Crowdfunder for uplift bike park in Notts.

Forgive my cynicism, but Nottinghamshire isn’t exactly known for its elevation differences…

And linky no worky

Good luck to them but in the age of the ebike I can't see small venues being able to offer a financially viable regular uplift service.

Working link.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/bike-park---nottinghamshire
Nope. Can't get the link to work.

£500,000 needed <shocked face emoji>

Forgive my cynicism, but Nottinghamshire isn’t exactly known for its elevation differences…

This is true. We've worked out where it is, and it looks like it drops from about 125m to 70m

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/bike-park---nottinghamshire

It's a long way down the Google results

Forgive my cynicism, but Nottinghamshire isn’t exactly known for its elevation differences…

Pit tips?

I don't think there's a county in the UK that couldn't have a decent bike park, just look at Twisted Oaks for what you can do with a very little hill so elevation gain shouldn't be an issue.

You can do loads on a 50m hill. But I find it hard to believe that loading a bike onto a trailer and being driven back up will be that time efficient for a hill that size. I think it takes about 5 minutes to cycle up 50m, even for a slow old man like me

Or are they doing something higher tech than vehicles

Got to agree with the above after spending a lot of my formative years riding around Nottinghamshire.

Trail centre? Go for it.
Uplift? Seems unnecessary for 50m

Can't see a working link.

If it's a drag lift or a travelator I'm in. If it's a dirty diesel truck and shonky trailer I'd rather pedal up.

One of the listed jobs is for drivers, so reckon it’s a van & trailer.

As above, I’m sure they’re can do plenty with what little elevation there is, I just don’t see the uplift being an attraction that many would pay for, especially if they are on an ebike. Unless you have to pay for it in order to use the rest of the park?

Yeah another trail centre would be great, uplift not needed.

Redhill used to have an uplift for a 4x track, it actually worked really well and made complete sense. A good uplift will always beat riding but I think quite a few venues don't have the most efficient uplift service any more.

The way the uplift route goes slightly out of the park boundary and back in suggests it will be going up a public road?
No hopping on a hay trailer clutching your bike, this will be proper strapped in, minibus territory.

£500k to launch someone else's profit making business? Which presumably is because a bank doesn't agree with the business model, or the owner won't / can't put thier own money down?

Hmmm

£500k to launch someone else’s profit making business? Which presumably is because a bank doesn’t agree with the business model, or the owner won’t / can’t put thier own money down?

It works for Alpkit! 🤣🤣🤣

If I was closer I'd chip in, might chip in anyway. If/when it's up and running I could see me and mini me using it, they are too small for BPW and the like but find the boring up 30 seconds down of smaller trail centres too dull.

I've just seen this on a local Facebook group, the idea of an uplift for a 50mtr hill seems ridiculous to me and it's been suggested that an uplift pass will be £30-35 and a pedal pass will be "cheaper". How does that compare to other bike parks? It's not the kind of riding I'm interested in but seems like an expensive day out to me.

£30-35 is cheap in uplift terms.... But only if it's pretty damn good.

Blimey so many negative waves. The East Midlands is desperate for something like this and it can only be a good thing - worth chipping in I say. Even if the uplift is not viable, in 5 years I can see the light e bike market being massive and places like this will be very popular.

I am absolutely up for the uplift idea.

My local woods are about 100ft (elevation) top to bottom. Sure, I can ride to the top, and I do because I have no other choice. But if I wanted to spend a day there I would really have to spread my runs out so I didn't fatigue too quickly. As it is 2 hours of riding fairly hard down then back up and I'm toast.

Can't afford an ebike, so a similar place with longer trails and uplift just 20 minutes extra drive away means I am sold on the place. It's a great idea.

My local woods are about 100ft top to bottom

I'm hoping that's a typo and there's a "0" missing.

I’m hoping that’s a typo and there’s a “0” missing.

Nope, 100ft elevation is all we have, and there are some cracking trails in there.

The first person in the UK * who susses out how to use a recycled drag lift/button/chair onto a medium sized hill for mountain bike purposes will clean up. This makes far, far more sense than another bunch of filthy landrovers/transits bouncing up and down a fire road.

* The generally populous bit, so Fort William etc is not really what I'm talking about. And it doesnt need to be anywhere near as big as a huge mountain side gondola. Think about the 'free' slopes you get at the bottom of nearly all Ski resorts, often its a t-bar or button that doesnt even need manning, doesnt go fast, but it allows you to do endless laps of a reasonable bit of hill all day long.

snotrag, agree, would work at any of the southern bike parks, forest of dean, qecp etc.
My only issue with uplift is that I think Ebikes are killing it.(edit - everyone else has said this, I should really read more threads, the auto end of thread link think is a good/bad thing)
We did FOD uplift  a few months ago and there were literally hundreds of ebikes there.
Edit - Note FOD is "only" about 40m drop and the uplift is a great thing, the descents are excellent. In fact you only really need a small gradient to have loads of fun. Top of FOD is very gentle gradient but is also brilliant So the height thing is a total red herring. .

