all fit and healthy, so counting some blessings.

I could furlough myself, but being a company director it wouldn't be worth much - less than I normally actually pay in tax each month.

Fortunately, after a week and a half without work, managed to pick up a few weeks more work

Cheers for the additional feedback, sounds like some of you have had it really tough.

The company that my wife worked for on the 28th February and still technically works for until next Thursday are refusing to furlough her beyond that date because she resigned. They're claiming that to furlough her goes against government guidelines on the furlough process. It's clear that they are wrong, they are actually acting contrary to the guidelines, but how do you win a battle like that?

I was furloughed on the 28th, no top up by my company.  Which means I’m on half my salary, uncertain about a significant bonus due in June as well.  Email fired off this afternoon to see if I can ‘Furlough’ the use of my company car to try and save some money...it’s not been used since I was furloughed.  I know i won’t get sympathy, nor am I looking for it (remember some of the disdain shown here for higher rate earners) but with a mortgage, financial commitments and 2 kids to support I’m panicking.  I have savings but feel absolutely deserted by my employers.

for me it’s the uncertainty of the whole situation that causes anxiety. So many questions around tax, pensions, company car contributions etc.  I just don’t know what I’m going to take home over the next few months.  Which makes budgeting difficult.

Ultimately i guess I should be thankful my family are currently all healthy

@russyh I hope it works out OK for you, the banks are apparently getting sorted with mortgage holidays which might help you? I spoke to HSBC last week (about something else) and they said they were just waiting on guidance before they started offering them.

My (large) company has just started furloughing people, they’ll be on full pay at least for now, obviously that could change. My mate in the same job, different company is now on full topped up pay too.

Thanks, Barclays have accepted our mortgage holiday application which is a god send.  Plus I’m told I can Furlough my company car which will save significant money.  Its all happening so fast, hence why I’m a little disappointed my employers have not at least topped up people’s salary for April.  I’m fortunate to have enough savings and borrowing capacity to keep going to some time.  We have sat down as a family and looked at our expenditure and how we can cut costs. I will say that being locked down has meant our day to day put goings have all but disappeared!  Food costs have obviously gone up, but we are not driving any where so no fuel, no Starbucks each morning or M&S sandwiches each day!  Soon adds up.  I’m lucky in that we have not over committed to borrowing compared to peers.  So we as a family can keep operating frugally.  But come pay day it will be a shock, as I still have not had it confirmed by HR or payroll how I will be taxed! What my deductions will be...etc.   Like I say I don’t expect sympathy, just genuinely worried.

Russyh have you got a log on to HMRC? Might be worth updating your co car info there to get a new tax code asap and lower your tax bill.

I thought it was 80% of salary based on February 2020 earnings?

There's options for those that gain to either average annual earnings or earnings for the same month last year. I'm fortunate that my wage won't trouble the maximum limit so I get 80% of earnings (yay a pro-cyclist at 57) but no top-up as cash flow will not permit this without breaking the company.

I had a laugh about the CFO (up there) not understanding the difference between average and median.

Those of you with wage bills to pay it is possible to run payroll, inform HMRC of the amount and then pay the wages. Which should help with your cash flow, Mrs Sandwich does taxes for a living and they are training up to help out when the system goes live. If you are a smaller business with a rates rebate equivalent to the rates your council should have been in touch with an offer of a grant (£10k to £25k depending on circumstances which should also help with rent due). Good luck.