How best to manage the faffers you ride with: Leave without them when they're late? Tell them you're starting 15 mins before you really are? Chill out, everyone's different?
I used to ride with a group that had a 'wheels roll' time rather than a meeting time. That was the time the ride was starting, if you were late or faffing you had to catch up. Seems totally fair to me.
I have a couple of pals who are dreadful faffers. They tend to say - meet at 10, start ride 1030. I reply - I'll see you at 1025 ready to roll. I do whatever is needed to my bikes at the end of each ride and check them over the night before a ride.
A few years ago, I had become very very bored of waiting around for faffers, so told our group that the proposed Cadair Idris ride would set off dead on 11am regardless of who was missing. I didn't get my timings quite right on the drive up, and then genuinely got stuck behind a vintage tractor rally, arriving a prompt 40 minutes late. Thankfully, the boys took it in good humour.
Roadie clubs have it right, "ride departs at 9am", and it does. No one is upset by this because there's no expectation that everyone else will be happy to stand around waiting for you to do what they were organized enough to do 15 minutes ago.
And from the article; 29 and 37. You do have time, you're not carrying too much, it is better for your local environment, society and the planet, you will get fitter.
Ah you want to read the old Rules of Faff...
https://off.road.cc/content/feature/the-rules-of-faff-a-mountain-bikers-guide-839
As a reformed faffer, I'm now always ready to ride within a few minutes of arrival.
How best to manage the faffers you ride with:
Merciless mockery until they learn better. Never did me any harm.
Having a "wheels rolling" time might work for weekly riding groups, but it's a bit anal for when you're just meeting your pals for a ride and catch-up.
The view from the other side of the fence is don’t go riding with people who get mardy about a bit of faff 😉
I actually think the faffers and those who are late are a bit rude and clearly don't value my (or indeed their) time.
Like many on here, I'm pretty time poor so if the ride is meant to start at 10am I want to be riding at 10am. If I've got 2 hours spare from 10am I want to be using every minute of that for the ride. If you're going to faff, do it in your own time.
I also, somewhat controversially, apply this to coffee stops as well. Put the coffee stop at the end of the ride and those short of time can skip it without impacting on riding time. Coffee stops in the middle of a ride are wasting valuable riding time.
if you don't know who the faffer is, its you...
Yeah, I tend to allow for faffage in all plans and just remember that we do this because we enjoy it and then I try not to be too much of a bear-with-a-sore-head about it :o)
@Bez - what if they are family though? some of mine, I tell you I could disown them...
We've started doing "ready to roll at x time" too, people can then work backwards for the journey and faffing. Obviously if you have a major issue you call somebody and more often than not people will hang back.
Especially at this time of year with the light fading and it getting cold, it has to be done.
what if they are family though?
I don’t ride with them so it’s not an issue 🙂
Come to think of it, these days I don’t generally ride with anyone at all 😂
just remember that we do this because we enjoy it
I quite agree, most of us enjoy the riding the most, hence trying to the maximum amount of it in the time allowed.
Less faff, more riding.
Faffage/lateness is directly proportional to how close a friend it is in my experience.
Trick is wheels rolling time plus not be close friends 🙂,
Also every extra person adds a certain amount of time to a ride until time limits or hunger kick in.
I actually rode solo for some time because I couldn't afford to waste a half Sunday on a 1.5 hour ride.
Social rides with lots of faffing that take ages are fine and enjoyable if that's what you're prepared for.
Not so much in bad weather.
Mountain bike group ride - start meeting at X, set off at X+15
Road bike group ride leave at X
To be fair, I do this with my solo rides! Don't always exactly know what time I'm going to get a ride in on a given day, but usually have me and the bike ready so I can be out of the door as soon as the green light is given!
Not so much in bad weather.
Thats key at this time of year, no one wants to be stood around getting cold because someone didn't do their faffing in their own time
Usually give a few minutes if I know someone is definitely coming as sometimes stuff happens, maybe keep an eye on messages.
