[Closed] Apple Airtag - Bike theft tracker??

It will tell the thief it's there, so probably not.

Similar to the Tiles product but with a billion people looking for it?

Well not really.

Looks very interesting and handy for people like me who forget where the put stuff.

It will tell the thief it’s there, so probably not.

No, not unless it’s in lost mode otherwise it will just transmit to the owner.

It will tell the thief it’s there, so probably not.

Is that true?

I use FindMy all the time to locate my wife (and/or her phone). Similarly, she tracks me when I'm riding. You can see where the device is without sounding an alarm. Suspect these are similar, with the added benefit of that directional bluetooth thing that will steer you towards it. Pretty cool. I'd be interested to know if it'll work in bikes.

32mm is just a little too big to stick down a seat tube, but I probably have a big enough void in my frame around the BB area to tuck one in, bit of VHB tape would stop it rattling about. I might pick up an extra to give it a go.

No, not unless it’s in lost mode otherwise it will just transmit to the owner.

But until it's in lost mode only the owner can find it within bluetooth range. Anything further away needs lost mode and then anyone (including Android with NFC) can locate it.

Similar to Samsung SmartTag?

Similar to Samsung SmartTag?

And Tiles.... but more spendy obvs.
(quite possibly made by the same company)

It will help you find the frame, but not necessarily the forks, wheels, saddle, dropper post, gears and whatever other denominations the bike gets split into

I’ve had my eye on these being released for a while for this reason.

I’m waiting for a few details to be confirmed. Apparently there’s a few issues with privacy that they’ve had to iron out, e.g. making sure that you don’t sneak one into someone’s handbag so you can track them against their knowledge. So I think that if the tag is far away and a device picks it up, the device would need to grant approval to send the location of the tag to you. I don’t think a bike thief would do this (sadly). I think the tag also makes a noise. Again, I’m not 100% sure on all this, but it’s what I understand so far.

I’m making a lot of guesses here based on the info in the press videos. I’m hoping it could be what we’re looking for though.

Yeah - it only transmits its location by bluetooth, there's no GPS so is pretty useless if beyond bluetooth range.

That said, it will let you know if your bike has been moved out of range e.g. nicked while you are in a shop / pub. But that's what Tiles and Samsung do already, so not really a game changer and out of range is just that. You won't know if your bike went North, South, East or West, just that its not where you left it.

Have to say though that my Tiles were useless once the battery ran out as the cell wasn't replaceable, which felt like an enormous piece of environmental vandalism and blatant profiteering. At least Apple are making them last beyond the life of a cell.

It will tell the thief it’s there, so probably not.

And Tiles…. but more spendy obvs.

Yeah – it only transmits its location by bluetooth, there’s no GPS so is pretty useless if beyond bluetooth range.

But until it’s in lost mode only the owner can find it within bluetooth range. Anything further away needs lost mode and then anyone (including Android with NFC) can locate it.

No, or how would you activate lost mode? It connects to an Apple device nearby then transmits it last location to the owner.

except – every other iDevice (including the thief’s own iPhone 🤣, or any passer-by) acts as a receiver to transmit the BT signal. This is the massive advantage over Tile – there’s a HUGE existing network of repeaters already established. (That and the much greater precision when used with a newer phone)

But in practice you could receive 1 billion notifications that someone has lost their car keys. It will be a complete PITA for 99% of iphone users receiving random notifications that someone has lost stuff. So they'll just turn it off.

Also, in densely populated areas it will be pretty hard to find something with just a fleeting signal from the tag, so again it becomes annoying so people will just turn it off.

And then in less populated areas, there's only a tiny chance that anyone will be close enough to trigger a signal from a lost item, so pretty useless for most practical crime-prevention purposes.

As a way of finding lost keys down the back of the sofa, it's ok, but it's not the equivalent of a tracker for bikes (or anything taken outside really).

But in practice you could receive 1 billion notifications that someone has lost their car keys

Only if you standing next to a billion Airtags that have been activated as lost.

