[Closed] Can we raise a whole WWII Lancaster aircrew from our relatives (alive or not)?

My grandad, Robert Scott, built airfields, does that get you off the floor, so to speak...? 🙂

Flight Officer John (Jack) Hopwood, Navigator, 630 Squadron, shot down and killed over Dresden 2 weeks before end of war. Grandad.

My grandad was a Spitfire pilot (trained in South Africa, qualified too late to see any significant action).

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Wifes uncle:

F/Lt Peter Thomas
582 Squadron
Lancaster PB523
Crashed somewhere in Belgium 23/12/44
Died aged 22!!!

In our last house the next door neighbour Flt Lt Ray Smith, navigator, sadly died 3 years ago aged around 83.
Although not a relative, was an extreemly nice chap with plenty of war stories and scrapes he got into.

Dad - Flying Officer Edward Richardson - Hurricane Pilot, but did get to fly a few circuits in a Lanc if that helps.

Still with us and 89 this year (fitter than me the old goat!)

Old boy from the village, Lanc co-pilot, died 3 years ago, always front and center on Remembrance Day.

My grandad was apparently aircrew in the RAF during WW2 He never talked about what he did in the war to anybody and no one in the family even knew he was aircrew until after his death. I can only assume he experienced some pretty awful things.

All we knew was his final posting was as a driver for Monty.

Lanc co-pilot

That'll be another Flight Engineer then 😉

My uncle was a navigator in Lancasters. Not sure how many missions he did, but thankfully he survived and is still alive. My Dad was in the RAF dealing with wireless and radar but never flew. He, sadly, is no longer with us.

My grandad was a navigator in Lancasters, started his life in bomb disposal. He did a crazy amount of missions, due in part to the fact it was towards the end of the war when it was more of a turkey shoot.
Still with us at over 90, and drives his car everyday..
Legend

Father a flight sergeant, and later arial reconnaissance specialist, an 'uncle' WOP/AG in Lancasters, a tail end charlie who survived the highest mortality rate, neither survived to see this memorial, the old man never collected his medals, and neither of them really talked much about it.

What happened to the discussion about bomber command?

my Granddad was a hurricane/ spitfire mechanic.
he must have been good because he kept a Lada on the road for years.

My dad trained as a rear gunner in Wellingtons (the plane, not the footwear). Only did a few missions though, and never saw any fighters or much flak. Not many tail gunners survived .....

My grandpa was in Lancasters. Not sure what role he had though as he died when I was too young to ask these questions and I never heard him talk about it but I think it was either Navigator or Wireless Operator

My grandad was a rear gunner in lancasters right through the war.

Grandad was navigator in a Lanc, Squadron 100 I think.

Survived the war, and had some great stories.

What happened to the discussion about bomber command?

My grandad never flew anything, he was however sent to Coventry one eventful night in November 1940 to try and rescue victims of the first raid of the night, just in time for the main raid. He won the lottery that night coming out completely unscathed [b]and[/b] having an exciting story to tell for the next 55 years. Can he join the STW crew as "missed target". I honestly think he found it more exciting than frightening.

I see someone took a Vorschlaghammer to the previous thread perhap because:

"Sie haben uns ein Denkmal gebaut und jeder Vollidiot weiß dass das die Liebe versaut"

"they're built us a memorial and every complete idiot knows that that spoils love"

MY DAD ANOTHER REAR GUNNER

I am respectfully chuckling at "rear gunner in Wellingtons" 🙂

Dad was a gunner on a DEMS. Survived the Atlantic physically if not mentally 🙁

Squadron strength so far:

[b]Aircraft A - Able[/b]
Pilot:
Flight Engineer: Flight Sergeant Peter Gee (TuckerUKs Uncle)
Navigator: Flight Officer John (Jack) Hopwood (B.A.Nana’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator: (jfletch’s Grandpa?)
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: (igrf’s Uncle)

[b]
Aircraft B - Baker[/b]
Pilot:
Flight Engineer:
Navigator: (souldrummer’s Uncle)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: (Gorehound’s Grandad)

[b]Aircraft C - Charlie[/b]
Pilot:
Flight Engineer:
Navigator: (Jerome’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: (fotheringtonthomas’ Dad)

[b]Aircraft D - Dog[/b]
Pilot:
Flight Engineer:
Navigator: (Duane’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner:

Ralph Nixon
Flight Seargant (air gunner)
7 Sqdn
24th June 1944
Buried in Warhem, near Calais.

