So what are we expecting? More Max world domination? Some closer racing this time, maybe? Personally, I can't see Red Bull and Max Verstappen dropping back too much, but we'll see!
Soo, F1 2024 bingo, I'll start:
1. Snarky comments between Ocon and Gasly over team radio
2. Albon puts in a surprisingly good performance
3. Fred Vasseur makes me laugh in a pre or post race interview
4. Leclerc does something surprisingly nice for a racing car driver
5. Max sounds like he's not even broken a sweat over team radio as he crosses the line to win yet another race
Big manufacturers underwhelming at the start of the season, after talking about how they'll challenge RB this year.
The same manufacturers complaining that whatever RB do is unfair and spend months trying to do the same with much failure.
More bland tracks with bland races.
Looking forward to C4 highlights and not having to listen to that Crofty guy. I cancelled my Sky Sports thing today, which I wanted to do for years but wife and daughter didn't agree. They now do and even them accept that it's become a bit shit and not worth paying anything for it any longer.
I cancelled my Sky Sports thing today
It is incredibly expensive for what you get. I'm lucky enough to get it as a freeby, but if I didn't I'd def be watching Channel 4 instead
#threadtitlefail
Needs will contain spoilers in thread title!! 🤣
I only watch on Sky as I use my dad’s account to watch on SkyGo.
I never contribute to these threads but it pains me to see the new one without a <spoilers> warning in the title.
Can the mods edit it?
Yeah i can't see the others catching up much. I don't think Hamilton will ever get another driver's championship and we have to look forward to Max domination for at least another 2 years.
I must admit, I've not really watched the highlights of many races this year. I still read about F1 but the actual races have become somewhat predictable.
Isn’t 2024 the year Karen says their harsh aero time fine/punishment will really kick in
second half of 2023, worryingly. They got around it by being so fast they didn’t need to develop the car from about August…
Hamz to RB in 2025 just as Merc regain dominance. toto becomes Dorothy's dog once more and Ted Kravitz becomes chief steward
It is incredibly expensive for what you get. I’m lucky enough to get it as a freeby, but if I didn’t I’d def be watching Channel 4 instead
Sure but across 2 households it's OK and would have been acceptable value if F1 was more interesting. I have no issues with Max's dominance but I have an issue with the Corporate vibe that has become a bit cringe and not always that easy to avoid. I also have an issue with the amount of resources dedicated to limit the impact of aero in relation to the results. Although I guess a lot of it is because / thanks to Newey's genius and / or Mercedes' catastrophic aero choice with the podless solution which they stil haven't recovered from andis causing them to start 2 years behind next year.
I still read about F1 but the actual races have become somewhat predictabl
Away from the max show this year has been great - early form from Aston, occasional glimpses of what Ferrari could be if they only stopped getting in their own way, merc slowly become competitive and then losing it, mclaren showing merc how you come back from having a bad start to the year, Albon putting the Williams where it has no right to be, Liam Lawson playing an awesome cameo and making perez look even more on a shoogly peg... Plenty happening of you look away from the top step.
Anyhow 2024 - hopefully Andretti will be decided long before the season starts, and the audi rumours go away. Someone other than red bull will look fabulous in testing, and the field will be closer but still not close enough to max.
toto becomes Dorothy’s dog once more
I don't get the reference! What is it?
I don’t get the reference! What is it?
😲
I just hope someone challenges the red bull.
I don’t get the reference! What is it?
Perhaps Merc have moved their US office - I don't think they're in Kansas anymore.
Just a click of the heels and HM wins the 21 championship
I suspect the overall result at the end of the season will be closer but Verstappen will probably get another title without loosing too much sweat. I doubt if RB will have another year where they can stop upgrading mid season to concentrate on the 2025 car though. I think the chasing pack will be too close for that.
As much as I enjoy the thought of Horner having to stump up millions, this is pretty ridiculous. Why are they charged fees at all?
I read somewhere Max’s super license renewal will be north of $1million too, as a result of all his winning.
Verstappen will probably get another title without loosing too much sweat.
