Divorcing a problem drinker

If the drinking were to stop, would you still want to be in the relationship? IMO this would be the decider for whether to proceed with a divorce.
It sounds like your wife needs help and support to combat an addiction. It may make it easier if you are able to stop drinking too.
I have zero experience in this so apologies if I'm oversimplifying things, but I would perhaps take it as a positive that she has acknowledged she needs to stop. If she can admit to herself that it is an issue then perhaps she can begin to recover?

Anyone have any meaningful advice they can impart

Good luck....

Get your own shit watertight and look after your kids.

I would also say that realistically you need to go teetotal too (at least initially) to have a cat in hells chance of it actually working out for her too.

what riklegge said.

DJ, I feel for you. I have been in the same position myself and really had to get out of it. I started proceedings once, was persuaded to stop them after a period where my ex stopped drinking for six months, then restarted them when she restarted and would not stop. I ended up having to hide my wine collection at work because she was taking it and just drinking it like pop. The divorce was unreasonable behaviour FWIW.

Anyway, I understand your situation.

IANAL, but if she is still drinking, then there's a decent chance you could apply for 100% custody. If she's getting drunk, passing out, etc then she is not fit to look after children. Going cold turkey will not help. I'm biased, but as soon as something else bad happens to her, she'll start again. Continuous support by professionals might help her stay off alcohol, but that is on her and you have to be aware that alcoholics will lie to anyone and everyone about their illness.

I know it will be hard, but I do think that your kids would be much better off away from her if she is in that state. I also think that, for your sake, you will be better off away from her. And yes, I say that without ever meeting her and based purely on my own PTSD over my ex.

not my personal experience, but knowing someone in a similar situation.. he got an urgent "live with me order" based on teh wife's drinking issue.
The kids were with him from the word go, and the fact the drinking if REALLY problematic (i.e drunk in charge of kids, falling etc) I think you can be confident that a 50:50 split is unlikely.

However, be prepared to be in a situation where the kids are MEANT to be with mum, but you have to keep them as she's drunk/not there etc

DrP

No mention of her welfare if she ends up living alone?

Not that im saying you should have at all, but i would factor it into your equation how you or your kids might feel if she ended up living on her own and the combination of alcoholism and "being left alone" resulted in her coming to a sad end?

similar thing happened to the mum of one of my friends at school, but ive got no experience or anything helpful of my own. so ill just say best of luck to you all.

So sorry. Nothing to offer other than my best wishes, but you’ll get some quality advice I expect.

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week. In the latest confrontation we unearthed over 35 bottles of wine and sprits from various kitchen and utility room cupboards.

I read this thinking the worst, then you confirmed it with this unfortunately

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week. In the latest confrontation we unearthed over 35 bottles of wine and sprits from various kitchen and utility room cupboards.

Alcoholics are incredible liars.

I highly doubt going cold turkey will help, sooner or later you'll just find more bottles stashed away somewhere. Will she visit a doctor, or any sort of support group? As Riklegge asks, would you want to still be with her if she sorts it out anyway?

As others have said, based on the circumstances 50:50 access is unlikely. Be prepared for a long, rocky road though. Good luck

No mention of her welfare if she ends up living alone?

Olly, I spent six damn months thinking about that when I was putting up with the drunken arguments, the abuse and the other shit. At what point does it become other peoples's problem because I can't cope? Shit, I reported her to the police three times for drink driving and felt like a ****ing criminal for doing it, but knowing, KNOWING I was doing the right thing because she could kill someone whilst she was out in her car.

So yes, there's an argument that says you should look out for them, but I tried, I tried everything to help her and I failed. She did not want my help and kept drinking. I divorced her, she got paid and her behaviour became her problem, not mine. I was told that an alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before they can choose to stop. At what point does them reaching rock bottom end up being a greater harm to other people?

Sorry, venting. It's been four/five years and this is still very, very raw.

Sounds like a terrible situation, my sympathies.

In terms of actions, I wasn't sure initially, but then this jumps out at me as the most important bit of your post:

One of the kids has come up to me now following the holiday and asked me to divorce her so they can live with me

If it's true then I say unequivocally that is the action you must take. Divorce her and apply for 100% custody.