They experimented with this at Sheffield Ski Village, I think the results were its possible but not great, I imagine its also difficult to secure when the park is closed.

My only issue with uplift is that I think Ebikes are killing it.
We did FOD uplift  a few months ago and there were literally hundreds of ebikes there.

There's, handily, no way to ride back up in that plan linked 😉

There’s, handily, no way to ride back up in that plan linked

Clever.

Nope, 100ft elevation is all we have, and there are some cracking trails in there.

I don't doubt that at all - one of my local spots is similar, 30-50m elevation on 2-4 min long descents.

But it takes less than 5 minutes to climb 1km with 50m elevation, and 3 minutes to climb 30m. In 2 hours riding it's fairly easy to get in 600+m and 20km.

But, there's no way an uplift is required for 30m or 50m of elevation gain. By the time you've waited a minute for the van, took another minute loading up, then taken the long way up the hill, then unloaded you'd have already got to the top.

I wish em well, hope they can pull it off if they think that's what people want. I do think the uplift is ridiculous for a 50mtr hill but I'd be much happier if it was something more innovative and sustainable rather than an old mini bus chugging up and down with a trailer.

Pointless and overly expensive both in terms of crowdfunding and uplift pass.

Never gonna happen.

Went to a bikepark in Slovakia a while back that used a button lift.
A friend just couldn't get on with it, with hilarious consequences 😂

Great system for a small hill though.

Edit – Note FOD is “only” about 40m drop and the uplift is a great thing, the descents are excellent.

Pretty sure the main push up/climb is 100m/300ft at FOD.

That's about right as a minimum for an uplift IMO, when I rode at Aberfeldy that climb is 155m and took around 15 mins. I was thinking if I lived there and wanted to either get a days riding in or wanted a quick hour after work, an ebike would be ideal.

Blimey so many negative waves. The East Midlands is desperate for something like this and it can only be a good thing – worth chipping in I say. Even if the uplift is not viable, in 5 years I can see the light e bike market being massive and places like this will be very popular.

I would like to remind you of Sheffield Ski Village trails.

Once a Steve Peat endorsed, crowdfunded idea:

Proposals were huge:
https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/sheffield-ski-village-to-receive-22-5m-redevelopment/

Time, costs and Covid interrupted and it is now:
https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/sheffield-ski-village-july-2019.120114/

Interestingly the work at Lady Cannings and elsewhere was much lower cost, led by volunteers and seems to have hit the mark and sustained without a business running over the top of it.(I am no longer a Sheffield Local, perhaps others can better comment on this).

I think my summary is that urban and local, easily accessible trails are great.
Building a profit making business from it, less easy.

I've worked out where it is, and from google street view it barely even looks like a hill. I know you can get decent rrails with not much elevation but an uplift would be overkill, especially if it just going up the road.

Hope it works for them in some form though, as it's not far from where some of my family live, so would take my son there if the pedal up price wasn;t too silly.

I’ve worked out where it is, and from google street view it barely even looks like a hill

Link?

(To me it sounds like someone has a parcel of land in mind, but hasn't the money to buy the land and so want's it quiet before someone beats them to it...)

Blimey so many negative waves. The East Midlands is desperate for something like this and it can only be a good thing – worth chipping in I say. Even if the uplift is not viable, in 5 years I can see the light e bike market being massive and places like this will be very popular.

Aye. "We want more trails....but not those type of trails"

I don’t doubt that at all – one of my local spots is similar, 30-50m elevation on 2-4 min long descents.

But it takes less than 5 minutes to climb 1km with 50m elevation, and 3 minutes to climb 30m. In 2 hours riding it’s fairly easy to get in 600+m and 20km.

But, there’s no way an uplift is required for 30m or 50m of elevation gain. By the time you’ve waited a minute for the van, took another minute loading up, then taken the long way up the hill, then unloaded you’d have already got to the top.

All well and good, for you. You are clearly fitter than me. Because two hours with that amount of elevation is not 'fairly easy'

So it's not about the time, it is about the fatigue that comes from repeatedly climbing back to the top and how that impacts riding down the trails again. For winch & plummet riding getting assistance to the top is the difference between an hour and a half vs a full day out. I'd like to go and spend six hours on the trails, but that's just not going to happen.

Yea I know, easy answer, get fitter.

Link?

