Wow, some real personal attacks here, surely this is not the place for that?
Criticism may be fair but some of what's been said above is just plain offensive.
Doubtful. The bikes are likely already paid for, the shop will then sell them for trade at the end of the year.
Fair enough, I was unaware of how the bike park rentals work.
Which in a sea full of boat anchors is hardly going to be difficult is it , there hasn’t been a light orange since the early 90s
Didn't the 22x series bikes have the title of lightest production DH frames (~7lb w/o shock) right up until the end of the Peaty era when everyone else went hydroformed and/or carbon?
my 222 was sub 40lbs which was pretty light back then. Wasn't even a conscious effort to get it that light.
On the subject of floating brake arms, the bike was faster without in my experience
On the subject of floating brake arms, the bike was faster without in my experience.
True. Never mind the fact that on a bike that already sounds like a handful of bolts being shaken in a biscuit tin that arm made a hell of a racket. I ended up faffing about with making teflon washers just so it didn't rattle so much.
My large 224 evo in 2010 weighed 40lbs on the nose which was pretty light when you look at all the other multi pivoted monstrosities people were riding back then. That was straight out of the shop in standard spec.
The only problem was the fork was crap, the shock was crap, it had skinny little Mavic rims which collected dents for fun and when you were on the brakes the rear wheel turned into a jack hammer.
Still did a season in Whistler with it so looking back I had more fun on that bike than any other before or since.
I've noticed that Danny's bike park has closed and has had its Facebook page taken down.
This is after operating contrary to the Covid rules and subsequently being advised to close by the Forestry Commission and British Cycling.
Paul Hart then went on a bit of a Facebook rampage, both on his own profile and writing on behalf of the Bike Park's profile, complaining about BC and the FC, complaining that Covid was a hoax, threatening to attack anyone who rode the trails, banning people from the bike park in future who disagreed with him etc etc, with some rather fruity language from the Bike Park's account.
This has all now been removed.
I wonder if this will have any bearing on Danny's future contract / team, as he has (or has put his name to) anti Covid views, and running the bike park whilst flouting restrictions. Indeed today on Instagram his story shows him visiting a business which is clearly operating contrary to the English Covid restrictions. It also shows just how much of a loose cannon his father appears to be.
Currently you can still hire a saracen bike there (I guess once lockdown is over) for cash only. Avoiding giving saracen their cut of rental money? Or was it always a cash only site?
To be fair, they have always been cash only. There is no or little phone signal and I'm not sure if they even have running water or mains electricity it is that remote. It has always been like this long before Danny got onboard
Paul Hart then went on a bit of a Facebook rampage, both on his own profile and writing on behalf of the Bike Park’s profile, complaining about BC and the FC, complaining that Covid was a hoax, threatening to attack anyone who rode the trails, banning people from the bike park in future who disagreed with him etc etc, with some rather fruity language from the Bike Park’s account.
What a roaster. Blowing up brands and burning bridges a specialty.
I wonder if this will have any bearing on Danny’s future contract / team, as he has (or has put his name to) anti Covid views, and running the bike park whilst flouting restrictions.
It absolutely does. Brands hire riders to promote the brand and sell bikes - not many companies won’t to be associated with people like that
Just had a quick look on Paul Hart's Facebook page. Yep, it's still all anti-immigration ranting and whinging about lefty snowflakes. He's in no way unusual. I'm from the northeast and he both looks like and sounds like every man I grew up around and then had to go to work with at every job I had up there.
Paul Hart then went on a bit of a Facebook rampage, both on his own profile and writing on behalf of the Bike Park’s profile, complaining about BC and the FC, complaining that Covid was a hoax, threatening to attack anyone who rode the trails, banning people from the bike park in future who disagreed with him etc etc, with some rather fruity language from the Bike Park’s account.
Please tell me someone has screenshots?
He sounds like the sort of bloke I would love to have a pint with.
As to where Danny is going, best keep an eye on an mtb website such as vital or pinkbike.
Danny seems to do fine when it's all about being on a bike and using his undoubted talent.
When he either has to think, or involve his auld dad, well...
I think they’ve done a bit of cleaning up. All I can find from Paul and Descend is
1) some fairly normal pro-brexit and anti immigrant stuff, which while I may disagree with, I’m happy to remain friends with people who share far worse
2) bike park stuff where he is trying to get some answers about why they have to shut when other trail centres and stuff stays open - where he actually comes across rather well mannered and highly educated compared to some of the comments...
Looks like someone took offence at a post I made.