If at the end of that process you have any energy left then you could try to address this:

her welfare if she ends up living alone?

But I wouldn't be giving it much priority at present.

Your circumstances may be different but for a more positive outcome. An alcoholic family member was told told to leave his family (wife and 2 kids) and not to come back till he was clean. This was the wake up call he needed and he has now been cold turkey for over 2 years (he still attends AA) and they are a very happy family.

Does she want to give up to keep you / the kids or because she wants to give up?
She will need to replace the addiction withe something else, make it positive.
As above do you still want to be with a so er version of her?

Sounds tough man, look after yourself. Cut back on your own drinking to give yourself clarity, calm and health.

Also what about her parents / siblings? What's their opinion? You need their support as if she starts getting them to support her it will help her self dinial

Cut back on your own drinking to give yourself clarity, calm and health.

Probably good advise too - could imagine the kids would be properly nervous when they see you drinking too (even if you know it's very different)

Ouch.

My take, bit harsh perhaps

Priorites at this point -

Kids
You
A distant third, her

The very best of luck with the situation. Addictions of any nature are horrible news. Alcohol especially so - it's (a) everywhere and (b) very, very, toxic, in so many ways.

She has agreed to stop and go cold turkey but cannot take ownership of any of the previous incidents her drinking have caused

If she's not owning the past problems, that won't stick, rock bottom hasn't happened, and I wouldn't personally buy a word of that going sober promise without the ownership thing. Addicts will lie to the end. About anything and everything, to themselves, and you. She might even mean that 100% in this moment right now... but be straight back at it as soon as you're not looking.

Be prepared for 100% custody / minimal to no contact.

Stay strong.

Man, thanks for all the quick replies - particularly thanks to willard for your contribution.

Couple of points, I have binned the booze for now. Kids are 13

Wife has no family support network, but despite the alcohol intake has not impacted her career and I feel certain that she would continue as a functioning alcoholic until it got the better of her health

I can relate to this story - however, in it I am one of the kids. My father was a drunk. He worked off-shore, so would be gone for 2-3 months at a time, then would come home and hit the drink hard. Sadly there was domestic violence involved, at it got to the point I once drew a knife on him to protect my mum.

Being a kid in the middle of alcohol abuse is awful. You're always on edge wondering when it will next kick off. Or what that person is going to do. I used to lay awake at night just waiting for him to go to sleep so I knew we were all safe.

Somehow, though, he turned things around once he finally stopped working off-shore. Got into a normal routine (rather than turning up to the pub at opening time), and is now one of the nicest guys you'll meet.

EDIT: I have to agree with others, get the kids out of the situation - it has a much longer term effect than you'll realise.

Kids being 13 means they are old enough to understand why you're doing what you're doing I think.

If she's currently still working and drinking, well, that unfortunately doesn't bode well for a change of behaviour if her work will continue to support the lifestyle and addiction, with or without you.

Being a kid in the middle of alcohol abuse is awful. You’re always on edge wondering when it will next kick off. Or what that person is going to do.

As is being the partner.

Feel for everyone involved.

I know someone who was in a similar position and tried many times before it ended up with divorce.

As stated above though, if alcohol wasn't involved would you still want to be with your other half. What was the reason for you both ending up drinking excessively in the evenings?

If she truly wants to stop, if drinking that much I cant imagine cold turkey is the solution, it will need lots of support all round and support to come off alcohol.

Try and cut down on your own drinking too

Mate had a similar issue. Was 2yrs of hell but he's so much happier now.

Keep a diary
Speak to a family solicitor
Speak to your GP and raise it there.

If it’s true then I say unequivocally that is the action you must take. Divorce her and apply for 100% custody.

This is my sense, and thanks, some of you seem to think that would be possible. I have some evidence to support this outcome that the kids have written and videos I've made, but was really hoping that using them to lawyer up would be a last resort.

She has agreed to stop and go cold turkey

Just on this single point you should get some medical advice. Going cold turkey as an alcoholic can have very dangerous consequences and can even kill. Obviously it depends on the scale of the physical dependence which is why you need advice. Alcohol is the pretty much the only drug you can be addicted to which can kill you if you stop taking it.

https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-timeline

@djglover No problem. I can't offer anything more than just a person to vent to if you need it.