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/disable-an-airtag-found-moving-with-you/ explains how to disable an airtag found moving with you - this also makes it useless for a stolen bike as the thief will just disable it.

But in practice you could receive 1 billion notifications that someone has lost their car keys. It will be a complete PITA for 99% of iphone users receiving random notifications that someone has lost stuff. So they’ll just turn it off.

Also, in densely populated areas it will be pretty hard to find something with just a fleeting signal from the tag, so again it becomes annoying so people will just turn it off.

Have to say though that my Tiles were useless once the battery ran out as the cell wasn’t replaceable, which felt like an enormous piece of environmental vandalism and blatant profiteering.

The Tile Mate (£19 at most) has had a replaceable battery for a few years now. The Slim and Sticker have a 3 year battery.

unlike Tile you won’t have to fork out a subscription for the premium features!

Not looked into the premium features, but I can see where my daughters car keys are 90 miles away and can get directions straight to them without paying.

except – every other iDevice (including the thief’s own iPhone 🤣, or any passer-by) acts as a receiver to transmit the BT signal. This is the massive advantage over Tile – there’s a HUGE existing network of repeaters already established. (That and the much greater precision when used with a newer phone)

But as already said, this is only works in Lost mode and then the person who nicked your bike can also see that there's a tag and remove it.

For something that's genuinely been lost (bag, keys, etc. ) this works fine but not so much if it's been nicked because the perps are going to check for tag.

But as already said, this is only works in Lost mode

Your AirTag sends out a secure Bluetooth signal that can be detected by nearby devices in the Find My network. These devices send the location of your AirTag to iCloud — then you can go to the Find My app and see it on a map.

You didn’t read that fully or if you did you missed it doesn’t say sending alert to their phone.

Had the same idea as soon as I saw this. Will definitely get a couple at that price and try it out on the bike.

Similar to Samsung SmartTag?

And Tiles…. but more spendy obvs.

Are you trying to tell me that Apple has taken existing technology, painted it White and more expensive and rebranded it as new?

I can't believe it.

does it? That’s not what Apple says:

Obviously this might be wrong - or Apple might be "shortening the sequence"

A built-in speaker will play sounds to locate the AirTag when the item it’s attached to goes missing. If the AirTag is farther afield than under your couch cushion, for example, users can place the device into a “Lost Mode” that will leverage Apple’s Find My network across everyone’s devices.

When your belongings are far away from you, Apple says it will use the Find My network, which is approaching a billion devices, to locate it. It will detect Bluetooth signals from lost AirTags and "relay the location back to its owner, all in the background, anonymously and privately." You can also enable a "Lost Mode" to be alerted when your AirTag comes back within range or has been located by the Find My network. When a tag is in Lost Mode, people who come across it can tap it using an iPhone or an NFC-capable device, and they'll be taken to a website showing your phone number (if you chose to provide it).

It’s  quite clear.

Obviously this might be wrong – or Apple might be “shortening the sequence”

Interestingly that Tech Crunch article mentions Apple has opened up it’s “Find My” network to 3rd parties (including an e-bike manufacturer, so presumably more to come in the future!) and implies that Tile were invited to participate but declined.

 It makes sense for the tags to emit a noise IF YOU’RE NEARBY, so you can find them. It makes less sense to start beeping if the owner is miles away

Not if you're trying to actively avoid their covert use for tracking the home address of people without their knowledge. Also makes sense to attract third parties to lost items where they may well follow instructions to return things to their owner. I can't help but feel, however, that's a different circumstance to trying to covertly track something in the hands of a thief who may well be actively checking for it.

It does strike me a bit as square peg / round hole trying to use them for stolen bike retrieval. That's not the same as wanting them to fail for their intended purpose though.

Not if you’re trying to actively avoid their covert use for tracking the home address of people without their knowledge.

It doesn’t give them your home address.

It doesn’t give them your home address.