I don't think he will TBH. Firstly; it depends who his team mates is, If it's Perez again, then yep, no threat, but if it's a Norris or similar, then it may not be as straight forward. Secondly Obviously the teams like Mercedes and Ferrari will be closer still, and maybe even McLaren and Aston Martin may be fast as well and Thirdly; if that's the case, Verstappen will have to fight, and so far every time that happens he gets frustrated and makes errors, To be fair we didn't see much of that behaviour this year, but then he mostly pranced off into the distance never to be seen again, but with other teams more or less as good, he'll just start to drive into people again, or force them off the track. 2024 could be a good season.
Why are they charged fees at all?
I think it was agreed ages ago as a way of getting money the the FIA and from them to fund lower series.
The closest team I can see to really challenging Red Bull next year is McLaren. They turned an absolute dog of a car around into something regularly on, or very near the podium.
They seem to have a grasp of what was wrong with the car, how to fix it and all the talk of releasing something a lot more competitive has actually been realised.
Mercedes have improved, but still don't seem to understand the car & it's performance envelope. It is not clear to me that they will get on top of it for next year. I'm hoping they do.
Ferrari have a competitive car, but I almost can't take them seriously. Yesterday for example....Sainz asking what the strategy is, as he's a bit lost and the reply is........erm, we are hoping for a safety car. OK, then.
They also don't seem to have got on top of the high tyre wear.
Aston. Performed well, but I don't think they are quite there yet.
And with the closer ties between Alpha Tauri & Red Bull that was announced earlier in the year, who knows what that will throw up. A couple of mini-Red Bulls getting in between proper Red Bulls and all the other challengers. A useful asset for Red Bull, for sure.
It is not clear to me that they will get on top of it for next year
I think the W13/14 car is done isn't it? the W15 is a brand new design. That will look pretty much like the RB I'd have thought.
Yesterday for example….Sainz asking what the strategy is,
Don't crash in qualifying? I know what you mean 'bout Ferrari's race strategies, but Sainz didn't really help himself
nickc
I think the W13/14 car is done isn’t it? the W15 is a brand new design. That will look pretty much like the RB I’d have thought.
But, they don't seem to have got on top of this car. Some weekends it's almost there, other weekends it's miles away. And even when it's good, it's still a country mile from Max & the Red Bull.
I am not convinced that they understand the physics around the new aero requirements to create a Championship winning car. They made some hefty upgrades this year, but they only really edged forwards, whereas McLaren made an almighty leap once they realised what they needed to do.
I really hope they pull something quick out of the bag, but I just anticipate the first tests being more of an 'oh, bugger' style response, that 'yes, we nailed it'. Hopefully I'll be wrong!
The closest team I can see to really challenging Red Bull next year is McLaren. They turned an absolute dog of a car around into something regularly on, or very near the podium.
They seem to have a grasp of what was wrong with the car, how to fix it and all the talk of releasing something a lot more competitive has actually been realised.Mercedes have improved, but still don’t seem to understand the car & it’s performance envelope. It is not clear to me that they will get on top of it for next year. I’m hoping they do.
Ferrari have a competitive car, but I almost can’t take them seriously. Yesterday for example….Sainz asking what the strategy is, as he’s a bit lost and the reply is……..erm, we are hoping for a safety car. OK, then.
They also don’t seem to have got on top of the high tyre wear.
I think the Merc was limited by some fundamental decisions made when they went down the zero sidepod route. That limited how much they could change to adopt the Red Bull concept. Next year's car will be a fresh start so it would be a surprise if it wasn't a huge improvement. That doesn't mean they will leapfrog Red Bull, just that the struggle to get this year's car to work tells us very little about next year's car.
The Ferrari was very fast over one lap, it was able to warm up its tyres easily so it did well in qualifying. However, that also made it very hard on tyres so its race pace was often a long way off.
I expect Red Bull will start next year with the best car, but other teams will be closer. It's impossible to predict which team will be their nearest challenger, I suspect it will like this year, with different cars being stronger at different tracks and some shuffling of the order over the season as some teams do better on upgrades than others. If I had to put money on it, I would be on the same order of constructors as this year.