I had help during my divorce from a counsellor that was, weirdly, an alcoholic. Her difference was that she had reached rock bottom and had made a decision to never drink again. I wasn't even seeing her because of my ex's drinking either.

Protect yourself and your kids and really, really remember that you need to look after yourself too.

As others have said, your kids have to be the number one priority, and if you feel they are not in a safe environment, physically or mentally, you have to take action.

How do they feel about her current attempt, genuine or otherwise, to stay dry? Have there been previous failed attempts?

The acid test for me is whether she is willing to engage with external support to quit on this occasion, rather than just trying (and probably failing) to go cold turkey.

You have my sympathy OP.

There is some good advice above and some not so good. It sounds a very complex and difficult situation you are in and without knowing more I'll refrain from commenting on the relationship between you and your family members.

What I will suggest is you need to look after yourself, maybe you could visit A.A and talk to them about your wife and her illness. A.A have people that know how alcoholics effect family life and what you can do to help deal with living with an alcoholic and the associated fallout. Good luck and please keep us updated with how you get on.

You'll also know if she's really going cold turkey anyway (from drinkaware.co.uk and my own experience)

"Physical symptoms of alcohol withdrawal

hand tremors (‘the shakes’)
sweating
nausea
visual hallucinations (seeing things that are not actually real)
seizures (fits) in the most serious cases "

Its the first one I really remember seeing!

How do they feel about her current attempt, genuine or otherwise, to stay dry? Have there been previous failed attempts?

After the NYE incident, which was very damaging, she promised to never get drunk again. Obviously this was not kept, the kid(twins btw) asking me to press for divorce is not in the space to grant a second chance and very eloquently confronted her mother last night about this saying she didnt deserve a second chance, she had had 1000 chances since NYE 2018/19 and not taken one of them. I was hoping this would hit home, but the best apology she could come up with followed with was "you really should have been in bed"

So no remorse really, or any real trust that this attempt will be successful. As others have said, and I am clear this is an intervention, and she has not hit rock bottom so has limited chance of success

“you really should have been in bed”

That doesn't mean she wasn't listening, it could just be that means that the truth really hurt and she doesnt want to acknowledge it yet, which is slightly different from being at rock bottom.

Have you talked to her about what the kids said without the kids there? Have you talked to her about AA and both of you speaking to the GP?

Again to me it comes back to the question do you still want to be with her, and what caused you both to start drinking excessively? If you dont get that resolved, even if she stops drinking the original issue will still rumble on

My sympathies OP.
My sister had a similar situation with my BIL. Passed out, missing for days, lots of accidents.. Total failure to accept a problem despite a number of interventions. They are now divorced, my sister is happier than she has been for over 10 years. The kids understand the youngest was 8 when things broke down it was bad for a while before that though. I spoke to Alcoholics anon. at a few times during this whole episode. Even as a family member they were very helpful and gave good advice. I would recommend talking to any of the charity organisations as they can help you to understand and help the kids to understand. Throughout we have tried to help the BIL but we now have no contact, total failure to get help or acknowledge any problem despite numerous serious health issues including chronic pancreatitis and a dependancy on painkillers. We are there if he changes his behaviour, but not until he does.

I was told that an alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before they can choose to stop

2good friends of ours hit rock bottom, one was a close friend of ours on the surface had everything going for her, well off ex Vogue cover model was functioning alcoholic for years, drove both her lads away when they were old, enough nearly died a few times from drunken injuries. Fell a lot further before seeking AA help. Moved away broke contact with everyone from her past and we've never seen her since.
Another ran her a successful business and was functioning for years, husband died and she fell even further until she nearly drank herself to death before seeking AA. Again she moved and started over and is how we now know her.
Good luck. Seeing how our friend behaved/acted/lied I'd divorce - I'd do the same if it was MrsRNP

My dad was an alcoholic, just borderline functional really - hiding countless empty spirit bottles around the house etc., threatening his wife and daughter (my mum is long gone), hit me a few times when I was much younger etc. He's been drinking heavily for probably 20 years at least.