It does give you a way to find people's home if you slip it into someone's handbag and they subsequently go home while the system tells you exactly where the tag is, which is what I think they've tried fairly hard to avoid them being used for.

It does strike me a bit as square peg / round hole trying to use them for stolen bike retrieval.

Seems pretty clear from the OPs link that these aren't going to be suitable for finding stolen stuff.

there are features built in like unwanted tag detection, rotating identifiers and audible alerts from unknown tags

It does give you a way to find people’s home if you slip it into someone’s handbag and they subsequently go home while the system tells you exactly where the tag is, which is what I think they’ve tried fairly hard to avoid them being used for.

Indeed - this would be a huge privacy and PR disaster if they didn't have a way to stop that happening.

It does give you a way to find people’s home if you slip it into someone’s handbag and they subsequently go home while the system tells you exactly where the tag is, which is what I think they’ve tried fairly hard to avoid them being used for.

Well that’s one extreme way to look at it, yes.

It's not that extreme - a discrete, covert tracker that used a billion devices worldwide as relays would be open to all sorts of abuse. Which is why it makes sense that it goes beep if someone is looking for it. It makes their covert use for nefarious purposes much harder. As a bonus, it means that cleaners are much more likely to find a wallet down the back of a bus seat.

I was hoping these would be released on the last launch so I went for a tile instead as I'm great at losing keys. May still give the Apple ones ago though.

Are you trying to tell me that Apple has taken existing technology, painted it White and more expensive and rebranded it as new?

Nope. About the same price, £29 each, or a pack of four for £99. I believe the Tile and Samsung ones are either the same or slightly more. Uses a standard 2032 battery, too.
I’ll be buying one, for my car keys, ‘cos I’m forever just plonking them down somewhere then forgetting where.
Thing is, these are more than BT, they use a more accurate radio that’s built into iPhones and some Samsung phones, that gives location accuracy down to about 10cm, and in iOS 14 it works in AR mode - hold the phone up and the screen will have a pointer to show where the item is located, as well as using an audible signal if required.
Oh, and AirTags can be located by any NFC-enabled phone, which includes Android.
https://9to5mac.com/2021/04/20/lost-airtag-can-be-read-by-any-other-nfc-enabled-iphone-or-android-device/

That article states they are doing a hermes edition.
That’ll be handy to find the package when they deliver it 😉

I’ll get me coat

The Hermes luggage tag is $499 - that's a real statement if you buy that for a £25 airtag! You do get a 'free' airtag for that though!🤣

It does strike me a bit as square peg / round hole trying to use them for stolen bike retrieval.

yes, that’s fair, I’ll definitely experiment with that use given the price but otherwise will be quite happy just using them as they’re designed! 😃

And yet as part of the PR, they were going on about VanMoof building this tech into their eBikes? Hard to imagine forgetting where you left an eBike - so it's for tracking after theft, surely?

But on their website, it says anyone can disable a tag they find for privacy reasons?

and implies that Tile were invited to participate but declined

I assume the deal is to switch to Apple's solution and sell it as a Tile, rather than add the existing Tile network to Apple's Find My network. So for Tile, they'd have two separate services running with different capabilities.

I believe the Tile and Samsung ones are either the same or slightly more. Uses a standard 2032 battery, too.
I’ll be buying one, for my car keys, ‘cos I’m forever just plonking them down somewhere then forgetting where.

The Tile Pro uses a CR2032 battery and the Tile Mate uses a CR1632 battery - both user replaceable in seconds.

You can buy the Pro for £29 and the Tile Mate for £15.
They both feature a hole in the case allowing you to put it straight onto a key ring so you don’t have to then pay (at least £12 ATM) more for something to attach it to the key ring!!

It's a shame the AirTag doesn't have a phone finder feature like the Tile (press and hold the button on the Tile and your phone starts ringing)

Thing is, these are more than BT, they use a more accurate radio that’s built into iPhones and some Samsung phones, that gives location accuracy down to about 10cm, and in iOS 14 it works in AR mode

Although in reality the way nearly everyone will use them is by getting the tag to beep and then following the sound (and BT signals are affected by walls, etc as we found out with the NHS app).