He was my grandads brother. I wish I could speak French, as the beautiful town of Warhem has only a few war graves, and I'm sure some of the older people we saw there may remember a Lancaster coming down nearby.

Crew Positions

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Image © Geoff Brown

Discussing allied bombing with Europeans can result in very mixed reactions. A guy I worked with in Royan had been bombed despite the Resistance correctly informing the British the Germans were in the sand dunes north of the town not in the town itself, he was very bitter. On the Möhnesee dam I was explaining to my son how the bomb aimers lined up the towers when a German made a quip about the RAF, I laughed and we had a brief but very amicable conversation. Talking to old people the RAF bombed may not be the best idea, Paul, but you never know.

Lady 4 doors away was at Bletchley Park. She's 90, but still keeps the code of silence.

Good work Tucker.
My grandad is super happy talking about his wartime adventures.
The poignant stuff is when he talks about how good his pilot was, who was a young new Zealander ,prob early 20 twenties. They used to drop their bombs and then do a full on dive and roll thing to get out of the action.
How many of our parents were war babies, my mum was born during the war..
The bomb disposal stuff sounds more exciting.

My wiifes grandfather,flight engineer and navigator in his time.
He had a proper handle bar moustache all his life and was a proper gentlemen,lovely man.
He also worked with Barnes Wallis on the Bouncing Bomb which earned him an MBE.

My mum was born in 1945, just after my Grandad was discharged. He had a desk job though.

Uncle, Bert Hunter, Flight Sergeant.
Another Rear Gunner, in a Lancaster,lasted for quite a while as he enlisted before the war.
Shot down/killed at Remagen near the end of the war.
My Gran hated the germans till the day she died for that, pity she never got to see the memorial, long overdue.

[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7467566078_cedda1c9b2_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7467566078_cedda1c9b2_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url] [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/shak4720/7467566078/ ]Bert[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/shak4720/ ]Shak4720[/url][/img]

Some good photos here
http://lancaster-archive.com/aircrew-photos.htm

Where we are on this topic, reminds me of a comedian from a few years back. He started his story talking with how his home town was heavily [b]bummed[/b] during the war, still makes me laugh..

My Grandad was a rear gunner in Halifaxs(10 Squadron), flying out of RAF Melbourne in Yorkshire. Again, he never really talked about it, but I have got his Flying Log Book, dog tags and medals.

Recently went to the national archives, and had a look through the official RAF logs of his sorties, comparing to what he wrote in his log book, only once in his log book does he mentions engaging enemy aircraft, shooting 2 down, but reading the official log it appears says one of them was a jet fighter, what I presume must have been a
Messerschmitt Me 262.

My Pop, F/Sgt Ernest Perry in his flying gear:
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My grandad was a flight engineer but was in fairly early so flew Wellingtons and Stirlings.

I see the position is allocated...

My great uncle 'Sergeant' Alistair Stuart McLaren (whom I was named after) flew Lancaster's and was a tail gunner. He was killed on 23rd May 1944 on a pathfinder mission over Belgium. He was 36.

Somebody (an uncle maybe?) was in the Glider Pilot Regiment that included doing a stint during Operation Market Garden (Arnhem to most people). I'll always remember my mum saying how haunted he was by seeing all those boys (parachute regiment) "taken out" as they neared the ground.

Another had a role I can't remember aboard a Lanc.

And another uncle was in the air-sea rescue service (in the Channel I believe). Hopefully he won't have to fish you out.

