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I've just started waxing the chain on the commuter as a trial. I thoroughly cleaned the chain and the drive train (all off, all degreased all rinsed) chain waxed - great. First day 60km - all fine, second day, another 60km, but much more damp. The chain is perfect, but the cassette is rusting. It's an Ultegra HG800, so not cheap - what would you normally do to prevent this?
If I'm feeling generous, I use hot water to clean the drivetrain (which seems to be enough to clean the wax off and gets it all spotless). I then apply plenty wax (Squirt) and I let it go on thick. I then run the chain through all the gears and the way also sits on the cassette and chain.
Seems to work for me, does mean a wee bit more wax but it seems worth it as I get 3 years out the whole drivetrain.
I have a DIY blend on the go, I'd share it but it's not quite as good as some of the commercial options so not much point (I get about 2 weeks out of it which is ~300km).
It tends to leave enough residue on the cassette to keep it from rusting though.
If I were you I'd wipe down the cassette with an oily rag or rub some wax on a cloth and 'polish' it to give it some protection. That or ACF50 or similar?
Top up the wax after every wet ride with a high quality drip on wax lube such as Silca Super Secret or Tungsten. Seems to help the rust issues.
What sort of wax?
Given you have degreaesd everything thats your issue. A wee bit oil on the cassette will stop it rusting
I assume it's only rusting where the chain has rested in the cassette rather than the whole cassette?
Even if it's on other spots, it's a combination of water and restricted airflow.
My usual methods are not something you'll want to employ on a commuter, but I'll take the bike indoors, sit it near the radiator or dehumidifier. I'll also remove the chain because if it's wet, I'll rinse it in hot water or because I'm about to rotate chains.
Other options would be a quick blast with a compressor, a heat dryer or a heat gun. I actually have a dog dryer that blows high velocity warm air. That's great for drying a bike in the winter.
Even wiping the chain and cassette with a microfibre cloth would help
Nope, it’s the whole cassette. Silca Hot Wax with the endurance chip. This is it at 180km. It certainly doesn’t feel like it’ll do 600km.
Ah, looking at that, I'm thinking road salt. Did you get much snow your way? If there's still that much salt about, I'd probably give the whole bike a warm water rinse when I got home.
Self confessed bike maintenance tart here though.
Ah, looking at that, I’m thinking road salt. Did you get much snow your way? If there’s still that much salt about, I’d probably give the whole bike a warm water rinse when I got home.
I’d agree. It’s a constant battle to clean the salty grey crap off the critical bits of the work van at the moment.
It’s one of those times where I have to stop mid journey to clean the headlights and door mirrors. I imagine a commuter bike won’t get anywhere near its normal distance without extra lube and attention.
It’s a weak point of wax. I prefer to run plated chains, but really on salty roads a rinse and dry with a towel works best. Love wax for the nice bikes, but for commuting I find a belt hard to beat.
Nope, it’s the whole cassette. Silca Hot Wax with the endurance chip. This is it at 180km. It certainly doesn’t feel like it’ll do 600km.
Oh . I’ve just melted a bag of Silca with an Endurance chip to try and help with rust on my MoltenSpeedWax drivetrain. It wasn’t as bad as that though and I had high hopes for the Silca - I’d better be prepared to be disappointed by the looks of yours. I haven’t put the chain on yet though as I had a MSW one ready to go on so I’ve waxed the outgoing one with Silca in readiness. I had started putting Silca Super Secret drip wax on after recent wet wintry rides and it definitely helped. I also rinse my bike in fresh water before bringing it into the warm to dry..
I’ve (tooth)brushed a little ceramic lube onto the cassette sprockets to keep me going. My drip wax won’t arrive until after the 22nd. I may relax the chain this weekend or simply swap to my other pre-waxed chain. Let’s see how it goes.
@onzadog - yes, it’s been very cold here over the past few weeks. Only a little snow, but always -5 and below so lots of grit sprayed everywhere and little to no rain or mel****er to was it away. Yesterday was very misty around Bristol which led to a lot of surface water and suspended moisture. The bike is utterly filthy after just 60km on road. 
Just spray some wd 40 on it. But not on the chain
Don’t do this, you’ll contaminate the wax on your chain which will eventually find its way into your wax pot.
