[Closed] dutch city bikes

Hmmm, there goes some tumbleweed rolling by...

I'll go back to persuading her a mountain bike is a better option!

I rode one of the styled bikes in Amsterdam, good job it was flat weight was impressive in the wrong way.

Yeah they weigh a ton and this one only has three speeds. We live in Edinburgh too although down by the coast so flattish.

She loves the riding position though

I have the privilege of riding this beast when I visit my dad in Spain.

Exhibit A :
[img] [/img]

Pros: you can carry a slab of beer and a six pack of coke on it.

Cons:
Heavy.
Awful saddle. Riding for more than half an hour is seriously uncomfortable.
Archaic components. Ok not a proper Dutch bike, this one had low end shimano gripshifters, 3x7
Geometry so bad the front wheel hits your foot if you try to turn too sharply.
You can also get pedal strikes on a flat surface if you lean over too much when cornering.

A modern hybrid mtb with pannier/rack would be a million times better. You can lower the saddle and /or raise the bars using spacers of it matters that much? Might be able to find one with a lady friendly angled top tube too?

dutch style bikes are great - comfy riding position and the hub gears and brakes are good and reliable

I think these look great for £370.

[url= https://www.decathlon.co.uk/elops-920-step-over-classic-bike-grey-id_8353686.html ]Decathlon, again.[/url]
[img] [/img]

19kg though.. Jesus. And it's not cheap either.

the dutch are not bothered by weight - they want a bike that has an annual service at the dealers then just keeps rolling on - hence hub gears and roller brakes

What about this you'd have to buy a rack if you want. and it doesn't look quite as quaint.. But it's a cool 4kg lighter lol!

[url= http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=165534&productId=1230893&storeId=10001 ]http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=165534&productId=1230893&storeId=10001[/url]

[img] [/img]

they want a bike that has an annual service at the dealers

Even with mechanical disks, if you're just pootling round town, an annual service will be plenty.

I'd rather a bike that doesn't weigh as much as a sack of cement powder, lol!

she was wondering about longevity.

Post apocolypse it's going to be cockroaches, scorpions and dutch bikes, nothing else. Apart from Keith Richards, of course

mattyfez - Member
19kg though.. Jesus. And it's not cheap either.

I agree about the weight, a good hybrid with extras would be a 'better' bike.
But the lady wants a retro/Dutch style bike...

And it does come with rack, guards, dynamo lights and a Nexus hub for £370, which isn't bad going.

If I lived somewhere flat, I might be tempted.

Well if its anything like my mrs she'll never go out when it's wet anyway.
Or at night.

So do you really need dyno, full mud guards and front and rear racks?

tjagain - Member
the dutch are not bothered by weight - they want a bike that has an annual service at the dealers then just keeps rolling on

Also just checking we agree what flat is
[img] [/img]

Get her a laura trott mtb 1, £350, and it's about 6.5kg lighter!
And it's got hydraulic brakes and an up to date drive chain.
And air forks.

A modern hybrid mtb with pannier/rack would be a million times better.

Mattyfez, I don't think you can make a sensible assessment of the bike the OP's wife is considering based on your own experience of riding a completely different bike which looks like it is the wrong size and seems to be set up to be ridden by a creature with only a vague resemblence to a human being. I appreciate it's not your bike and you only ride it rarely, but in your shoes I would not be able to rest at least until the saddle was levelled on that bike (it looks like the seatpost has been turned 180 degrees?). In any case, that bike itself looks more like a hybrid MTB than a dutch city bike.

OP, if your wife likes it and finds the riding position comfortable, and it's flat where you live/she only wants to use it for short distances, then it will beat a hybrid/MTB hands down. With the encased chain, hub gears and drum/coaster brakes, it should need virtually no maintenance. It's the sort of bike where you don't have to think about getting kitted up and ready, you just get on it and go whenever you want/need to and whatever you are wearing.

until the saddle was levelled on that bike

I do level it, but something is broken so the saddle slowly tilts.
Anyway, I refer you to Mike smiths post above, the Dutch have to cope with gentle elevations almost a meter high on occasion, so weight isn't such an issue.

I just don't think it's sensible in this country.