I'd never have believed it but last year he quit. It took prostate cancer to do it, but he's a much healthier and easier person to be around now (despite the ongoing radiotherapy).

Not sure if that's helpful or not but I honestly would never have ever believed he could quit drinking, and - touch wood - he has.

Nothing to add to the above other than my very best wishes. The Kids must come first.

Be aware though that some addicts never hit rock bottom. It kills them before they get there. I watched my brother piss everything including his family up the wall before finally drinking himself to death. Horrible and I really feel for you.

Terrible situation. My mum was an alcoholic most of her life and had a terrible impact on the family, but ultimately her.

My dad spent many years trying to make her realise she had a problem, but ultimately everyones efforts failed and ended in divorce as she became very violent and abusive, but the root cause here is the alcoholism, which in itself is often a symptom of some deeper rooted issue and can be a cry for help. Not sure what measures you've attempted to get her to seek professional assistance. Asking an alcoholic to give it up is never going to work no matter how squeaky clean you are. You need professional help.

Not suggesting you are, but 'abandoning', or giving up on them is not a route out either. She is the kids mother after all so even if for that purpose it is worthwhile trying to help her address her issues. Divorce may not ultimately be avoidable, but ultimately divorce or no divorce she is someone who needs help and she isn't going to/is not able to help herself. Someone has to take charge, but by the same token you can only do so much.

Sorry, its a really really crappy situation and you can't do it by yourself, you're going to need the help and support of the wider family and whatever professional help or support groups there are out there. After about 15 years my dad ultimately divorced my mum and my mum never recovered from her alcoholism and by the end she was estranged from all her family including me and my brother and ultimately never got over her alcoholism. Always something that niggles me to this day - you always think you could have/should have done more, but the whole family (we were a close family once) so about 15 people, tried for 15 years and more to get her to deal with the alcoholism but failed. Thankfully these days there is alot more understanding and proffessional help around and in my mums case I suspect there were also mental health issues complicating everything - again something that is so much better understood these days with better support structures available. If the help available to people now was available back then, then I can only theorise that we might have had a different outcome for my mum and everyones lives would have been richer for it. But we'll never know.

Good luck.

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week.

It sounds like she is drinking more than that to me. That's less than 2 bottles of wine. It's a lot but strikes me as more alcohol dependence than alcoholic. Although I except that some people don't see a difference.

The hidden bottles of spirits would be the really worrying thing to me, suggests she is having a lot more than a 100 units per week. A cold turkey withdrawal may be pretty scary.

FWIW there a is a bloke who lives opposite me, who considers himself almost tea total, as he now "only" drinks 8 cans of Special Brew per night. He has done some bits and pieces of work at our place and I have had a few chats with him about his past. His rock bottom was living in squats and sleeping rough, injecting vodka. Several occasions he has woke up and one of his co-drinkers were dead.

Is separation an option? Could she afford to get a flat and live on her own? Might be the incentive she needs to change.

As for your drinking - I think if you got your wife of the drink you'd have to also accept never drinking again.

My friend is alcoholic. Knocks backs half a bottle of spirits a day plus a bottle or two of wine at least. We've all tried helping but he says he's happy in what he does despite being in terrible health. He's retired and there are no young kids involved thankfully, but our group of friend are expecting the phone call with bad news.

Hi basic problem is he is in a loveless marriage - his wife despises him and essentially used him to have kids. They've slept in separate bedrooms for donkeys years. He won't divorce her as he still loves her, she won't leave him as life is very comfortable spending his pension money and divorce will leave her out of pocket.

Good luck whatever the outcome!

You've got my sympathy about getting to the point where you have to make such hard decisions. I divorced my first wife 20 years ago and its interesting to talk to my grown up kids about it. No violence or other issues, just incompatibility. They hated the conflict and never wanted to make a choice between parents even when they see one who is obviously unreasonable so the fact that your kids have asked about divorce speaks volumes.