After a particularly wet ride I remove the chain and rinse with a couple of kettles worth of boiling water, removes the wax and contaminants.
Cassette get a good wash and left it in the open air to dry off, it only gets rusty if I leave it in the garage. Or dry it off by the radiator etc.
Putoline might be your friend here then…
But none of that is particularly practical for a bike that gets used 4 days a week in all weathers at all times of the year.
Agreed, which is why I personally wouldn't bother on a commuter bike.
I just keep splashing lube on it.
I was trying to find a solution where, in less than 3 days I don't end up with a slightly ganky chain which often ends up leaving marks on bibs, tousers, etc and might just need a little less maintenance.
I wax on the winter bike but it pretty much only gets out once on the weekend, rest of the time it's sat on the trainer.
I've had to do the boiling water rinse and back in the crock pot after every weekend ride, that would definitely start to wear a bit thin doing it every 3 days.
Maybe wipe the chain down if it's particulary dirty when you get back, then top up with the Silca drip wax and shift it across the cassette?
I think that's just cosmetic, and you can ignore it. I do. I haven't bought a cassette since I started using wax. In fact, I'm annoyed because I managed to bend the cassette on my new MTB 18 months ago in a bizarre crash which slightly affects the shifting, but it shows no signs of wear so I am struggling to justify replacing it. But it still has niggly shifting.
Agreed, which is why I personally wouldn’t bother on a commuter bike.
I just keep splashing lube on it.
It's a circular argument though. Especially on a 'nice' bike like that. You have a nice expensive drivetrain, so you want it to last as long as possible, so you use the best lube, and it needs doing more often.
My commuters a fixie so wax always seems to last longer anyway due to the chain line. I'm probably re-waxing it every month or so at the moment (150-250miles). As explained below I tend to re-wax them sooner rather than later.
Don’t do this, you’ll contaminate the wax on your chain which will eventually find its way into your wax pot.
After a particularly wet ride I remove the chain and rinse with a couple of kettles worth of boiling water, removes the wax and contaminants.
My experience is chains get dirty towards the end, just before they need re-waxing. If there's still residual wax on the outside of the chain then dirt/water won't stick to it. So when waxing a chain just because some other bike needed it and may as well throw them all in the pot then I generally don't bother cleaning them.
It's a balance, the original point of waxing the chain is it's less faff and / or* longer lasting. If you turn it into a faff then what's the point?
If the chains visibly covered in crap I put it in a shallow pan of water with a non-foaming degreaser, rinse it and blow it dry. But 9 times out of ten I just throw it back in the slow cooker.
*obviously liberally soaking it in wet lube is the least faff, lasts a long while or can be re-applied at the side of the road/trial, but wears the drivetrain. And cleaning, drying and lubing with squirt (or other dry wax) is the most faff and shortest lasting but is nice and clean at least.
I was trying to find a solution where, in less than 3 days I don’t end up with a slightly ganky chain which often ends up leaving marks on bibs, tousers, etc and might just need a little less maintenance.
I'm finding pretty positive results with Silca Synergetic, runs very clean for a wet lube. I haven't yet figured out the durability yet though, my weekend rides can be several hours in the wet and mud so I always apply beforehand, just to be safe. Last week was only 3 hours so I'm not going to reapply for this weekend, see what sort of distance I get.
I'm still running chain through an oily rag after a ride though, has become a habit and seems to protect from virtually any rust spots.
I find waxing far less faff than wet lubes; cleaning is just a quick rinse with a kettle of water then chuck it in the pot while I get showered and have something to eat.
Put it back on afterwards and good to go, no degreasers, solvents or oily hands, rags etc.
It only becomes a faff if you're doing it far more often due to running it through shitty conditions? So if I'm finding it needs doing every 3 days due to the nature of my commute, then I'd probably switch back to a wet lube and clean less often since my commuter wouldn't be my nice bike/drivetrain anyway.
It only becomes a faff if you’re doing it far more often due to running it through shitty conditions?
It became a liability for me as I couldn't trust it to last a single ride in shitty conditions, probably caused more premature wear to the chain limping home dry and squealing (the chain that is 😆 ) than I saved by waxing. Agreed probably not an issue for multiple commutes etc
But none of that is particularly practical for a bike that gets used 4 days a week in all weathers at all times of the year.