Then roll out when everyone has finally decided where we're going, if you still haven't shown up by the time that's sorted then you're far too late. If you hang around for the truly tardy then they'll never learn.
Been on both sides of this, only myself to blame.
Mountain bike group ride – start meeting at X, set off at X+15
Non faffers turn up at x+ 14? thats what I would do. I am not going to stand around for 15 minutes while others faff
I actually think the faffers and those who are late are a bit rude and clearly don’t value my (or indeed their) time.
This +1
The faffer only sees it as being 6 minutes late. But in a group of 10 that's collectively wasted an hour of their time.
But in a group of 10 that’s collectively wasted an hour of their time.
What’s the going hourly rate these days for acting as a ride companion? 🙂
But in a group of 10 that’s collectively wasted an hour of their time.
That's a weird way to think about time. If I go for a 2 hr ride with 10 friends can we each claim the calorie deficit for 22hrs exercise? 😀
Faffage/lateness is directly proportional to how close a friend it is in my experience
Most definitely this.
I'm going to name and shame and mention the fact that when it comes to my usual riding mate I always build in what I refer to as 'The Vortex of Swinney'.
The Vortex is a time portal that exists, like a black hole, to suck in about half an hour, pre-ride, every ride, for fitting brake pads, changing tyres, trying to find shoes, filling camelbacks, charging lights, feeding the dog and all manner of other faffage. 😀
I cunningly live near the best riding compared to my riding mates.
Means I can drink coffee or whatever whilst i wait for them to faff etc.
I was intentionally 30min late for one mate as he was an hour of faff and lateness late last ride.
He was the car ahead of me into the car park.
He is perfectly competent and runs a team that maintain. . £££££ machines for a living.
I just don't get why he can't be on time for social stuff.
I lived with another mate at uni. I used to tell him we had to be somewhere an hour before we actually had to arrive. I'm not sure he ever noticed. We were still regularly late!
He who lives closest shall arrive latest
The Vortex is a time portal that exists, like a black hole, to suck in about half an hour, pre-ride, every ride, for fitting brake pads, changing tyres, trying to find shoes, filling camelbacks, charging lights, feeding the dog and all manner of other faffage.
OK - what is the *worst* faffage example you have?
I did have someone turn up and set about changing tyres as we were due to leave....
Aye. All well and good until one of the anal on time types has a puncture or other mechanical and needs help/spares/tools to repair it. He/she's not that keen on rolling then are they?
BTW, I'm not a faffer. I am that anal clock watcher but tone it down due to the above as you never know when 'it' will strike...
Faffing is a bit rude IMHO - do it on your own time, not mine.
I've known some world class faffers over the yrs. One bloke kept me waiting for 90 mins, that was was the last time I rode with him & pretty much spoke to him!
Confession time, I've never knowingly turned up for anything on time.
"The view from the other side of the fence is don’t go riding with people who get mardy about a bit of faff 😉"
Yeah, well sort of, I've got a few mates who measure their time out by the minute and are always in a rush to get home to "keep the Mrs happy" or whatever, I'm not completely intolerant to that, I've got a family myself, but if you're going to turn up, hassle everyone to get going and then spend all ride tutting or saying "so.. we ready lads" all the time, I'd rather not. Group rides are a social event for me, if you're against the clock, go on your own.
Number 1 for me is: don't meet at someone's house, or car park if they will be driving. Meet somewhere they must ride to - 1km up the road from the car park, or a convenient landmark midway between where you all live.. That way they must finish faffing before they set off to ride to meeting point for agreed time.
Yep, car starts are often a faffalance!
Roadie clubs have it right, “ride departs at 9am”, and it does.
Not the club I roll with! (although TBF they might have changed, not been on a roadie club run for a good long while).
They're was always at least 10 mins of chatting, deciding on leaders, route, club announcements etc. so people started getting there 10 mins late so they didn't get cold hanging about. Then the club announcements, chatting, route decisions were delayed until all the expected attendees arrived. 😠 Absolutely did my crust in and is one of the reasons I stopped going!