An I certainly don't get 'kitted up' , I often ride in jeans, a t-shirt and normal jacket if I'm popping into town in my mtb.

If I'm going for a proper ride I'll switch out the jeans for some mtb shorts, that's about it.

You're not married, are you?

I may as well be. Anyway her indoors managed 20 miles on her second outing on a decent bike.. Albeit at a very steady pace..

I just don't see any sense in buying a 20kg bike, unless it's a ebike. It's just to heavy and if she's not as strong as an Ox, will just put her off and it will be one more thing taking up space in the garage.

[img] [/img]

I do level it, but something is broken so the saddle slowly tilts.

That's even worse. 'Something' is broken? You mean to say you haven't identified the problem. I am deeply disappointed in you. This is Singletrackworld. You are supposed to be a 'proper cyclist'©. You should not be able to rest until you had got to the bottom of the problem; even better if you could post a thread on here about it with photographs. Have a word with yourself, and take your toolkit out with you next time you go out to Spain.

Don't come back until it's fixed.

(© copyright old farts everywhere)

Dutch city bikes need not be that heavy - you are looking at bottom end of the range stuff comnparable to pig iron bikes from halfords that will be 20kg as well. Remeber these are fully mudguarded etc not bare bikes. Try something like this 15 kgs with fully enclosed chain, full mudguards, strong rack etc.

https://www.gazellebikes.co.uk/bikes/ultimate-s8/

That's £1300.00 though, lol!

Or 9 annual full services on a £400 bike.

I just don't think it's sensible in this country.

The success of these says otherwise:

[img] [/img]

Arrrrgh, my eyes!

But seriously how many people would buy that bike? And what do they retail for and how much do they weigh?

And also London is flat, so they would be useless anywhere with hills.

Dutch bikes are bloody brilliant.

Once you start to use a sensible bike for riding about town you wonder why you ever pissed about trying to make a MTB work for the same role.

I'm not really suggesting you ride an enduro bike around town, that would be silly, it's the sheer weight and lack of maneuverability of Dutch style bikes that's an issue.

Decent ones cost about a grand for a reasonable weight, which just seems silly for a casual bike when you can get a hybrid with a lady friendly top tube for far less.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the romantic aesthetic of a lady in a flowing gown on her town bike with some fresh bread in her handlebar basket, but things have moved on.

matty - those bikes are better for their purpose than a hybrid - their purpose being easy comfy transport.

They are not un manoeuvrable, they will have full mudguards, built in dynamo lights, good strong racks etc on them and thus you are not comparing like with like. dress up that hybrid to have the same practicality as a dutch bike and you are going to be weighing as much but still not have the practicality

Be fair now, if we are to have a objective discussion, I didn't say they were 'un maneuverable' as you put it.

I said 'they lack maneuverability' in the context of more modern design.

When you consider the price difference, in the UK, to keep the weight sensible, and the price, you'd be better off with a modern bike, aka a hybrid, and buy racks and baskets as addons if you want.

The OP bike looks awesome.

I have a very similar bike for commuting and it's awesome. I pump up the chain and oil the tyres every month or two.

Buy it.

Matty simply wrong. A dutch trekking bike is hybrid - just one built for longevity and utility. Add the rack ( not a cheapo one but one camplable of carry 50+ kgs), sidestand, full mudguards and dynamo hub lights to a uk hybrid and you have a bike that is not as good for its purpose as a dutch bike but as expensive and heavy. there is a reason these bikes are the most popular all over europe - they are good for what they are intended for

These are modern bikes with modern components - have you ever ridden one?

A rack with 50kg capacity .. Damn i could carry 8 slabs of beer on that bad boy!

I'm sold.

its so your friend can sit on the rack. common practice in the low countries

I have a Batavus Personal (look em up and compare to the Loader

Bought it used. Love it to pieces. Near-zero maintenance, rolls like a beaut. Carries EVERYthing with not a twitch. Wouldn't be without it now. Yes slow. Yes heavy. Yes 3spd Nexus. I replaced chainring (chainset actually) for a smaller one for hilly stuff. Big flat metal grippy pedals are the only other upgrade (essential IMO), as it needs torque carrying big loads and those stock moulded pedals are slippy as.