Look, do you want to be a chain waxer or not?
You have to spend almost as much time doing it as you spend telling people about it on the internet.
😉
Look, do you want to be a chain waxer or not?
You have to spend almost as much time doing it as you spend telling people about it on the internet.
🙂
My commute is not a typical commute, it's 30-40km in each direction, 3- 4 days a week, so can easily hit 300km. It means the bike can be sat, all day in a damp shelter before doing it again. So far (now 240km) the chain wax is lasting okay. the chain doesn't feel as waxy to the touch as it did when it was new out the pot, but it's not at all noisy.
I personally wouldn’t bother on a commuter bike
Commuter bike is where I would bother the most. They have to be the most durable and least maintenance and wax, when done properly, is that.
You have to spend almost as much time doing it as you spend telling people about it on the internet.
I can't even remember when I waxed mine last. Spring, probably.
My commute is not a typical commute, it’s 30-40km in each direction, 3- 4 days a week, so can easily hit 300km.
You should be telling us how to lube our chains then mate 😀
@molgrips - so no rust on your drivetrain after 6+ months? What wax are you using? That’s Putoline levels of minimal faff. Or, I suppose, how many miles since then is a better question?
Silicone spray on the cassette, post ride, would be my rust reduction method.
Don't point it towards the disc (or try to shield it from stray spray) and don't worry if a bit gets on the chain or frame, in theory it just helps grime fall off*
*In theory...
Well, at 275km this week, it’s done. It needs a rewax. I’ve done nothing to top up the wax (as I don’t yet have anything) but the chain is now starting to show a couple of rust spots. Whilst it wasn’t wet yesterday, it was massively humid and misty, so a lot of moisture. I rinsed and dried the bike last night and it’s sat inside next to the radiator, but this morning, yeah, it needs done again. I’ll keep persevering and especially once the drip wax arrives in a week, but so far it’s been more than a little underwhelming.
I’ve just melted a bag of Silca with an Endurance chip to try and help with rust on my MoltenSpeedWax drivetrain. It wasn’t as bad as that though and I had high hopes for the Silca
Be interesting to hear how you get on with that. Silca seems to be doing some interesting stuff with modular additive things and if it works as they say, it could be really good. Do you have to heat it to 125˚ C initially to incorporate the chip into the mix or does it work at normal waxing temps?
To summarise.
To extend the life of your waxed drivetrain and stop the drivetrain rusting, apply oil to your drivetrain. 🙂
I don't wax, but i'm pretty sure as someone else has pointed out that its just cosmetic isn't it?
Just leave it and ignore it, the chain rollers are still lubricated and you aren't going to rust through the chain or cassette unless you commute through the north sea.
Do you have to heat it to 125˚ C initially to incorporate the chip into the mix or does it work at normal waxing temps?
The Silca pot only heats to just above the melting point of the wax, so they recommended starting with a higher temp to melt the wax anyway. (especially as I've found putting a cold chain into the wax at 75 lowered the temp. 125 is well below a temp that will degrade the wax (and their pot is PID controlled so it's not overheating the wax to get it up to temp. your pot solution may be different
You only need to heat the Silca stuff to 125deg when using the strip chip, the endurance chip activates at 95 so you heat the pot to the temperature used to activate the additive of choice and perform the action required, then drop the temperature to 75deg get the wax to do its job.
Like Daffy says, for the Strip Chip it’s 125 but to incorporate the Endurance chip it’s 95 then drop to 75. It took a good 45 mins to melt it all initially, I’m hoping now that it’s one solid lump it will heat up quicker. I’ve got a chain ready to go on so just waiting for the other chain to need doing and then I’ll swap over and find out if it’s any good….?
Re the rust on the casette I tend to give the chain and cassette a quick spray of GT86 after riding (better than WD40 for this) just to keep cosmetic rust at bay. Without it then yes, cosmetic rust would appear. Only a very light spritz mind..
Re the discussion of different waxes, my previous supply of MoltenSpeedWax needs replacing following a house move (the slow cooker which contained it got broken but the wax was overdue for renewing anyway and if I had a spare packet somewhere I certainly can't find it).