Loads of family members served across the military in particular throughout the 19th century. Have lots of photos, some of which give me the tingles - mainly those in Africa.

EDIT: I visited Arnhem years ago. Very humbling. I want to go back to 'appreciate/respect' what happened more.

Edukator - Member
Discussing allied bombing with Europeans can result in very mixed reactions.

That's also true with our guys (who are also Europeans these days) My dad became fully reconciled with it all, travelled to Germany even tried to learn the language this was in the sixties so still fairly avante garde for one of his generation, Uncle Ray on the other hand was of the 'only good kraut is a dead one ilk' and hated them to his dying day along with Japs, I guess surviving being a tail gunner allows him that.

Personally I've studied WW2 extensively since childhood, played in the bomb sites as a kid and have travelled and worked extensively in Germany and generally still avoid discussing anything to do with the War. The type of folk a lot of the Germans are, I still believe rightly or wrongly they would do it all again if lead in that direction, there's just something about their compliance with authority. I'm not saying it will and half the reason for the whole European deal which is being tested at the moment is to keep the lid on it all.

Now you definitely wouldn't get sufficient numbers from our current generation to fight a war like that again, not to mention getting a Lancaster Bomber past health and safety...

Great thread, very poignant. No direct family Lancaster connections: mum's dad was just too young, but my dad's dad who died a few years ago was in the navy on carriers in the far east. And when as a kid I tried to get war stories out of him, the very mention of it brought fear into his eyes. I guess he had pretty compelling reasons to change the subject...

+1 Great thread.

Lest we forget.

We still need a pilot- I wish to offer the services of my grand father, the late Peter Hackforth. He did great things. Also flew Mosquitoes I believe.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/bomber-command

I've discussed this sort of stuff with teachers in a German school, igrf, and they tend to agree; fleeing anything like uniforms or right wing attitudes. They're a good bunch, a discussion about Eurobonds showed a few chinks in their armour of political correctness though - a worrying sense of superiority for one.

[url= http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1063669/ ]Die Welle[/url] is a film well worth watching if a little troubling.

Now you definitely wouldn't get sufficient numbers from our current generation to fight a war like that again,

Not sure things would pan out like that again, to be honest.

Someone on my Mum's side worked on designing planes, think it may have been just after the war though.

Re Germans - the only cultural thing I noticed was indifference to others. Many don't seem to give much of a crap if you're ok or not, they just do their job. Much like the guard on the Virgin train in Tamworth - she wasn't German though 🙂

I have a pilot for you - "uncle"*

Flt Sgt R D Sainsbury

Pilot on Stirlings, Lancs. Finally transferred to pathfinders, flying both Lancs and Mosquitoes. I believe he also did a swap with USAAF to try the B17

Mosquito, now there's a plane.. I'm still in contact with a Mosquito pilot, old boy, Ed's his name still sharp as a razor, can't help us as he's neither a relative nor a Lanc pilot, but tells a good tale and in a plane that fast, didn't run the risk the bomber boys did.

My grandad would have been no use to your project once it got off the ground but he would have been handy to get the engines going and make sure the wings didn't fall off and such.

Yeah my grandad was a Royal Flying Core (World War 1) mechanic.

Flt Sgt R D Sainsbury

ETA Flt Lt by 1946

Great thread this. I just love the idea 😉

My grandad who sadly died peacefully in 2011 was a supply driver for Monty in the African desert. Think he was based in Egypt- although like many others he didn't talk that much about it.
I can only imagine the hell that he and his generation endured.

They are all heroes every last one of them, whatever nation they were from...

Now you definitely wouldn't get sufficient numbers from our current generation to fight a war like that again

Wars like that would be fought by machines and weapons of mass destruction today. Let's hope it never comes to that again....

This may sound a tad odd. I know a man named John Chatterton. He definatley flew the Lanc, as did/does his son Michael. There's a Biography of his life called Ploughshare & Shining Sword. It's quite a good read. The odd bit is I can't remember if i'm actually related to him or wether he's just a very old family friend. ❓

great photo's chaps, thanks for posting them

I think it was the Mosquito that my uncle worked on actually.

