[Closed] Career change at 40 - how do I become a chippy?

similar position - computing teacher!

Your first step has to be understanding the difference between a chippy (carpenter) and a joiner. See you in a bit...

Your first step has to be understanding the difference between a chippy (carpenter) and a joiner. See you in a bit…

STW morning snark strikes again....

If you’re Maths based, go for being a spark instead and print money 😉

STW morning snark strikes again….

It wasn't meant to be snarky; it's singularly important.

Im in the building trade and work alongside joiners but I thought a chippy battered fish and dipped his puddings.

Once you are over 55 you will wish for an easier life again

If you’re Maths based, go for being a spark instead and print money

This.

I thought a chippy battered fish and dipped his puddings.

When I saw the thread title I clicked in order to suggest he spoke to the Federation of Fish Friers. 🙁

When you say joiner are you thinking working on sites? In a factory making doors/windows? Or general house type work? What are your current skills like?

Maybe a course to get a foundation set of skills and then an apprenticeship with someone local?

The harsh reality is that at 40, you're at just the same age as all the joiners who want to quit to become maths teachers because the physical nature of the job means that it's destroying their bodies and they can no longer compete with guys 15 years younger in an industry where payment is largely determined on output rather than skill.

I'd think carefully about it and perhaps try and get a few trial shifts labouring to a joiner during the school holidays to see if you can hack it physically  before you commit to a full career change.

The harsh reality is that at 40, you’re at just the same age as all the joiners who want to quit to become maths teachers because the physical nature of the job means that it’s destroying their bodies and they can no longer compete with guys 15 years younger in an industry where payment is largely determined on output rather than skill.

I’d think carefully about it and perhaps try and get a few trial shifts labouring to a joiner during the school holidays to see if you can hack it physically  before you commit to a full career change.

^^This x10.  The grass is always greener and all that.  A friend decided to retrain as a paramedic after being a science teacher for ten years until I managed to sit him down with a couple of paramedics I used to ride with.

Management usually have a talent for taking away whatever security, autonomy and job satisfaction there is in most jobs its not just restricted to teaching.

Does sound a bad idea to move into a physical trade at 40+, electrician or plumber would be the more obvious choice (although knowing a couple of 40+ plumbers it's not exactly easy crawling around and contorting your body to fix/install stuff). Personally I'm tempted to look into specialising in smart home and whole-house WiFi installation type stuff, there's got to be a market somewhere for that...

As above, spend a couple of days on site. Even if your in good shape, eight hours of hard labour will come as a shock, and sorry, at forty it's only going to get worse.

To hell with that. I'd look at becoming an electrician instead and do what ever it takes to get into the testing and commissioning side of site work after you've served your time.

http://www.thomsontimber.co.uk/training/

Not or going to get you a new career, but could be an interesting experience. Training available in with Fife or..... Alaska.

It's not just the physical effort. I trained as a joiner when I was young. It's all well and good when you're out in the warm sunshine, but not so much when you're stood on rooftops with snow blowing sideways and your jaw frozen with cramp...

I liked the idea of joinery, but the reality of it in a real world working environment isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I know of a couple of riding buddies who have each set up kitchen installation businesses and are doing well. So rather than work as a contractor, you could sell your services direct to the vast numbers of people who cannot move house but want to re-furb. Not saying it's not a crowded marketplace but it can be done.

Broadly speaking, there are two types of joiner in the industry who are able to make good money.

I call them "Neck down" and "neck up"

Neck down joiners can make good money by sheeting out hundreds of square metres of plasterboard in a single day because they're young and strong and have just enough skills to get by. They get paid from the the neck down. The market for these guys is enormous.

Neck up joiners have the skills to produce a perfect finish and understand complex details. They have aquired a lifetime of skills, are quite often in their fifties and usually have a pencil behind one of their ears. They get paid from the neck up.  Most of them started out as neck down joiners.  Sadly, the market for these guys is quite limited due to the industry's obsession with pricework. They usually quit being joiners to become excellent  site managers .