Let's just say that doing a quick bit of social meedya stalking on Hart Snr and Mrs Hart Jnr is an eye opener.
A bit like a reality TV version of Viz, but without the humour.
I think they’ve done a bit of cleaning up. All I can find from Paul and Descend is
1) some fairly normal pro-brexit and anti immigrant stuff, which while I may disagree with, I’m happy to remain friends with people who share far worse
2) bike park stuff where he is trying to get some answers about why they have to shut when other trail centres and stuff stays open – where he actually comes across rather well mannered and highly educated compared to some of the comments…
Please tell me someone has screenshots?
Have a look on the Hamsterley Riders Facebook page and some remnants are still lurking about, plus seeing others' comments gives a picture:
"The easiest way to become a member is by riding the tracks and waiting for Paul Hart to catch you and beat you."
As has been said, a lot has been cleaned up in the past week, perhaps something has been said.
Just had a quick look on Paul Hart’s Facebook page. Yep, it’s still all anti-immigration ranting and whinging about lefty snowflakes. He’s in no way unusual. I’m from the northeast and he both looks like and sounds like every man I grew up around and then had to go to work with at every job I had up there.
I agree - a lot of people in the northeast seem to have complete disregard for Covid and if you believe in it or follow rules then you are a raging lefty allied to Corbyn. OF course this does not represent the whole population, and may just be the fact that those views appear to be shared more. Let'snot turn this into a Covid chat though, there are enough of those going about...
Happy to continue to dish the dirt on Paul Hart though!!
I went down a Facebook and cyber stalking rabbit hole with the Hart's and ended up scrolling through Danny's wedding photos on his missus's page. Just to see if there was any MTB faces I could see. And cos I'm a nosy bastard. Only recognised Scotty mears mind
I still feel a bit grubby but AFAIC it's Zuckerbergs and hanny darts wife's fault.
fairly normal pro-brexit
Errrrr......?
🤔
As much as I am personally anti brexit and think the whole idea of putting it to a referendum was idiotic; I can empathise with someone wanting what they voted for.
I'm really only posting on this thread for a reaction, which is naughty of me.
I'm going to stop.
I am genuinely interested in where Danny goes next year, though.
I love watching him ride, he makes great shapes on the bike and goes for stuff that many other world class riders look at, but don't do.
descend FB page had disappeared but is back now. Listing temporarily closed.
We went near the end of October and there was zero covid consideration anywhere, no masks on buses or in cabins etc. It was a bit odd.
We went near the end of October and there was zero covid consideration anywhere, no masks on buses or in cabins etc. It was a bit odd.
Welcome to the north east.
I am genuinely interested in where Danny goes next year, though.
I love watching him ride, he makes great shapes on the bike and goes for stuff that many other world class riders look at, but don’t do.
+1
@benpinnick I mean Vicky comes from there has put up with you for 25 years so they must be a bit odd?
I am genuinely interested in where Danny goes next year, though.
He's going to Cube. Did anyone mention that yet?
Did anyone mention that yet?
Cube certainly haven’t.....
Now if we can get a Rich Energy sponsorship deal for him...
We went near the end of October and there was zero covid consideration anywhere, no masks on buses or in cabins etc. It was a bit odd.
Yes, I understand that they were reported a few times by different people. A rider who had booked on in advance turned up to find few Covid protocols and approached Paul Hart to raise concerns. He was promptly told to "F*** Off its our business we can do what we like".
Oh and they don't have planning permission for their hut extension, latest start hut and new jump trail...
@benpinnick I mean Vicky comes from there has put up with you for 25 years so they must be a bit odd?
True Dat.
Loris off the Syndicate confirmed today.. sad to see him go as they all made a great team. But where to..?
I can only see it being Commencal. Surely.... but still, a little confused why he's left i must say.
It was suggested he'd be the lead rider on Trek, which seems a very solid and sensible move for both parties.
Commencal already have the best team in the biz, and Loris wouldn't join the same team as Amaury.
but still, a little confused why he’s left i must say.
I can only see it being Commencal
I actually had a suspicion Minnaar was heading there. He was down at Max Commencal's house a few weeks ago
It was suggested he’d be the lead rider on Trek, which seems a very solid and sensible move for both parties.
DH confuses me though as i guess does some parts of life. Clearly the SC is a bloody fine machine, the Trek, i'd argue potentially less impressive, even if only fractions of a second here or there, i still think the SC and Commencal are the pick of the bunch.