My Grandad was a mid-upper gunner. Angus Robb. Believe he was a Warrant Officer? Flew with the Pathfinders. Nice thread idea.

great grandad tail gunner in bomber not sure what type to young to take it all in (captured mid 1944 before d day i think?) badly wounded in the legs during an attack by a night fighter but managed to shot back and dissuede the fighter from making another pass rest of the crew patch him up as best they could then took a vote and decided to push him out over occupied france the germans captured him ened up having to take his legs off at the knee's spent the rest of the war a pow didn't talk about it very often

Squadron strength so far…

[b]Aircraft A - Able[/b]
Pilot: ‘Sergeant' Alistair Stuart McLaren (ask1974’s Great Uncle)
Flight Engineer: Flight Sergeant Peter Gee (TuckerUKs Uncle)
Navigator: Flight Officer John (Jack) Hopwood (B.A.Nana’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator: (jfletch’s Grandpa?)
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner: Warrant Officer Angus Robb (vdubber67’s Grandad)
Rear Gunner: (igrf’s Uncle)

[b]Aircraft B - Baker[/b]
Pilot: Peter Hackforth (Ambrose’s Grandfather)
Flight Engineer: (gee68’s Granfather-in-law)
Navigator: (souldrummer’s Uncle)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: (Gorehound’s Grandad)

[b]Aircraft C - Charlie[/b]
Pilot: Flt Sgt R D Sainsbury (rkk01’s ‘Uncle’)
Flight Engineer:
Navigator: (Jerome’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: (fotheringtonthomas’ Dad)

[b]Aircraft D - Dog[/b]
Pilot: John Chatterton (for the purposes of this thread definitely related in some way to freeride_frankie)
Flight Engineer:
Navigator: (Duane’s Grandad)
Wireless Operator:
Bomb Aimer/Front Gunner:
Mid-upper Gunner:
Rear Gunner: Flight Sergeant Burt Hunter (Shak47’s Uncle)

Flt Sgt Jack Best (my FIL) upper gunner. Flew in the Far East and told stories of shooting a Japanese off the wing. Cancer took him in 1995.

Per Ardua ad Astra

Flight Officer John (Jack) Hopwood, Navigator, 630 Squadron (aircraft A on this forum 8) )
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The story of what my Gran had to endure from his family is probably sadder than his death just 2 weeks before war end.
He was a Police Officer, so exempt from war service. For whatever reason unknown, he joined up. After his death, in their grief presumably, his family blamed my Gran for forcing him to join up. She never remarried, possibly to prove to them her absolute devotion, I don't know. It must have been awful at the time for her, she was pregnant with my Uncle as well. She became a very bitter person unfortunately and not a nice Gran.

Some great pics and info - new I had a pic somewhere on here, this young couple are my parents, now 88 and 86. Guess this was taken in '41 because my dad is still a Pilot Officer.

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Flt Eng George williamson, 50 Sqn, Lancasters.

Also flew in Stirlings. Only one of 7 to get out of their Lanc on the way back from Bremen.

Was with the French Resistance for nearly a year till he got back to Blighty.

George was a family friend who introduced me to classic aircraft and whom i spent many a happy hour with, scraping paint off KB976, Mk X Lancaster, at Strathallan (now in bits at Fantasy of Flight, Polk City FL).

Passed away a decade ago.

Great thread, bravo.

Mine were busy down t' pit and t' steel works.

TuckerUK, thanks for recognising Mr Chatterton! He and his son are very envolved in The Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre, where 'Just Jane' is kept and flown, at East Kirkby, Lincolnshire.

If your interested in this subject, i recommend reading the book I mentioned before. I'm not the biggest fan of the author, but a fantastic insight of the life of one particular ordinary/fantastic man of that era!!!

Vorlich- respect. The Bevin Boys finally got their medals only recently.