There is also a  third category who don't make such good money. These are the RAF joiners.

Rough as F***

I know of a couple of riding buddies who have each set up kitchen installation businesses and are doing well. So rather than work as a contractor, you could sell your services direct to the vast numbers of people who cannot move house but want to re-furb. Not saying it’s not a crowded marketplace but it can be done.

^ I did spend some of my time in 'joinery' experience installing interior furniture. There are definitely different levels of physical effort and exposure to the elements. If you're serious about it, you probably want to think hard about exactly what kind of work you'd like to do, and whether there is space there for you.

Not entirely sure what it is exactly you want to do but here is my two pennies worth

I've posted on here before about how frustrating, unprofessional and generally crap a lot of tradesmen seem to be.  I wasted hours and hours of my time trying to find someone to replace my bathroom earlier this year.

If you can come round my house and do work to a good standard, return my calls, turn up when you say you will and act professionally, I will happily pay you premium for that. I currently have a whole stack of joinery/DIY type work that I do not have the time or skills to undertake myself but I am putting it off because I dread having to jump through the hoops of finding a decent trades person to do it.

I reckon if you can establish yourself as a reliable, professional and quality joiner / handyman you will be knocking at an open door.

The first couple of episodes of  http://measuringuppodcast.com/category/podcast/ would be worth a listen - both run "one man band" joinery businesses, both arrived at it from other careers.

I made this change at 33.  Went from a 12 year sales career into carpentry and its worked out very well for me but not quite as I expected.

I quit my well paid sales job and started labouring self employed on a site with a small building company.  Whilst there I started investing in tools and making it very clear I wanted to learn.  Spent the evenings doing wood work at home and teaching myself the basics with the help of some excellent you tube channels.

I spent a year at that company on £80 per day self employed and spent 4k savings on tool - was very tough

I then joined a larger company as a site chippy.  Learning curve was very steep and I had to do a lot of practice/learning at home but am now confident with all 1st and 2nd fix including roofs...  some plumbing etc.  But it was tough as the pace of experienced chippy's is very hard to keep up with when you're new.  Good tools and working in a tidy and organised way helps hugely.

I'm still at the same company now but have progressed to being the Operations Manager, leading a team of 15 trades people and as such very rarely do much tool work except at home...  It was a great move for me

The harsh reality is that at 40, you’re at just the same age as all the joiners who want to quit to become maths teachers because the physical nature of the job means that it’s destroying their bodies and they can no longer compete with guys 15 years younger in an industry where payment is largely determined on output rather than skill.

I’d think carefully about it and perhaps try and get a few trial shifts labouring to a joiner during the school holidays to see if you can hack it physically  before you commit to a full career change

This..... I've been a Joiner and furniture maker for 17 years, not as physical as site bashing but at 35 I feel it every morning.

It's not something you can jump into and expect to start making money straight away.... You'll need years to build up the skills and the fitness/specific muscle strength to compete with the young lads and veterans.... Even then pay is low unless you are quick/highly skilled/prepared to do nasty boring work.

I've mentioned before on here but if you want some experience you are welcome to come out here to Croatia and do some work at my place.... It's pretty chilled but the pay is shit and the boss is a wa***r 🙂

Here's what we do www.facebook.com/oaktreemill

Thank you for your replies. Definitely some food for thought. Maybe it's not such a good idea then! I'll re-read and reply later, when I have more time.

At forty you absolutely do not need to be on site, unless you have very specific skills, I'll assume you don't

Possibly better placed to be in the office with transferable skills.

In my vast experience you don't have to know anything about building to be a project manager or building surveyor, if you can copy the northern hemisphere into you email stream then you would be entirely suited.

My advice, train to be a QS, by the time you're done there will be so few of us about you will be able to name your price

Good luck 🙂

As a teacher a long way into a career, nothing will pay as well.

It will be less stressful and in-your-face though.