Heavy and slow is fun when smooth and comfortable. Add perfect balance and near-silent, effortless shifting and braking (these are rollers) and it's easy to fall in love with Dutch-style for general transport/hauling. Well, it was for me. I make excuses to go on short late-night shopping trips just to use it! Then take the long route just to use it some more 🙂

But we'd need a second bike to carry the cask of ale then. And a second rider!

Jeez, Mattyfez, you and your old man must get ****ed when you go over for a stay.

We don't mess about hahha 🙂

Thanks all for the comments. Duchessduvet has just read this thread and was laughing out loud in places so kept her entertained.

I think rusty spanner and slowster summed it up perfectly. She wants a dutch style bike and the comfort and practicality. She won't be doing huge distances either.

She has ridden my bikes and even did Glasgow to Edinburgh charity ride on a kona Kilauea with p2s and slicks which she found OK. I suggested a pinnacle lithium but she just prefers an upright position. At 5'11" finding fit is difficult, the bobbin bike she tried was way too cramped.

Should mention its a used bike hence questions. I think she will go for it then she can pile up with kids, shopping and wear a floaty summer dress with a baguette in hand!

Get that Dutchie bought, love Dutch bikes, me. Had a great few days over in Amsterdam for King's Day a couple of weeks ago, great party when the Dutch all take a day off and go a bit more nuts than usual.

Since we've been going over there there the last few years, most of my mates have bought Dutch or Dutch style bikes. It's just a better way of riding in town or sightseeing. They roll well, you can sit up and chat to your mates riding along with you, when you stop, you just put down the kickstand and click the frame lock on. The full chain case makes the chain last forever(put some slime in the tubes, these wheels aren't meant to be swapped quickly), and UK traffic treats you differently too, more like a human being.

Weight is only a problem if you're racing.

The spec of those bikes means all you really have to do to keep them good is keep them clean, the tyres pumped, and put enough oil on the chain to keep rust away. Drum brakes, hub gears and coasters means virtually no maintenance.

You could easily do a comfortable cruisey century on one if you wanted to.

Has anyone tried the IKEA Sladda bike? That's a bit Dutch long isn't it and a lot cheaper with an IKEA card.

The deed is done, has said she will take it after lots of the positive comments on here.

Malvern rider what pedals and crank do you're commend?

I'm looking forward to trying it myself now!

You could easily do a comfortable cruisey century on one if you wanted to

Yeh, in a week.

matty - I met a chap ( in holland) on one. He had been to Trondheim in Norway on it and was on his way back. He was carrying huge amounts of luggage including a track pump and was averaging 80 miles a day

Should mention its a used bike hence questions

I've had mine abou four or five years now, bought it lightly used. Treated it quite neglectfully tbh, it's had a few coastal winters and damp (read outdoors) storage for months on end. All I've done is oil the brakes and she keeps going smoothly. I removed the chain casing out of necessity with the new chainring so it's looking at a new chain (and replacement of the rusting headset cups). Considering the semi-abuse I'm amazed how well it runs.

The (Nexus) hub generator still works fine so I get light and also charge the phone en route. Am thinking she deserves a nice respray just for being so indefatigable, but the clear-coat is nigh-on bombproof and there really is no need, just a few chips here and there and some rust on mudguard stays guards. Fleet/hire bikes, y'see. Made to last. Big up Batavus.

Cranks? Nexus again. Can't remember teeth off top of head, and a bigger rear sprocket. Works for Malvern, cranks slowly up, glides swiftly down. A dream on the flat. Away from the bike for a week or so give me a shout again if in future I can help with the gear ratios I'll have a look? Roller brakes have 'character' on [s]big[/s] any hills. Plan early - brake earlier still 😉

Pedals? Hefty silver alloy flats with cast studs (not the replaceable shin-ripper type). No idea of brand/model, but old DX style.

What I like most is it's mahoosive and relaxing. And yes, you get more consideration respect from other road users. Funny, probably just on account of sitting so high and confidently piloting such a regal battle-cruiser, I expect?

Even with mechanical disks, if you're just pootling round town, an annual service will be plenty.