(To me it sounds like someone has a parcel of land in mind, but hasn’t the money to buy the land and so want’s it quiet before someone beats them to it…)

I didn't think it was fair to give away where it was, if they're being open about it.

That is a fair point...

Pretty sure the main push up/climb is 100m/300ft at FOD.

According to my strava its 129m... Oops.
I'd still be happy with 40m uplift.

I am of the opinion that they are being coy about location for a number of reasons.

Currently it's not used much based on strava viewing. I expect they want to keep it that way.
I also suspect they will need some planning permission, and it is probably a lot easier to do so if they have a good amount of backing and public support before shouting to the locals about a new bike park
It may also be a stipualtion of the landowner that it is not public until it is 100% going ahead.

It's taken me about 5 minutes to find the location, not being a local and only with basic information (shop location, and picture of the woods).

There's not many bits of wood on hills there, so not exactly hard to find!

Looking on OS maps they could have about 75m elevation which would probably make it worthwhile but if that was me I'd not be betting on the uplift side being doable/worth it. Build in a good, interesting climb trail. Because there's a sodding road climb literally right next to/through the wood that is 1km long and 75m of elevation.

1km long and 75m of elevation.

5 mins to ride even at my pootling pace?

5 mins to ride even at my pootling pace?

Bit more, at bimbling place and able to do it 5-10 times in a day.

There's a local climb to me that's 0.7km and 75m, it's a granny ring grinder most of the way up, times for me are 5 mins to 7 mins. Top 10 on Strava is sub 3 mins.

They need a lot of high quality trails to justify buying an uplift pass, if there's not a days worth of riding there it's not going to be great value.

Now, granted - where it is, is in quite a desert of any sort of decent riding - Sherwood pines looks to be the closest actual "mountain biking".

Good luck to them, I hope the half a mil target isn't going to see the project dead before it even starts.

Maybe they should look at the recent Dunoon project, get some established trails in there first and get people riding there regularly then look at getting the costly infrastructure.

You only need 5 or 6 enduro trails to make it a decent little riding spot.

One other thing to add which may help their case with the uplift - not stereotyping people but that area of the world isn't known for it's massive climbs, and taking into account seriousrikk's point about fitness - if you live and ride in that area you'll typically have less fitness than someone who has access to proper hills, so the thought of doing 10x runs in a day at 75m climbing per run would probably put many people off.

I recently rode on a trip with someone who's local spot is twisted oaks, they went on their first 'proper' mountain biking trip outside their local area to Dartmoor and got absolutely destroyed by the hills there. First 2 days were 1125m and 1000m, then an easier 450m day - they just weren't used to that sort of climbing.

Even if the uplift is not viable, in 5 years I can see the light e bike market being massive and places like this will be very popular.

The thing is, without the uplift there is no business, without the business there are no official trails, without the "official" trails there's very possibly a disgruntled landowner and no trails at all.

The uplift needs to be viable for the plan to work and there needs to be enough trails to fill a day, they need to be varied and good enough to draw people not from nots back repeatedly for it to work.

IMO is not a good idea for a business, I'm assuming it's being crowd funded because the banks etc agree. 10 trails on that sort of elevation isn't likely to be enough for that, especially if they're skewed towards the properly black end of things.

For my part, if they want it to be viable, especially uplifted on that sort of site, they need to skew much more towards the family market and offer a lot of progression for newcomers, don't try and compete with places like BPW when you can't, find the things they don't do that you can and do those. Personally this strikes me as a we want this not a we think this will work.

Leeds bike park does a great job with little elevation and no uplift because its family friendly.
FoD manage an uplift because they've got the elevation and a good network of trails but I'd bet a dime to a dollar the site does better out of the family market, children's rides and clubs etc than from the uplift.

It’s a nice idea but if it is located where I think it is I’d be surprised if it gets planning permission- it’s quite an idyllic unspoilt rural location and I think the locals will massively object.

It’s a nice idea but if it is located where I think it is I’d be surprised if it gets planning permission- it’s quite an idyllic unspoilt rural location and I think the locals will massively object.

If you think it is the woods fairly near to the castle (it definatly is) then I am inclined to agree.

I know nothing of this other than what I've read today but apparently the land owners have an history of letting people set up commercial ventures on the land and then pricing them out of business with excessive rent increases and then taking them over for themselves.

from google street view it barely even looks like a hill

Here's my badly redacted map to show elevation:

They have done a Q&A video confirming that there will be a push up trail, the cost being £10-£15

Here’s my badly redacted map to show elevation:

Well, I've just managed to find it from your map & I live in Edinburgh

It's the worst kept secret in Nottinghamshire. Every local MTBer I've spoken to knows, and anyone who spends five minutes looking will find it.
Creation say they're going to announce the location officially in a few weeks

Not sure who’s going to use it?