Concerning parental responsibility I can give you very specific advice. It's my wife profession. You won't get anything other than joint custody. It's the default position and only a court order will change that. A court order will only be granted if there is independent evidence of actual harm to support the claim of risk. To that end you need to start reporting concerns and ask for help. Tell the school, the doctor and anyone else about the issue. She might not have much family or a support network report but get it into the open. Report incidents and ask for help from your local Children's Social services. You won't meet their threshold for intervention but the issue will be logged. As Willard said - report her for drink driving. If she arrives drunk to collect the kids don't let the go and report it to the police if she gets out of hand. You have to create the evidence. This is all confrontational and very stressful but without evidence you have absolutely no chance of sole parental responsibility. Sorry but that's the way it is.

As the kids get older they will develop their own ways of avoiding the drunken parent and make choices that will keep themselves safe. They will only want to go for very short periods of time and to public spaces (MacDonalds, school performances/games etc)

Whatever happens it's going to be hard and my heart goes out to you.

A good friend lived with an alcoholic for years. It broke her.
You can not save everyone.
Take care of your kids.
Good luck.

I've been through this first hand. You should engage the school so they are aware of the situation and will pick up on any behaviors your kids are displaying that you might not be picking up on, they will have dealt with this before. Plus the authorities then become your allies should you need to progress things as they see you as the stable positive parent should it come to that.

The kids welfare is priority, everything else comes after that.

Horrible situation to be in

Two big questions - do you want to save the marriage? Is your wife ready to stop drinking?

If you have the money and she is ready then residential dextox could be an option. You of course have to stop drinking as well. If this is the road you want and are ready to go down then do it wholeheartedly and put your heart and soul into it. Addiction is a cruel disease. Be prepared to accept your culpability in all this as well.

however if she is not ready then its all a waste of time and effort and your option may be just to protect the kids - you may have to make a harsh choice to let your wife sink so you can protect the kids

You need some professional help now - Al - anon IIRC is the group for spouses of alcoholics

Don't make any rash decisions, leave a way back but its time for decisive action. the best outcome is she stops drinking and you go back to a happy marriage but you cannot continue as you are.

TJ's advice is what I would recommend.

Two big questions – do you want to save the marriage? Is your wife ready to stop drinking?

I dont think she is fully ready to embrace being sober. She is saying things like I don't drink now, definitely avoiding any future commitment or past ownership.

I am definitely ready to divorce her but my biggest fear is that a 50:50 split leaves the kids in a worse position.

It won't be a 50:50 split. You will be expected to reach an agreement about when the kids see each parent. By the sounds of it you divorce her and she has to leave the marital home. There may be maintenance issues to sort but they will be worth it. If you remain in the current situation unfortunately things will remain the same or get worse. The kids will become even more damaged and resentful.
I imagine that the kids will remain in their home with you. Then you both will be agree access. Although it could be 50:50 the reality is that because of your wife's situation she won't cope with anything like that. The kids will also withdraw from the arrangement of their own volition if they feel unsafe.

Slight flaw in that plan is that I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

Somehow, though, he turned things around once he finally stopped working off-shore. Got into a normal routine (rather than turning up to the pub at opening time), and is now one of the nicest guys you’ll meet.

Just wanted to say how luch I liked this. Bit of good news in amongst the rest.

Excuse me if I've missed it in a post somewhere but it doesn't seem anyone has asked why she drinks so much. There is generally some underlying issue.

I am definitely ready to divorce her

Do you want to? Or do you want to save the marriage?

You can only do it if she wholeheartedly decides to stop and you wholeheartedly support her.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

Lots of good advice here, the only thing I would add (as others have), is that you need to stop drinking, full stop, for many reasons:

- the children must associate it with bad things (hers, admittedly, but still)
- you need as clear a head as possible, never mind to be as healthy as possible, in order to best manage what's to come
- if you've quit, and she's not, that can only go in your favour in any custody discussions

Does she admit there's a problem? Is she willing to seek professional help to correct it? Is she willing to change her life (not just stop drinking, but weekly meetings, healthy living, etc) for the family?

If the answer to any of those is no - there's no future.

I'm the son of an alcoholic who never admitted that there was was a problem. I tried everything to help, encourage, chastise, bribe him to get better. He never did as he was never willing to admit there was a problem. I spent almost 20 years trying to make a difference. The lesson here is that YOU cannot make a difference - you can help, but THEY need to acknowledge the problem and change. If you can get the former from her, you can help with the latter.