If you hate phaff don't move to Spain. I lived there for a while, we all met at 1000 for an MTB ride every saturday morning, which was followed by coffees, chat, bike sourcing and in one memorable occasion we all helped to fix a window in the cafe. Know your group!
Meet somewhere they must ride to
We always do this with our regular Tuesday night ride, we're normally riding within 5 minutes of the agreed time.
OK – what is the *worst* faffage example you have?
I did have someone turn up and set about changing tyres as we were due to leave….
@matt_outandabout - exactly that. I went round to pick him up in order to set off on a 30-40 min drive to meet the rest of the lads to find no sign of him but his bike upside down in the back garden with the wheels off sporting no tyres
As he emerged from the kitchen with a brew, like he had all the time in the world, he was greeted with quite a substantial amount of swearing.
I absolutely hate being late! I'm always organised so I'll be at a meeting place well before an arranged time, so I've got a cushion of time and barring a disaster I won't be late.
I believe in the what Alan Shearer refers to as Bobby Robsons saying about turning up on time for training:
To be early is to be on time, to be on time is to be late and to be late is totally unacceptable
I'm terrible for being prompt. Try as I might, I'm just virtually never late for anything barring an act of Dog or something.
If someone says meet at half nine, I'll be there by at least 9.15. I don't obsess about time in the slightest, but somehow,I just am able to be on time and be ready without effort or thinking about it.
I used to get picked up for riding by a mate with a van. He'd say a time, and instead of him ever having to knock the door, I'd be at the end of the road, ready with bike and kit so he didn't even have to turn off the main drag.
Now I'm the one with the van and always pick up a mate. We've been doing about the same every weekend for over ten years, and I still have to knock, he's still not ready, bike not out, bag not out.
I usually just let it slide but have to admit it irks me sometimes, especially as I'm doing all the driving, and getting the bike wash kit in as well.
I just don't get it.
I don't think folks are intentionally rude or anything, but somehow their brains work in a way that seemingly makes it impossible for them to learn that you don't enjoy waiting for them week in, week out.
Not foolproof - our usual wednesday night ride I can ride to in 4 minutes on the flat. A few weeks back I got there and realise my bike wouldnt shift correctly (mech was knackered) as the gear it had finished the previous ride and the gear to ride on the road were the same. Chain had been lubed and I hadn't noticed.
After a few minutes of aggressively trying to get the spring to release I went home.
And last week I was just about ready to go, had bike ready and one shoe on, and someone came to the door. Sorry guys, 5 mins in the brutal cold waiting for me.
I actually think the faffers and those who are late are a bit rude and clearly don’t value my (or indeed their) time.
+1
And applies to life in general. I am always early, for anything - and if I'm not going to be, somebody there will already know.
I use to have a Boss that was always late, so I adopted a 5 mins rule - if he hadn't turned up by 5 past the meet time, I was gone. I've used this rule for +20 years now at work.
I also worked in Germany and they have the 15 mins rule - but I haven't the patience to wait 15 mins 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_quarter_(class_timing)
They’re was always at least 10 mins of chatting, deciding on leaders, route, club announcements etc
Except the only time you're ever late...
Some people just can't get anywhere on time.
Used to ride with some people who were always late .. race meetings they'd be arguing why they should be allowed late registration. (and a couple of places they had a 30 min drive vs 2 1/2 hours for us)
Most people I think a wheels rolling tends to work better and especially as someone else said you have to ride to the meeting point.
I use to have a Boss that was always late, so I adopted a 5 mins rule – if he hadn’t turned up by 5 past the meet time, I was gone. I’ve used this rule for +20 years now at work.
I also worked in Germany and they have the 15 mins rule – but I haven’t the patience to wait 15 mins 🙂
When I worked for Maersk in Denmark all meetings started on time. 15 minutes late would be a disciplinary matter and quite possibly dismissal. 5 minutes would be very badly taken.