For any local riders having their wood taken over won’t go down well, and let’s be honest no-one travels to Notts as an MTB destination.

And how do you lock-down a wood that has bridleways and footpaths going through it?

If it’s a drag lift or a travelator I’m in. If it’s a dirty diesel truck and shonky trailer I’d rather pedal up.

I can't help feeling that funiculars get overlooked far too often when there's a "pedal/walkable, but a lift up would be nice" type of incline to deal with. I agree the last thing the world needs is another bunch of knackered transits pelting up and down a forestry trail...

Funicular really is an f-word round here 🙂

According to facebook the lease has already been agreed on the land - anybody getting into bed with her needs to be careful.

I cant see it getting funding myself, the locals will be massively against it, and i don’t really see the appeal of an uplift. They do manage the land proactively to generate as much income as possible so never say never.

A well managed trail centre would be a good addition though, but id be riding there and taking my own lunch!

Calverton pit would have been a better option.

Calverton pit would have been a better option

Now an underground trail centre, that I'd pay to ride

Now an underground trail centre, that I’d pay to ride

The drop down the mine shaft may be a bit extreme! 🤣🤣

Calverton pit would have been a better option

You know when I mentioned 'my local woods' earlier? 😀

Yea, it really is that good there..

The drop down the mine shaft may be a bit extreme! 🤣🤣

Yeah but at least the uplift would be worth while

Derelict dry ski slope in Bracknell…. I think would make an interesting urban bike park.

BC were interested in the idea, but the landowner not interested.

This is true, but isn’t that in Leicestershire and not Notts?

“ I know nothing of this other than what I’ve read today but apparently the land owners have an history of letting people set up commercial ventures on the land and then pricing them out of business with excessive rent increases and then taking them over for themselves. ”

This is true, but isn’t that in Leicestershire and not Notts?

We used to ride there from a local town 15 miles away mid 90s, god knows how we knew where to go, no maps, no kit and one of us on a BMX, I think the surrounding area was so flat you could just aim for the hill that was in front of you, 15 miles away...

I remember one of us descending pretty quick, hit the fire road that cuts across, accidentally launch 5m into the air while cartwheeling over the bars, then riding home, great days, great days...

30 miles + on a BMX and back in time for The Simpsons 🙂

Update: as many already knew, it's near Belvoir Castle, and is to be named Belvoir Bike Park ( It's pronounced Beaver)

I think one of the issues with an uplift is that it massively pushes the price up of a day out. £10-15 is already out of reach for many kids. If it went any near the BPW cost then it becomes a holiday rather than a hobby.

Nice Belvoir.

Hehehe..hehe.. Beaver. *S****s

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Im interested to see what the business model is. At the moment it seems to be please give us £500k in cash so we can set it up and then charge you to use it. Normally with crowdfunded project there is an incentive to give your money, whether thats some form of discount or other ‘benefit’

As for planning given who the owner of the land is and their family connections then I can’t see any problems on that front

seems to have gone quiet on this one - anyone know where its at? - they are a long way short on the crowdfunder and the locals werent too impressed with the line building thats gone on!

The guys behind it are generally into the bike park jump style of trails having ridden some of their unofficial efforts in other local woods. They are well built of jump trails are your thing

Currently sat at 2% funded which equates to a smidge over 12k.

Creation Cycles?
Two proposals to compulsorily liquidate them - 2019 and 2021; both withdrawn.
With that in the background, I would be very hesitant about supporting their crowdfunder if planning to support them - which I'm not.

Announcement regarding our proposed bike park.

Firstly, thank you to all those who contributed towards our Crowdfunder. Sadly we underachieved our target and as a result we have had to go back to the drawing board. For those who contributed, we will be in contact in the next couple of weeks to fulfill your rewards.

The good news is we are still looking to go ahead and try to make this a reality. Therefore, later this summer, we will release a second Crowdfunder and also have a raffle which will include a number of great prizes from some amazing brands that are trying to help.

We have received numerous messages stating just build the trails and it will grow. Unfortunately it is not as simple as that. We have to complete numerous ecological surveys, some of which we have done, meet planning regulations, and on top of that each trail costs roughly £20-£30 per metre to construct. There are also services that need to be in place such as car parking, access roads, water, electricity and waste that all need to be completed before we can even open.

There also continues to be a small minority that feel they can ride on the land already and build illegal trails. Please, if this is you, stop. You are putting the entire project in jeopardy.

Lastly, please be patient. We are trying our hardest to make this happen and sort out all the red tape. We will provide updates as and when we have them.

We have left our crowdfunding page open for donations if you wish to help out.

Thank you.