My advice, train to be a QS

This is the worst piece of advice i've ever heard.

Unfortunately,  I was stupid enough to believe it. 😉

Experience the gut-wrenching drama of human conflict through Quantity Surveying.

Preparing to do battle......

The thrill of victory!....

The agony of defeat!.....

Neck up joiners have the skills to produce a perfect finish and understand complex details. They have aquired a lifetime of skills, are quite often in their fifties and usually have a pencil behind one of their ears.

There is a market in bespoke cabinetry, but you need access to a workshop (or double garage) and a lot of skill, plus about £20ks worth of tools....

I'm 40, moved from a high paid project management roll 2 years ago to owning and running my own business (village shop).

OK it's not being a joiner, but it was the best thing I've ever done. If your unhappy in your job, try to work out which bits you love and find a new position that suits it.

Move abroad and teach.

We live overseas and teach.

Expat kids are far better, no tax, free accommodation, lots of sun.

I'd second the home joinery business - many more people buying kitchens etc online and need them fitting. You don't need many thousands of pounds of kit to do it. More essential is returning calls/turning up in my experience....

You could do all sorts of finishing joinery as well as outdoor - fencing etc, maybe branch out into your own fitted furniture as well?

Do you know the difference between a Joiner and a Carpenter?

One works with wood and the other paints cars (works better in a Scottish accent)

I'll get my coat..............

One thing worth considering if you end up on sites rather than domestic stuff, is that you'll be subjected to radio 1 / Kiss from some idiot plumber or decorators radio at all times.  A grim scenario.

many more people buying kitchens etc online and need them fitting. You don’t need many thousands of pounds of kit to do it. More essential is returning calls/turning up in my experience….

1) not as many as you think, most of the kitchen retail places sell fits at source.

2) The £20k worth of kit in my van must be over kill then

3) most essential in my book is fitting the kitchen well with plenty of experience to get you around problems caused by the designer or the house.  Although I always call back in a timely manner and ALWAYS turn up on time, must be doing something OK as booked until November at the mo.

It’s bloody hard work though, day in, day out and you’re always coming up against the “fitting kitchens is easy” brigade.

It’s bloody hard work though, day in, day out and you’re always coming up against the “fitting kitchens is easy” brigade.

Having fitted a kitchen in the past I can attest to it being a pain and not easy.

The last kitchen we had I got someone to do it - a lot quicker and a better job.

Especially having to join worktops on an 'L' that wasn't 90 degrees - maths will help you there!

Nothing to add about the career change other than I'm in a similar position - I just have no flippin' idea of what to do.

Having recently paid all manner of tradepersons whilst having our house renovated, I'd say get into granite or quartz worktop fitting.

£500 to cut to correct length, hole for sink, hole for tap, hole for hob. 2 fellas, two hours work.

Not sure how many cutting disks / drills they went through but pretty sure they made a healthy profit...

What Perchy says, You will most likely struggle with the physical nature of a trades job, most trades folks I know in their 40's are desperate to do something else....

I'd echo a lot of advice you have heard here, it can be exhausting work day in day out, try hanging fire doors or shunting a 4m oak worktop around a kitchen on your own. Don't want to put you off as being a carpenter is hands down the best job there is, I get to spend my day solving problems and making things, and playing with lots of expensive toys.

Get yourself on a course and try and find someone who you can work with who will cut you some slack, I can no longer be bothered having a sprog tagging along asking loads of dumb questions it just slows you down.

There is many different roles within carpentry and you may find kitchens/exhibition building a little more fun, first fix site work can be miserable in winter and it gets dark at 16:00 so you can hardly get anything done.

Tools are not cheap and you'll need a van, try not to get your van broken into, NEVER leave tools on site overnite, and learn to sharpen your tools.

Funnily enough my work has gone in a slightly opposite direction and now I work for a kitchen fittings company as technical support, and I get to go out and teach students and fitters how to install our products.