Really? I neglect my bikes at times, but the chains tend to get oiled at least once a month once they start going rusty! The Dutch bikes are designed in a way that you should have to worry or concern yourself with very little. You just go out and ride it and it looks after itself. Weight is an issue, but only depending on terrain and how fast you intend to get about.

I have a Kona MinUte which has a much more upright seating position full guards and rack, a very civilised way to commute and haul stuff but it's not a match on a proper Dutch bike. I'm going to replace it with a Dutch bike so I can go to a proper enclosed chain (to keep my clothes clean) and a low maintenance hub gear.

*Edit

Just checked back thru my mail and the order details for crank were (sorry for copy/paste capital punishment!):

SHIMANO NEXUS CHAINSET

FOR USE WITH GEARED HUB / FIXIE

LENGTH OF ARMS: 170MM

33 TOOTH ALLOY SPROCKET

SQUARE BB FITMENT

MODEL: FC-NX40

mattyfez - Member
Yeh, in a week.

Those upright bikes have gears and roll really well. Don't underestimate them.

(I've done a century+ around Wester Ross on a 1930s singlespeed dreadnaught, so younger fitter people shouldn't have any problem.)

The Dutch bikes are designed to be robust, if your Mrs can handle a heavy bike then go for it.

In terms of service they are designed to be as strong as they can be so the servicing of items is not as critical as your MTB.

The internal hubs are not really a home service item although the cables etc that control them are just as easy as any other shifter.

My daughter bought herself [url= http://granvillebikes.com/product/summerside-7v/ ]one of these[/url] in Belgium last summer, and rides it both here in Cardiff, and there. She loves it, and has no issue with weight because she uses it for what it is meant to be used for: pootling around town on paths, getting to her ballet classes, and going down to the shops.

I think it's a fantastic machine, and want to get her mum one as well.

The obvious answer is an elephant bike. £250 for a pashley with hub gears and drum brakes. Always gets admiring comments around town. And they send a bike to Africa for everyone sold here

https://elephantbike.co.uk/

Heavy enough for their own gravitational field, robust enough to never need maintenance. Mine has drum brakes, three speed inside a chainguard, integrated panniers and is generally just a great shopping workhorse. I take particular enjoyment sitting on roadies wheels into Windsor at 20 mph (of course I ride other bikes too 😈 ). Sparta! (Or Gazelle, Batavus...)

Elephant bike is an excellent UK-sourced (ex Pashley postie) bike. Paper bike is another with a little more style.

I use my Elephant Bike for getting to/from work and for getting around town, shopping, etc.

It's absolutely brilliant - I've done almost 3000km since getting it and have done nothing apart from oil the chain and fix a puncture (a drawing pin made it through the rear tyre, but all the glass I've ridden over hasn't); I only washed it for the first time the other week.

It's great, but it's not quite as nice as my mate's Gazelle ( https://twitter.com/MatthewSnedker/status/863047844298620928). I think I'll upgrade eventually. In the meantime, this summer I'm making my Elephant Bike more Dutch by adding a chainguard and, maybe, some [url= https://www.reelight.com/en/ ]Reelights[/url] as a poor-man's dynamo hub.

----

buy it!

I'm in Edinburgh and ride a similar although elderly Batavus 3spd dutch bike everywhere. Work, shops, the park, the pub, the dentist, with child seat, trailer, panniers, whatever. It lives outside, and only ever requires an occasional bit of air in the tyres.

Mudguards, chaincase, hub brakes, centre stand, racks and basket. Weighs a tonne or thereabouts, but it doesn't matter. It just glides along.

It's ACE. Honestly. I used to ride mountain bikes with slicks or road bikes around town, and the dutch bike is better in every respect apart from outright speed, because that is what it is designed for. My extremely civilised commute now takes about 20 mins, compared to 17 or so on a 'faster' bike.

get it bought!

I may upgrade to a slightly more modern gazelle at some point, as my friend sells them in his bike shop.

*mine is 'unisex' too, for full effect

She loves the riding position though

*s*****

I love dutch bikes, I still get a kick out of seeing so many bikes whizzing around when im in the Netherlands.

It's the sort of bike where you don't have to think about getting kitted up and ready, you just get on it and go whenever you want/need to and whatever you are wearing.

So, every bike ever then?!