It will be closer , but the red Bull will be such a good car and Max is on a different level to the other drivers cant see them having much trouble , think leclerc would be the only Driver who may get close to Max but they would need a better Car than than the Red Bull
Fantastic Season this year and phenominal achievments from Max hes earned his place to be up there with senna and Shumacher as one of the Greats
What's with the issue over the missing "Spoilers" thing? Are people really that hard of thinking that they wouldn't know not to look here before they've watched a race? I don't get what purpose it serves or why anyone would get upset that there isn't a warning. The thread title doesn't give away a result, only going to the end of the thread will give you anything up to date. It's only your own daft fault if you go looking at F1 content in-between the race and your time shifted viewing of it.
What’s with the issue over the missing “Spoilers” thing? Are people really that hard of thinking that they wouldn’t know not to look here before they’ve watched a race?
It's not a reference to spoilers in the normal way.
It's a reference to wings and aero bits - which back in olden times used to be know as spoilers!
And the F1 thread has always had it, so must have it forever! 🙂
I predict Red Bull will take the Merc zeropod concept, make it work, and win by an even larger margin than the RB19 did. Just to wee on Toto's pumpernickel.
mav12
Fantastic Season this year and phenomenal achievements from Max has earned his place to be up there with Senna and Schumacher as one of the Greats
Long way to go before he reaches that status imho. He's a great driver for sure but no-one of any worth in the field has a car that can even get close and his team mate is definitely playing a supporting role (at best). Yesterday's race was won at the first corner on reputation alone. That reputation is that he's a ****.
the-muffin-man
What’s with the issue over the missing “Spoilers” thing? Are people really that hard of thinking that they wouldn’t know not to look here before they’ve watched a race?
It’s not a reference to spoilers in the normal way.It’s a reference to wings and aero bits – which back in olden times used to be know as spoilers!
And the F1 thread has always had it, so must have it forever! 🙂
Oh I see - it's a joke! I'll get back in me box. ;o)
Long way to go before he reaches that status imho.
The big question mark over Verstappen is that Ricciardo is the only challenging teammate he's ever had. The great champions mostly (maybe all) had highly competitive teammates. Senna and Prost raced each other as teammates. So did Prost and Lauda. Schumacher beat Piquet. Hamilton was teammates with Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. Alonso raced against Hamilton and Raikkonen as teammates. Verstappen did eventually seem to get the best of Ricciardo, but it was a close thing.
the-muffin-man
It’s a reference to wings and aero bits – which back in olden times used to be know as spoilers!
Engage nerd mode! 😵
A wing is used primarily to create down (or up!) force whereas a spoiler interrupts ('spoils') airflow over the car, generally to reduce drag.
Think perhaps I've spent too long on Dull Men's Club recently.
Not wishing to take anything away from Verstappen, who has driven like and absolute champion but just one non-Red Bull win in the season rendered 2023 a colossal snoozefest.
McLaren have promised much in recent races, I'd like to see them racing for wins in 2024 - Norris is way overdue his first win. I also wouldn't be surprised if Renault decided to pull the plug on Alpine and flog it.
The great champions mostly (maybe all) had highly competitive teammates.
I *think* Max is the only World champion never to have had another world champion as a team mate (or shared the same car with another team)
Engage nerd mode! 😵
A wing is used primarily to create down (or up!) force whereas a spoiler interrupts (‘spoils’) airflow over the car, generally to reduce drag.
I think that comment is almost as obligatory as the "contains spoilers" tag. Though usually the comment is in response to someone posting an image of some wings and calling them spoilers.
thepurist
Full Member
I think that comment is almost as obligatory as the “contains spoilers” tag. Though usually the comment is in response to someone posting an image of some wings and calling them spoilers.
Spoil sport 😉
I *think* Max is the only World champion never to have had another world champion as a team mate (or shared the same car with another team)
James Hunt and Alan Jones are the others
Didn’t they have the same car, for different teams though?