As for the kids - if she wont/cant change - they need to be away from her. Kids of alcoholics often end up becoming what they hate. I consider this every time I have a drink. I've been drunk twice in my life.

I'll also add that, if this was the other way around, and you were the problem drinker, most people would not blink if she changed the locks while you were out, and told you not to come back until you were clean. There's no reason, really ,why you could not do the same.

I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

The judge will say what happens to the house and, as with everything else, the welfare of the children is the top priority. It's not uncommon for the judge says that the best thing for the children is that they live in the house, with you, until they, say, go to uni. At that point the house can be sold and the equity split (and split as per the judgement, she won't necessarily get half).

@willard. Sorry youve had it hard mate, but youve missed my point.

The OP and his kids seperate from her, she ends up living alone further down the rabbit hole and quite likely drinks herself to death.

In which case, thats something that the OP and his kids have to address/face/deal with.
Even if you know full well it wasnt your fault, i cant imagine it not haunting you forever.

I feel it would be better to somehow get her some help at the same time, even if it is ultimatly to protect the kids from having to deal with their mothers (Avoidable? i dont know) death, but i dont have any experience of it myself so wouldnt know what to suggest.

Slight flaw in that plan is that I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

can she get residential help? like getting someone sectioned?

Just on this single point you should get some medical advice. Going cold turkey as an alcoholic can have very dangerous consequences and can even kill. Obviously it depends on the scale of the physical dependence which is why you need advice. Alcohol is the pretty much the only drug you can be addicted to which can kill you if you stop taking it.

https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-timeline/blockquote >

This post seems to have been somewhat ignored but is arguably the most important thing to understand. Particularly when looked at alongside this.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

Remember that alcohol dependency / alcoholism is an illness and needs to be treated by professionals who understand what they are doing. The op would almost certainly be classified as having alcohol dependence as well

 

@Olly yes and that must all balanced against the future abuse that will inevitably occur if the drinking does not stop.

Kids come first.
Abused spouse second.
Help as much as you can within that restriction... That help is not mandated to include 'putting up with the abuse and the drinker continuing to live in the same house.'

Whoever said the underlying issue needs fixing first is right, unless that's being addressed there will not be any long term improvement, not really.

Remember that alcohol dependency / alcoholism is an illness and needs to be treated by professionals who understand what they are doing. The op would almost certainly be classified as having alcohol dependence as well

Which comes back to the point that OP hasn't answered so far (not that he needs to say on a public forum) but what is driving her alcoholism and his high drinking

Not sure what is driving her drinking, have been some wider mental health problems with one of my kids, but her heavy drinking pre-dates that. Mine generally corresponds with less commuting time, more drinking time I guess. I rarely get drunk, but like a couple of pints for sure and was probably drinking 20-30 units per week pre-lockdown.

Ex was a barely functioning alcoholic. It's was horrible looking back but weirdly normal at the time but then I was heading down the same road (3-4 bottles of wine per night, every night) then I stopped as I wasn't functioning well at all.
She didn't, I came home one night to find all/every the glass in the house smashed because she forgot I had a parents evening.

If she doesn't want to change nothing you do will persuade her.
You need to look after you to look after the kids and horrible the behaviour of an alcoholic destroys everything it touches on.

I become hyper vigilant around drunk women and it's all because of her.

Instead of empty promises from her can you hold her to seeking help? If she doesn't then you know the answer. If she does then you'll both need to wipe the slate clean between you.

re. 50/50 split. depends on many things but they'll prioritise having a roof over the childrens head.

I have some experience of this, as the child of an alcoholic, and agree with most of what has been said. Except this but about finding out what drives the drinking, I can answer that: ALCOHOLISM.

There may be circumstances but these are excuses and rationalisations. Lots of people deal with lots of problems without drinking. Don't get sucked into the pity!

Best of luck, and make sure the kids know they are loved and safe, you seem to have that under control so well done you, stick in.

So yes, there’s an argument that says you should look out for them, but I tried, I tried everything to help her and I failed.