The highest 2020 overall on Trek was Kade Edwards in 38th, sure the new World Champ may have topped that, but injury dictated he didn't.... but Trek, really.... Come on... Why go somewhere you're less likely to win on, even if for more money. MTB is a finite timescale due to injury, fitness and age etc, so to be on the best performing bike surely must be a priority.
Why go somewhere you’re less likely to win on, even if for more money. MTB is a finite timescale due to injury, fitness and age etc
You could argue that is a reason to take money over results. It is the same equation all professionals in sports with a higher chance of career ending injury do each time a negotiation comes up.
It is why so many pro rugby players end up in France or Japan. Risk vs reward.
I don't 'like' it, but I'd be the same - if I was good at mountain biking or rugby.
Luckily it isn't an issue for me!
but Trek, really…. Come on… Why go somewhere you’re less likely to win on
I'm not gonna suggest you're being naive, but maybe look back over the past decade and reconsider that.
Trek have had the two most-dominant downhillers of this era - Gwin and Rachel - at their peaks.
It's not surprising they want to get back up there again and might recruit the best prospect of beating Loic or Amaury in the overall.
SC obviously make a fast bike, but I doubt everything is as happy-go-lucky there as their hype would have us believe.
I’m not gonna suggest you’re being naive, but maybe look back over the past decade and reconsider that.
You can't look at the last decade though, you have to look at the here and now, sure i get Trek want to build the best bike, but they're currently not, so why would that change overnight ? Just because he signs for them... Mmmmm.
so to be on the best performing bike surely must be a priority.
right, and the “best performing bike” in the 2020 season is clearly going to be the one under the rider who won the championship, so Danny should be riding...oh...never mind
but they’re currently not
But isn't it harder to build a great bike without great riders? I suspect there is a bit of a vicious circle here where the engineers aren't getting pushed / challenged / pressured by riders with precise useful feedback on what they need more or less of. Surely product development happens quicker/better/more with success for all sorts of reasons.
But isn’t it harder to build a great bike without great riders? I suspect there is a bit of a vicious circle here where the engineers aren’t getting pushed / challenged / pressured by riders with precise useful feedback on what they need more or less of. Surely product development happens quicker/better/more with success for all sorts of reasons.
Yeah i can get my head around that. It's also better engineers and crew/pit etc too, along with things like tyres/suspension etc too. I can easily see why Trek would want and would sign him... But i'm still not 100% convinced if he is making the best move for him.
It's a complicated nexus of rider, bike, product development and confidence.
The Trek is clearly a high-performing bike anyway, judging by Reece's speed this year and Charlie Harrison's results in 2019.
They don't have a recent top overall result to impress the more casual fan, because they weren't paying for a top overall rider.
If Loris does go to Trek (and I'll feel a bit silly if he doesn't now), he'll boost his confidence as the lead rider, he'll have some great teammates and have the resources of one of the biggest bike companies in the world behind him.
From what I've read Loris wants to be the no.1 rider in whatever team he is in , the syndicate doesn't work like that so off he goes . Not sure how the current world champion would feel about being a no.2 at Trek though .
When someone goes to a team and starts losing, there are questions about the bike. But unless there is an obvious flaw, all the top bikes are competitive.
Weeksy just claimed the top two bikes are the V10 and the Commencal, which I'd be inclined to agree with. Thats a carbon VPP and an alloy high idler single pivot which couldnt really be more different.
But geometry.... within reason is modifyable with headsets, linkages and dropouts.
My objection to Vergier > Trek is they seem to be an all in one package. Matchy match kits and obviously being part of the great trek bicycle empire comes with bontrager tyres and finishing kit etc.
Loris has a penchant for unique outfits, and has a pile of varied sponsors, which seemed to fit well on the syndicate.
Are we really discussing the current Session? It's long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement. The new Session will be high pivot and they need a top rider to show what it can do. Enter Loris.
Trek will be spending more on riders next year than they had planned. They were already planning on Loris, and Reece Wilson didn't have a ride for 2021 until he won World Champs. They couldn't just let their new world champ go, so signed him again but I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
I'm interested to see where Jamie Edmondson ends up.
I'll just add that the current World Cup overall champ is on a relatively low-budget team with a bike that his team mate was modifying using a floating brake arm.
It's not (all) about the bike.
I'd imagine downhill racing is fairly similar to motorsport in that it pretty much all comes down to money.
I used to work in single make championships. Every team had exactly the same car. In order to take part you needed a minimum of £50,000 per year. In order to win you needed a minimum of £150,000 per year.