What's the current go-to? MSW worked well for me but was quite expensive. Is there anything as good that is cheaper? I don't mind getting another lot of it as whilst expensive is lasts for a very long time so on a cost-per-ride basis is very cheap.
Anyone using the endurance chip?
Mine had the Endurance Chip in it... :-/
Hmm, jury's out then!
When I asked Silca about the endurance chip in wet muddy conditions, they said it might only make 5% difference. Given the chip Vs wax price, it didn't seem worth it.
Looking at ZFC, Silca got melt does seem to be the best in their extreme conditions block 6 test.
Yeah - mine is the hot melt, the strip chip and the endurance chip. Still marginal so far.
I’ve put 1 Endurance Chip in my pot.
I'm curious what's in those chips.
And what the trade off is. I'm guessing there's no such thing as a free (or £25!) lunch otherwise why not just make them part of the base wax?
I think the speed chip and the endurance chip are what in the wax normally, you're just altering the proportions of each.
I know Adam at ZFC was sceptical about adding Silca oil to Silca wax. It's not reversible either so you end up with a specific winter pot of wax.
It’s not reversible either so you end up with a specific winter pot of wax.
In the video they say adding a strip chip reverses the effect but again I don't know how effective it actually is
Like Daffy says, for the Strip Chip it’s 125 but to incorporate the Endurance chip it’s 95 then drop to 75. It took a good 45 mins to melt it all initially, I’m hoping now that it’s one solid lump it will heat up quicker. I’ve got a chain ready to go on so just waiting for the other chain to need doing and then I’ll swap over and find out if it’s any good….?
No, in my case after a few strip chips, it seemed to get even longer. I mailed slica and it was they who said 'turn it up to melt it and put the chain in, it won't do any harm to the wax' but then drop it to 75 before you remove it (presumably gets the right amount of wax on the chain - if it's to hot will run off/out when you take the chain out of the wax)
That’s what I’ve done today too.
Putoline'd my commuter following it's annual clean at the weekend as a bit of an experiment. Really interested to see how it goes. Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes (Muc Off/Green Oil/Peatys) and hope that the waxy black gunk will be a bit more resilient and less messy.
I'm also trying the cold weather Squirt on the MTB for winter - it seems a bit stickier than the normal stuff and has picked up a bit of crap but it's still pretty quiet. Not sure whether to switch to Putoline for the new chain/cassette I'll be putting on for summer, or stick with Squirt. Decisions, decisions.
Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes
IME Putoline can do much the same but running chain through a rag that's been sprayed with GT85 after the initial waxing (and then every now & then) cleans off the thick of the cosmetic gunk on the chain plates without affecting longevity. I do think Puto is likely ther best winter "wax"
That video got me thinking. What about adding something like Bilt Hamber Dynax-UC https://bilthamber.com/product/dynax-uc/ Which is a long term anti-corrosion wax ??
I use Bilt Hamber stuff for cleaning the car and all their stuff seems to work really well.
Hmm, interesting thought..
And what the trade off is. I’m guessing there’s no such thing as a free (or £25!) lunch otherwise why not just make them part of the base wax?
I got the impression from their promo vid that you trade off some speed / friction loss by using the endurance chip and conversely lose some wax longevity by using the speed chip. I can't imagine the average STWer is going to bothered about losing a few watts for longer intervals between waxing.
Was very fed up of the horrible black gunk that accumulated on it using oil based lubes
IME Putoline can do much the same
Sort of but not quite, in my experience. Running a commuter and re-oiling it regularly you get absolutely horrible black gunk everywhere, and it ends up on your rims and bike and front mech, everywhere, and is an absolute bastard to remove unless you've got a weekly maintenance routine - and who wants one of those?
With Putoline the excess gathers on the chain and a little on the cassette/chainrings, but it's quite hard and stays where it is. It doesn't grow and it doesn't get everywhere. And as said above you can remove it with a vigorous rub down with WD40 after it's cooled and before you fit it. If you do this, it remains clean and lubed for months.
Adding Synergetic to a hot wax is an interesting idea but expensive and irreversible!
Need to watch that video, wonder what proportions are recommended...
So, any further feedback on using the Silca Endurance Chip then?
I can't imagine the average STWer is going to bothered about losing a few watts for longer intervals between waxing.
Losing a few what's?