If you had to fly/travel they would pay a day extra for you to be at a meeting on time by arriving the day before - no questions.
Tough love is often the best cure. A particular couple spring to mind. Always late for the meeting time so we switched to a wheels rolling time. They were still late for this. A couple of times, we'd already set off by the time they got there. They got better, but still weren't ready on time.
What finally cured it, was them watching us ride away from the car park while they were still unloading.
The Vortex is a time portal that exists, like a black hole, to suck in about half an hour, pre-ride, every ride, for fitting brake pads, changing tyres, trying to find shoes, filling camelbacks, charging lights, feeding the dog and all manner of other faffage. 😀
you know Paul too?
Try having kids! (For those with kids.. you KNOW! )
ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of time keeping... yet adamant YOU'RE the one in the wrong for stressing!
Tbh... I'm happier stressing about leaving EARLY, then stressing about being late.
I hate being late for anything..
DrP
Kids is the reason that our Monday Night Pub Rides start at what some people regard as the weird time of 8.15.
For ‘weird’ read ‘realistic’
Being late can be a bit of a wind up.
Not MTB but we had it with an ex colleague. If a colleague is kind enough to pick me up and drive into somewhere like London, I'll be waiting watching out of the window or outside if it's warm. If meeting at the yard I'll be early.
The ex colleague would need an 'I'm here' text or be late. If you wait, you could guarantee they'd turn up as you drive away. 15mins might mean a massive delay as traffic builds, not being able to get parked and eventually late home.
More MTB related I used to ride with someone who would often be late, not have air in his tyres, shock, whatever but would always want to do the shorter ride due to having to get back by a certain time.
Being late or faffage from time to time is being human, doing it all the time is being an arse.
I reckon it's better to be slightly late and ready to go than be on time and then start faffing, coz no-one wants to stand around watching other people faff. To this end what I usually do is pull over somewhere 5 mins away from the meeting point to get changed and faff with camelbak. Then turn up 5 minutes late, jump out and ready to go.
Being late or faffage from time to time is being human, doing it all the time is being an arse.
Absolutely.
Having a mechanical or a puncture can happen to anyone. Turning up with a bike you know isn't working without being there early enough to have a chance of fixing it in time to set off at the agreed time is ignorant.
Same as a couple of prev posters - I'm pretty much always early if I'm travelling somewhere on my own. If the other half is involved then we are occasionally a bit late. I hate that and it causes arguments.
However, we're talking a few minutes and I'm always apologetic.
One group ride we kept getting text updates from a couple that were joining us that they were "a bit late", then "stuck behind a tractor", then "nearly there". Nearly an hour later they arrived.
We were freezing. I was thoroughly pissed off. One of them started to chat and faff, he got told that we were setting off in 2 mins and he needed to sort his shit out. He couldn't understand what the issue was.
I dont invite him on rides any more and only invite his partner on the understanding that I no longer wait for people that aren't at least present by the time we are supposed to set off. It's worked so far.
If you can't be arsed to make the effort to get somewhere when everyone else is getting there, just say so from the beginning and there's no drama. We'll go on our ride and you can go on yours.
Ha! My freehub died on the way to our ride this evening. Ended up being 15mins late after running back home and swapping bikes, didn't matter though as someone else had child issues and was also 15mins late. All kept up to date within our WhatsApp group though so nobody was hanging about in the cold.
How about on trail faffing? People who have to play with their layers, or their suspension pressures, or their tyre pressures (and they always need a gauge to do this, not a quick squeeze), or their layers again, or adjust their helmet straps, or dig out a snack, or adjust a seat post or brake lever position (probably with a tool that requires assembly and digging out of a pack)… at every gate, or top of climb, or turning… At least with car park faff you can just sit in your car and wait for them to get it over with, but on the trail you’re left hopping from one foot to another trying not to scream in frustration!