Even if there are differences in the performance of the bike I would say those differences would be eclipsed by the differences made with a having a higher budget.
Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement. The new Session will be high pivot and they need a top rider to show what it can do. Enter Loris.
Good point, I was wondering if the rumours about more high-pivot bikes might include Trek. And Loris is sure to have done his due diligence on the bike anyway.
I’m interested to see where Jamie Edmondson ends up.
Might be wrong, but I don't quite see him at the Syndicate. Angel Suarez just left YT though.
Enter Loris.
Are we just writing-off the World Champ immediately?
Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement.
Apart from a high pivot with idler - which none of the mens winners this year had - what exactly is wrong with the current session? geo and wheelsize seem current, four bar linkage seems to work.
Genuine question from an armchair DH watcher and trail bike rider who has never given a big travel bike a ride in anger.
The syndicate always strikes me as a slightly off team in the beyond the bike there is no common sponsors. It must be more work as a rider to have to manage and deliver multiple contracts for multiple sponsors who may have competing demands on your time then sign 1 contract with a team and they sort everything else for you
Angel Suarez has been known to go on the odd jolly with the Syndicate...
mashr
Full Member
Enter Loris.Are we just writing-off the World Champ immediately?
If you bothered to follow the narrative of what I typed, you'd see that I wasn't writing Reece off at all. Anybody that closely follows gravity mtb racing should know that current form is the best predictor of success - he's dangerous.
ayjaydoubleyou
Free Member
Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement.Apart from a high pivot with idler – which none of the mens winners this year had – what exactly is wrong with the current session? geo and wheelsize seem current, four bar linkage seems to work.
Genuine question from an armchair DH watcher and trail bike rider who has never given a big travel bike a ride in anger.
It was definitely due a big geometry update at the very least. Circa 460mm reach on an XL. The fact that Reece, who's of distinctly average height, is on an XL demonstrates that nicely.
It definitely looks like high pivot is the way things are moving. GT Fury is high pivot too and Devinci racers have been racing a high pivot prototype.
On that note, I hope Dakotah Norton gets a ride. He deserves it.
Not sure how the current world champion would feel about being a no.2 at Trek though .
Probably doesn't have much choice, he's won a World Champs & that's it at this stage. He just snuck into the top 20 overall for 2019 and R&R says they have head to heads of 38 events. 31 to Loris, 7 to Reece.
I'd be going with Vergier all day long 🙂
R&R says they have head to heads of 38 events. 31 to Loris, 7 to Reece
How many of them 7 did Vergier finish/DNF ?
what exactly is wrong with the current session?
probably nothing that an interim update wouldn’t solve, but as so often is the case it’s just down to whether ‘a’ rider and ‘a’ bike just gel. I don’t think these things can always be straightforward
I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.
How many of them 7 did Vergier finish/DNF ?
Head to heads only count when there is a finishing time for both participants. Looking at the results, a DNS/DNF is rare for Vergier, trying to remember but he's had a few crashes in the past and rolled down for a time, or a mechanical, like this year.
I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.
I can kind of agree - must be difficult to make a bike thats an adjustable high performance race bike, an indestructible resort hire bike and a machine that flatters the average punter; with a production run of a few hundred.
I'd expect something like a Maxxis team or a Fox Suspension team in the not too distant future. Or perhaps more non-bike headline sponsors like Dorval.
While I totally agree on Loris being the safer bet, Reece has been a later starter and both were on sensational form this year.
If Reece's injury hasn't knocked too much of the wind out of his sails, they'd be competing with each other as much as the rest of the field in 2021.
Has there ever been a stronger field in the men's? Loic, Greg, Loris, Amaury, Troy, Matt, Danny, Reece - all potential contenders for the overall. And a few more who might find winning form.
Looking at the results, a DNS/DNF is rare for Vergier,
All the top teams are more than willing to wreck a bike or roll down with an injury for an extra minute on TV.
I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.
I wouldn’t argue, aside from the fact people have been saying the same thing for years. Enduro was supposed to DH, before that it was the big non bike brands pulling out because of the credit crunch, before that it was broadcast TV leaving.
The truth is whilst they sell less DH bikes now, they’ve NEVER sold a lot of them and DH’s audience on Redbull has been growing year on year. DH is like what F1 is to Cars and with cycling on the rise again, they will want their brand on the podium.