It’s a shame the AirTag doesn’t have a phone finder feature like the Tile (press and hold the button on the Tile and your phone starts ringing)

You can already do this from the Find My app/web page, so prob thought it was unnecessary. Does Tile still have a website to track stuff? Can't find it. Sure it used to.

Presumably they could remove the capability for a third party to locate/disable on those they’re building into a VanMoof? After all, it’s fairly unlikely that someone’s going to slip an eBike into your handbag without you noticing.

Marques' first look / hands on:

You can already do this from the Find My app/web page, so prob thought it was unnecessary. Does Tile still have a website to track stuff? Can’t find it. Sure it used to.

Although in reality the way nearly everyone will use them is by getting the tag to beep and then following the sound

You can already do this from the Find My app/web page, so prob thought it was unnecessary.

Well.... As long as you have a laptop or PC on you (or you have an A Watch) - which definitely isn't always.

Or I suppose you could use your phone.... Oh, wait 🤦🏻‍♂️

Form over function. They wanted it to look pretty so they ignored the fact that you have to buy an "accessory" to attach it to something without pockets (handy for their bank balance also).

They could have put a button on it but that would have spoilt the looks - although if they had done I'm sure it would have been the greatest thing ever 😉

Marques’ first look / hands on:

/blockquote>

Good demo....

 

Good demo….

Yep, it was.

Although at the end when he compared it to an actual tag on your bag that has your name and phone number - I suddenly realised that the latter does exactly the same job without needing a phone to read it!
(This goes for Tiles, etc also)

So although cute, it's not exactly a game changer.
Their biggest benefit may be when they've been left somewhere that isn't public i.e. down the back of a cushion at your house!

So although cute, it’s not exactly a game changer.
Their biggest benefit may be when they’ve been left somewhere that isn’t public i.e. down the back of a cushion at your house!

update having received my AirTags on Friday and had a bit of a play about! The locator works great but seems to be blocked by walls and other things so LOS seems to be required to some extent (you'll notice in that unboxing video that was posted, the tracking starts from a reasonable distance BUT he's in a very open office/warehouse environment). So in real use it might be a case of using the beeper initially or just wandering around (it does tell you the last known position) until it picks up the UWB signal. Once it picks it up, it's really good giving you precise direction & distance.

The GF was running a 10k yesterday and since she doesn't have an iPhone I gave her (with her consent!!) one of the tags to track her progress. Worked well, I didn't have to put it into lost mode as was suggested, looks like other nearby iPhones were relaying the position, although it wasn't real time (longest interval was about 15 mins). It didn't freak out at any point, so if you COULD stash it somewhere unseen on your bike, I think it would work OK as a tracker, at least short term, which might be enough to get it back.

Disappointingly, no automation options exist yet 😭 I'll have to wait until either Apple add it via Siri Automations or some egghead updates the iCloud plugin for Home Assistant (or some other method emerges!) Hopefully just a matter of time, almost tempted to pick up a Tile now to do some automation stuff as got loads of ideas I want to try out 🤣

The locator works great but seems to be blocked by walls and other things

End of the day it's still bluetooth with the associated limitations.

almost tempted to pick up a Tile now to do some automation stuff as got loads of ideas I want to try out

If you do, go for the Tile Mate. Small, cheap and replaceable battery.

I was wondering about this very thing myself. But it seems the Airtags are a pretty useless product, other than being able to locate things which aren't really 'lost' in the first place. As a locator for stolen goods, though, it seems useless if it can be disabled and/or won't work if inside a building, basement etc.

I was wondering about this very thing myself. But it seems the Airtags are a pretty useless product, other than being able to locate things which aren’t really ‘lost’ in the first place. As a locator for stolen goods, though, it seems useless if it can be disabled and/or won’t work if inside a building, basement etc.