I'm hoping that Newey drops a clanger when designing the RB20, and the rest of the field closes in together. Come the end of the season it's a 4 or 5 way battle for the championship.
It'll also be interesting to see how Verstappen reacts to the pressure, this season he led for over a thousand laps, impressive achievement, but bad for the sport.
It’ll also be interesting to see how Verstappen reacts to the pressure, this season he led for over a thousand laps, impressive achievement, but bad for the sport.
Yup – I could barely muster any enthusiasm for the season (although I do always keep up with race weekends on the BBC app) – it has been coming for a while with the lack of live racing now behind a pay wall, but when you read (yet again) about another easy pole for MV, you just know that will translate into yet another easy race win so why even bother following it or watching the race highlights? The only time I got more interested was in the last race and the contest for second-best team (which I am pleased Mercedes won).
Especially when the highlights programme on Chanel 4 is brought to us by RBTV in all but name. DC, RB employee and owner of the company making the programme
Didn’t they have the same car, for different teams though?
Top spot there.
It also depends on your definition of team mate. There are a few more who it was only for a handful of races (eg. Hakkinen - Senna/Mansell) or when one of the drivers were past their best (eg. Schumacher - Piquet/Rosberg)
jimster01
Full MemberI’m hoping that Newey drops a clanger when designing the RB20, and the rest of the field closes in together. Come the end of the season it’s a 4 or 5 way battle for the championship.
It’ll also be interesting to see how Verstappen reacts to the pressure, this season he led for over a thousand laps, impressive achievement, but bad for the sport.
Depressingly, I think they've had such a headstart that the best we can hope for is for one of the other teams to find something big over the winter and close the gap a little bit.
Aston clearly got ****ed over by one or both of the mid-season technical directives, so there's a good chance they can make a big step forward if they can sort that over the winter. Likewise Mercedes having the big chassis upgrade they should have done last winter.
I suspect that Red Bull could turn up with this year's car and still be competitive next year.
Likewise Mercedes having the big chassis upgrade they should have done last winter.
I think at least they made the decision to scrap the W13/14 design that wasn't going anywhere and start fresh. So they've had huge amounts of time on the new chassis. Mind you RB hadn't made any new bits for the RB -19 since the summer break, so they've been working on the new designs since than as well.
'23 was a dull season, I'm not sure it's worth the money that I pay Virgin for it anymore, and now that I'm having to look at what I'm doing for DH/cycling coverage as well now that CGN+ has been pulled, I might not bother with Sky and look at either Now TV and pay race by race or something else entirely.
Now TV is fine if you can watch the race live.
But there is no pause/rewind function and if you miss the race it can take days for it to be made available. For what you pay it's a really poor offering.
Post abudahbi season finale dinner
I predict most the teams switching to a suspension system similar to Red Bull, ie pull rod at the front promoting anti dive and push rod at the rear promoting anti squat.
I'm hoping the other teams will be a bit closer as the regulations are static and also I think the other teams understand that it was the overall holistic approach to design (aero, chassis and suspension) that created the monster that is the RB19.
For ages folks were only looking at the aero aspect of the RB19 and trying to figure out what they were doing differently and then they realised its everything working together, its the whole concept not one particular thing.
I still think Red Bull will be out at the front as they have such a huge head start on everyone but hopefully the gap is a bit closer such that on circuits or conditions that do not favour Red Bull one of the other teams can take the victory. While at the moment RB are so far out in the lead that even on a bad day they win just with a smaller gap to 2nd place.
After 35 years of avidly following F1 I've not watched f1 since the end of season 2021 debacle.
Currently harbouring exactly 0% interest in wasting my time watching the 2024 season. I wonder if I'll ever watch it again to be honest, it just feels like a total con these days.
How do you know if you've not watched it since 2021?
jairaj
Full Member
For ages folks were only looking at the aero aspect of the RB19 and trying to figure out what they were doing differently and then they realised its everything working together, its the whole concept not one particular thing.
Well it's a good overall package of course, but I still think there is some undiscovered magic on the RB19.