Just as bad if not worse. Just have your bike sorted and ready to go. OK I am a bit obsessive ( who me? could you believe it?) with bike maintenance but either you are ready to ride or not. sort yer bike out beforehand
You can have faffing at the end of the ride too. I once had a puncture about 10 mins ride 40 mins walk from where we had left the cars. The guy whose car I had gone in said he'd go and fetch the car to pick me up rather than mess about fixing the flat. He was so long faffing about changing and sorting his bike that all the others had left and I had walked back to the car park.
Jerry.
Jerry was never late for a ride.
However, at the top of every hill, Jerry would let air out of his tyres for the descent.
At the bottom of every hill, Jerry would then top up his tyre pressure for the climbs.
There was a lot of faff during a ride with Jerry.
Kids is the reason that our Monday Night Pub Rides start at what some people regard as the weird time of 8.15.
Did start at 8.15. Bloody kids growing up and gaining some independence means they start a bit early for me nowadays. The arseholes. 😁
I had someone turn up to a ride late with no chain and a box fresh new one, and then expected someone else to fit it. She was late because she'd been to the lbs on the way and then wasted time wondering/arguing why they couldn't drop everything to fit it there and then.
It's not the worst job, but while it was being sorted she insisted on watching and learning instead of getting kitted out. More than doubling the delay.
Then to cap it all, the chain jumped like **** all ride, she sort of blamed the guy who'd fitted it, was firmly told that cassette and chain often wear together, and then she said that the lbs had said the same but she'd thought they were ripping her off.
I did laugh heartily on boxing day this year when the biggest anti-Faffer in our group arrived after the 6am roll-off slot and announced he'd forgotten to even bring a water bottle for a 100km ride. I had to loan a bag and now have the opportunity to faff as much as I like for at least the next year.
and are always in a rush to get home to “keep the Mrs happy”
That might be a euphemism, hence the rush to get back 😎
Sadly rarely the case in my house, I just need to remember the famous war cry "Remember lads, if you get home early, they never remember, but if you get home late they'll never forget!".
Sadly for this reason coffee stops are a rare treat these days ☹️
I once took my roadie friend on his first mtb ride round a muddy trail centre, he had to keep stopping to take pictures of his clagged up bike to send to his Dad!
There’s a clue in the title - Organised Ride.
I’m in the ride starts at 10.00 type. Get there when you want but, we leave at 10.00.
Allowing extra for unforeseen circumstances is all well and good but as groups get bigger, there is a strong chance at least one will get held up through no fault of their own.
This leads to others getting annoyed and the group falls apart. Ride starts at 10 - one day at least I’ll be the one playing catch up, but for most of the time it’ll be great.
I prefer my own company 😂
can’t be arsed to make the effort to get somewhere when everyone else is getting there
This sums it up for me.
Have a mate who, without fail, will always arrive with his bike needing some attention, adjusting or putting together.
He travels down from Berlin to Munich for a week in the alps or even Finale and its inevitable that at least half a day of the holiday is spent fixing his ride.
It's not like he's even got a full time job to worry about.
Does my head in.
I don't mind a little bit of lateness or faffing in the carpark every so often, but I want to maximise my time on the trail in the time I have available between work, family and domestic commitments.
I despise avoidable faffing on a ride though.
Whats that? Your gears don't index right? Should have looked at it at home. Brake pads need changing. Ditto. Surely you don't need to adjust your suspension pressure for every single descent? The list is almost endless.
You're stealing my ride time.
Pretty much, I dont ride in groups bigger than about 4 or 5 because it seems to be that beyond that number, some kind of faff critical mass is reached and you can be sure that something is going to happen.
Serial faffing 🙄….
Rider A stops for a faff, everyone waits and chats. Ready to roll and suddenly Rider B realises they need a faff - “won’t be a minute”. Ready to roll again and Rider C needs a pee!
Faffing should be a parallel activity!
Some rides, all I seem to say is “shall we go?”
I’m caught between 2 extremes.