I spent a fantastic six months seconded to a branch of my work out at Cults, Aberdeenshire many years ago which meant I had a 10 mile commute. The only bike available to me was my mum's 1940s BSA Ladys' Shopper - a step-through behemoth with three speeds. As mentioned, the incredibly high riding position was fantastic and on the flat, it went like stink once you got the momentum going.

Those Elephant bikes are ace.

FWIW, MrsIHN has a Dawes Duchess sit-up-beg Dutch style bike for riding the mile and a bit through town to work. It's the shizzle. As someone up there /\ said, once you ride that style of bike through a town, you realise that it's exactly the tool for the job.

what about a mixte road bike?
not sure of your budget but crème cycle so a couple of nice retro looking mixte and dutch style bikes.

But seriously how many people would buy that bike?

If we had Dutch infrastructure, everyone would have one

You've gotta remove your 'cyclist' head with all the knowledge it contains and wear a 'cheap transport' head instead.
Dutch bikes make sooooooo much sense it's untrue. How many cyclists do we all know who ride a nice bike, go on the organised ride, wear the right gear and belong to a club...... Then as soon as they need to do the shopping they get in a goddam car?!!?!!
Bikes like this are built for short journeys and carrying a load. EVERYONE needs one, if only they'd take the blinkers off 🙂

Three words:
Royal Dutch Gazelle
They make some awesome bikes, better quality than anything I've ever seen this side of a hand brazed custom bike. And they're stupendous value. £600 gets hub gears, drum brakes, integral Dynamo lighting, integral lock, bell and side stand, a rack and a tool free adjustable stem to change the position of the bars. They build their own wheels and as the bikes are designed to be left outside, everything on it is stainless steel, galvanised, or covered in 4 layers of paint. I can't over exaggerate how well these Gazelles are made. They make Trek, Giant, Spesh et al look cheap and nasty.

That's a good point. They're a form of transport, not a form of exercise or sport. Everyone has one and they get used for daily activities that you would use a car for

But I wouldn't want to be doing hilly stuff on them

And it took me ages to get used to coaster brakes! Rolling up to lights and then back pedalling so I could pull away for a right leg first start wasn't possible, had to learn to roll up to lights in the right position

Mine

[img] ?oh=90cb65eafaac48c4021efa2f7a76d611&oe=59B608CB[/img]

Sparta girls bike with longer seatpost. Brought back from Utrecht.

it took me ages to get used to coaster brakes!

I borrowed a German Strike Bike for a month and it took a while to get used to the coaster brake, but I loved it once I did. The next time I rode my MTB I almost fell off at the first corner when I tried to brake by back pedaling.

I have access to [url= http://darlovelo.org/our-bikes/our-model-range/ ]a warehouse full of Dutch bikes[/url] 🙂

And what's more, you can't do this so easily on a hybrid:

[img] [/img]

So, every bike ever then?!

Well, nearly but no.

I don't wear tight jeans and never wear posh clothes outside of funerals and weddings, but my step-thru Dutch has full guards and onboard lock/s, panniers, and 'always-on' dynamo lighting/phone charging. It's the epitome of all-weather 'grab nothing, wear anything, stepthru and ride, stop and kick-stand, turn key in wheel-lock and go' bikes

Can't do any of that on my road bike or ATB, have to find lock, stow lock, charge and fit lights, attach panniers, etc. And I still worry about leaving them locked. Not so with the Batavus. I lost the key to the rear (wheel) lock and had to buy a new lock. It took an angle-grinder to remove the old one. Lucky it was at home - could have been a scene in the street, or else a(nother) hernia carrying the swine home.

But I wouldn't want to be doing hilly stuff on them

Agreed. But a new Nexus chainset with a few more gnashers cost me £15. Now hills.

And it took me ages to get used to coaster brakes

Don't favour them either. Not at all. But not all Dutch bikes are equal in that. Mine came with front and rear Shimano roller-brakes and they do fine once you adjust to the 'gentle stop'

Forgot to say (again) -

Shhhhh, but (utilitarian and slightly ill-kempt) Dutch bikes are also seemingly invisible to tea-leafing scrotes. May be worth two or three times more than a Carrera MTB or road bike, but it sits there under a cloak of fugly fog, a fog which prevents a scrote from registering it at all.