My grandad, Squadron Leader Dusty Miller DSO DFC. Volunteered from his home in Auckland NZ and survived 2 tours. An unsung hero like all of those above, and a great grandad too. Sorely missed.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8006/7469151916_8dd48cddb5.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8006/7469151916_8dd48cddb5.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/99023879@N00/7469151916/ ]Dusty[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/99023879@N00/ ]jim-jim-jim[/url], on Flickr
Never discussed the war years but I read some of his flying logs, scary stuff.

Personally I know that we can still find brave [s]boys[/s] men to take on similar roles nowadays. I have written too many references for lads joining the forces from school, some to staff college, some to basic training. I have the deepest respect for them all. It pains me greatly that not all of them have returned alive. How their parents cope is beyond me but the pride I feel in them must be nothing to that of their mothers and fathers.

My father in-laws uncle Andrew Wood, he was a gunner but we don't know exactly what position, he was sadly was shot down.

Maybe he could be a Mid-upper Gunner on Aircraft B as knowing Ambrose I would think that we could be connected in such a bizarre way in a past life 😉

acjim- that is an astounding photograph. The look in his eyes, the youthful, poignant expression on his face. He's but a child- dressed quite literally to kill.

Pete- I like that idea. Ta.

Another navigator:
Harry Nixon (still living - just)
Married my Dad's elder sister when her first husband Andy (my namesake) was shot down in his Spitfire. I did a reading at Aunt Marjory's funeral last year and got to read through Harry's flight logs. He was flying 3/4 sorties a week in '44. Eventually shot down over Germany returning from bombing Saarbrucken (IIRC - will be driving through there in a few weeks). Caught a mile from Switzerland, after a few days on the run. Broken as a POW. Now in a world of his own without his wife.

The saddest part of my grandads brother is, they were brought up by their grand parents as kids, his brother, who was older went off to war and died, yet I knew nothing of him until I was in my teens (33 now). My parents visited his grave in the mid '90's after my grandad had died. At that point, they were the first family members to visit the grave. I've took my wife and boys since then, but other than that he is forgotten, no photos or anecdotes have survived. .

It's amazing the loss you can feel for someone you've never known.

Forgot I had this one as well, thought it worth sharing, my Uncle, Hunter and his colleagues. Photo marked no 13 z course B Squad, not sure what that means though.

[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/7471041772_ee83c0f15b_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8023/7471041772_ee83c0f15b_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url] [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/shak4720/7471041772/ ]no 13 z course B Squad[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/shak4720/ ]Shak4720[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Taken in 1942

Seems Jack was a navigator on Lancasters not a gunner. Our "community gran" Stella next door says her husband was a pilot in Lancasters. He spent his post-wart years asking "why me, why did I survive?" I suspect thats true of a lot of the old service men and women.

My old man was a radar operator but just mist WWII. He is still alive and well and has his uniform, kit bag, radar manual etc awaiting being called back up...

Oh and my old neighbour Ron, aka peg leg, was a tail gunner in a Lancaster - hence the lack of legs.

My grandad could give an escort in a Spitfire.

After the war he became a civilian instructor, as well as the RAF, tought Argentinian pilots in the 70's apparently. Doing acrobatics while we were on the beach in Devon was always a highlight of our holiday as kids.

Brilliant thread, very humbling. Well done STW 🙂

Lest we forget.

Pilot Officer OLR Hills, grandfather, shot down and killed in his Mosquito somewhere over the North Sea 1943.

Great thread. And the Bomber Command memorial is long overdue.

Not Lancaster related, but my dad was friends with a guy who'd flown Sopwiths in WW1. Lovely old chap. God knows what he must have been through.

My Dad fixed Liberator engines for Coastal Command. (& Hudsons & Blenheims)
But not Lancs.

Grandad still alive 91 this year. Radio operator and gunner in Wellington two less engines but close. Sorties over Berlin among others. He gave me a faked German ration book that he kept, they used to chuck them out of the plane on the way to put pressure on the food supplies.

One crash landing and a broken arm, very lucky considering the survival rate.