She's relying on you to enable her drinking. Put her out the door after getting your legal ducks in a row. Giving up for you or the kids is not sustainable she has to want it for her. Tell her you will be there when she gives up (if that's what you want). I suspect that she may only be a few months from dying if my experience of my god-children's mother is typical.

Good luck and do what's best for the children and you.

djglove, I feel for you dude. I don't have a lot to add apart from whats already been said. I grew up with an alcoholic father until the age of 12 until my mum finally did the right thing and it was the best thing she ever did our house was so much happier.

If you choose to get your wife help I would really read up on whats going to happen to her by 7-8 I had witnessed my father try and get clean multiple times and its an awful experience for everyone involved. Multiple hospital trips, hallucinations, lack of stable home life its just generally rubbish.

I would say though kids are extremely tough and im sure having you around as a good dad will go an extremely long way i would like to think despite my childhood im a pretty well adjusted person. I just don't ever drink.

Suggest you contact Al-Anon UK as TJ suggested above - https://www.al-anonuk.org.uk/about-us/ - which will give you some support and advice to help you through this difficult situation from people who deal with similar situations every day.

You mention in your last post that one of your kids has some mental health issues which have occured since your wife's alcoholism has become a problem - are your child's issues related to their Mum's drinking and subsequent behaviour? If so that would be a massive red flag to me.

Will your wife take a first step and talk to a GP or attend an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting or similar? If not, she is not going to acknowledge her problem until some major medical issue happens to her, if at all.

Good luck and best wishes in trying to resolve this horrible situation!

If the kids are 13 it's possible their say will count for quite a lot when it comes to residence and contact arrangements.

Time to fish out all the financial documents - savings, pensions, payslips, loans, for both of you - and engage a good family solicitor.

It's a horrible situation, but you can't change the past, only the future.

If you are finding that amount of booze hidden, especially spirits then she's drinking far more than 100 units a week imo!

Mate of mine was in exactly the same position as you for years, the kids wanted him to leave, he spoke about divorce, he kept staying because he loved her. This went on for 10 years or more and in that time she lost her job, her friends, her family and eventually her life.

Booze its interesting isnt it. Due to twin mad a box of frogs kids, busy life and work, and exercise/bikes I have pretty much given up drinking, and my wife tbh. Social life has disintegrated. Mates have stopped inviting me out, its getting worse as time goes on.

I do drink when out but not always, just dont love the taste anymore, or feeling like shit the next day.

I guess this is why its hard for some to stop completely as the social life goes pop.

Good luck

Protect your kids. This should be your number one priority.
Personally I'd be questioning my own need to be having any alcohol given your wife's dependence on it. Just cur it out, it's easier than you think and will help your kids with trust in you and any possible future custody issues.

My wife was raised by an alcoholic mother and a string of abusive step dad's. She has been mentally damaged and some of the stories are heart breaking. Kids need stability and an alcoholic parent is the exact opposite of this.
What ever you do, please consider how this will impact your children's future.

Me, I'd be out of there and take the kids.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

20 pints a week an alcoholic? Bollox!

It not be healthy but it's not even close to an alcoholic.

It not be healthy but it’s not even close to an alcoholic.

I think it depends largely on the relationship one has with it, rather than just a purely quantity based calculation.

I think it depends largely on the relationship one has with it, rather than just a purely quantity based calculation.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of "relationship" would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

20 pints a week an alcoholic? Bollox!
It not be healthy but it’s not even close to an alcoholic.

I would agree and say 20 points a week is getting close to an alcoholic thats gotta be like 2-3 pints a night or over 50 units a week (my math is awful) which is a lot more than guidance. I bet if you went to a GP they would class you as someone who has some sort of mild drinking problem clinically speaking any way. Alcoholics are not just people who stagger around at 11am holding a can already drunk you could hold down a 9-5 and still be a functioning alcoholic.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

I think this is far too complicated to answer it could be a million things. Are you drinking to cope with a stressful life?, are you getting black out drunk a few nights a week?, does your drinking impact others around you?, once you start do you feel you can't stop. The list could be endless. Im not saying any of those things are you btw.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

This is probably a good place to start to get an idea. I'm sure it's not perfect but it is part of the alcohol misuse section of the nhs website. For reference, suggested alcohol consumption is no more than 14 units per week. 20 pints a week is 40 - 60 units depending on the drink. In a medical setting that sort of level would certainly be ringing alarm bells.

link here

What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

If you're worried that you won't be able to have your beer, or your worry about the amount of beer you're drinking, or you're telling lies about the amount you're drinking,  and you're still consuming it regardless, then you have a problem relationship with alcohol even at that level of consumption.