I probably last rode waxed my bike in September 🙄
Well, I've now bought one having shuddered at the price but hoping it really will do what it says.
I'll let you know in a few months time 😉
Edit: this will be for the next new chain as my old pot of glfwax has now got too old/contaminated to be of much use. I didn't find that did at well in wet weather but was fine for the road bike and also great for when the sandy-ish trails here would otherwise create a grinding paste on a lubed chain in any weather.
Mine's had the Endurance Chip in from the start....I'd really hate to imagine what the endurance would be like without the chip.
My feedback would be - I think it's great on the MTB and the Gravel bike, but it simply doesn't last on the commuter. Even with the occasional topup using the drip wax, I get at most 400km (in decent weather) out of it and by that point, it feels/sounds bare. At this stage it also offers NO protection from the elements. I routinely ride early morning and mid evening so it's usually colder and damp - even keeping the bike in the house and wiping the chain wen i get back, at the 350-400km point, it will be rusting by the morning. In bad weather - max 300km and that's wiping the chain and drip wax after the wet ride(s) in the evening.
So, would I go back? ...maybe on the commuter, but probably not on the others.
Oh and for those starting out - I'd get the freshly waxed chain onto the bike whilst its still a little warm - it saves 5-10km of crappy shifting and occasional chain slips on the smaller cogs.
My feedback would be - I think it's great on the MTB and the Gravel bike, but it simply doesn't last on the commuter.
Cheers for that. I'd sort of expected it to be the other way round. Are you just re-waxing more frequently on mtb/gravel or is it more that you're doing more dry miles on those compared to the commuter?
I don't mean to be negative about chain waxing, I'll keep doing it on my summer road bike, but Silca Synergetic definitely has me convinced for everything else. I thought I might finish off my bottle of Fenwick's Professional before changing lube on my summer gravel bike but after topping up a previous application then doing 140km of 'dry above/wet below' gravel, it had worn off long before the end. Synergetic has lasted me 100km of sopping wet muddy riding easily this winter, and it runs cleaner than anything but the driest wax (waaaaaay cleaner than Putoline and probably also cleaner than Squirt or Smoove, in my experience anyway), also very smooth and very quiet.
I'm guessing the more solid the lubricant, the more prone it is to physically being chipped or flaked off by solid contaminants? Seems to explain why I get much worse results off-road than on-road anyway...
Cheers for that. I'd sort of expected it to be the other way round. Are you just re-waxing more frequently on mtb/gravel or is it more that you're doing more dry miles on those compared to the commuter?
I thinks it’s just that normally, on the MTB or Gravel bike at this time of year, I’d use a wet lube and one muddy ride later and it would be Filthy. Now, with the wax, I just run the hose over it, it all drops off and the chain is wiped dry and allowed to dry indoors.
The commuter has to commute in to work in the rain/salt/crap for over an hour and then sit there, damp for 10h and then do it again. It just doesn’t seem to work well, duration wise.
My Yeti has now done ~150km on the first wax and it still looks and feels great, this despite being absolutely covered in mud and muck each and every time it’s been out for a 35km ride. I’ve not yet had to top this wax up with the drip.
I’m finding the Silca with an Endurance chip is waaay more durable than MSW and GLF waxes. It does take 20-30 mins to break in even if the chain has been dragged over a broom handle to “break” the links but shifting is smooth and quiet after that. I’m tempted to add a Speed Chip in as well to see if I get the best of both worlds - Simon Cowell Josh says you can do that so…
I’m wax curious but threads like this scare the bejesus out of me. I find it a struggle some weeks to fit in a ride let alone become a wax wizard!
This is the commuter chain after maybe 250km of mostly dry, but cold and damp miles. It did lightly rain on one 60km commute.
I’m wax curious but threads like this scare the bejesus out of me. I find it a struggle some weeks to fit in a ride let alone become a wax wizard!
To be honest, the reality is mostly straightforward. The most irksome bit is properly degreasing a new chain, but the Ceramic Speed Stuff does it really quickly and easily. Then you heat some wax in a slow cooker, immerse the chain in it using an old bent coathanger or similar, leave it in there for a bit to heat up, swish about in the molten wax, then take it out, hang it up to dry and put it back on the bike.