Reece has only been on a factory bike for 1 full season last year and the world champs race this year. Vergier has been factory supported his whole elite career so not a cut and dried comparison. Looking briefly at R&R the gap has closed with Loris on top, but not by as wide a margin as before he signed with Trek
Lots of people reading into the results of 2020 looking for trends. Remember that 2020 'season' was a damp squib which went off way too late in the year.
Champs was a washout which was painful to watch unless you're Scottish (fair play to Reece he was killing it all week) and the two double headers were full of riders who already seemed over it and dying for the off-season.
I love seeing new faces on the podium and new winners coming through but I'm aware that 2020 was no substitute for a full season of regular racing. I hope Wilson and Walker can stay up in the mix next year. It's exciting when a new generation is pushing through but they often can't go all the way.
sharkattack
Free MemberChamps was a washout which was painful to watch unless you’re Scottish (fair play to Reece he was killing it all week)
I loved it tbh. (and not just because I'm Scottish and I know Reece a bit), I might have preferred a perfect conditions race but I do love a battle with the elements.
nickc
Full Memberright, and the “best performing bike” in the 2020 season is clearly going to be the one under the rider who won the championship, so Danny should be riding…oh…never mind
I'm quite fond of saying that my ancient Trek is the most succesful enduro race bike of all time. It is, it probably always will be... But it's not because it was the best bike, it was because they put Tracy Moseley on it and she won absolutely everything for years because she's Tracy Moseley.
It's never just the bike. It's not really just the rider either because there's no bad bikes at the top end. But the thing that messes it up, is that some riders don't like some bikes. When Gwin went to Specialized there was nothing wrong with the bike, it just didn't suit him. Likewise with a bunch of Sam Hill's moves.
I loved it tbh. (and not just because I’m Scottish and I know Reece a bit), I might have preferred a perfect conditions race but I do love a battle with the elements.
I've got nothing against the 'elements' but we watched a freshly cut, unridden track turn into an impossible bog where riders were pushing their bikes down the hill at a venue with lots of much better all-weather options. It was farcical.
I'm glad Reece won because he was up for it all week and putting in banging runs. I just think if someone completely unknown had won we'd be writing it off and waiting for next year.
As for the current Trek Session, it's been around a while now hasn't it? Not that many people review DH bikes anymore but I've heard that the BB is too high, the wheelbase is too short and it gets hung up in the rough stuff the way the newest big wheeled rocket ships just don't. The way those Commencals go absolutely blazing over serious terrain looks amazing.
Commencals usually have some zFrenchy on them, hence le blazeings.
Loris has potential to be up there with Amaury and Loic every round now, hope Amaury is back on it.
Reeces banged noggin was such a shame, really hope it wasnt just because everyone else hated the mud.
Walker has just gone quietly to the very top level, amazing.
Total shame for Vali Holl, hoping the far few too many top female talents are all healthy for a few races before Rach knocks it on the head.
This year was a weird one, brilliant viewing the back to backs when it finally happened but fingers crossed back to normal next year.
Anyone know how Dannys Dads getting on?
Most recently agreeing with things Jacob Rees-Mogg is saying - so situation normal
Seems loris is off to specialised if Instagram is to be believed.
sharkattack
Free MemberI’ve got nothing against the ‘elements’ but we watched a freshly cut, unridden track turn into an impossible bog where riders were pushing their bikes down the hill at a venue with lots of much better all-weather options. It was farcical.
TBF, the people that were pushing, I don't care much about except as a way of showing just how good the absolute best are. The flipside was, we got to see a load of riding that was basically sorcery. I'll take that.
TL;DR who's Danny riding for in 2021?
Cube
Seems loris is off to specialised if Instagram is to be believed.
There seemed to be a bit of a team pile-on after that. Even the Decathlon Team was claiming he was their's.
Decathlon have a team?!?
yes - they're racing rebadged SC V10's with Danny and Loris.
Anyone know how Dannys Dads getting on?
Opening up the bike park with minimal Social Distancing, allowing people to buy food and sit at the cabin with it, oh and planning to serve alcohol on December 20th in blatant flouting of any laws. If you pull them up on it, you get the usual attitude from Hart Snr.
I rode past today and the bike park was heaving, not many masks at all and loads of blokes stood in close groups. Whilst they advertise that there is no uplift running, there clearly is, unless the full minibus of muddy maskless gents is something else...
If you pull them up on it, you get the usual attitude from Hart Snr.
What attitude does he give to the police? Seems more serious than 10 people having a dinner party.
Doesn’t he have form regarding an event marshal?
Surprised he hasn’t had a £10,000 fine for the blatant disregard for current law