I’m not sure understood how they work. Let’s use the bag on the train scenario as per that video, I left my bag on train once. So, the bag has a tag on/in it, there’s 12 passengers sat nearby with phones. The Airtag will talk to their phones and the phone will report where it was last seen, I can look on phone and see it may be on the train. Then then bag gets handed in at a station, the staff have phones on them which are now able to send it’s location. Makes it easy for me to contact that station direct and arrange collection.

Makes it easy for me to contact that station direct and arrange collection.

Yes in that scenario it should work really well.

In the someone actively stealing something, it works up until they find the tag and disable it. Given most scrotes are pretty dim, I expect several will incriminate themselves with their own phones. Amazing how many local scrotes run off from the Police dropping wallet / phone etc. In one case someone ran off leaving their children behind.....

Yeah my daughter has her iPhone stolen, they took it to home and showed the police the location and a picture from Google maps of the property. They rang me as the officers arrived at the house. Rather unsurprisingly it wasn’t ringing and vanished off find my phone when they knocked on the door.

I've got a few Tiles which we use for finding keys and vice-versa phones in the house.

I've experimented with putting them in frames as security devices, but metal and carbon frames seem to be effective enough Faraday cages that it seemed pointless to me.

Someone on tinternet seems to epoxy them to a crank - would work, and *might* look like a cadence sensor/power meter I suppose, but replacement of device or battery problematic then of course.

Airtags would almost certainly be little different as presumably they use very similar, if not identical radio technology.

So I'm confused; can Airtags be disabled or not? Does someone need an iPhone to be able to do so?

So I’m confused; can Airtags be disabled or not? Does someone need an iPhone to be able to do so?

Yes they can but I'm not sure I see the issue - if you find an Airtag someone slipped into your bag to track you, there are fairly straightforward ways to disable it with extreme prejudice.

I see them as useful for things you lose - keys, work ID swipe card etc. Not so much for stuff that is stolen.

So I’m confused; can Airtags be disabled or not? Does someone need an iPhone to be able to do

Taking the battery out or hitting them with a brick will suffice.

there are fairly straightforward ways to disable it with extreme prejudice.

Pretty sure this would work very quickly.

I see them as useful for things you lose – keys, work ID swipe card etc. Not so much for stuff that is stolen.

To be fair to Apple, I don't think that they're marketing it as a anti-theft device are they?  If the scroute who steals your bike has an iPhone, as soon as he gets home, (supposing he takes the stole bike home) he'll get a notification that the bike has a tag on it, so presumably he'll look for it and destroy it.

To be fair to Apple, I don’t think that they’re marketing it as a anti-theft device are they?

No - I think you're right.

Pretty sure this would work very quickly

They're water resistant.

To be fair to Apple, I don’t think that they’re marketing it as a anti-theft device are they?

No. In fact, the stalking aspect I hadn't considered at all, but it's clear that Apple have given it some mititgation by adding specific features (like "There's an AirTag travelling with you" messaging to nearby phones) in order to make them less useful for stalking. Which also makes them less useful for tracking stolen items, unfortunately for us.

I suppose if you hide the AirTag well (E.g. deep in the downtube) it might encourage a thief to dump the bike when they find it's being tracked --> More chance of recovery.

Pretty sure this would work very quickly.

I don’t think they’re soluble.

They’re water resistant.

Damnit.... you're right (although only IP67 rating, making it dust and splash-resistant). Are they hammer-proof?

So this might still be a good idea, although reliant on the 'thief' not having an iPhone/not finding the tracker? I am finding the potential legal implications of all this quite intriguing.

This is a good review that goes into some depth on the anti-stalker/stolen items implementations:

https://uk.pcmag.com/mobile-phone-accessories/133131/apple-airtag

Apple's anti-stalking features are a little complex. If you have an iPhone with OS 14.5 or later and there is a "foreign" AirTag (one not paired with your device) traveling with you, Apple says you will get an alert at the end of the day or when you return to your home location as indicated in Apple Maps or Contacts. Otherwise, an AirTag separated from its owner will begin to beep after three days.