Try it, you may really like it, but go in with your eyes wide open, it is a physical job sometimes dirty and sawdust is very harmful.

Can you return to teaching if it goes belly up? Or maybe teaching resistant materials? you will get up to date with all your PUWER certificates that way which will help if you go into joinery at a later date.

It may be worth looking into CNC machines and programming as this looks to be the way things are going.

Good luck

Being slightly over 40, its hard to keep going , been working in wood since 16 did a 4 year apprenticeship, and still every day is a learning day, different things  and problems every day.

As a joiner you need tools,everything you need you actually have to buy yourself, even a pencil, then there is safety gear,training,how to use the tools,an understanding of wood and materials, etc etc.

But as an ex teacher, youll find you havent left all the children in the staff room or on the play ground, theyre your fellow workmates and managers,

Also at 40 cant think any company will want to take you on as anything except a labourer without any skills or tools as opposed to a tradesman grade .

Aldi are always recruiting, good wages, and you get to buy the cycling gear as it comes in the shop.

Maths teacher. Be a qs. Huge skills shortage and great pay. Might need to do a rics recognised masters to be able to sit your apc but most contractors and housebuilders dont care about that.

To give you an example. Qs. Degree and 5 years experience  gets you 45k plus a car.

Thanks again for all the replies. I don't know where else I could get this sort of insight. A lot to think about; I suppose reading some of your replies has been a bit of a reality check.

Along time ago, after uni but before I trained to be a teacher I worked for three weeks for a building firm as a quantity surveyor of sorts. It was very boring although I didn't really know what I was doing and I my heart wasn't really in it.

Off to read the other thread on how to become a hippy.

Argh! Just typed long response then the forum ate it! I'm a 40 year old maths teacher so can empathize:

To summarise my long post, what about these options:

1) if you have responbility points give them up. Less money but less stress?

2) move schools, a new environment might help?

3) leave but supply to help tide you over till you find your feet.

Good luck.

I say go for it, you don't want to look back with regret thinking "what if" when your old and decrepit.

Teachers will always be in demand so you can always go back to it if you decide joinery ism't for you.

What's to say you don't end up teaching joinery somewhere after a few years...

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Go for it!

I said it before, I don't need a joiner but I do need a very good, realiable and honest odd job type guy to do basic wood work stuff around the house. Ex Fire Fighter friend of mine (unfortunately outside of my area) hasn't set himself up like this and does really well.  Does decking, sheds, small patios, new doors, external painting, shelving etc.  He hasn't spent a fortune on tools or years of training.

Perhaps I should add that I have already handed in my notice.

I did this when I was 43, changed from 25 years 'office' based work to a trade. Not Joinery but essentially a wet trade, render and masonry. I'm now 48.

I enjoy it a lot and wish I had done it sooner, however I would never have believed I could be so tired at the end of the week. Or even on a Tuesday night when we are really busy. You make it to the weekend but have zero inclination to get out on the bike, or do anything physical. Up to the career change I would be out 3 times a week and then the weekend. It is just not possible now, every evening feels like those ones you have after an epic day out.

I actually don't think I have ridden since I was 43!

So i'd say if you do go for it, or similar, prepare yourself for a shock. And sell your bikes now, you wont ride them for the next 5 years and they'll be worthless!

Anything is possible in life. I run a bespoke kitchen company in sw France where I take on newbies (mainly expats) who are interested in learning the basics. One chap started 8 months ago and not only is he hands on machining and assembling kitchens I also trust him with the fitting! Good luck...

As a Maths teacher you have a great opportunity to pick up some tutoring work while you decide what to do, I know one teacher who quit and now does 2 hours each evening and a couple on Saturday and is making more money than she did as a teacher. That leaves a lot of time free to learn some new skills or just ride your bike

NATS are begging for people to become air traffic controllers, as are ATS who do Gatwick.  NATS pay £60k after validating (takes 2-3 years of training on shit money), rising to around £100k.