I bloody love my Dutch stealth-battle-cruiser. It's the one bike that's a true keeper. Am still surprised at this as I bought it cheaply and with a raised eyebrow and low expectations. They really do know how to put a town/cargo-bike together. To steal a phrase - it just works. Except it really does.

I spent a bit of time looking at Dutch bikes in order to get all my crap to and from work. This place is seems to turn up on my Facebook feed...

benp1 - Member
...But I wouldn't want to be doing hilly stuff on them..

Why not? Simply a matter of gearing.

They handle climbs perfectly well as well as a bit of gravel (they should, that was what roads were when they were invented).

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8538/8610684106_283c6c3325_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8538/8610684106_283c6c3325_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

thanks malvern rider for the info.

seems to be a lot of love for these which is good to hear. She is quite excited at the prospect of getting it now.

I think if we had heard of the elephant bikes project earlier we may have got one as we both like to support such projects.

I've 'volunteered' to ride it back home, should be fun

I've 'volunteered' to ride it back home, should be fun

Could be! How many sizes small is it? 😉

+100 Peter Poddy's epic post. Truth!

not sure if it's been suggested, i read through some of the post but not all. anyway the best dutch style bike around is the Paper Bicycle

http://www.paper-bicycle.com/hustle/

anyway the best dutch style bike around is the Paper Bicycle

Seems expensive for a singlespeed high ten with no AXA locks and almost everything else (hub generator, gears, rack, lights etc) extra on top? Speccing it the same as a Batavus Personal (this is hi ten with 26ers and all the gubbins) puts it over £100 more and that's still lacking integrated locks.

Any reason why it's a better option than a 'real' actual Dutch one, ie a modern aluminium Gazelle?
A C7 comes in at 570 with everything
Genuine interest as looking at a small fleet of town bikes for friend's project

aye well it may be a bit small! Im 6'4" but when i lived in Germany spent my time on a bike that was way too small but at the end of the day it was a bike and I had tons of fun hooning around.

I've done a century+ around Wester Ross on a 1930s singlespeed dreadnaught

Who wouldn't love a bike named 'Dreadnaught'!

Malvern Rider - Member
'I've done a century+ around Wester Ross on a 1930s singlespeed dreadnaught'
Who wouldn't love a bike named 'Dreadnaught'!

However there was a small manufacturer around the late 1890s and early 1900s who branded his bikes Dreadnaught with a fine badge of a pre WW1 battleship. I have some of the original transfers and am tempted to create an authentic looking replica. I don't know if it was the same mob, but there is also a Birmingham version. My guess is they were shop (lbs) built hearth brazed frames that got the brand transfers applied, a bit like generic Chinese frames get in the UK.

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4191/34566751761_9bf428e376.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4191/34566751761_9bf428e376.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I haven't been able to find out much about them as a brand, so if anyone knows anything definite about Dreadnaughts, I'm all ears.

BTW There was a police report of a stolen one in 1899, so if you folks with Victorian houses check down the back of the shed, who knows - it could be returned to its grateful owner. 🙂

Nothing to contribute - but loving this thread. Elephant bikes look great.

I definitely need an errand bike, cause I'm sure I'll find a bunch of errands that need doing very soon.

Shameless erranding:

Buying Mrs some flowers: (much beer cunningly concealed in pannier 😉 )

[IMG] [/IMG]

Nearly out of coffee? Not really but just in case..:

[IMG] [/IMG]

Need me to deliver a flannel shirt to you in Tintagel, via the coastal path? Oh go on then...(you din't see me, roight?)

[IMG] [/IMG]

Any excuse 🙂

But I wouldn't want to be doing hilly stuff on them

If I was somewhere hilly I'd get an electric one. 16mph up any hill. 🙂

Malvern Rider (and PeterPoddy and anyone else with experience of the step through frame), I would be interested to know what you think of the step through frames - usually marketed as the ladies' version - as opposed to those with a cross bar/top tube.

I suspect that they are so overbuilt that the traditional arguments against ladies' and mixte touring frames, e.g. too flexy, don't apply to these bikes.

If you were buying one (again), would you get the step though version or one with a top tube?