2 - 3 pints a night, is an alcoholic?

Well just about everyone I have worked with, in various sectors of the marine and offshore industries, is an alcoholic and massively so. Well, when they are when ashore anyway. Majority of the ones who were tea total, were recovering alcoholics.

Also, if you go into any typical local village pub, by your measurements, 95% of the customers will be alcoholic.

2 – 3 pints a night, is an alcoholic?

If you're drinking that every day, and you're having the sorts of struggles with it that I mention in my previous post; Not having it worries you, you're concerned but continue anyway, or you're deceiving other people about it, then yes, I'd call that level of consumption; problem drinking

OP you mentioned that she's holding down her job, what's the "culture" of her work like?

I'm well aware that the social and behavioural norms differ significantly between my work, my missus work and our home environment and that can create some odd stresses.

Essentially are there some "external influences" perhaps helping to reinforce/support her alcohol dependence?

Also you say this has happened over the course of 3/4 years, so almost half of that period has been during the pandemic. Has the disruption/curtailing of freedoms etc been a contributing factor also? Did things get exponentially worse since early 2020?
Are there any other factors that could be addressed in order to get at the root causes of her drinking? (Obviously very difficult with someone suffering a level of denial).

Again, I'm not someone with useful direct experience but I can imagine that should it come to the worst and divorce is the route you have to take, having tried to explore/understand all aspects of her addiction in an effort to help her could well play in your favour...

Good luck whatever happens from here.

Like others have said, it really depends on why people are drinking not necessarily the amount.
Abusing alcohol can sometimes be a way to self-harm too. Don't know if it helps to think of it that way, @djglover ?

@gobuchul
The people you've worked with may not be alcoholics or alcohol dependent but I would suggest that type of lifestyle might lead people to become alcohol dependent when otherwise they might not have been. I imagine it's a very on/off lifestyle and when you're off you'd better enjoy yourself and that can involve drinking more than you should.
I used to work in journalism and there's not really a drinking culture in that industry any more. Go back 40 years though and it was rife. A person wouldn't have necessarily known they developing a problem with alcohol as they wouldn't have been doing anything different to anyone else but, put in another profession, they'd have stood out like a sore thumb.

I'm not speculating on your drinking habits btw. Mine are pretty unhealthy at the moment so definitely not being holier than thou.

problem drinking

I think that defines someone drinking 20 pints a week more accurately than calling them an alcoholic.

Surely ‘alcoholic’ is somebody physically addicted to alcohol. Not someone who drinks to excess. I decided to stop completely about a year ago due to an unrelated issue, fitness goals mainly But I was on a bottle of red a night at least.

According to some on here, I was over the NHS guidance and therefore an alcoholic and so should’ve been fitting and hallucinating when I stopped. Well, nothing happened. We live in a weird culture where getting shitfaced all the time is normalised. My girlfriend at the time would be regularly putting away five bottles of white wine and I was the boring one!

on the 40 units per week, Drinkaware classifies me as "Increasing Risk" from a health perspective. I try an limit the volume and strength of the beer that I drink to fairly moderate levels. I did get drunk one this year, that was on a night out with some old friends. Typical night for me would be 3-4 330ml cans of 4% craft beer. I accept I drink more than is healthy sure.

I'm not a clinician but I've worked extensively around health & lifestyle issues, including alcohol intake assessments.

According to some on here, I was over the NHS guidance and therefore an alcoholic

You were over the NHS guidance, that's not up for debate.

Alcohol intake alone won't be used to label you "alcoholic", but without checking I'm reasonably confident you'd have been categorised as high risk and advised to see your GP.

My girlfriend at the time would be regularly putting away five bottles of white wine

Over the course of one evening? That does sound a bit beyond drinking for pleasure TBH.