The maths-y folks on our course are finding it all very easy.  I'm 38, three kids, £350k mortgage.  I'd bet you're well placed by comparison.

https://www.nats.aero/careers/trainee-air-traffic-controllers/

Maths teacher?    Theatre and events carpenter?     Lots of rigging and engineering calculations to do.  Managing crews as well as timber construction of scenery.

There are loads of other options within the industry made up of people winging it.

NATS are begging for people to become air traffic controllers, as are ATS who do Gatwick.  NATS pay £60k after validating (takes 2-3 years of training on shit money), rising to around £100k.

The maths-y folks on our course are finding it all very easy.  I’m 38, three kids, £350k mortgage.  I’d bet you’re well placed by comparison.

https://www.nats.aero/careers/trainee-air-traffic-controllers//a >

Interesting, is it shifts once your full time? Are they looking for people for all airports or just certain ones?

Interesting, is it shifts once your full time? Are they looking for people for all airports or just certain ones?

It's not just based at airports, it's air traffic control centres, frinstance the one near me at Prestwick isn't part of the airport, it's there as all the transatlantic flights pass over, and that's what they handle. It can be shifts or days, but you'll never know at the start where you'll be based.

Lots of people at Prestwick were given relocation allowance from darn sarf.

IIRC the money is around 18k for the training period.

Shirley ATC is a bit like train driving in that it will become automated?

Shirley ATC is a bit like train driving in that it will become automated?

They'll always need a manual backup (ie people) in case the system crashes as you can't just ignore the planes in the air...

Shirley ATC is a bit like train driving in that it will become automated?

That was my concern also.  The official line at NATS is that full automation is 30-40 years away, given that it's so hard to build flawless algorithms in 4D.  But there again they would say that to the trainees.

TBH if I could kill ten years there I'd be happy.

If I was doing this I would look for something described previously as "neck up" work but for some sort of bespoke furniture or oak framework company. Things like fancy staircases, reclaimed wood furniture and fittings, fancy kitchens etc ideally something nice and sustainable. Was watching one of the house build programs about a young couple who had a wood bending (steamed wood) business, something like that.

If you have the fund immerse yourself in learning, if not a part time job like supply teaching while you learn. See if there is any local companies (eg small 1/2 person) that you could go learn from and help out.

At 40 you want something less physically demanding than being on a construction site 8 hours a day and I suspect you will want something that is also creative than putting up 100 identical houses on a modern estate.

impact driver, bubble and an iphone seems to be all you need to be a "carpenter" nowadays

oh and a CSCS card and a good line in passing the buck and talking shite

Lol

Are you actually naturally biased to practical work? Yes? go for it will be a long road and you will probably really have the hang of it by retirement age. No? Plenty like this around, just need thick skin and a bit of front and you will earn a fortune, good luck...

I work with lots of trades, good ones are hard to find, and I agree with the neck up and neck down assessment, and most of the blokes your age I know really want out.

Other than that, there is an issue which may cause you problems. Most of us would forgive crap work from a 17 year old apprentice on min wage, but you will want to earn decent money but for about 5years you just won't be that good..

It’s not just based at airports, it’s air traffic control centres, frinstance the one near me at Prestwick isn’t part of the airport, it’s there as all the transatlantic flights pass over, and that’s what they handle. It can be shifts or days, but you’ll never know at the start where you’ll be based.

Lots of people at Prestwick were given relocation allowance from darn sarf.

IIRC the money is around 18k for the training period.

So you could be based anywhere on their list of locations? Bit tricky, looks very interesting though.

Aye, I think so.

Mate of mine got right to the last part of the entry test last time, he had to control 3 aircraft, whilst someone was firing a list of numbers and letters at him.

Failed as 2 aircraft came too close, told him afterwards he should've just completely ignored the info being given, and concentrated on the task in hand.

 I run a bespoke kitchen company in sw France where I take on newbies (mainly expats) who are interested in learning the basics.

How often do you take on such expats...