My regular riding buddy is pathologically late. I have come to accept this, and plan accordingly, started factoring in 20 mins of lateness into plans.
MrsTH, also a regular riding partner, is mortally fearful of being late. And builds 10 minutes of leeway into every part of a journey (travel time, fuel stop, any other stops etc).
I’ve spent hours waiting to start bike rides…
My riding group just has a tacit agreement that if we say we'll meet at 7pm, we really mean 7.10. They're always 'late', I'm always 'late' but we all arrive at the same time (7.10) and there's never any faff. I'm never quite sure how many of them are aware of this protocol, and I don't rock the boat by asking.
Faffing is part of group riding. I can fondly remember many trailside repairs and incidents over the years. If I want to just ride non stop I'll go out on my own. When hanging out with good mates I'd probably be just as happy to spend the time faffing, tinkering and having a laugh as going for the ride.
Depends on the level of faff. I've had pals turn up with barely a rolling frameset to build into a bike for the ride albeit, it was a weekend away but still they had to build it on the Saturday morning while the rest of us were ready to go. Slightly taking the michael.
I'm completely of the 'it doesn't matter' type guy.
I have a riding mate who in the last 20 years has only turned up on time once... but 99% of our rides start at my house, so i'm sitting at home drinking coffee waiting instead of being standing round a car-park... so i really don't mind.
I don't 'do' the big groups... if i have a group of people riding, they've got kids too, which instantly brings instant faff time as kids are, well, kids.
I'm a lot less time poor than most though on here it seems.
...they had to build it on the Saturday morning while the rest of us were ready to go. Slightly taking the michael.
I'd have just suggested they catch us up at lunch time.
Our club rides are quite social and include a fair bit of stop and go. I'm actually quite grateful for it as it allows me to catch my breath.
But turning up any trying to undertake bike maintenance at the start of the ride is unforgivable.
Another bugbear: arriving at friend's house, ready to go, and they insist on offering you a coffee. You feel slightly rude refusing, "No thanks, I had one before I left...cos we were due to be riding at 10...". Then have to watch them make the world's slowest coffee for themselves, and drink it, before getting their gear sorted. Probably obvious I frequently choose to ride alone!
The bloke who always faffed the most on our rides surpassed even himself when he fitted a cartridge BB in the car park before a ride once (BITD)..............
Faffing is part of group riding. I can fondly remember many trailside repairs and incidents
This illustrates the fact that some people don't understand what faffing is. Neither of those is faffing ( although a carside repair probably would be)
Things breaking whilst riding ( assuming a modicum of maintenance has been kept up) is not faffing.
An incident is not faffing.
( though they could turn into faffing)
arriving at friend’s house, ready to go, and they insist on offering you a coffee. You feel slightly rude refusing, “No thanks, I had one before I left…cos we were due to be riding at 10…”. Then have to watch them make the world’s slowest coffee for themselves, and drink it, before getting their gear sorted
This however is faffing, and is completely unforgivable.
I like to think that I faff in a considerate way because if I have something that I know that I'll have to tinker with before we set off I'll get there very early so I can be done by the agreed departure time.
My mate is always late for everything, kids play a small part now, but he was useless before he had them also.
It isn’t unusual to turn up to his at the agreed time for a ride to find him mowing the lawn or washing the car because he had a ‘spare 10 mins’. Today was his finest hour, I was supposed to meet him 11ish for a ride in the sun, he messaged at 11 to say he was in Banbury (we live in Loughborough) and was finally ready to go at 4:45! I’d been and done by then, not waiting anymore.
If you think bikes invoke faff in people you should spend time with climbers. Especially trad climbers eyeing up a route they might find a little spicy.
It's fine to ride with faffers if you have all day and aren't fussed about making any particular target. But when you have a full time job, a family and time is limited and precious then I've no time to wait for faffers.
These days I mostly ride either early in the morning at the weekends or in the evenings mid week. Probably why I mostly ride solo.😁