Couple of other useful bits of info from the review.

- They need to be within 30 feet of any iPhone in order to be on the FindMy network.

- The instructions on how to disable it basically just explain how to remove the battery

So this might still be a good idea, although reliant on the ‘thief’ not having an iPhone/not finding the tracker?

You'd still track it to his house which is probably where he's discover it. Most bike thieves are just opportunits and not the smartest bunch. If he took the battery out in his living room chances are his iPhone would have already relayed the location of the tag....

I'm not suggesting the tags are a fool proof stolen bike tracking system, but I suspect they'll work reasonable well given most scrotes will probably have stolen a top end iPhone before they steal a top end bike. Once the tag starts beeping its a bit of a give away but in theory you'd have discovered its location before that.

– They need to be within 30 feet of any iPhone in order to be on the FindMy network.

Maximum. Closer if walls are in the way.

You’d still track it to his house which is probably where he’s discover it.

You think?
You're making a few assumptions there.
Firstly that he's got an iPhone, secondly that he's never heard of airtags, thirdly the he's still got BT switched on and fourthly that he's not switched his phone's location tracking off.

Assuming all those things then maybe, yes.
But what are the chances?

I'm not sure you could rely on other people's phones either.
BT scans for devices and advertises it's presence about every 2.5 seconds (maybe longer given they want to make the coin battery last as long as possible) so there could be a period of 5+ seconds before a phone detects the airtag - at this point they would start making a connection and passing some data.... Which would take a little longer.
Presuming he's riding the bike then there's a good chance the tag may not be within range long enough for a phone to know what it is.
(If the bike has gone into the back of a van then chances are obviously slimmer).

There's a difference between {Apple} designing something to locate an item that's been lost and an item that's been stolen.
The former generally doesn't move a lot whilst the latter is actively trying to be hidden.

I left one in the van today when it went in to the shop. I can now see that it’s actually about 35 miles away, at a specialist repairer.

I had no idea that’s where it was going - but have left one discretely hidden in the van. It replaced a Tile, which has never, ever worked like that (too small a user base to be useful).

This popped up on Flipboard a short while ago, and I remembered this thread; this is the perfect subtle and usable mount for an AirTag on a bike:
https://www.cultofmac.com/743753/airtag-mount-reflector-bike-tracking/

Quite neat, reminds me I was going to buy some to play with. I was just going to glue one under my saddle....

latest from GP lama

Nice video but his methodology is a bit duff as he's using NFC for range, whereas it will be BT which will be used by 3rd party phones to detect the tracker. NFC is only engaged when you are searching for it as the owner.

NFC is only engaged when you are searching for it as the owner.

?
"Near-Field Communication (NFC) is a set of communication protocols for communication between two electronic devices over a distance of 4 cm (11⁄2") or less"

I agree that his methodology is suspect. He's started off right next to the tag and then walked away - a better test would have been to start from a distance and then walk towards the tag and see when it's picked up - or - stand still and have someone wheel or walk the bike past and then see what gets picked up.
I suspect it's somewhat less impressive than he {as a fan} is making out.

The airtag has two location modes, the one where it can direct the user to the device uses NFC (AIUI) and the one where it just knows its nearby and can make it beep uses Bluetooth.

He was using the 3D location mode which you have to manually engage. A stolen bike will be located using BT broadbasts from the tag, picked up by 3rd party phones,

Yeah it’s not NFC (the N is for “near” lol) it’s UWB. But agree that the test is a bit silly... it needs LOS so yes obviously the range will be most impressive in the middle of a park or whatever, but that’s not where you’re going to be using this function!
They are great devices though, had mine since launch and already saved me a frustrating few minutes searching on more than one occasion 🤣

Yeah it’s not NFC (the N is for “near” lol) it’s UWB.

That was it!

A much better test would have been to put the bike in a friend's house then walk past with an iPhone and see if it can pick up any of the tags from the street and see which ones it can find.