For example, it simultaneously warms tyres quickly for qualifying/race outlaps and doesn't cook them during the race stint. It works well on all tyre compounds. It rides the kerbs well (so has soft ARBs) yet doesn't roll under cornering (so has firm ARBs? 🤷♂️). It runs mega-low, yet doesn't wear the plank. In qualifying it often has amongst the highest top speed (so lowest drag) and the highest cornering speed (so highest downforce).
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned much about this car is the reliability, a couple of grumbles about the gearbox but no show stoppers that i can remember.
As much as I don't care for Red Bull the team, this car is an absolute triumph, up there with the W11, MP4/4, F2002 and FW14B.
It is undoubtedly a great car. I spent most of the year waiting for some kind of slight of engineering to be revealed like when Ferrari were up to fuel tricks.
I hope it is just a great car and there are no dirty tricks.
Bruce
I hope it is just a great car and there are no dirty tricks
Other than finding inventive ways to blow the budget cap? Deep, deep pockets they have.
I often wonder how much influence Newey actually has. It must be highly demotivating for all the RB engineers to have all successes put down to him, especially when it comes to design detail.
I often wonder how much influence Newey actually has.
He hired the engineers and set up the work processes, etc. He'll oversea the major decisions. Success is highly motivating and the engineers will all know that they have contributed to that success. I'm sure Newey makes everyone who works for him know that their contributions are essential to the success of the team.
I've gone from watching all BBC coverage to channel 4 to youtube 7 minutes and the BBC review
Its not the same
It's not my favourite sport and my knowledge of is...basic.
I think that Mercedes will deliver a massive step change in car performance, McLaren will continue improving and RB will manage incremental improvements.
As for the other teams - no idea.
If Mercedes do have a much improved car, it will be interesting to see if Hamilton still has what it takes to beat Verstappen.
Williams have signed Logan Sargeant for another year.
[i]Williams have signed Logan Sargeant for another year.[/i]
also
[i]Sargeant was chasing all year. He chased from day one, and simply just didn't get better.[/i]
I wonder just how much money he brings the team?
Got to agree with Bennyboy - not been interested enough to watch since the 2021 cheating / ridiculous debacle. Used to love it, but just briefly check the results since then - rather than watching / supporting like I used to. <br />My hope for 2024 is that:
A - a team, ideally McLaren or Mercedes, actually challenges Red Bull to make it vaguely interesting. I personally feel Hamilton deserves the chance to legitimately go for the 8th title that was robbed from him. I’d also like Norris to do well.
B - RB employ a driver actually capable of challenging Verstappen - the guy couldn’t take it and it would make it interesting to see him froth, moan, make mistakes and struggle rather than just drive round miles ahead of everyone else. <br /><br />C - ideally there would be at least 3-4 competitive teams - not just 1 or maybe 2
If all the above happened it could be a great season. Sadly, I suspect until the rule changes in 2026 it may remain the same for a couple more seasons. At least Max will probably not get to 7 titles because of the 2026 future changes - sincerely hope that does shake up the current status quo.
WorldClassAccident
Sargeant was chasing all year. He chased from day one, and simply just didn’t get better.
I wonder just how much money he brings the team?
A wheelbarrow-full I reckon, his family are loaded. That said although he's under delivered compared to Albon this year, I don't think he's actually too bad. He came 4th in F2 just 1 point behind Lawson in 3rd and he won a couple of races.
Also it looks like from '26 onward we'll be racing in Madrid instead of Barcelona. Joe says it'll be a track along the lines of Canada.
The race will take place on a semi-permanent track around the IFEMA convention centre, close to Barajas Airport.
Another interesting aspect is that it has somehow united all the teams in releasing an identically worded statement denying involvement!
WTF is actually going on with that? There's obviously something more going on behind the scenes than just the official version that Suzie Wolff is suspected of leaking information to Toto. Did the FIA decide they wanted to teach Toto a lesson and now it's blown up in their faces?
That went well for the FIA then
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-drops-investigation-into-toto-and-susie-wolff/10556097/?
Well that de-escalated quickly