You can make it more complicated than that, but it doesn't really seem to offer much additional benefit tbh. It's a bit like making coffee. With decent beans and some sort of half-decent machine you can make good coffee. Or you can go down a wormhole of endless weighing shots, doing weird stuff with pre-calibrated tampers, using special water etc, in which case you may get slightly better coffee. Some people like all the messing about for its own sake, I think.
Yeah I've been using MSW (not topping it up with any drip wax either) for almost 2 years now and it's great. I checked my chain wear after a year (this is MTB btw) and it still hadn't got to the point where it needed replacing. I was amazed.
It's also so unbelievably satisfying to never have to clean all the gunk off a drivetrain ever again. I have saved so much time not having to do that, compared to popping the chain off and rewaxing it every now and then.
I'm going to try a drip wax on my xc bike this year. It's got a nearly new (100km) xtr chain on it that needs a deep clean. In the spirit of trying things before spending loads I want to avoid having to buy more products. What I do have is some bilt hamber surfex hd degreaser. It'll shift manky engine oil so think it'll be ideal for removing what's left of the factory grease. Has anyone tried it and what sort of concentration did you use. I have a small unheated ultrasonic cleaner to use as well.
Yeah I've been using MSW (not topping it up with any drip wax either) for almost 2 years now and it's great
Am I misreading? - you've not rewaxed AT ALL for 2 years?
How do you find the MSW in the wet? I got fed up with reapplying it after every wet ride - that said topping up with Silca Super Secret made a big difference but then I decided to try the Silca full wax treatment with an Endurance chip in and so far it outperforms the MSW (in terms of longevity) many times over in dry conditions - not done much wet riding with it yet but initial impressions are positive… according to Strava I’ve done 11000 km across two chains on rotation and neither are showing any signs of wear whatsoever.
After going down a zfc rabbit hole I think I'm actually going to try MSW. I assume the most basic of basic slow cooker will be fine?
Still interested to know if surfex hd is any good here.
Cheapo £15 small 1l job will do. It will take 30-45 mins to heat up but I just put the chain on a bit of coat hanger and sit it on top of the wax and then come back and swish it about after 45 mins or so then turn the cooker off and leave the chain in for 15 mins while it cools a bit then hang up above the pot to fully cool.
I've been massively underwhelmed with the Silca Super Secret, it seems to almost have a polarised reaction to the chain and sort of just drips through and on to the floor, like very expensive water off a duck's back! 🤣
Interesting to hear Silca outlasts MSW, I was initially impressed with MSW but after a couple of rides limping home with no wax left on the chain I gave up on it.
There shouldn't be enough on SSS to drip onto the floor. You need only a tiny (like a 1/4pea) sized blob on each roller and then gently roll the chain. I get...maybe 2 little drips across a 116l chain.
After going down a zfc rabbit hole I think I'm actually going to try MSW. I assume the most basic of basic slow cooker will be fine?
Yes, that's what I have, 15 quid or so. It's also handy to have some sort of thermometer so you know roughly what temperature the wax is at. We had one of those forehead ones sat around post-pandemic, so it's been repurposed for chain-waxing. I do the Silca thing of heating to around 95˚C swishing the chain around for a bit, switching off, letting the temperature drop to 75˚-ish, then removing the chain.
The MSW chain swisher is a bit of an extravagance - a bent wired coat hanger does basically the same thing - but it's a nice thing to use.
I guess the mad expensive Silca wax heater would be nice, but also mad expensive.
I've been using MSW for a couple of years now and it's great in the dry, but as above, less durable in wetter conditions ime. I've just taken the plunge with Silca wax and the Endurance Chip, too early to say as I've only done one chain, but promising so far. But as with all things Silca, not cheap.
My other tip is to avoid hollow-pin chains. I have just one of the things and the wax basically fills the pins, solidifies then comes out as you're riding wasting a surprising amount of wax. I now just poke it out with a small size allen key and stick it back in the wax pot before re-fitting the chain to the bike, but it's a pain in the butt 🙁
There shouldn't be enough on SSS to drip onto the floor. You need only a tiny (like a 1/4pea) sized blob on each roller and then gently roll the chain. I get...maybe 2 little drips across a 116l chain.
Yeah, I'm applying as small a drop as the bottle allows, but haven't tried rolling the chain, will give it a go 👍